The NBA basketball thread 2013-2014

[SilverBullets]

I think lebron 100% is headed back to Cleveland. If he weren't, Bosh and Wade's speculation would be a lot more orchestrated. The cavs just dumped a terrible contract and a future 1st rd pick solely to free up money. Do you really think they would deal a first rd pick to off load one contract without having solid knowledge lebron is heading there? I wouldn't be shocked at all to also see them trade wiggins to bring in another big time player (I.e. Love). Personally I can't stand LeBron and I hate all things Cleveland, but I think the trade today was the first domino to fall. Lebron, Ray Allen and potentially another solid name guy will land in Cleveland when the dust settles.

[scratchswinger]

LeBron, Love, Kyrie, Tristan is one hell of a core.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1404928069' post='9667493']
LeBron, Love, Kyrie, Tristan is one hell of a core.
[/quote]

A million times better than the team he took to the finals in Cleveland.

[tatertot]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404928599' post='9667559']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1404928069' post='9667493']
LeBron, Love, Kyrie, Tristan is one hell of a core.
[/quote]

A million times better than the team he took to the finals in Cleveland.
[/quote]

Not to mention Wiggins on the wing, Verrajo as a back up big, and Wiggins a second team scoring option.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='tatertot' timestamp='1404933210' post='9668069']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404928599' post='9667559']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1404928069' post='9667493']
LeBron, Love, Kyrie, Tristan is one hell of a core.
[/quote]

A million times better than the team he took to the finals in Cleveland.
[/quote]

Not to mention Wiggins on the wing, Verrajo as a back up big, and Wiggins a second team scoring option.
[/quote]

I doubt they can get love without giving up Wiggins.

[scratchswinger]

It sounds like Melo is going back to NYC.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/carmelo-return-knicks-win-new-york-article-1.1860680

[ClarkGrswld4]

[quote name='ReganJS' timestamp='1404890947' post='9664777']
Hey guys, don't post too much however I just wanted to share my opinion.

Carmelo staying with the Knicks makes no sense financially to me. He's already opted out of his contract so why stay now? He could of finished his contract, made an extra 20-30 million and resigned a max deal with the Knicks. He isn't going to win a ring on the Knicks either. To me, he just lost 20-30 million dollars as this will be the last max deal he signs for the rest of his career now when he could of signed it next year. My opinion now is that he's leaving New York. Not many NBA stars drop twenty million dollars for absolutely no reason at all. I mean he could of signed a max contract NEXT year worth something like 130 million dollars.

Everything Carmelo has said hasn't matched up with his actions. He wants to win a ring and be on a contending team? That sure isn't the Lakers or Knicks! Obviously he isn't going to the Heat as the Knicks vs Heat have bad blood. Why isn't he going to Houston though? Honestly I think he's going to the Lakers.

Finally here is how I view the Heat's situation. Bosh was offered a max contract in Houston. They are a VERY good team already and adding Bosh would make them better. Bosh will likely leave to take that max contract while still playing for a championship contending team while making the most money he can. Dwayne Wade will retire in Miami, no questions asked. He's going to take a pay cut and opted out of his contract because he believes Lebron will stay and play in Miami. Lebron isn't going to Cleveland. Unfortunately he has bad blood with their owner. He also prefers Pat Riley, Spolestra and the Arison's. In conclusion I believe Lebron will take a max contract in Miami, Wade will take a pay cut, Bosh will go to Houston and Miami will pick up two other role players with the money Bosh was being paid.
[/quote]

This would be a lesser Heat team than LBJ had last year though. I don't think he'll settle for that.

[MtlJeff]

it's hard to separate the real rumors from the totally fabricated ones. I'm not sold that Lebron will go back to Cleveland, or if he does that they have a deal in place to trade Wiggins for Love. I suppose if Lebron forces you to do it you have to do it....but does Lebron really want to play for Dan Gilbert again? Imagine your boss took a dump on you the way Gilbert did when Lebron left? Would you go back so he can make money off you? If Lebron goes back more power to him...its probably the only place he can go and not get totally ripped, so maybe he goes there

I would think you could get Love for Anthony Bennett and Dion Waiters plus a first rounder if the Wolves really want to trade him. That's a recent #1 and #4 pick. People are actually fairly high on Anthony Bennett still. Word is he's in great shape and projects as a nice stretch 4. I would rather have that package then Klay Thompson who you will have to give the max to next year. But this is all still a long shot to me....i'll have to see it to believe it. But as good as Love is i don't trade Wiggins for him unless Lebron forces your hand. Wiggins is not some schmuck, he could be the best wing defender in the NBA in 2-3 years

The other thing is i'm becoming more and more convinced if Carmelo stays in NY or Aldridge re-ups soon...Minnesota might really think they can change Love's mind and it's not crazy for them to think that. If they make the playoffs next year and can offer Love more money....well, some players like getting max money

[MtlJeff]

Dallas made a very interesting move today. Offering Chandler Parsons a short term max deal puts Houston in a precarious spot. They have 72 hours to match it or lose him to Dallas. If Bosh doesn't decide in the next 3 days that really puts pressure on Houston to either match an overpay offer and risk never being better then "really good" due to cap space. Or to go for broke with Bosh and maybe end up with no one.

Very interesting....Dallas is overpaying, but when you have Dirk who will take less money you can do stuff like that.

Houston may be getting too cute for their own good. It appears the decision to pass on the Parsons option has backfired. I'm sure they figured no one would give him a max offer this season. If they had taken the team option they'd have him locked up another year at 2M and still would be able to sign Bosh, and then decide what to do with Parsons next year. Now if they decide to keep him it's no Bosh, and he's overpaid

[tatertot]

Cleveland freed up more money tonight. Everything is pointing towards LeBron taking his talents back to the city with the burning river.

[mnplayer]

Jeff, I doubt Waiters and Bennett does it for Love. Maybe if Kahn was still here, but not with Flip. I think if that was the deal on the table we'd probably wait it out until the trade deadline and deal him then if we aren't going to make the playoffs. I think Cleveland would be okay letting Wiggins go because Love is a sure thin right now. Lebron doesn't really have the time to wait 2-3 for Wiggins to start to reach his potential. That big three is better than what he's had in Miami.

[RJRJRJ]

Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.

[mnplayer]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Cleveland wouldn't give up Wiggins(or even Bennet and Waiters) unless Love signs a long term deal. That's why any Love to Cleveland trade won't happen unless Lebron is in Cleveland, thus Love would sign a long term deal.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1404954920' post='9669975']
but does Lebron really want to play for Dan Gilbert again? Imagine your boss took a dump on you the way Gilbert did when Lebron left? Would you go back so he can make money off you? If Lebron goes back more power to him...its probably the only place he can go and not get totally ripped, so maybe he goes there

[/quote]

That is exactly what I have been saying... Unless DG comes out and makes a very public apology, as public as he was with the letter, than I just don't see how a man like LBJ could go back. That letter had a very "plantation" feel to it and LBJ has been very vocal and passionate about the Sterling thing. In no way am I implying that DG is racist, I just remember that being a topic after the letter came out. In either case I am sure he will do what is best for his family and that has to be respected.

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404969741' post='9671255']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Cleveland wouldn't give up Wiggins(or even Bennet and Waiters) unless Love signs a long term deal. That's why any Love to Cleveland trade won't happen unless Lebron is in Cleveland, thus Love would sign a long term deal.
[/quote]

Well yes, but Love would lose money by signing a deal right now and not letting his current contract expire.

[baseballfrk8998]

[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Unless LBJ is in Cleveland. No risk there if they somehow manage to get LBJ

http://msn.foxsports.com/ohio/story/report-kevin-love-would-sign-with-cavs-long-term-if-lebron-returns-062614

[tatertot]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1404970097' post='9671273']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1404954920' post='9669975']
but does Lebron really want to play for Dan Gilbert again? Imagine your boss took a dump on you the way Gilbert did when Lebron left? Would you go back so he can make money off you? If Lebron goes back more power to him...its probably the only place he can go and not get totally ripped, so maybe he goes there

[/quote]

That is exactly what I have been saying... Unless DG comes out and makes a very public apology, as public as he was with the letter, than I just don't see how a man like LBJ could go back. That letter had a very "plantation" feel to it and LBJ has been very vocal and passionate about the Sterling thing. In no way am I implying that DG is racist, I just remember that being a topic after the letter came out. In either case I am sure he will do what is best for his family and that has to be respected.
[/quote]

Never saw the "plantation" feel to the letter ... sounded more like a jilted lover to me.

I can't believe he kept it up on the website for 4 years, however. Yes, a kneejerk reaction to someone breaking what you thought was a sacred bond. But 4 years?

[tocino]

[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404969741' post='9671255']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Cleveland wouldn't give up Wiggins(or even Bennet and Waiters) unless Love signs a long term deal. That's why any Love to Cleveland trade won't happen unless Lebron is in Cleveland, thus Love would sign a long term deal.
[/quote]

I don't know if Cleveland can win a championship with a Big 3 of Lebron, Love, and Irving. There's not enough defense there to get passed Indiana or Chicago based off the cavs projected starters and what ever's left of their bench after a cavs/t-wolves trade.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1404970097' post='9671273']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1404954920' post='9669975']
but does Lebron really want to play for Dan Gilbert again? Imagine your boss took a dump on you the way Gilbert did when Lebron left? Would you go back so he can make money off you? If Lebron goes back more power to him...its probably the only place he can go and not get totally ripped, so maybe he goes there

[/quote]

That is exactly what I have been saying... Unless DG comes out and makes a very public apology, as public as he was with the letter, than I just don't see how a man like LBJ could go back. That letter had a very "plantation" feel to it and LBJ has been very vocal and passionate about the Sterling thing. In no way am I implying that DG is racist, I just remember that being a topic after the letter came out. In either case I am sure he will do what is best for his family and that has to be respected.
[/quote]

The plantation feel wasnt the letter as much as it was the feeling LeBron got during his tenure in Cleveland from DG. With that said, apparently LeBron wasn't thrilled with Riley and the way he treated his family and crew. Not to mention he's frustrated with the handling of Wade's health (Wade would practice and be ready to play then they would pull him just before game time). Miami is declining. Wade has little left in the tank. If they weren't able to get it done this year, they aren't going to be able to get it done next year unless they add some key pieces. Wade is too old to really consider it a big 3 anymore.

Going back to Cleveland and DG would not be impossible. Bron knows that he basically owns the NBA and DG at this point. They will let him do anything he wants. I think a big factor not getting a lot of play goes beyond basketball. Lebron's kids are getting that age where they are in school and are playing sports. LeBron is seemingly a very good father and wants to be a big part of their lives. This happens if he lives in Akron and not in Miami. His wife loves Akron and wants to make Akron her (and the kids') home full time. I think that, combined with a wealth of young talent in a horrible eastern conference, and LeBron wanting to keep his word on bringing a title to Cleveland will be the nail in the coffin for him returning to Cleveland.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1405013924' post='9674357']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404969741' post='9671255']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Cleveland wouldn't give up Wiggins(or even Bennet and Waiters) unless Love signs a long term deal. That's why any Love to Cleveland trade won't happen unless Lebron is in Cleveland, thus Love would sign a long term deal.
[/quote]

I don't know if Cleveland can win a championship with a Big 3 of Lebron, Love, and Irving. There's not enough defense there to get passed Indiana or Chicago based off the cavs projected starters and what ever's left of their bench after a cavs/t-wolves trade.
[/quote]

Eh I think it's more than enough. Chicago is only going to go as far as Derrick Rose's knee will allow. And I don't see Indiana sustaining their little run here. I mean they seriously declined last year. Let's face it, Hibbert is massively overpaid and outside of Paul George they really aren't much.

[tocino]

[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405015448' post='9674611']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1405013924' post='9674357']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404969741' post='9671255']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Cleveland wouldn't give up Wiggins(or even Bennet and Waiters) unless Love signs a long term deal. That's why any Love to Cleveland trade won't happen unless Lebron is in Cleveland, thus Love would sign a long term deal.
[/quote]

I don't know if Cleveland can win a championship with a Big 3 of Lebron, Love, and Irving. There's not enough defense there to get passed Indiana or Chicago based off the cavs projected starters and what ever's left of their bench after a cavs/t-wolves trade.
[/quote]

Eh I think it's more than enough. Chicago is only going to go as far as Derrick Rose's knee will allow. And I don't see Indiana sustaining their little run here. I mean they seriously declined last year. Let's face it, Hibbert is massively overpaid and outside of Paul George they really aren't much.
[/quote]

true, but how do you think they match up with the contenders out West. I think the Spurs are still the class of the conference with their only "con" being how old their core is outside of Leonard. I don't see how a James/Love/Irving led team can get passed them especially if they have to gut the team in order to get a love trade finalized with minnesota.

[scratchswinger]

I would have a very hard time betting against Love, Kyrie, LBJ. They need to add some shooter and interior defense but that is a deadly three. All of them can create their own offense and get their shot at anytime. I mean who are you going to double off of assuming they add a good shooter? It seems like they would have a big advantage against any defense.

[SilverBullets]

[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1405023018' post='9675507']
[quote name='SilverBullets' timestamp='1405015448' post='9674611']
[quote name='tocino' timestamp='1405013924' post='9674357']
[quote name='mnplayer' timestamp='1404969741' post='9671255']
[quote name='RJRJRJ' timestamp='1404967033' post='9671131']
Dont forget that every trade involving Love carries the risk that its a one and done possibility.
[/quote]

Cleveland wouldn't give up Wiggins(or even Bennet and Waiters) unless Love signs a long term deal. That's why any Love to Cleveland trade won't happen unless Lebron is in Cleveland, thus Love would sign a long term deal.
[/quote]

I don't know if Cleveland can win a championship with a Big 3 of Lebron, Love, and Irving. There's not enough defense there to get passed Indiana or Chicago based off the cavs projected starters and what ever's left of their bench after a cavs/t-wolves trade.
[/quote]

Eh I think it's more than enough. Chicago is only going to go as far as Derrick Rose's knee will allow. And I don't see Indiana sustaining their little run here. I mean they seriously declined last year. Let's face it, Hibbert is massively overpaid and outside of Paul George they really aren't much.
[/quote]

true, but how do you think they match up with the contenders out West. I think the Spurs are still the class of the conference with their only "con" being how old their core is outside of Leonard. I don't see how a James/Love/Irving led team can get passed them especially if they have to gut the team in order to get a love trade finalized with minnesota.
[/quote]

Next year I don't think they would stack up. But in 2 years, it's their title to lose.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405025889' post='9675773']
I would have a very hard time betting against Love, Kyrie, LBJ. They need to add some shooter and interior defense but that is a deadly three. All of them can create their own offense and get their shot at anytime. I mean who are you going to double off of assuming they add a good shooter? It seems like they would have a big advantage against any defense.
[/quote]

I don't even think they need Love. Lebron and Kyrie will create enough offense....i'm a big Wiggins fan, i'd like to see him on that team....If they have to satisfy Lebron OK....but they won't need offense. Kyrie, Waiters,Wiggins, Lebron, Verajao is still the best team in the east. And they could easily trade Waiters/Thompson for a 2 guard that plays defense. I mean i have to think Denver would do Thompson for Afflalo straight up after landing Gary Harris

I just don't think they need Love. Not at the cost of Wiggins

[MtlJeff]

this has just been a fascinating offseason regardless of what happens now though....

Imagine Lebron goes to Cleveland....what does Bosh do? What if Miami, knowing Bosh loves the city, offers the max contract to Bosh now if Lebron leaves? They would still have room to throw money at Luol Deng too to replace James....Does Miami end up with Napier-Wade-Deng-Bosh-McBob. Does Bosh still stay in Miami? All reports are that he loves the city, and some say he might not be that crazy about going back to Texas

Isn't that still a 4-5 seed in the East? What if Cleveland-Miami play each other in the playoffs?

[MtlJeff]

i mean aren't Bosh and Wade still friends? Does Bosh really want to go play with Farty Mcfart and Mr No Defense in Houston? A competitor like Bosh?

All this stuff is just really interesting

[RJRJRJ]

You have to believe that Wade made a side deal with Miami before he opted out that if Lebron left, they'd still give him a certain deal that he's already approved of. Otherwise, I can't see how he doesn't get shafted when its all said and done.

[scratchswinger]

[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1405035728' post='9676741']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405025889' post='9675773']
I would have a very hard time betting against Love, Kyrie, LBJ. They need to add some shooter and interior defense but that is a deadly three. All of them can create their own offense and get their shot at anytime. I mean who are you going to double off of assuming they add a good shooter? It seems like they would have a big advantage against any defense.
[/quote]

I don't even think they need Love. Lebron and Kyrie will create enough offense....i'm a big Wiggins fan, i'd like to see him on that team....If they have to satisfy Lebron OK....but they won't need offense. Kyrie, Waiters,Wiggins, Lebron, Verajao is still the best team in the east. And they could easily trade Waiters/Thompson for a 2 guard that plays defense. I mean i have to think Denver would do Thompson for Afflalo straight up after landing Gary Harris

I just don't think they need Love. Not at the cost of Wiggins
[/quote]

LeBron, Wiggins and Kyrie would be so much fun to watch. Letting Wiggins go could be a huge loss for a Love, I mean Wiggins might be the next Scotty Pippen. Could you imagine how could Wiggins could get D'ing up LBJ everyday in practice.

[MtlJeff]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405040694' post='9677127']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1405035728' post='9676741']
[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1405025889' post='9675773']
I would have a very hard time betting against Love, Kyrie, LBJ. They need to add some shooter and interior defense but that is a deadly three. All of them can create their own offense and get their shot at anytime. I mean who are you going to double off of assuming they add a good shooter? It seems like they would have a big advantage against any defense.
[/quote]

I don't even think they need Love. Lebron and Kyrie will create enough offense....i'm a big Wiggins fan, i'd like to see him on that team....If they have to satisfy Lebron OK....but they won't need offense. Kyrie, Waiters,Wiggins, Lebron, Verajao is still the best team in the east. And they could easily trade Waiters/Thompson for a 2 guard that plays defense. I mean i have to think Denver would do Thompson for Afflalo straight up after landing Gary Harris

I just don't think they need Love. Not at the cost of Wiggins
[/quote]

LeBron, Wiggins and Kyrie would be so much fun to watch. Letting Wiggins go could be a huge loss for a Love, I mean Wiggins might be the next Scotty Pippen. Could you imagine how could Wiggins could get D'ing up LBJ everyday in practice.
[/quote]

exactly, i had this conversation with a friend today. Love is great don't get me wrong. But Love is a 1-way player on a team that doesn't really need his way (assuming they get Lebron). Lebron in the most complete offensive player in the NBA and arguably the 2nd "best" overall. Kyrie Irving was the all-star game MVP and is a phenomenal off-the-dribble scorer. They don't need more scoring, especially if it comes at a price of defense. Wiggins should be a stopper right away, and if Lebron wants to mentor him, he could be ready very soon to be a defensive ace.

Love is a big name, but it's important you don't go so gaga that you lose sight of the big picture. Wiggins was very very highly rated for a reason. Yes he struggles driving to his left, but he's not Tony Allen here, he can shoot, he can finish...he can score 13-15 a game while being MKG caliber on defense. That's how you win championships, by having guys like that, on top of your superstars.

Even if they don't get Love....Irving, Waiters, Wiggins, Lebron, Bennett, Thompson, Verajao....

you could trade Waiters/Thompson for a whole bevy of options.

Word is that Wiggins people are saying he won't be traded. I hope they are right

[scratchswinger]

They still need shooters, if you added some deadly shooters it could a tremendous team assuming Wiggins is what we think he is and Kyrie stays healthy (which he probably will). They would not need superstars or anything like that just solid, dependable shooters like Kyle Korver, Patty Mills, Danny Green, Jodie Meeks (minus 10 million). But yeah I agree that dealing Wiggins could potentially be a huge mistake.

I wonder what Houston is going to do now with Parsons? They could have had him for 900K right? And now a S&T is off the table right? If LeBron waits until after the WC and Houston is forced to pickup Parsons and then LeBron picks Cleveland, than Bosh might test the open market. Houston would no longer have room, there would only be a few teams left. I wonder if the Lakers and Miami would offer a max contract? I would think not being that he is more of a really good role player than a centerpiece.

Jeff- if you had to offer a max to either Melo or Bosh and they were the first player on your roster, who are you taking?