Retail employees working on Holidays....whats the issue?

[FairwaysToHeaven]

Not necessarily defending walmart as i have no doubt its much more complex issue than just finger pointing and calling walmart greedy, but a lot of people like to point to costco as paying more. however, costco also employs half the number of employees per sq. ft. should walmart lay off workers and increase wages?

in general, walmart aside, business are 'for profit' businesses. I can't stand how america in general is categorizing businesses attempting to make a profit as greedy or evil. instead, maybe we should be encouraging more business to hire through our policies instead of preventing company growth, and then walmart employees would have more options elsewhere.

[Chief Illiniwek]

There is one single group at fault for the current marketplace situation in America: consumers. They dictate everything. Don't like the marketplace? Blame yourself and your neighbors. Walmart doesn't exist if people weren't so cheap. Crap Chinese products with crap service? Who cares, it's a dollar cheaper. Golfers are some of the worst. We try out products at our local pro shop or brick and mortar, then we go buy it at a mass online retailer like Discount Dan's to save $20.

[RookieBlue7]

It's obvious that several people have never worked in retail. I haven't either, but I have several family members that have and do. My M-I-L is a current employee at a large scale store that has rolled back their opening times every year since opening here. She's requested working during the day shift on Black Friday because her doctor has told her that night shift is bad for her health due to several factors. Her boss scheduled her to come in at 7:30 pm Thanksgiving and working 12 hours and it's straight time with no accrued vacation. He told her if she didn't like it, she's free to quit. So she'll be screwed up for 2 weeks and be sick at least 1 week from working that overnight. They're also open 24 hours for the 5 days through Christmas Eve.

I've never shopped on Black Friday. Have zero desire to. I did go get drunk last year with my SIL and wife and SIL's BF. They wanted to go because they'd never been, her BF and I went to the liquor store in that shopping center before they closed and bought a few bottles and chilled in a lounge chair next to the car, lol. I saw a fight between 2 women and an old lady get pushed down. I got up and asked her if she needed help and she bit my head off for "being in my way". Oooookay lady, you just got stepped on by 4 or 5 people and I'm seeing if you're okay. Yeah, stayed by the car the rest of the time.

I've always bought online and did a few cyber Mondays because the deals are better than the one or two sucker deals to get you in the store.

[Petethreeput]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385521537' post='8213778']
There is one single group at fault for the current marketplace situation in America: consumers. They dictate everything. Don't like the marketplace? Blame yourself and your neighbors. Walmart doesn't exist if people weren't so cheap. Crap Chinese products with crap service? Who cares, it's a dollar cheaper. Golfers are some of the worst. We try out products at our local pro shop or brick and mortar, then we go buy it at a mass online retailer like Discount Dan's to save $20.
[/quote]

I worked in retail for a while. We were a small store. People would come in and ask us all these questions, test all of our inventory and then say "I will be back." Yeah, they came back later when the item they bought on-line for less money needed to be fixed/ returned. These people thought we forgot, but good retailers don't forget. We would ship the stuff back for them because we believed in customer service... but we never forgot who they were.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='HoosierMizuno' timestamp='1385518479' post='8213528']
Not necessarily defending walmart as i have no doubt its much more complex issue than just finger pointing and calling walmart greedy, but a lot of people like to point to costco as paying more. however, costco also employs half the number of employees per sq. ft. should walmart lay off workers and increase wages?

in general, walmart aside, business are 'for profit' businesses. I can't stand how america in general is categorizing businesses attempting to make a profit as greedy or evil. instead, maybe we should be encouraging more business to hire through our policies instead of preventing company growth, and then walmart employees would have more options elsewhere.
[/quote]

Do any of the waltmarts even run walmart?

I wonder if sam walmart was still running walmart and it was privately held

He would have a bunch of old ladies working at 9pm during the holidays?

[4Wedges]

[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1385517642' post='8213442']
[quote name='4Wedges' timestamp='1385500723' post='8212088']
[quote name='Krt22' timestamp='1385486757' post='8210794']
One of the biggest offenders of this practice now is walmart and Walmart is the poster child of
Corporate greed. They do it for profit, no other reason, while they pay their employees dirt.
[/quote]

Could you please name a few business' that aren't in business to make a profit?

Thanks.
[/quote]

Problem with Walmart is the dirt they pay their employees. There was a piece on the news a week or so ago about how they have about 20% of the people receiving welfare or food stamps, with an average of $14k salary a year. They were by far the largest employer of people in that category.... while the other businesses are out to make profits as well, which is the point of any business, none of them do that....
[/quote]

What should Walmart pay for unskilled labor? $10/hr? $15? Why not $5 more than whatever number you pick?

They hire people at $X/hr and people take the job...and that's Walmarts fault? Always found that an interesting, and ignorant, viewpoint.

Now, when some managers at Walmart got caught forcing employees to work overtime without overtime pay, then you betcha they needed to be busted for that, and they were. But blaming Walmart for providing jobs? Laughable.

BTW...I don't shop at Walmart...I can't even tell you the last time I was in one. I shop the local stores still, going out of my way to do it, but only because I can't stand going into a Walmart.

[FairwaysToHeaven]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385521537' post='8213778']
There is one single group at fault for the current marketplace situation in America: consumers. They dictate everything. Don't like the marketplace? Blame yourself and your neighbors. Walmart doesn't exist if people weren't so cheap. Crap Chinese products with crap service? Who cares, it's a dollar cheaper. Golfers are some of the worst. We try out products at our local pro shop or brick and mortar, then we go buy it at a mass online retailer like Discount Dan's to save $20.
[/quote]

you forgot one of the zero's....fixed it for you. "retailer like Discount Dan's to save $200"

but yeah, its the way its going to always be if online deals are often 30-40% cheaper for the exact same product.

this boils down to the need for a strong economy. you can't expect retailers to pay more in a weak economy when they are fighting against online retailers and lower consumer spending, and you can't expect consumers to pay more money for products that will get the job done just as effectively, especially when their wages are being effectively reduced by higher taxes. the idea that we are helping those unable to afford things by bullying the job providers is a trend that won't end well.

a strong economy is one that wages of ALL are increasing. as it is now, wages are declining amoung the middle class, so its hard to blame them for wanting to find the best deals available. and the fix to this isn't to punish or force those providing the deals to pay employees more, its to create a system that encourages growth among the businesses which creates more jobs, and gives the employees options to leave if they feel under paid.

[Petethreeput]

[quote name='HoosierMizuno' timestamp='1385575277' post='8216662']
[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385521537' post='8213778']
There is one single group at fault for the current marketplace situation in America: consumers. They dictate everything. Don't like the marketplace? Blame yourself and your neighbors. Walmart doesn't exist if people weren't so cheap. Crap Chinese products with crap service? Who cares, it's a dollar cheaper. Golfers are some of the worst. We try out products at our local pro shop or brick and mortar, then we go buy it at a mass online retailer like Discount Dan's to save $20.
[/quote]

you forgot one of the zero's....fixed it for you. "retailer like Discount Dan's to save $200"

but yeah, its the way its going to always be if online deals are often 30-40% cheaper for the exact same product.

this boils down to the need for a strong economy. you can't expect retailers to pay more in a weak economy when they are fighting against online retailers and lower consumer spending, and you can't expect consumers to pay more money for products that will get the job done just as effectively, especially when their wages are being effectively reduced by higher taxes. the idea that we are helping those unable to afford things by bullying the job providers is a trend that won't end well.

a strong economy is one that wages of ALL are increasing. as it is now, wages are declining amoung the middle class, so its hard to blame them for wanting to find the best deals available. and the fix to this isn't to punish or force those providing the deals to pay employees more, its to create a system that encourages growth among the businesses which creates more jobs, and gives the employees options to leave if they feel under paid.
[/quote]

So you see the exact things I am arguing against you with... interesting. I see the lowering PPP of wages as a reason for corporate to respect of their employees and not making them work holidays for peanuts. You are saying lower PPP is why they "should" work holidays to provide the service to others with diminishing PPP.

As for the internet thing, I cannot disagree with you more. The difference with many internet providers is they ship direct from the manufacturer so they have greatly reduced the necessary inventory overhead. The small retailer has to have the golf club on site so you can swing it, then you can know if you like it. For them to provide that service they have invested 55% of the retail price of the driver for the consumers comfort. For that consumer to then use that retailers $210 to swing the club and then go to an online retailer and ORDER that club for less is unforgiveable. If a person can't see that, then as a society we have much bigger fish to fry.

Having said this, I know exactly what shoes I like to wear, my size doesn't change, and I know the style I like. I will look for them on the internet. I am not using a retailer who has invested in the shoes so that I may try them on. I am not abusing a local entrepreneur so I know I don't lose $X.

[blink3665]

I used to work retail management. It's something that anyone that works in retail should expect. Retail employees are there for ONE reason. To make the company money. How do they do that? Open when the customers want them to be open. I would always make sure that I made that VERY clear to the people hired on as seasonal employees as well as employees that were hired during normal times. That seemed to help a bit. I understand, people want to spend the holiday with their family. So do I. BUT, we signed up to work this job. If you don't like it? Quit. I would much rather have a job and have to work holidays than to not have a job, and be bummed out at the holidays because I'm unemployed...

[awil]

The view that so many Americans have on thanksgiving is shocking to me . The fact that it's considered a "national holiday " should upset people .
Hopefully I didn't cross the line if I did feel free to delete

[JJensen]

[quote name='awil' timestamp='1385581415' post='8217302']
The view that so many Americans have on thanksgiving is shocking to me . The fact that it's considered a "national holiday " should upset people .
Hopefully I didn't cross the line if I did feel free to delete
[/quote]

You don't consider Thanksgiving a national holiday? What is it then?

[awil]

[quote name='JJensen' timestamp='1385584937' post='8217564']
[quote name='awil' timestamp='1385581415' post='8217302']
The view that so many Americans have on thanksgiving is shocking to me . The fact that it's considered a "national holiday " should upset people .
Hopefully I didn't cross the line if I did feel free to delete
[/quote]

You don't consider Thanksgiving a national holiday? What is it then?
[/quote]
If this is what our country chooses to acknowledge as a national holiday that is down right shameful in my opinion . I still gather with family and enjoy the time as most people don't know the story behind it and I get to gather with family I don't always see
http://hnn.us/article/15002
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/11/25/thanksgiving-celebrating-the-genocide-of-native-americans/
http://m.huffpost.com/us/

[Chief Illiniwek]

So you think it's a shameful holiday, but then go ahead and celebrate it just like everyone else. Lol

[JJensen]

As unfortunate as the original meaning may have been. It has become a national holiday wether you like it or not. I will spend the day with my family, enjoying being with them and being thankful for what I have.

[awil]

[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385588859' post='8217934']
So you think it's a shameful holiday, but then go ahead and celebrate it just like everyone else. Lol
[/quote]
I'm not going to turn down a invitation to gather with my family when my grandparents are passing away and won't be around . So I apologize if I choose to gather with my family on this but 99% of America celebrates this holiday .

[Petethreeput]

Being with family is the celebration.

You are young and while it is easy to fill your head with the knowledge you espouse here, I would also encourage you to read Howard Zinn's People's History (specifically Bartholome de la Casas bit at the beginning), Indian Givers by Jack Weatherford, The Sand Creek Massacre by Hoig, Lies my History Teacher Told Me by Loewen, and there are so many other books that celebrate/ set right the history of the day. Massacre at Wounded Knee is another one you may want to read about.

The simple fact that you meet with your family on a day designed to feast with your family shows you are celebrating the holiday. Sorry, if you want to not celebrate the holiday; come to MT, work on a reservation in any social worker capacity, and then lecture us who enjoy being with family on our own immorality. You are, IMO, no better than us. I doubt its 99% either.

[awil]

[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1385589810' post='8218024']
Being with family is the celebration.

You are young and while it is easy to fill your head with the knowledge you espouse here, I would also encourage you to read Howard Zinn's People's History (specifically Bartholome de la Casas bit at the beginning), Indian Givers by Jack Weatherford, The Sand Creek Massacre by Hoig, Lies my History Teacher Told Me by Loewen, and there are so many other books that celebrate/ set right the history of the day. Massacre at Wounded Knee is another one you may want to read about.

The simple fact that you meet with your family on a day designed to feast with your family shows you are celebrating the holiday. Sorry, if you want to not celebrate the holiday; come to MT, work on a reservation in any social worker capacity, and then lecture us who enjoy being with family on our own immorality. You are, IMO, no better than us. I doubt its 99% either.
[/quote]
I'm sorry. I actually have a percentage of Indian in me on my dads side , I do not live on the reservation because my great grandpa left that life because he didn't want to raise his kids there .
So sorry for lecturing you about "immortality" ,and I have read chapters if zinn for apush . I will have to check that chapter out . and no I do not think I'm better then anybody else

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='awil' timestamp='1385588435' post='8217894']
[quote name='JJensen' timestamp='1385584937' post='8217564']
[quote name='awil' timestamp='1385581415' post='8217302']
The view that so many Americans have on thanksgiving is shocking to me . The fact that it's considered a "national holiday " should upset people .
Hopefully I didn't cross the line if I did feel free to delete
[/quote]

You don't consider Thanksgiving a national holiday? What is it then?
[/quote]
If this is what our country chooses to acknowledge as a national holiday that is down right shameful in my opinion . I still gather with family and enjoy the time as most people don't know the story behind it and I get to gather with family I don't always see
http://hnn.us/article/15002
http://newsjunkiepost.com/2010/11/25/thanksgiving-celebrating-the-genocide-of-native-americans/
http://m.huffpost.com/us/
[/quote]

What's your problem with Thankgiving?

You eat and drink all day and watch fooball on da fooball field.

How is that shameful?

[RJRJRJ]

[quote name='awil' timestamp='1385581415' post='8217302']
The view that so many Americans have on thanksgiving is shocking to me . The fact that it's considered a "national holiday " should upset people .
Hopefully I didn't cross the line if I did feel free to delete
[/quote]

Im more surprised that so many people want to spend time with their family at all.

[Mulligan26]

[quote name='Petethreeput' timestamp='1385522429' post='8213868']
[quote name='Chief Illiniwek' timestamp='1385521537' post='8213778']
There is one single group at fault for the current marketplace situation in America: consumers. They dictate everything. Don't like the marketplace? Blame yourself and your neighbors. Walmart doesn't exist if people weren't so cheap. Crap Chinese products with crap service? Who cares, it's a dollar cheaper. Golfers are some of the worst. We try out products at our local pro shop or brick and mortar, then we go buy it at a mass online retailer like Discount Dan's to save $20.
[/quote]

I worked in retail for a while. We were a small store. People would come in and ask us all these questions, test all of our inventory and then say "I will be back." Yeah, they came back later when the item they bought on-line for less money needed to be fixed/ returned. These people thought we forgot, but good retailers don't forget. We would ship the stuff back for them because we believed in customer service... but we never forgot who they were.
[/quote]

I tell them nicely to get f*****... In my business if you buy online, you take money directly out of my pocket when you waste my time with simple request like a contact transfer. Customer service died years ago.

[bscinstnct]

This guy said take your job and

http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/28/us/pizza-store-thanksgiving-firing/index.html?c=homepage-t

[deadsolid...shank]

As I sit here at 8:30 on Thanksgiving my daughter is three hours into her 12 hour shift at a big box store that won't even allow them to leave for their "lunch" break.

I'm sorry, no matter how anyone tries to justify it, it is just not needed.

[golfortennis]

[quote name='4Wedges' timestamp='1385558600' post='8215310']
[quote name='Bluefan75' timestamp='1385517642' post='8213442']
[quote name='4Wedges' timestamp='1385500723' post='8212088']
[quote name='Krt22' timestamp='1385486757' post='8210794']
One of the biggest offenders of this practice now is walmart and Walmart is the poster child of
Corporate greed. They do it for profit, no other reason, while they pay their employees dirt.
[/quote]

Could you please name a few business' that aren't in business to make a profit?

Thanks.
[/quote]

Problem with Walmart is the dirt they pay their employees. There was a piece on the news a week or so ago about how they have about 20% of the people receiving welfare or food stamps, with an average of $14k salary a year. They were by far the largest employer of people in that category.... while the other businesses are out to make profits as well, which is the point of any business, none of them do that....
[/quote]

What should Walmart pay for unskilled labor? $10/hr? $15? Why not $5 more than whatever number you pick?

They hire people at $X/hr and people take the job...and that's Walmarts fault? Always found that an interesting, and ignorant, viewpoint.

Now, when some managers at Walmart got caught forcing employees to work overtime without overtime pay, then you betcha they needed to be busted for that, and they were. But blaming Walmart for providing jobs? Laughable.

BTW...I don't shop at Walmart...I can't even tell you the last time I was in one. I shop the local stores still, going out of my way to do it, but only because I can't stand going into a Walmart.
[/quote]

Problem is, Walmart only barely meets the definition of "providing" jobs. They put their wage scale in such a position that you and I end up paying a good chunk of those people's income.

I hate Walmart for reasons far greater than this, but once they start using the welfare system as their backdrop.... If I could find the item it would make sense what I am trying to say.

Here is one of many:

[url="http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/11/welfare-queen-walmart-has-thanksgiving-food-drive-for-its-own-needy-employees.html"]http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2013/11/welfare-queen-walmart-has-thanksgiving-food-drive-for-its-own-needy-employees.html[/url]

While there is certainly likely some spending habits that need to change in many cases, Wal-mart is offloading wages onto taxpayers. Coupled with many other business practices of theirs...