Ok, the short story is that I *consistanly* hit an 80g ADDI 5MPH faster than I hit most any other 60g-70g shaft.

I'm not fast. A 60-70 is 91-95 with the occasional 100+ pop. The ADDI is running 99-101 very consistenty. Technically, I probably shouldn't even be hitting the thing, but here I am... I'm trying to figure out what swing flaw the heavy shaft is masking/fixing thst is allowing me to swing faster and be more consistent.

The long story..

I'm going to start this by admitting that my swing is jacked. I know that. Especially with drivers. I think it's mostly in my transition, but when I'm really off, my takeaway is fast and jerky. I've NEVER been able to hit a 60g driver shaft with any consistency. For the last 18+ months I've played almost exclusively with a 3W.

Fast forward to 6 months ago when I pick up a 915 3+ with the 80g D+ in it. Hitting it really well, but like most wrxers, I figure there has to be more. So I start picking up and trying new shafts. As I go through shafts I get an 80G ADDI S. I love the feel, but I'm losing yardage because it's too high and spinny compared to the D+.

Somehow, during this time, I find an immaculate R1 in the used bin for $100 and figure it's worth a try. I think it had a 50g rogue in it, so for grins I extend the ADDI to 44.5" and stick her in the R1. The combo for me is gold. Longest, best and most consistent flight I've had in a few years. I'm figuring that it's gotta be because my spin is down and a lower swing speed is helping me hit the center more often.

Last week I'm curious and take it into the shop to test and see what's different. I test 4-5 new and older drivers looking at launch and spin. Launch and spin are both down with the ADDI/R1. But... Club head speed is UP by 5mph min....

So, again, I get that its my swing. A 60g shaft *should* be faster, even if it is erratic. Something in the heavy shaft is helping me swing faster. It could also just be that the shaft/head combo fit my swing. But I have no forking idea what it is.

Any ideas on what I can look at/focus on? I can't help but to think that if I can get even more out of a club if I could fix the flaw the 80g is masking and get some more speed out of a 60g.....

Thanks!

I swing it better with 80-95 gram driver shafts with no loss of speed. There is obviously something with the added weight that helps our sequencing

Maybe the heavier weight forces the player to use the club forces rather than overpower them

any of you throw stones around as a kid? why can't you thow a little pebble as far as a medium stone that felt "just right"?

Earlier this season, I put Opti Vibe weights down in the shafts of my irons. Instantly picked up a full club & a half on each iron. It's helped my timing & sequencing is my guess, but they've been a revelation for me.

One of Srixons new drivers the Z 355 swing weights in at D8 which heavier than the relatively std swing weight of D2.

I put a UST Aixcore Tour Black 89 stiff in my 460 SLDR over 10 months ago and it's been the most consistent Driver I've hit for a long time. I've dabbled with 2 other drivers in that time and keep going back to the hefty SLDR after 2-3 rounds as they can't beat it.
What I have noticed is with the heavier weight I'm less prone to throwing out from the top on the down swing. I drop into the slot much better more often which has to be giving me more club head speed as the throw from the top is a swing speed killer.

I've also recent re-shafted a set of Callaway S2H2 Pat Pend irons with some True Temper Black/Gold shafts. I bought the shafts as 3-PW ready to go straight in. It wasn't until I'd shafted them all up and put them in the bag that I found they were an inch longer than my 712 AP2's. I put them on my swing weight scales and they were coming in at a very hefty E2-3. I've had a couple of games now with these and must say I like them very much. I've picked up a club and a half in distance and flushing the long irons consistently.
I've learnt that an extra inch in shaft length can add roughly 6-8 swing weight points.

I'm sold on heavy and hefty, it works for me.

[quote name='Hatchmanss76' timestamp='1444309851' post='12427290']
One of Srixons new drivers the Z 355 swing weights in at D8 which heavier than the relatively std swing weight of D2.

I put a UST Aixcore Tour Black 89 stiff in my 460 SLDR over 10 months ago and it's been the most consistent Driver I've hit for a long time. I've dabbled with 2 other drivers in that time and keep going back to the hefty SLDR after 2-3 rounds as they can't beat it.
What I have noticed is with the heavier weight I'm less prone to throwing out from the top on the down swing. I drop into the slot much better more often which has to be giving me more club head speed as the throw from the top is a swing speed killer.

I've also recent re-shafted a set of Callaway S2H2 Pat Pend irons with some True Temper Black/Gold shafts. I bought the shafts as 3-PW ready to go straight in. It wasn't until I'd shafted them all up and put them in the bag that I found they were an inch longer than my 712 AP2's. I put them on my swing weight scales and they were coming in at a very hefty E2-3. I've had a couple of games now with these and must say I like them very much. I've picked up a club and a half in distance and flushing the long irons consistently.
I've learnt that an extra inch in shaft length can add roughly 6-8 swing weight points.

I'm sold on heavy and hefty, it works for me.
[/quote]
The club and a half distance is directly related to the extra length of the shaft compared to your regular irons, nothing else. 1" equates to 4mph more clubhead speed for a good player which is going to gain you the distance you mention

Great topic. I was fooling around last winter in a simulator at one of the PGA Tour Superstores. Hit a couple of different demo 7-irons with the standard, factory-installed (R-flex) graphite shafts. Saw typical distances based on my glacial swingspeed with each club I tested. Just for grins, I grabbed an older Nike VR Pro Combo 7-iron with a DGS300 shaft. Hit several shots, and literally picked up a consistent 10+ mph. Are you kidding me?

I have to believe the heavier weight is forcing me to do something in my swing as far as the transition or something like that, and really need to think about adding lead tape or something to add SW points.

[quote name='schiavone02' timestamp='1444307002' post='12427078']
Earlier this season, I put Opti Vibe weights down in the shafts of my irons. Instantly picked up a full club & a half on each iron. It's helped my timing & sequencing is my guess, but they've been a revelation for me.
[/quote]

If static weight is increased by clubhead, we will tend to swing the clubhead. whereas
counter balancing changes balance point closer to hands and that increase in static weight induces us (subconscious) to use more effort.

Mark E comments on golf club weight of George Knudson, Moe Norman and Ben Hogan.

2:50
[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBZ3pVbAnTE"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBZ3pVbAnTE[/url]

OP: There might be something else going on here. Most golf stores use a simulator which takes high speed pictures of the ball and calculate club head speed using the ball speed it measures, typically by using a set smash factor.

What could be going on is you have stumbled onto a shaft which lets you hit the ball closer to the sweetspot more often. This "centeredness of strike" results in higher ball speed, which the machine mistakenly calculates as higer clubhead speed.

Here is a theead about a video series by a teaching pro who does a bunch of youtube videos. He and a friend hit the weakest and strongest shafts they can find and both get basically the same results with either shaft. His contention is that shafts dont matter nearly as much as most think, and the goal is to find the shaft which allows you to get center contact most frequently and feels food to you.

Just food for thought.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1243464-crossfield-says-shaft-basically-does-not-matter/page__pid__12404380__st__90#entry12404380

when I was at PING on trackman in 2008 ... with a the '07 Burner TP . .they could not fit me in a club that outperformed it

I had a 44.75" speeder tour spec 952 in it ... 95 or 96 grams IIRC

I still have the #'s in my head .. 14* launch, 108.9 speed, 2200ish spin and 278 carry

Some guys are faster with heavier (and shorter) shafts

I think there was a thread on this a few years ago and it actually had a video of a fitting where it was proven out a guy swinging a 125g steel shaft had the best #'s

[quote name='TravAz' timestamp='1444320721' post='12428126']
OP: There might be something else going on here. Most golf stores use a simulator which takes high speed pictures of the ball and calculate club head speed using the ball speed it measures, typically by using a set smash factor.

What could be going on is you have stumbled onto a shaft which lets you hit the ball closer to the sweetspot more often. This "centeredness of strike" results in higher ball speed, which the machine mistakenly calculates as higer clubhead speed.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1243464-crossfield-says-shaft-basically-does-not-matter/page__pid__12404380__st__90#entry12404380
[/quote]

This explains a lot. On a GG launch monitor, I grabbed a random driver with a light shaft and hit it, and it read about 100mph with an extreme heel hit and monster slice. Ball lands 230-250 out, 2 counties over. Pretty typical result for me on the course, which is why I never hit driver. Then I picked up a 3w with a heavier shaft, hit it straight three times in a row and was surprised to see it reading 109mph. I'd always thought I had a sub 100 mph driver, but yet on the off chance I caught one in the center it will carry well past 300, which is supposed to be impossible at that CHS. Anyway, I've got a skypro that will read the actual speed at 118, which makes sense based on some of the distances I get, but is miles different from GG. In theory then, if I were to hit it in the center at GG, ball speed would go way up and the calculated CHS would read more accurately and jive with on course observations...

I picked up a SLDR with a 67g shaft, popped some lead tape on the head, and while contact is still inconsistent, it's way better than before with a lighter club. Maybe I should be looking at something stronger than S flex!

I dont claim to know much about shafts - i was always in the xflex range back in the day - so I never learned what the right shaft should feel like. the idea seems to be forget about flex and focus on feel and consistently hitting the middle of the club face. It well could be exactly because of shaft weight, as all of the anecdotal evidence in this theread supports.

Kind of freeing actually - since you dont have to be confined simply by a flex that "matches" your ss.

[quote name='TravAz' timestamp='1444320721' post='12428126']
OP: There might be something else going on here. Most golf stores use a simulator which takes high speed pictures of the ball and calculate club head speed using the ball speed it measures, typically by using a set smash factor.

What could be going on is you have stumbled onto a shaft which lets you hit the ball closer to the sweetspot more often. This "centeredness of strike" results in higher ball speed, which the machine mistakenly calculates as higer clubhead speed.

Here is a theead about a video series by a teaching pro who does a bunch of youtube videos. He and a friend hit the weakest and strongest shafts they can find and both get basically the same results with either shaft. His contention is that shafts dont matter nearly as much as most think, and the goal is to find the shaft which allows you to get center contact most frequently and feels food to you.

Just food for thought.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/1243464-crossfield-says-shaft-basically-does-not-matter/page__pid__12404380__st__90#entry12404380
[/quote]
I think you may be onto something here. It seems that during my fitting sessions higher chs and ball speed readings always occur when I hit the sweet spot. If I miss hit slightly and ball speef is down, chs is invariably down too.

[quote name='JRS' timestamp='1444297870' post='12426822']
any of you throw stones around as a kid? why can't you thow a little pebble as far as a medium stone that felt "just right"?
[/quote]

for the same reason one cannot throw a larger stone as far as the medium stone that felt "just right".

Great info everyone. Thanks for the links as well!

Just to clarify, the overall weight is up, but the SW isn't too high. I think it was at d4 with a midsize grip.... So D6-ish with standard grip.

The center hit theory is interesting... Maybe another reason I should only worry about launch and spin when I'm testing gear inside..

[quote name='Splitter' timestamp='1444353073' post='12430462']
Great info everyone. Thanks for the links as well!

Just to clarify, the overall weight is up, but the SW isn't too high. I think it was at d4 with a midsize grip.... So D6-ish with standard grip.

The center hit theory is interesting... Maybe another reason I should only worry about launch and spin when I'm testing gear inside..
[/quote]

...well, that and feel, and whether you can find the middle of the club face, as that will dramatically affect launch, spin and curvature.

[quote name='Splitter' timestamp='1444353073' post='12430462']
Great info everyone. Thanks for the links as well!

Just to clarify, the overall weight is up, but the SW isn't too high. I think it was at d4 with a midsize grip.... So D6-ish with standard grip.

The center hit theory is interesting... Maybe another reason I should only worry about launch and spin when I'm testing gear inside..
[/quote]

Lm data at a typical retail establishment should only be used to compare one club to another during the same session, in my opinion. Trackman, flightscope, or gcIi + hmt are obvious exceptions, but your typically not findng that at golfsmith. Im sure there are other exceptions. Also I would add ball-speed to your "data points to pay attention" to list, since thats really the one metric those devices are best at capturing.

Typically your hitting garbage balls that they have marked up with a sharpie. On an interesting side note, i found a callaway chrome soft on the course a while back with the soccer ball pattern. I tried it out in a retal lm and it seemed to work pretty well, with much more believable spin numbers than with their balls.

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1444317203' post='12427802'][quote name='Hatchmanss76' timestamp='1444309851' post='12427290']
One of Srixons new drivers the Z 355 swing weights in at D8 which heavier than the relatively std swing weight of D2.

I put a UST Aixcore Tour Black 89 stiff in my 460 SLDR over 10 months ago and it's been the most consistent Driver I've hit for a long time. I've dabbled with 2 other drivers in that time and keep going back to the hefty SLDR after 2-3 rounds as they can't beat it.
What I have noticed is with the heavier weight I'm less prone to throwing out from the top on the down swing. I drop into the slot much better more often which has to be giving me more club head speed as the throw from the top is a swing speed killer.

I've also recent re-shafted a set of Callaway S2H2 Pat Pend irons with some True Temper Black/Gold shafts. I bought the shafts as 3-PW ready to go straight in. It wasn't until I'd shafted them all up and put them in the bag that I found they were an inch longer than my 712 AP2's. I put them on my swing weight scales and they were coming in at a very hefty E2-3. I've had a couple of games now with these and must say I like them very much. I've picked up a club and a half in distance and flushing the long irons consistently.
I've learnt that an extra inch in shaft length can add roughly 6-8 swing weight points.

I'm sold on heavy and hefty, it works for me.
[/quote]
The club and a half distance is directly related to the extra length of the shaft compared to your regular irons, nothing else. 1" equates to 4mph more clubhead speed for a good player which is going to gain you the distance you mention[/quote]

A club and a half for 1 inch. I'm not convinced of that much gain.
My gut feel it's a bit of both. Re-shafting my AP2's 1 inch over what they are now would confirm one way or another. Only problem is if I re-shaft them it will be will KBS Tours not another set of DG's.

[quote name='Hatchmanss76' timestamp='1444379244' post='12431804']
[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1444317203' post='12427802'][quote name='Hatchmanss76' timestamp='1444309851' post='12427290']
One of Srixons new drivers the Z 355 swing weights in at D8 which heavier than the relatively std swing weight of D2.

I put a UST Aixcore Tour Black 89 stiff in my 460 SLDR over 10 months ago and it's been the most consistent Driver I've hit for a long time. I've dabbled with 2 other drivers in that time and keep going back to the hefty SLDR after 2-3 rounds as they can't beat it.
What I have noticed is with the heavier weight I'm less prone to throwing out from the top on the down swing. I drop into the slot much better more often which has to be giving me more club head speed as the throw from the top is a swing speed killer.

I've also recent re-shafted a set of Callaway S2H2 Pat Pend irons with some True Temper Black/Gold shafts. I bought the shafts as 3-PW ready to go straight in. It wasn't until I'd shafted them all up and put them in the bag that I found they were an inch longer than my 712 AP2's. I put them on my swing weight scales and they were coming in at a very hefty E2-3. I've had a couple of games now with these and must say I like them very much. I've picked up a club and a half in distance and flushing the long irons consistently.
I've learnt that an extra inch in shaft length can add roughly 6-8 swing weight points.

I'm sold on heavy and hefty, it works for me.
[/quote]
The club and a half distance is directly related to the extra length of the shaft compared to your regular irons, nothing else. 1" equates to 4mph more clubhead speed for a good player which is going to gain you the distance you mention[/quote]

A club and a half for 1 inch. I'm not convinced of that much gain.
My gut feel it's a bit of both. Re-shafting my AP2's 1 inch over what they are now would confirm one way or another. Only problem is if I re-shaft them it will be will KBS Tours not another set of DG's.
[/quote]
The simple fact is that according to pga tourtrackman data players are gaining clubhead speed my 2mph with each iron

So that would be 6mph gain, which would give you a club and a half extra ballspeed easily

I have a tall friend and i hit his 6 iron as far as my 4

I would agree it's important to know if the swing speed is actually measured vs calculated. But for the sake of the question, It's not really all that uncommon to see improved swing speeds when a good match for weight is found by a player. Swing speed does not always go up and down with shaft/club weight for most players. And it is not any indication of any inherent swing flaw. It simply means that the weight (feel) is a very good 'natural' match for your particular sense of tempo/rhythm and timing. When this feels 'right' it can result in a swing that is much more free with less manipulation required. Less tension = more swing speed.

P Harrington says he is 50% more accurate with a heavier shaft in his driver.

[url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=126&v=emuwNtdMq24"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=126&v=emuwNtdMq24[/url]

Hey! Are you measuring swing speed from a monitor? Its a calculation base swing speed as someone eluded to above. You may not be actually be swinging faster in essence but you are having a much more "efficient" swing, that in essence generates more power and distance.


I have been spewing the "Shaft Fitting" flag in the equipment forums since I learned the value of static weight about 5 months ago. I have been helping friends and co workers better fit their clubs for a more efficient swing based on their swing.

2 huge mistakes I see that many people cause more problems than they realize.


1) Shafts play a huge role in delivering the "CLUB HEAD" to the ball, if you cant get it there right, it doesnt matter what club head you have on the shaft.
2) Just because you get older doesnt mean you need to go lighter. Just because you are a 30 Handicap, doesnt mean you need the 50gram graphite shafts that are stock on the SGI's that everyone says you should play.



I have some older players in my golfing circle that feel, because they are getting older they need to play lighter shafts. Which maybe so if they change the way they swing. But if they swing similar but just getting older they can benefit from heavier shafts.


Static shaft weight from my understanding is based on tempo and transition (more tempo) transition would be more flex, anyways. If you Fast, Tempo, then a heavier shaft would benefit you in essence as the weight will slow you down for a more efficient swing with better timing.

If you are slower and deliberate. then a lighter shaft will benefit you.

If your transition from the top down to the ball is deliberate as well than a play the softest flex you can play. If you load the shaft and have a very strong or explosive transition then a stronger flex is recommended due to the loading of the shaft.



So for your most likely you may not in essence be swinging faster, but the weight is still slowing you down but your are make a much more efficient swing and impact on the ball so generating better distance and "Ball Speed" which of course the launch monitor calculates as higher "Swing Speed"



Lets face is physics says something heavier will be swung slower than something lighter....


Glad you found that magic shaft, stick with it and dont doubt yourself, makes me sad when I see friends buy into I am X handicap and need X club because of it.......

[color=#282828]"Lets face it physics says something heavier will be swung slower than something lighter.... "[/color]



[color=#282828]Depends where and how much the weight is increased.[/color]

[color=#282828]10 grams added to the butt end isnt going to slow down clubhead swing speed necessarily(physics).[/color]

[color=#282828]Notice how much faster we can swing the butt end of the driver shaft if we turn the driver upsidedown? [/color]



[color=#282828]Higher MOI (more mass) in our hands, we can decelerate the hands quicker to cause more acceleration of the clubhead. [/color]
[color=#282828]Same effect for golfer with larger(more massive) forearms, can decelerate arms/hands faster, causing more acceleration of clubhead.[/color]

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1444427297' post='12434978']
[color=#282828]"Lets face it physics says something heavier will be swung slower than something lighter.... "[/color]



[color=#282828]Depends where and how much the weight is increased.[/color]

[color=#282828]10 grams added to the butt end isnt going to slow down clubhead swing speed necessarily(physics).[/color]

[color=#282828]Notice how much faster we can swing the tip of the driver if we turn the driver upsidedown? [/color]



[color=#282828]Higher MOI (more mass) in our hands, we can decelerate the hands quicker to cause more acceleration of the clubhead. [/color]
[color=#282828]Same effect for golfer with larger(more massive forearms), can decelerate arms/hands faster, causing more acceleration of clubhead.[/color]
[/quote]


Good Point wasn't referring to counter balancing


Im talking a 5lb Sledge hammer vs a 20lb sledge, no matter how hard or fast you will never swing the 20lb as fast as a 5lb, if you counter balance the 20lb yes......but again.... if its a normal setup.... aint ever going to happen.


Now then we discuss how accurate the 5lb will be at a target and where on the face of the 5lb sledge you strike, Vs how accurate and deliberate you will be with the 20lb.

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1444427474' post='12435002']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1444427297' post='12434978']
[color=#282828]"Lets face it physics says something heavier will be swung slower than something lighter.... "[/color]



[color=#282828]Depends where and how much the weight is increased.[/color]

[color=#282828]10 grams added to the butt end isnt going to slow down clubhead swing speed necessarily(physics).[/color]

[color=#282828]Notice how much faster we can swing the tip of the driver if we turn the driver upsidedown? [/color]



[color=#282828]Higher MOI (more mass) in our hands, we can decelerate the hands quicker to cause more acceleration of the clubhead. [/color]
[color=#282828]Same effect for golfer with larger(more massive forearms), can decelerate arms/hands faster, causing more acceleration of clubhead.[/color]
[/quote]


Good Point wasn't referring to counter balancing


Im talking a 5lb Sledge hammer vs a 20lb sledge, no matter how hard or fast you will never swing the 20lb as fast as a 5lb, if you counter balance the 20lb yes......but again.... if its a normal setup.... aint ever going to happen.


Now then we discuss how accurate the 5lb will be at a target and where on the face of the 5lb sledge you strike, Vs how accurate and deliberate you will be with the 20lb.
[/quote]



Ask a carpenter to nail large nails, how accurate he is with the lightest tack hammers compared to framing hammers.


Suggest that a counter balanced club/shaft is the only way to optimize weight, droop, torque, flex and balance point for clubhead speed and consistency of solid contact.

That would mean that change in static weight alone is not an indicator of more or less accurate, or more or less speed of clubhead.

[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1444429150' post='12435112']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1444427474' post='12435002']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1444427297' post='12434978']
[color=#282828]"Lets face it physics says something heavier will be swung slower than something lighter.... "[/color]



[color=#282828]Depends where and how much the weight is increased.[/color]

[color=#282828]10 grams added to the butt end isnt going to slow down clubhead swing speed necessarily(physics).[/color]

[color=#282828]Notice how much faster we can swing the tip of the driver if we turn the driver upsidedown? [/color]



[color=#282828]Higher MOI (more mass) in our hands, we can decelerate the hands quicker to cause more acceleration of the clubhead. [/color]
[color=#282828]Same effect for golfer with larger(more massive forearms), can decelerate arms/hands faster, causing more acceleration of clubhead.[/color]
[/quote]


Good Point wasn't referring to counter balancing


Im talking a 5lb Sledge hammer vs a 20lb sledge, no matter how hard or fast you will never swing the 20lb as fast as a 5lb, if you counter balance the 20lb yes......but again.... if its a normal setup.... aint ever going to happen.


Now then we discuss how accurate the 5lb will be at a target and where on the face of the 5lb sledge you strike, Vs how accurate and deliberate you will be with the 20lb.
[/quote]



Ask a carpenter to nail large nails, how accurate he is with the lightest tack hammers compared to framing hammers.


Suggest that a counter balanced club/shaft is the only way to optimize weight, droop, torque, flex and balance point for clubhead speed and consistency of solid contact.

That would mean that change in static weight alone is not an indicator of more or less accurate, or more or less speed of clubhead.
[/quote]


LOL way over my head at this point, I am not sure what your point is? If its to prove me wrong about something, I have known to be wrong about a lot of things so thats fine.


My post was just to edify the findings of OP and make sure that he he is not confusing a monitors calculation of increased distance as increased swing speed due to better contact rather than over all increase of actual swing speed,

Secondly my point of finding the best fit shaft for OP as seeing he hits better with a heavier overall static weigh shaft. Really has nothing to do with counter balancing, adding 10 grams to the handle , not optimizing weight, droop torq.......


but yeah whatevers my friends..... Im with you with what ever you got!


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DnltskkWk[/media]





*Edit* .....

Your point of flipping the driver around and swinging by the club head not the handle, If you took 2 drivers that was 50grams and 100 grams shafts and flipped them the static weight is still the same, you would still in essence swing the 50 grams faster than you would the 100 grams as Statically nothing has changed other than swing weight......

[quote name='TravAz' timestamp='1444372086' post='12431648']
[quote name='Splitter' timestamp='1444353073' post='12430462']
Great info everyone. Thanks for the links as well!

Just to clarify, the overall weight is up, but the SW isn't too high. I think it was at d4 with a midsize grip.... So D6-ish with standard grip.

The center hit theory is interesting... Maybe another reason I should only worry about launch and spin when I'm testing gear inside..
[/quote]

Lm data at a typical retail establishment should only be used to compare one club to another during the same session, in my opinion. Trackman, flightscope, or gcIi + hmt are obvious exceptions, but your typically not findng that at golfsmith. Im sure there are other exceptions. Also I would add ball-speed to your "data points to pay attention" to list, since thats really the one metric those devices are best at capturing.

Typically your hitting garbage balls that they have marked up with a sharpie. On an interesting side note, i found a callaway chrome soft on the course a while back with the soccer ball pattern. I tried it out in a retal lm and it seemed to work pretty well, with much more believable spin numbers than with their balls.
[/quote]

Good point.. Which is why I was using other drivers to test against. I knew the ball was flying better/further with the new club/shaft combo and was comparing against popular brands to see if I could figure out what the difference was. I was expecting LA and spin to be different, so the club speed threw me.

These guys use Bridgestone E7s in the sim, so not junk, but not super spinny balls either. That said, maybe not a bad idea to bring my fav ball in and see if it makes a diff in the sim....

Believe it or not review
On center face contact speed and distance


Not allowed because of spam/nunchuk/

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1444429746' post='12435152']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1444429150' post='12435112']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1444427474' post='12435002']
[quote name='mikah' timestamp='1444427297' post='12434978']
[color=#282828]"Lets face it physics says something heavier will be swung slower than something lighter.... "[/color]



[color=#282828]Depends where and how much the weight is increased.[/color]

[color=#282828]10 grams added to the butt end isnt going to slow down clubhead swing speed necessarily(physics).[/color]

[color=#282828]Notice how much faster we can swing the tip of the driver if we turn the driver upsidedown? [/color]



[color=#282828]Higher MOI (more mass) in our hands, we can decelerate the hands quicker to cause more acceleration of the clubhead. [/color]
[color=#282828]Same effect for golfer with larger(more massive forearms), can decelerate arms/hands faster, causing more acceleration of clubhead.[/color]
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Good Point wasn't referring to counter balancing


Im talking a 5lb Sledge hammer vs a 20lb sledge, no matter how hard or fast you will never swing the 20lb as fast as a 5lb, if you counter balance the 20lb yes......but again.... if its a normal setup.... aint ever going to happen.


Now then we discuss how accurate the 5lb will be at a target and where on the face of the 5lb sledge you strike, Vs how accurate and deliberate you will be with the 20lb.
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Ask a carpenter to nail large nails, how accurate he is with the lightest tack hammers compared to framing hammers.


Suggest that a counter balanced club/shaft is the only way to optimize weight, droop, torque, flex and balance point for clubhead speed and consistency of solid contact.

That would mean that change in static weight alone is not an indicator of more or less accurate, or more or less speed of clubhead.
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LOL way over my head at this point, I am not sure what your point is? If its to prove me wrong about something, I have known to be wrong about a lot of things so thats fine.


My post was just to edify the findings of OP and make sure that he he is not confusing a monitors calculation of increased distance as increased swing speed due to better contact rather than over all increase of actual swing speed,

Secondly my point of finding the best fit shaft for OP as seeing he hits better with a heavier overall static weigh shaft. Really has nothing to do with counter balancing, adding 10 grams to the handle , not optimizing weight, droop torq.......


but yeah whatevers my friends..... Im with you with what ever you got!


[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1DnltskkWk[/media]





*Edit* .....

Your point of flipping the driver around and swinging by the club head not the handle, If you took 2 drivers that was 50grams and 100 grams shafts and flipped them the static weight is still the same, you would still in essence swing the 50 grams faster than you would the 100 grams as Statically nothing has changed other than swing weight......
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You like apples?