Playing With Irons Not On Conforming List - Auto DQ Or Pending Situation?

If you played with irons that have grooves that are designed to be legal but have not been yet submitted to USGA/R&A would it be an auto DQ or could or could your results be pending on post tournament or on-site inspection?

Comments

  • turtlekcturtlekc 1995 MN PGA WisconsinClubWRX Posts: 12,779 ClubWRX
    Great question, I’ll look forward to hearing the replies!
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  • MitchellMitchell Members Posts: 5,451 ✭✭
    edited Mar 21, 2019 8:50pm #3
    Somewhat dependent upon phrasing of the local rule requiring condition of competition groove rule. Personally have played events that required the C of C groove rule compliance with irons that were either listed as ATR or not on list, yet the ones I used were submitted to USGA testing , found to comply, and had documentation to verify same. 
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  • MitchellMitchell Members Posts: 5,451 ✭✭
    edited Mar 21, 2019 9:02pm #4
    Regarding your original question, tournament/competition committee for events I played phrased rule so that if compliance could not be verified prior to play, player would not be allowed to play and any player found to be in noncompliance with condition after start of event would be subject to immediate disqualification of results. The disqualification was listed as not subject to appeal. Never saw rule tested, just thought phrasing was interesting and proactive.
    Taylormade R510tp TI 10.5* Fuji Evo TS 661
    Cleveland launcher DF tour 17* Fuji Rombax 8x07
    TEE CNC forged limited 3-pw DG tour concept 
    Artisan 53* s400
    Artisan 58* s400
    Cameron '96 Laguna
  • BuzzkillBuzzkill Marshals Posts: 6,695 mod
    Don't know if my irons are legal - they haven't been tested per USGA.
  • Swisstrader98Swisstrader98 Members Posts: 3,512 ✭✭
    Asking for a friend?😂

    I would think if your irons are not CURRENTLY on the conforming list, it’s auto DQ. 
  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,887 ✭✭
    edited Mar 22, 2019 8:40am #7
    In general, the rules require the clubs to be conforming,  that's different from requiring that they be on the (or a) conforming list (not the same for balls).   So that means it would NOT generally be an automatic DQ.

    There are some high level competitions that have a CC's (condition of competition) that require drivers to be on the USGA's/RA's conforming list of driver heads.  But I have not heard of any having a similar CC for irons (could be wrong about that though).

    Second the iron list is really keeping track of which irons are valid for only when the new groove rule is being enforced (which should only be for pro or high level amateur competitions).  So failing to make the iron list doesn't mean the clubs are illegal for a vast majority of competitions.   If it is one of those competitions - then the list is a convenient way to defend yourself if the legality of the clubs get challenged.  And if not on the list you would be subject to the committee's determination of whether the clubs are conforming or not.   For newer clubs that just have not made it on the list, the fact that all OEM's are new only supposed to be making clubs that conform to the new groove rules, can be a helpful argument point if they are from a reputable manufacturer.

    Obviously, If there is any question or concern, it's always best to go to the committee before the start of the competition.




  • Stuart_GStuart_G New HampshireMembers Posts: 22,887 ✭✭
    edited Mar 22, 2019 8:43am #8
    Buzzkill said:
    Don't know if my irons are legal - they haven't been tested per USGA.
    If there is an actual need (you plan to enter some high level amateur or pro comps), you can always send them off to the USGA yourself to get tested.    There are some older posts from a few people who went through that process and it actually seemed a lot easier than I would have expected.
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,040 ✭✭

    I’ll second mitchell. From what I’ve seen it’s stated before hand that C of C is in place or else it can’t be after the fact. If it is you must either find your irons in the list , or provide proof they conform. I have 2 sets of titleist blades like this with USga certificates stating they have been tested at their facility and conform. It’s a free service. Just contact the USga testing lab and get the info and ship them up. They test and ship right back to you with pass or fail and reason why. I’ve had a set fail as well. So I’ve been around that whole bush both directions.

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  • schimmelschimmel Members Posts: 15 ✭✭

    Thanks, that's what im going to do. I thought, I read before, it was $500 per head for testing - free sounds a bit better than that.

  • turtlekcturtlekc 1995 MN PGA WisconsinClubWRX Posts: 12,779 ClubWRX

    Hi @bladehunter I'm just curious about how long that process takes and what it costs?

    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,040 ✭✭
    edited Mar 23, 2019 12:43am #12

    @turtlekc

    Last set I sent was about 12 days total shipping and all sc to New Jersey ( I think that’s right ) and back . The tester was in contact with me directly and tested them quick and personally shipped them back. Reallly easy and painless process. Process is free. Just pay shipping. If I remember right you ship then up with a return label in the box.

    Funny aside , the set I sent that failed. Was a raw set of Vega heads that originally were pga test or demo heads. Circa 2009 ish. Anyway. He tested them and called. And was laughing. He said “ sharpest grooves I’ve tested yet. They aren’t even close “. I laughed and told him I suspected they were illegal. Every 8 iron down shot would have golf ball cover in the grooves after the shot.

    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Titleist Tour Proto MB 3-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,040 ✭✭


    Here are pics of the passing titleist blank ( no model number stamp ) prototypes and the failing Vega raw heads certificates. This is what the USga sends back. You present this to the committee to prove your grooves are good ( assuming they pass ).

    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Titleist Tour Proto MB 3-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,040 ✭✭

    Vega set that failed.

    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Titleist Tour Proto MB 3-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
  • BuzzkillBuzzkill Marshals Posts: 6,695 mod
    edited Mar 23, 2019 1:28am #15

    @Stuart G. said:
    Buzzkill said:

    Don't know if my irons are legal - they haven't been tested per USGA.

    If there is an actual need (you plan to enter some high level amateur or pro comps), you can always send them off to the USGA yourself to get tested.    There are some older posts from a few people who went through that process and it actually seemed a lot easier than I would have expected.

    No need BUT there was a internet rumor that these irons were dumped due to illegal grooves which obviously wasn't true.

    Post edited by Buzzkill on
  • turtlekcturtlekc 1995 MN PGA WisconsinClubWRX Posts: 12,779 ClubWRX

    @bladehunter said:
    @turtlekc

    Last set I sent was about 12 days total shipping and all sc to New Jersey ( I think that’s right ) and back . The tester was in contact with me directly and tested them quick and personally shipped them back. Reallly easy and painless process. Process is free. Just pay shipping. If I remember right you ship then up with a return label in the box.

    Funny aside , the set I sent that failed. Was a raw set of Vega heads that originally were pga test or demo heads. Circa 2009 ish. Anyway. He tested them and called. And was laughing. He said “ sharpest grooves I’ve tested yet. They aren’t even close “. I laughed and told him I suspected they were illegal. Every 8 iron down shot would have golf ball cover in the grooves after the shot.

    I had no idea that service existed, and free. Thank you for the info Blade!!!

    I could be wrong
    I've been wrong before
    I'll be wrong again
  • bladehunterbladehunter Today was a good day.... Members Posts: 25,040 ✭✭

    @turtlekc said:

    @bladehunter said:
    @turtlekc

    Last set I sent was about 12 days total shipping and all sc to New Jersey ( I think that’s right ) and back . The tester was in contact with me directly and tested them quick and personally shipped them back. Reallly easy and painless process. Process is free. Just pay shipping. If I remember right you ship then up with a return label in the box.

    Funny aside , the set I sent that failed. Was a raw set of Vega heads that originally were pga test or demo heads. Circa 2009 ish. Anyway. He tested them and called. And was laughing. He said “ sharpest grooves I’ve tested yet. They aren’t even close “. I laughed and told him I suspected they were illegal. Every 8 iron down shot would have golf ball cover in the grooves after the shot.

    I had no idea that service existed, and free. Thank you for the info Blade!!!

    Quite welcomed.

    This thread made me think of those Vega blades. Easily the coolest set of irons I’ve owned. Really liked them. But sold them right after the test since I didn’t want to grow accustomed to the truly awesome spin they provided. Lol. Wish I had kept them.

    TM Tour M6 11.2 * KK Tini XTS 70X
    TM Tour 17 M1 14.5* Graphite Design ADDI 8x
    Titleist Tour Proto MB 3-pw Modus 130X
    Ping Glide Forged   54 60 S400
    Cameron GSS 009 1.5 tungsten sole weights, sound slot
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