Why are we so quick to penalize distance?

[cxx]

Couldn't tell from your post but I'm assuming this was the first time you played the course. Seems like a member's course as apposed to a resort course. Good resort courses put the trouble in view from the tee, which I like. With a member's course seeing everything is not as important. All the members know where the trouble is and usually inform their guests.

If the rough was that penal, the bunkers might have been there to save you rather than hurt you.

[oikos1]

Looks like you bit off more than you could chew. First of all, I wouldn't assume anything about any "blind" shot. Second, the line you drew/took looks like one heck of a carry for even the longest of hitters. Not every hole rewards the carry of bunkers, although for your picture it does look like a high draw (for a righty) could carry the bunker and still land in the fairway.

I probably would've opted for a fade off the left side of the fairway. Looks like there would be the option to lay up or go for it depending on the conditions.

[Titleist99]

We were mainly talking about tournament golf. Before mucking with the golf ball we may want to visit the wedges again. We could also return to sheep trimming the grass and digging bunkers to bed down at night.....(sarcasm)

[smashdn]

I'd say the span of players needing accommodating by the design has expanded greatly in the last 30 years. If you were truly bad at golf you didn't play. If you were really good at golf you shot in the upper 60's.

There are a couple of them that admit they cannot provide a course that challenges a +7-+8 golfer while not beating the brains out of a -18 golfer. Great golfers can overcome poor angles. They don't hit it into trouble and aren't often tempted to make mistakes by the design or visuals. The opposite is the case for 20 cappers. Even a perfect drive to the perfect spot in the fairway will not give them many scoring opportunities and they are more likely to duff the next shot as they are to hit it near the green.

 

Regarding visual appeal, I'm not a good enough player to get much enjoyment out of my playing. I got to get it from the surroundings so visually appealing, fun, nature, exercise, I got to have those things or I got no good reason to be out there flagellating the earth with a club.

[smashdn]

Yes, first and only time playing that course. It was a bit of road trip for an event. The rough beyond the cart path I hit into was "native area" that was bush hogged. I got a club on the ball just no shot at going for the green in two.

From the tee all you could see was the bunkers in the top of the hill, the path to the right of those bunkers and the fairway curving around the hill to the left. I wrongly assumed the bunkers were protecting the line of charm. I striped a drive right over them into the gunch. Executing the aggressive play along the aggressive line was not rewarded. Sort of irritating.

[smashdn]

I assumed incorrectly that the bunker complex stuck into the fairway. There is fairway in front of the bunkers just not beyond (someone put a cart path back there). With the way the hole plays the landing area is blind as the hole hugs around that hill. Even a fade off the left edge is playing to a blind spot. The hole is only 537 from where we would have played it. I still think I parred it or no worse than bogey with a three jack but it was pretty crappy after carrying that bunker complex and ending up in stubbly native area.

[smashdn]

You can't divorce tournament golf from member play. The first impacts the latter. By and large tournament golf is played upon member's courses. Sometimes those tournament conditions render those member's courses unfit for play.

[Titleist99]

Just like you cant divorce tournament golf balls from members play either.

Sometime members want to play the same courses the pros play during tournament setups. To say that a tournament setup is unfit to play for members is a tremendous leap, c'mon now....

[Pepperturbo]

@chippa13 Here in SOCA I've encountered way more accurate 300+ drivers at private clubs. Public play, however maybe two hand-fulls but most directionally challenged, 210yd is what's common.

[smashdn]

Except that Jack is now softening contours on greens and making them more receptive for... the members.

The members can certainly play the course set-up in a tournament fashion (not 2020 Memorial fashion though). But I bet they would rather take a ball peen to their temple than play that set up 52 weeks. 4" rough is fun to play said no one ever.

 

Regarding your first point, why not? There will certainly be some that want to play the tournament ball just because but that effects only them that choose to. Same as there are masochists who play the tips no matter what. I could hardly ever see a club having an event (other than a pro tournament) that would require a pro tournament conforming ball.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Yes, I’ve banished myself to the driving range.

Drove a 326 yard pin by rolling the cart path no doubt, hit into another player over a knoll with a 3W who should have been safe but I was too lazy to walk up 30 yards to see, missed all but 2 fairways and shot 92 that day. I did manage a few spectacular tap in pars, but generally horrible golf. Shot 90, 85, 79, 92 the past few months on the same course.

What’s further embarrassing was two beginners with whom we played 3 holes, sympathized with my horrible shots thinking I was a beginner like them. Grumble, grumble.

So, I decided to quit actual playing for the time being. Delegated myself to the driving range until this isolation mess is cleared enough that I can play regularly again.

[oikos1]

Wow. I've not heard this proposed before. Ever. Unplayable? Really?

All I've ever heard is the desire to get on a course before the tournament, and the heavy amount of play following a tournament. Members absolutely want a piece of the pro set up, even if they have to play from forward tees.

[Lincoln_Arcadia]

Exactly, “male psyche” is such a curious thing. “Forces” us to play what the professionals play no matter the consequences. I’m unfortunately not immune either. Hahaha!

[tigerstudent08]

ive had the pleasure of playing 2 days after a PGA event a couple times and what really stuck out to me was how much firmer and faster the greens were compared to normal course conditions. If you were short sided for an amateur you were screwed.

[Titleist99]

Member Love playing on Pro setups and deep down inside they want the pros to suffer....LOL! But to state that the course is unplayable after a tournament, is just one man's opinion.(his)

[smashdn]

Not sure that suffer is how I would describe it. I think it is a pride thing that they want their course to stand up to the pros and from a personal standpoint they want the pros to be hit with the same level of challenge that the member faces week in and week out. Realistically though a pro golfer would lackadaisically destroy a member course set up in normal day-to-day manner. It would be the most boring 60-61-62 you ever laid eyes upon.

[JCADDELL]

jealousy

[smashdn]

What does a 50 year old optomologist, scratch golfer have to be jealous of a pga tour pro? I think they want to see the shots and holes that are hard for the members to be hard for the pros too. That is a reasonable expectation I think.

[Pepperturbo]

If course setup and or conditions after, during or before a pro-level tournament are unplayable, it's only that way to people that lack skill or appreciation for the challenge. I know I am not alone when saying I really enjoy tournament conditions.

How do I benefit? My 245yrd + drivers get a great deal more run out. All I need to do is pay attention to proper landing areas so I can reap the benefits of extra yardage. Means I can play longer yardages and or score easier because I know how to take advantage of those conditions. Bunkers are typically padded and sand is not as deep or fluffy, easier to get closer to the ball and thump. If the ball is properly struck green holds, little or no ball marks, and they take spin. All that equals a better score for me.

I look to measure up to conditions I encounter, not the other way around. The only thing I'd adjust is tighten fairways in landing areas using penalizing rough for the top 12% of big hitters. Being a big hitter is fine as long as you can control your ball and land it in the fairway. Yesterday, we saw some PGA touring pros hit fairways while many others missed fairways and paid a dear price, that's the way its suppose to be.

[cxx]

I played on one of the TPC courses after a tournament and agree, The firm fast fairways rolled out, the rough was playable the greens were firm and rolled true. There was evidence of stress from the scalping and lack of water but there had been some rain since the tournament. Overall an excellent experience.