The PGA Tour has set a precedent. Will they have the balls to continue with it?

[Frankensteins Monster]

So the brass at the PGA Tour decided to flex it's fingers and put a stop watch to Loupe. Then the decided to give him a bad time for going over the 45 second rule. I'm OK with that and have zero problem with the bad time warning, BUT........................

 

Are they going to put Philly "Over Analysis" Mick on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him and Bones to decide if they're going to hit a regular 7 or a Pelz six? Are they going to put Philly Mick on the clock and give him a bad time when Phil reads the line of a putt and Bones stands over it for an eternity feeling the slope and reading it from a right hander's perspective? Are they going to put Jim "Zero Hour Energy" Furyk on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to decide on a putt's line and back off and go through his routine routine again? Are they going to put Tiger "Where's the wind coming from" Woods on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to throw grass in the air and figure out the wind is the same direction it was when they first got to the ball? Are they going to put Bubba "My caddy made me hit a bad shot" Watson on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to go through his routine when he hears a bird fart three fairways over and blames his caddy if the shot doesn't come off like it should have?

 

I'm pretty annoyed at the PGA Tour for making an example out of a rookie on tour in the first tournament where he's in contention. Good on him for settling down and playing decently after the initially shock and basically giving them the big middle finger.

[cinnepa]

here here, especially the fact about being in contention his first time ever. could have easily had a meeting post sunday round to discuss it with him for future events.

[golfcarte]

can you say, 'double standard'? no, no, no, no, and no.

[MadGolfer76]

Is this about insulting pros or about asking questions that could only end in "no?"

[PGArox]

Precedent? What precedent?

Five guys were put on the clock. We saw a three hour front nine. Zero penalty strokes.

In the last 25 years the TOUR has put 1,000 guys on the clock, and issued penalty strokes to three or four.

There was no precedent set yesterday.

[super20dan]

they need to put the stopwatch on putts simple as that.

[Vindog]

They only penalize AMs who can't defend themselves.

Kelly Tilghman was all over this after The Open.

[Frankensteins Monster]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1396268985' post='8985439']
Precedent? What precedent?

Five guys were put on the clock. We saw a three hour front nine. Zero penalty strokes.

In the last 25 years the TOUR has put 1,000 guys on the clock, and issued penalty strokes to three or four.

There was no precedent set yesterday.
[/quote]

There absolutely was a precedent set yesterday. The people I mentioned have most likely NEVER been given a bad time, nor made a scapegoat by the network. NBC is to blame here as well. And I can 100% guarantee none of the pros mentioned were even given a nudge to speed it up when they were in contention to win their first tournament and/or were rookies.

It's simple, the PGA Tour took it upon itself to make an example out of someone who would not cause much of a backlash because he's a rookie and he's a virtual unknown. If they wanted to make a point they should have given a bad time and made a spectacle out of it, like having the rules official 25 yards away holding out a stop watch like he's an executioner counting down the time to pull the handle, then they should target the bigger names who have been the cause of slow golf for the past 25 years.

[joey2aces]

maybe add a shot clock on the green once it's their turn. Then the gallery can start counting down at 6 like they do in college bball.

[bub72ck]

As much as everyone wants to feel like the PGA is an organization who is focused on giving millions to charity, advancing the game of golf and encouraging people to get out and play, they are a business and the guys who are out there grinding it out are in business. It's about making money. That's why you see Mr. Palmer (see other thread) is on a commercial saying "While we're young" yet they allow Tiger and Phil and Bubba and everyone else to take forever over every shot. If a precedent has been set or not really doesn't matter. In the end, the guys who make the most money for the tour are going to get more of a pass than somebody who is not making money for the tour. Just like the guy in the office who makes the most sales gets a pass over the guy who sits on his can all day.

[bruinsPATSirish]

[quote name='bub72ck' timestamp='1396270361' post='8985555']
As much as everyone wants to feel like the PGA is an organization who is focused on giving millions to charity, advancing the game of golf and encouraging people to get out and play, they are a business and the guys who are out there grinding it out are in business. It's about making money. That's why you see Mr. Palmer (see other thread) is on a commercial saying "While we're young" yet they allow Tiger and Phil and Bubba and everyone else to take forever over every shot. If a precedent has been set or not really doesn't matter. In the end, the guys who make the most money for the tour are going to get more of a pass than somebody who is not making money for the tour. Just like the guy in the office who makes the most sales gets a pass over the guy who sits on his can all day.
[/quote]

The USGA is doing the While Were Young campaign not the PGA Tour... and they already put Tiger in one video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTn-eoXDCkw

I just think it has to come to penalty strokes sooner than later. And I am not talking about a penalty stroke to the one Asian amateur in the field either...

[North Texas]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1396268985' post='8985439']
Precedent? What precedent?

Five guys were put on the clock. We saw a three hour front nine. Zero penalty strokes.

In the last 25 years the TOUR has put 1,000 guys on the clock, and issued penalty strokes to three or four.

There was no precedent set yesterday.
[/quote]

Completely agree with this. And agree with those who say there is a double standard. The "stars" don't even get put on the clock. Bottom line is slow play is not something the tour will ever do anything about because they do not believe it is that big of an issue. We believe it is but they don't.

[North Texas]

[quote name='bub72ck' timestamp='1396270361' post='8985555']
As much as everyone wants to feel like the PGA is an organization who is focused on giving millions to charity, advancing the game of golf and encouraging people to get out and play, they are a business and the guys who are out there grinding it out are in business. It's about making money. That's why you see Mr. Palmer (see other thread) is on a commercial saying "While we're young" yet they allow Tiger and Phil and Bubba and everyone else to take forever over every shot. If a precedent has been set or not really doesn't matter. In the end, the guys who make the most money for the tour are going to get more of a pass than somebody who is not making money for the tour. Just like the guy in the office who makes the most sales gets a pass over the guy who sits on his can all day.
[/quote]

bub72ck gets it.

[bu11dog]

[quote name='bub72ck' timestamp='1396270361' post='8985555']
As much as everyone wants to feel like the PGA is an organization who is focused on giving millions to charity, advancing the game of golf and encouraging people to get out and play, they are a business and the guys who are out there grinding it out are in business. It's about making money. That's why you see Mr. Palmer (see other thread) is on a commercial saying "While we're young" yet they allow Tiger and Phil and Bubba and everyone else to take forever over every shot. If a precedent has been set or not really doesn't matter. In the end, the guys who make the most money for the tour are going to get more of a pass than somebody who is not making money for the tour. Just like the guy in the office who makes the most sales gets a pass over the guy who sits on his can all day.
[/quote]

Are you saying that golf superstars get preferential treatment? Pffft...next you'll be telling me that the top players in the NBA get the benefit of the doubt from referees too.

[Sean2]

[quote name='PGArox' timestamp='1396268985' post='8985439']
Precedent? What precedent?

Five guys were put on the clock. We saw a three hour front nine. Zero penalty strokes.

In the last 25 years the TOUR has put 1,000 guys on the clock, and issued penalty strokes to three or four.

There was no precedent set yesterday.
[/quote]

I agree with this. The only tour that has set a precedent is the LPGA. They actually penalize players for slow play.

[bub72ck]

[quote name='bruinsPATSirish' timestamp='1396272401' post='8985739']
[quote name='bub72ck' timestamp='1396270361' post='8985555']
As much as everyone wants to feel like the PGA is an organization who is focused on giving millions to charity, advancing the game of golf and encouraging people to get out and play, they are a business and the guys who are out there grinding it out are in business. It's about making money. That's why you see Mr. Palmer (see other thread) is on a commercial saying "While we're young" yet they allow Tiger and Phil and Bubba and everyone else to take forever over every shot. If a precedent has been set or not really doesn't matter. In the end, the guys who make the most money for the tour are going to get more of a pass than somebody who is not making money for the tour. Just like the guy in the office who makes the most sales gets a pass over the guy who sits on his can all day.
[/quote]

The USGA is doing the While Were Young campaign not the PGA Tour... and they already put Tiger in one video

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTn-eoXDCkw[/media]

I just think it has to come to penalty strokes sooner than later. And I am not talking about a penalty stroke to the one Asian amateur in the field either...
[/quote]

It doesn't matter who is producing the commercials or who is in them. They can put Tiger in a commercial with cute kids and have a laugh but until they actually MAKE Tiger play faster it doesn't matter. The masses will do what the guys on TV do. If that's buy a white driver, play a Pro V-1, or take four years over a putt people think it will help them. It's the same as the metal spikes debate. The masses haven't been allowed to wear them for over a decade. A lot of the tour guys wear them to every event. Why? $$$$$$$$$$$$

This reminds me of a client of mine and a commercial they put out a few years ago. It's a car dealership. At the end of the commercial it shows the owner and he says "And remember, we are here to save you money!". No you're not. You're there to make a profit and sell cars. It may make people feel good that you are "saving them money" but if you can't make money you're going to do something else.

[Barto78]

[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1396268593' post='8985399']
So the brass at the PGA Tour decided to flex it's fingers and put a stop watch to Loupe. Then the decided to give him a bad time for going over the 45 second rule. I'm OK with that and have zero problem with the bad time warning, BUT........................

Are they going to put Philly "Over Analysis" Mick on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him and Bones to decide if they're going to hit a regular 7 or a Pelz six? Are they going to put Philly Mick on the clock and give him a bad time when Phil reads the line of a putt and Bones stands over it for an eternity feeling the slope and reading it from a right hander's perspective? Are they going to put Jim "Zero Hour Energy" Furyk on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to decide on a putt's line and back off and go through his routine routine again? Are they going to put Tiger "Where's the wind coming from" Woods on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to throw grass in the air and figure out the wind is the same direction it was when they first got to the ball? Are they going to put Bubba "My caddy made me hit a bad shot" Watson on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to go through his routine when he hears a bird fart three fairways over and blames his caddy if the shot doesn't come off like it should have?

I'm pretty annoyed at the PGA Tour for making an example out of a rookie on tour in the first tournament where he's in contention. Good on him for settling down and playing decently after the initially shock and basically giving them the big middle finger.
[/quote]

Frank, usually i agree with you, but it's not like Tiger, Phil, Jim, Bubba or the rest of those guys take forever on every single shot. I know what you're getting at, but i personally don't think the comparisons are relevant. Loupe is beyond slow and maybe the slow play issue will finally start being addressed by the tour.

[Barto78]

I wonder if the tour doesn't enforce the slow play rule because they secretly love the fact the tournament takes forever to play because it brings more value to their corporate sponsors who are purchasing air time?

[J - Mo]

It's one thing to take you time in making a decision when the hole isn't clear in front of you. In all of the examples you give, were the players a hole behind?

Slow play is an issue, but as already stated, the Tour isn't going to do anything until the players force them to do something.

If you want to see players react, for the first offense put them on the clock and if they don't' maintain the pace penalize them a stroke. Following that initial penalty if there is an offense in other time in the year, put them on the clock and if they don't maintain take away FedEx cup points.

[J - Mo]

[quote name='Barto78' timestamp='1396276053' post='8986187']
I wonder if the tour doesn't enforce the slow play rule because they secretly love the fact the tournament takes forever to play because it brings more value to their corporate sponsors who are purchasing air time?
[/quote]

I think you are correct. And as I said, unless the players force them to do something I doubt the Tour will do anything other than make a show of it to look as though they care.

[Frankensteins Monster]

[quote name='Barto78' timestamp='1396274803' post='8986025']
[quote name='Frankensteins Monster' timestamp='1396268593' post='8985399']
So the brass at the PGA Tour decided to flex it's fingers and put a stop watch to Loupe. Then the decided to give him a bad time for going over the 45 second rule. I'm OK with that and have zero problem with the bad time warning, BUT........................

Are they going to put Philly "Over Analysis" Mick on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him and Bones to decide if they're going to hit a regular 7 or a Pelz six? Are they going to put Philly Mick on the clock and give him a bad time when Phil reads the line of a putt and Bones stands over it for an eternity feeling the slope and reading it from a right hander's perspective? Are they going to put Jim "Zero Hour Energy" Furyk on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to decide on a putt's line and back off and go through his routine routine again? Are they going to put Tiger "Where's the wind coming from" Woods on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to throw grass in the air and figure out the wind is the same direction it was when they first got to the ball? Are they going to put Bubba "My caddy made me hit a bad shot" Watson on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to go through his routine when he hears a bird fart three fairways over and blames his caddy if the shot doesn't come off like it should have?

I'm pretty annoyed at the PGA Tour for making an example out of a rookie on tour in the first tournament where he's in contention. Good on him for settling down and playing decently after the initially shock and basically giving them the big middle finger.
[/quote]

Frank, usually i agree with you, but it's not like Tiger, Phil, Jim, Bubba or the rest of those guys take forever on every single shot. I know what you're getting at, but i personally don't think the comparisons are relevant. Loupe is beyond slow and maybe the slow play issue will finally start being addressed by the tour.
[/quote]

Phil takes minutes on putts and shots. I've seen him in person many a time and he's s snail. Tiger doesn't always become a wind wizard but he does fairly often. I'm not sure anybody on tour takes 40 seconds to hit a shot but the ones mentioned above are slow. The cameras don't show it.

Loupe is slow but she should not have been made an example of given the circumstances. NBC and Roger Maltby should be ashamed they didn't do what they normally do when slow as a snail top tier players are discussing a shot, go to another golfer and never point it out and a big middle finger to the PGA Tour for handling it the way they did and making an example out of someone like Loupe, first time near the top to win and a rookie.

[Frankensteins Monster]

[quote name='J - Mo' timestamp='1396276131' post='8986201']
It's one thing to take you time in making a decision when the hole isn't clear in front of you. In all of the examples you give, were the players a hole behind?
[/quote]

The final group was not behind at any point yesterday I believe.

[Frankensteins Monster]

[quote name='Barto78' timestamp='1396276053' post='8986187']
I wonder if the tour doesn't enforce the slow play rule because they secretly love the fact the tournament takes forever to play because it brings more value to their corporate sponsors who are purchasing air time?
[/quote]

The slower Tiger or Phil round is the more Cialis commercials they can fit in.

[Barto78]

Someone clarify something for me, as i'm not 100% up to speed on the rule, but only after you've been given a bad time due you then have 40 seconds to hit your shot....Correct?

If the above is the rule, then how long do you have to hit your shot before you're given a bad time and the 40 second rule kicks in?

[HoffTTM]

[quote name='Barto78' timestamp='1396276881' post='8986301']
Someone clarify something for me, as i'm not 100% up to speed on the rule, but only after you've been given a bad time due you then have 40 seconds to hit your shot....Correct?

If the above is the rule, then how long do you have to hit your shot before you're given a bad time and the 40 second rule kicks in?
[/quote]

You have to first be "out of position" (not sure what the tours definition is). Once you are the referee can put you on the clock. Then he starts timing shots and the 40 second thing isn't really cut and dry as there is additional time for the first person to hit the tee shot, first one to approach, first guy playing a shot around the green etc.

[PGArox]

The only precedent we saw yesterday was the three hour front nine. I've never seen that before on the PGA TOUR.

[bub72ck]

[quote name='Barto78' timestamp='1396276881' post='8986301']
Someone clarify something for me, as i'm not 100% up to speed on the rule, but only after you've been given a bad time due you then have 40 seconds to hit your shot....Correct?

If the above is the rule, then how long do you have to hit your shot before you're given a bad time and the 40 second rule kicks in?
[/quote]

It has to do with being "out of position". If your group falls more than a certain amount of time behind the group in front or if you fall off of the USGA allotted time frame the group is put "on the clock". That's when the 40 seconds comes into play.

The problem is the entire tour (with the exception of a few fast players) has become slow so players often don't become out of position. These guys are paid to shoot the lowest scores they can. They are not paid to shoot the lowest scores in a specific time frame. Until they are required to make that modification or suffer financial loss, they will continue to play slow.

[PGArox]

For the record, Phil Mickelson has been put on the clock before.

[cphrey]

I don't quite agree with everything you said, but the following line was epic!

"My caddy made me hit a bad shot" Watson on the clock and give him a bad time for the MINUTES it takes him to go through his routine when he hears a bird fart three fairways over and blames his caddy if the shot doesn't come off like it should have?


Bubba is the worst at blaming his caddy for EVERYTHING, and I hate it!

[SteelPride]

[quote name='J - Mo' timestamp='1396276234' post='8986223']
[quote name='Barto78' timestamp='1396276053' post='8986187']
I wonder if the tour doesn't enforce the slow play rule because they secretly love the fact the tournament takes forever to play because it brings more value to their corporate sponsors who are purchasing air time?
[/quote]

I think you are correct. And as I said, unless the players force them to do something I doubt the Tour will do anything other than make a show of it to look as though they care.
[/quote]

I think this is exactly right. I don't watch golf live anymore. The commercial to golf shot ratio these days seems like 1:1. It's absolutely pathetic and it has made me appreciate my TiVo even more.