Japan Market

[tmcnulty30]

Why is it that Japan has a much larger variety of clubs? For example the legacy blacks... Or the forged Ap1... Why don't the manufacturers offer that type of equipment in the states?

[thatboygaule]

Go to the JDM forum...

[phizzy30]

Golfers in asia are generally willing to spend a lot more on golf clubs than Americans. It's a status thing.

[youngwaldo]

They want to look good with awesome products...wait thats like everyone here...they are willing to pay for forged and exotic clubs..

Wk

[stevopagolf]

Right now the dollar is very strong so the prices are actually much more reasonable. $1 is like 117 Yen.
There is no forged AP1 in Japan only in Korea. However the VG3 is pretty much right between the AP1 and AP2.

[Free swingr]

[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1416758204' post='10491627']
Golfers in asia are generally willing to spend a lot more on golf clubs than Americans. It's a status thing.
[/quote]

This is it. ^^^

It's definitely a status thing. Guys over there will spend 10,000 on a set of Miura's with gold plating and fancy badges. I heard they even use pure diamond dust to dial in proper swing weight. Lol. Jk.

It's purely a status thing. I've seen Japanese guys walk into Edwin Watts and not know a golf club from apple butter and buy 3,000.00 dollars worth of clubs. I heard one asking the club builder if he had a Japanese shaft, the one that is orange. He was talking about an ad di. The guy had no idea about golf but wanted the high dollar Japanese shaft because that was the most expensive thing they had. I remember just shaking my head and thinking WTF. Lol

[Rbel]

Yep, most definitely a higher end more selective market. Status is key

[Bigmean]

People that play Japanese clubs just do so to waste money on the same exact thing that you can get from Edwin watts and just want to look cool with clubs that say "forged" on them when we all know cast stainless is what really lowers scores.

[bananaezgo]

I believe part of the answer lies in the Japanese golfer. I work for Toyota and we have Japanese advisors and coordinators that rotate into the states at 3 year intervals. They can not get enough of our golf and play whenever possible. CHEAP golf in Japan is $150 and up and there are few able to play as much as they would like. They do get to hit balls some. Also the Japanese don't collect cheap stuff. They would much prefer to save for what they truly desire than to buy lesser quality and this is for all things.

[Free swingr]

[quote name='bananaezgo' timestamp='1416800141' post='10494709']
I believe part of the answer lies in the Japanese golfer. I work for Toyota and we have Japanese advisors and coordinators that rotate into the states at 3 year intervals. They can not get enough of our golf and play whenever possible. CHEAP golf in Japan is $150 and up and there are few able to play as much as they would like. They do get to hit balls some. Also the Japanese don't collect cheap stuff. They would much prefer to save for what they truly desire than to buy lesser quality and this is for all things.
[/quote]


I see about the same at my club. The Japanese that are members play golf every chance they get. Hit the ball, run to the cart and speed after it. No pace of play issues with those guys.

I didn't mean to imply with my first post that all Japenese know nothing about golf and just buy the biggest price tag. I don't know if it came off that way or not but I thought I should clarify. I know there are tons of very good Japanese players. I do however see novice Japanese with clubs way out of there league though. That just goes along with the status thing. If you have the cash to blow and you want the best, why not I guess? Anyway just wanted to be clear that I'm not bashing anything, it's just what I've noticed.

I do know this though. Almost all the Japanese at my club play lightning fast. Most of them seriously run back to the cart after hitting. If everybody played half as fast as they do all the club members at my club wouldn't constantly b**** about slow play. Lol

[Oldplayer]

I would imagine that golf is still an elitist pastime in Japan so it follows that those who play are wealthy and are able to pay more than the rest of us would contemplate for equipment. As has been stated their possessions indicate status so the equipment companies can ask high prices and still sell plenty of product. Top price is always dictated by what the market will bear.

[slimeone]

It's a zany market. JDM Jetspeed drivers were selling retail for $400 back in August. $400 for a Jetspeed! lol!

[Free swingr]

[quote name='slimeone' timestamp='1416816291' post='10495405']
It's a zany market. JDM Jetspeed drivers were selling retail for $400 back in August. $400 for a Jetspeed! lol!
[/quote]

That's just crazy to me. I would charge 400 too though if the Japanese were willing to buy it.

I would like to see some data on the JDM market vs American market and what Japanese spend annually compared to Americans.

[dmblanch]

Agree on the crazy status thing and the fanaticism of the Japanese golfer. Ya gotta love them. When in grad school, no matter when I wanted to play and no matter how short the notice, all I had to do is call my three Japanese friends and I'd have instant foursome. They all sucked, but would play 24/7 if they could. Every time out was christmas to them.

On the subject of JDM clubs, the prices really aren't jacked much at all now. Custom Mizuno Yoro craft irons are $1200 from TourSpec. Many other irons are basically comparable. I don't care much for any JDM driver or wood, but some of those forged irons are pretty sweet hitters.

[rbhan12]

If I'm not mistaken, golf is doing very well in Asia, namely Japan, China, Korea, etc...having more selection there would make sense for a place where there's a lot of buyers. My understanding about golf in Japan, and in China from people I've spoken to, is that it's very much a rich man's game, more so than in the US. Combine those factors together and you have the Japan Domestic Market!

[ChristopherMcDonald]

As everyone has mentioned it is a status thing. If you are into golf, and are not rich (in Korea anyways) you will be most likely practicing a lot and playing very little. They have tons of driving ranges and stuff but rounds are $200+ most everywhere you go so it's still very much a rich mans sport as mentioned above.

[phizzy30]

[quote name='ChristopherMcDonald' timestamp='1416864662' post='10497949']
As everyone has mentioned it is a status thing. If you are into golf, and are not rich (in Korea anyways) you will be most likely practicing a lot and playing very little. They have tons of driving ranges and stuff but rounds are $200+ most everywhere you go so it's still very much a rich mans sport as mentioned above.
[/quote]

I can attest to this personally. The Koreans are crazy about golf and only the upper class can pay to play. One of my father's business's was located in Seoul. He bought a membership at some fancy country club about 90 minutes away from the city. My family would take annual trips out there for vacation back in the day and we would golf twice a week. I remember him telling me he had to pay some outrageous green fees for his clients whenever he took them out. Caddies are mandatory and are all female. I took a peek at the golf bags a few times and everything was high end, exotic JDM equipment worth several thousand dollars. The golfing experience in asian countries in general, is totally different and very costly. The Koreans, Chinese and Japanese are more than willing to shell out big bucks to buy expensive clubs and play at these exclusive courses. Status is emphasized more so over there than here.

[KrazyTrain18]

The Asian market will always have expensive exclusive products as long as the market warrants them. It's fact that their consumers are willing to spend more on golf equipment than anywhere else.

[Soloman1]

US golf market is about $US 5.3 billion for 316 million people.
Japan golf market is about $US 3.5 billion for 127 million people.

Japanese are no more influenced by "status" when making a buying decision than any other culture. They're more influenced by quality and reputation of quality of a product. Japanese homes are sparsely furnished with high quality products. Most Japanese have an aesthetic sense of elegant simplicity. There is some flashy stuff, but it's more about having a chance to break out of the drudgery of a very conservative work culture with their hobby.

Anyway, if you think it's to show off to others and be gaudy, you have the wrong image.

[Vegaman]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1416913549' post='10500437']
US golf market is about $US 5.3 billion for 316 million people.
Japan golf market is about $US 3.5 billion for 127 million people.

Japanese are no more influenced by "status" when making a buying decision than any other culture. They're more influenced by quality and reputation of quality of a product. Japanese homes are sparsely furnished with high quality products. Most Japanese have an aesthetic sense of elegant simplicity. There is some flashy stuff, but it's more about having a chance to break out of the drudgery of a very conservative work culture with their hobby.

Anyway, if you think it's to show off to others and be gaudy, you have the wrong image.
[/quote]

And this is exactly the truth. In Japan, people really value quality and craftsmanship. They appreciate that the best materials have been used. And this goes for [i]everything, [/i]not only golf.

[phizzy30]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1416913549' post='10500437']
US golf market is about $US 5.3 billion for 316 million people.
Japan golf market is about $US 3.5 billion for 127 million people.

Japanese are no more influenced by "status" when making a buying decision than any other culture. They're more influenced by quality and reputation of quality of a product. Japanese homes are sparsely furnished with high quality products. Most Japanese have an aesthetic sense of elegant simplicity. There is some flashy stuff, but it's more about having a chance to break out of the drudgery of a very conservative work culture with their hobby.

Anyway, if you think it's to show off to others and be gaudy, you have the wrong image.
[/quote]

ORLY? I am Korean and have friends in Japan. I had to stay in Tokyo for 2 years for work many years ago. I've had the opportunity to interact with their society and have seen first hand how each class lives. Their culture is not all that different from mine. The upper class lives a gaudy lifestyle for the most part. They drive their fancy cars, sport around their 6 figure cars and golf every chance they get. Their golf bags have nothing but the top of the line JDM equipment. So, yes, I would say they highly value status as most asian cultures do. While they do value quality, they also emphasize status. I have to add that they are highly industrious and hard working as well.

[FairwayGolfUSA.com]

Japan products are in our (US) favor with the current exchange rates!
Japanese people love brand name products. They also like quality, craftsmanship and the story that comes with the brand.

When one thing becomes hot, everyone wants to have it.

I see several reasons why Japanese golf equipment could be more expensive:

1. Japanese golf manufacturers reject a lot more heads due to tight tolerance in quality control. Thus per head cost is higher.
2. Fewer golfers in Japan compared to US. In order for Japanese companies to be profitable, they have to charge more per unit to operate.
3. Japanese people tend to think "you pay more for better product/experience".

But a lot has changed over the years and golf is more affordable in Japan now in both play and equipment.

Now with this favorable exchange rate, it feels that you are getting a discount on Japanese golf clubs!

If you are looking for Japanese equipment, please let us know!

JD (yes, I am Japanese)

[freehb]

We're finally getting somewhere in this thread. If you haven't been to japan and spent time with the people, made friends and developed a frame of reference, you should probably stop typing the first thing that comes into your brain...as an FYI to some of the precious posters, that's what idiots do.

The last few posters (fwy golf, Solomon and McDonald) made some salient points...after spending time in japan, making friends and developing an appreciation for their culture I have come to believe there are things we can learn from them about being happy, enjoying life and value (vice versa as well). We live in a very disposable society in the USA...not everyone thinks that way....open your minds people...we all are capable of seeing only a fraction of what is there....

[Soloman1]

I'm in the golf business and have lived in Japan for almost 23 years. I probably know a little bit about it.

[phizzy30]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1417268650' post='10517101']
I'm in the golf business and have lived in Japan for almost 23 years. I probably know a little bit about it.
[/quote]
[quote name='freehb' timestamp='1417265960' post='10517031']
We're finally getting somewhere in this thread. If you haven't been to japan and spent time with the people, made friends and developed a frame of reference, you should probably stop typing the first thing that comes into your brain...as an FYI to some of the precious posters, that's what idiots do.

The last few posters (fwy golf, Solomon and McDonald) made some salient points...after spending time in japan, making friends and developing an appreciation for their culture I have come to believe there are things we can learn from them about being happy, enjoying life and value (vice versa as well). We live in a very disposable society in the USA...not everyone thinks that way....open your minds people...we all are capable of seeing only a fraction of what is there....
[/quote]

Last time I checked it's perfectly fine to have differing views and opinions. Soloman and I apparentliy disagree about this topic. It's not a big deal. We can all be adults about this and have productive debates, can we not?

[freehb]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1417268650' post='10517101']
I'm in the golf business and have lived in Japan for almost 23 years. I probably know a little bit about it.
[/quote]

You get it bro...I like the whole concept of funtional artistry...treasures instead of things...sure some of it is still overpriced bit there are some real jdm values out there like the new onoffs on rakuten....I think the currency situation is going to get better for us before it gets worse...could see some very interesting products that compete on a global level come out and maybe some of the ha83rs will become believers....

[freehb]

Would love to see both romaro and epon aggressively compete for the highish end, value buyer here...they could do it with a weak yen and a quality product that serves both markets...perhaps epons new LFD line is a move in that direction...I would think if romaro would drop their margin in half from rakuten level (make some of that up by bulk shipping and a distribution deal for some floors pace) I can't see why they wouldn't bet viewed as a really cool upgrade over the same guys who turn their tmag/nike/tity bags ever year and a half...double your gear life cycle to 3 years and you've got your money back...

Solomon, u think romaro could move some product hear if the made a financial commitment and worked out a big brand sore deal?

[Soloman1]

[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1416931785' post='10501321']
ORLY? I am Korean and have friends in Japan. I had to stay in Tokyo for 2 years for work many years ago. I've had the opportunity to interact with their society and have seen first hand how each class lives. Their culture is not all that different from mine. The upper class lives a gaudy lifestyle for the most part. They drive their fancy cars, sport around their 6 figure cars and golf every chance they get. Their golf bags have nothing but the top of the line JDM equipment. So, yes, I would say they highly value status as most asian cultures do. While they do value quality, they also emphasize status. I have to add that they are highly industrious and hard working as well.
[/quote]

Tokyo is not all of Japan, just like the US is not all like New York City. Tokyo is the business and financial hub and capital, so there's more money in Tokyo. Japan has a higher standard of living than most places, so one person's idea of rich is another person's normal.

Fancy cars? Of course the wealthy anywhere will drive more expensive cars. Do you expect poor people to drive 6-figure cars? But, I still don't see that many Lamborghini's... Toyota is the #1 brand.

XXIO is the #1 club brand in Japan and it's not "top of the line" gear, so bags are not "filled with nothing but top of the line."

You overstated almost everything with a broad, and incorrect, brush.

-----------

I don't see any way Romaro could or would do that. There simply isn't enough of a market for it anywhere in the west. Cutting margins is like cutting your throat for boutique brands.

[phizzy30]

[quote name='Soloman1' timestamp='1417296818' post='10518563']
[quote name='phizzy30' timestamp='1416931785' post='10501321']
ORLY? I am Korean and have friends in Japan. I had to stay in Tokyo for 2 years for work many years ago. I've had the opportunity to interact with their society and have seen first hand how each class lives. Their culture is not all that different from mine. The upper class lives a gaudy lifestyle for the most part. They drive their fancy cars, sport around their 6 figure cars and golf every chance they get. Their golf bags have nothing but the top of the line JDM equipment. So, yes, I would say they highly value status as most asian cultures do. While they do value quality, they also emphasize status. I have to add that they are highly industrious and hard working as well.
[/quote]

Tokyo is not all of Japan, just like the US is not all like New York City. Tokyo is the business and financial hub and capital, so there's more money in Tokyo. Japan has a higher standard of living than most places, so one person's idea of rich is another person's normal.

Fancy cars? Of course the wealthy anywhere will drive more expensive cars. Do you expect poor people to drive 6-figure cars? But, I still don't see that many Lamborghini's... Toyota is the #1 brand.

XXIO is the #1 club brand in Japan and it's not "top of the line" gear, so bags are not "filled with nothing but top of the line."

You overstated almost everything with a broad, and incorrect, brush.

-----------

I don't see any way Romaro could or would do that. There simply isn't enough of a market for it anywhere in the west. Cutting margins is like cutting your throat for boutique brands.
[/quote]

Whatever you say guy. I was talking about the upper class in Japan, not lower or middle. People who can afford to golf in Japan(upper class) do not mostly drive Toyotas, they drive BMW, Benz, Lexus, Bentley, Porsche, etc. Parking lot was lined full of luxury cars. The Toyotas and Nissans were driven by the employees. XXIO(still very good quality) may not be the top brand in Japan, but I've seen plenty of bags full of honmas, OnOff(Diawa), and Miura.

[freehb]

Sure but I don't see a drastic a difference in classes when it comes to golf in japan. The preference for quality and customization in japan is as broad as the market. yes, rounds are expensive and there are prob few played per capita but there's a lot of practice and I know a lot of middle / upper middle class people who get at least 3 rounds a month and 6 or 7 practice sessions a month...not that much less golf really, just less on course time...even the middle class players I know appreciate their gear...there are the Honma types who love the $8k sets of irons but u have the "tour issue" crowd in the us as well...

Phizzy, this aggression will not stand...man...

Jk bro, always cool to disagree and don't mean to be condescending...appreciate your differing views bro...it's all good...usdm....jdm...gear is awesome and I think all of us here can find common ground in the fact that we love playing and we love our gear...