How to fix closed club face at impact

[Chicago Lefty]

Looking for a little advice here. I'm a 2 handicap and this year, and previous years, my misses have been pulls, hooks and pull hooks. I was recently on a Trackman and found out the reason. I attack the ball from the inside, however I do it with a closed club face consistently. My club path ranges from -1 to -3 degrees (remember I am a lefty and that is in/out) but my face to path ranges from 1 to 2.5 (closed). I always kind of thought I cut across the ball and that was why I had these misses, however the proof is in the numbers. Posting a swing video as well, there are few others on my YouTube channel as well. I've tried simple fixes like a weaker grip and feeling like I'm hitting a fade to leave the face more open at impact but I'd really like to know the root cause and fix it this off season. Thx for suggestions.

 

[TB07]

So pretty good move. Ultimately you will need arms more forward and extended, (could confirm/see this more with face on) and in unison with the body rotating. This will keep face more stable. You can't get there right now because arms get buried behind you in the backswing.

[craniac24]

Is that the White Pines golf dome by any chance?

[MonteScheinblum]

Arm swing too long and never catch up.

[Chicago Lefty]

Thx TB07.

Yes, white pines.

Thanks Monte, I was kind of hoping you would chime in. So basically shorten up the backswing? The weird thing is when I take what I consider a 3/4 backswing, probably closer to the proper length backswing, if I don't concentrate on getting my hips through the hooks get worse.

[Reasonability]

CL,

You're already hearing from some of the best of the best. Feel free to completely discount my lowly inputs since its more a case of golfer reaching out to golfer rather than credentialed instructor serving up comments here.

The two or three things I keep going back to in your video are:

1. At the point going back when your right wrist is passing through your left breast - right there the right wrist is cupped and the shaft is starting to look a little flat. Were it me personally, I'd stick a tee in the butt end of the handle and some sort of hotel room key or credit card just under the gloved hand so that it bridges the top of the lead wrist. Then when swinging I'd get that tee to trace a line more along the target line and use the card on the back of the wrist to feel how and when the lead wrist breaks down a little. Once that much is up and running - should you happen to be seeing poor shots - THEN at that point it may be time to revisit the grip itself to make sure your numbers line up clubface squareness-wise.

2. Maybe its just me, but it appears that the hands and handle are running a little bit away from the sternum a little bit too much and too early.

3. Again, perhaps its personal preference here driving what I see - but it almost looks like you're a touch too much out over your toes and your shoulder turn is a bit too flat.

Again - no harm no foul if you opt to laugh this one off. You're getting inputs from those who have earned and deserve better attention than this mess. Hope its taken in the spirit its giving and best to you with your game and the upcoming holidays.

PS - I would have to assume your misses aren't too bad if you're a 2. That and you probably own a fantastic short game. Would love to learn from you about the scoring clubs - Would bet you have a lot game there.

[Chicago Lefty]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1418521729' post='10589971']
So pretty good move. Ultimately you will need arms more forward and extended, (could confirm/see this more with face on) and in unison with the body rotating. This will keep face more stable. You can't get there right now because arms get buried behind you in the backswing.
[/quote]

When you say forward and extended, I know I collapse a bit, but in unsure what you mean by forward.

Here is a face on view, unfortunately it is only a SW, and I have the biggest issues with mid to long irons. I'll try your get a better FO with a mid iron this week.

http://youtu.be/c39_ESM4Oew

[Chicago Lefty]

Thx Reasonability. My short game is decent and I can get hot with the putter. I'm probably over exaggerating how bad the misses are (difference of GIR and just off the green) but they are frustrating and the difference between being able to drop the last couple strokes I'd like to.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1418521729' post='10589971']
So pretty good move. Ultimately you will need arms more forward and extended, (could confirm/see this more with face on) and in unison with the body rotating. This will keep face more stable. You can't get there right now because arms get buried behind you in the backswing.
[/quote]

Yeah he is pretty much pinning the arms behind like the old stack and tilt pattern

[golfnff]

Unrelated to the hook, but looks like your a bit narrow at the top of your swing. I would get the feeling that you are pushing your left arm outward (away from your body) at the top. This should also help shorten up your swing a bit like Monte suggested and synch things up a bit better

[TB07]

[quote name='Chicago Lefty' timestamp='1418569457' post='10591597']
[quote name='TB07' timestamp='1418521729' post='10589971']
So pretty good move. Ultimately you will need arms more forward and extended, (could confirm/see this more with face on) and in unison with the body rotating. This will keep face more stable. You can't get there right now because arms get buried behind you in the backswing.
[/quote]

When you say forward and extended, I know I collapse a bit, but in unsure what you mean by forward.

Here is a face on view, unfortunately it is only a SW, and I have the biggest issues with mid to long irons. I'll try your get a better FO with a mid iron this week.

http://youtu.be/c39_ESM4Oew
[/quote]

Hands/arms further forward at impact, more towards right side. That's why with this short iron ball position is so far back.

[Chicago Lefty]

TB07, I do play my shorter clubs middle to a ball back in my stance, depending on the ball flight I am trying to achieve. For the sake of argument here is a still frame of impact from that video. I believe I am ahead at impact even if the ball was a little forward?

One other thing I stumbled over today while reading various threads is club face at address. I tend to be square to the target, which may even result in closed as I often feel my shoulders are closed to the target line. I wonder if addressing the ball with a slightly open club face would make a small difference in a degree or two at impact. Again just a band aid of course.

I've been working on balance and widening at the top, obviously still need to work on the widening portion.

[TB07]

So yes hands are ahead of ball but not far enough forward in relation to right leg. If ball position was off right ear, club head would have to flip past hands to catch the ball. Ball position should be more forward and Hands should be closer to mid right thigh at impact. To achieve ultimately will need shorter arm swing going back.

[Chicago Lefty]

Got to the dome tonight and took a couple videos. Focused on shortening and extending (counterintuitive?) my backswing. Still struggled with closing the face unless I really concentrate on starting my lower body aggressively from the top. Any additional ideas on how to slow the closing short of hanging on with the hands?

I apologize for the portrait orientation on the videos...my buddy took them and I didn't realize it until we left.

http://youtu.be/NGqljPBRNtQ

[sonofagunn]

Double check the accuracy of your alignment. Pick your line, setup to the ball, then lay your club shaft in front of the ball exactly on your target line is while your feet are still in your setup position. Leave the club there, then step back behind the ball and get real low and see if your club shaft is exactly on your target line. You might find it pointing right a little bit.

[Ri_Redneck]

I hate to say it, but I would weaken the right hand grip about 1/16" and swing away.

BT

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1418850347' post='10608527']
I hate to say it, but I would weaken the right hand grip about 1/16" and swing away.

BT
[/quote]

I was wondering if his left hand grip was a bit strong

( face on view he posted 3 days ago )

[Chicago Lefty]

Thx for the feedback. I've played with the grip a bit, but it seems to be negligible at best.
I think some misses start at the lower body. A combination of a bad lower back, lack of flexibility and getting out over my toes leads to my left hip moving towards the ball. Lately I have created better space for my hands and club to move through but I'm still not happy with the way my hips move through. I almost have to think about getting on my heels as a trigger to start my swing and keep from moving out over my toes. Similar to the way Kuchar starts his swing it seems, he just does a far better job staying back and clearing.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1418851951' post='10608671']
[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1418850347' post='10608527']
I hate to say it, but I would weaken the right hand grip about 1/16" and swing away.

BT
[/quote]

I was wondering if his left hand grip was a bit strong

( face on view he posted 3 days ago )
[/quote]

Yes...left hand needs to be weaker, not right

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418923703' post='10612309']
[quote name='HitEmTrue' timestamp='1418851951' post='10608671']
[quote name='Ri_Redneck' timestamp='1418850347' post='10608527']
I hate to say it, but I would weaken the right hand grip about 1/16" and swing away.

BT
[/quote]

I was wondering if his left hand grip was a bit strong

( face on view he posted 3 days ago )
[/quote]

Yes...left hand needs to be weaker, not right
[/quote]

Theoretically, if he places his hands together the same way (will feel the same), they will both be a tad weaker and the clubface will be slightly more open a impact.

Of course, we haven't even started discussing his Gamma Twerk yet!!

BT

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='Chicago Lefty' timestamp='1418779319' post='10603639']
Got to the dome tonight and took a couple videos. Focused on shortening and extending (counterintuitive?) my backswing. Still struggled with closing the face unless I really concentrate on starting my lower body aggressively from the top. Any additional ideas on how to slow the closing short of hanging on with the hands?

I apologize for the portrait orientation on the videos...my buddy took them and I didn't realize it until we left.

http://youtu.be/NGqljPBRNtQ
[/quote]

Hey chicago, that's one of the tendencies of having a more rounded flat swing like yours, hands get pretty deep and arms on shoulder plane or below. Too much arc on the circle, will struggle with pushes one day, hooks another and straight pulls others. It's the reason hardy wants his players to come down steep and left with punch elbow,

[Chicago Lefty]

Why do I feel like you're talking about me, not at me, and I'm in the room? lol

And wtf is a gamma twerk?

[Chicago Lefty]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418927074' post='10612577']Hey chicago, that's one of the tendencies of having a more rounded flat swing like yours, hands get pretty deep and arms on shoulder plane or below. Too much arc on the circle, will struggle with pushes one day, hooks another and straight pulls others. It's the reason hardy wants his players to come down steep and left with punch elbow,
[/quote]

I am/was a Hardy guy originally. I've moved a little away from that and just trying to find what works best for me rather than fit into a certain mold.

[MK7Golf21]

Also wanted to add the hardy downswing swinging left almost over the top a bit slows down the club face closure and fixes the path from being too in to in.

I got to the point of being really good with it, gives you a straightish, slight fade tendency that's easy to compete with, I played some good golf with it, I just didn't like the look of it and moved on after a few lessons. But I am stuck on the fade biased miss though, just so much easier to compete with

[Chicago Lefty]

[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418927787' post='10612641']
Also wanted to add the hardy downswing swinging left almost over the top a bit slows down the club face closure and fixes the path from being too in to in.

I got to the point of being really good with it, gives you a straightish, slight fade tendency that's easy to compete with, I played some good golf with it, I just didn't like the look of it and moved on after a few lessons. But I am stuck on the fade biased miss though, just so much easier to compete with
[/quote]

Swinging hard to the left works for me when I'm fresh, but when I get tired or my back starts hurting, my lower body stalls and the misses go from missing fairways and greens to far worse. I'm trying to work towards something that will work when those situations arrive...

[HitEmTrue]

[quote name='Chicago Lefty' timestamp='1418927090' post='10612579']
Why do I feel like you're talking about me, not at me, and I'm in the room? lol
[/quote]

Sorry, I thought you had gone to the restroom.

[MK7Golf21]

[quote name='Chicago Lefty' timestamp='1418779319' post='10603639']
Got to the dome tonight and took a couple videos. Focused on shortening and extending (counterintuitive?) my backswing. Still struggled with closing the face unless I really concentrate on starting my lower body aggressively from the top. Any additional ideas on how to slow the closing short of hanging on with the hands?

I apologize for the portrait orientation on the videos...my buddy took them and I didn't realize it until we left.

http://youtu.be/NGqljPBRNtQ
[/quote]

[quote name='Chicago Lefty' timestamp='1418928487' post='10612707']
[quote name='Redjeep83' timestamp='1418927787' post='10612641']
Also wanted to add the hardy downswing swinging left almost over the top a bit slows down the club face closure and fixes the path from being too in to in.

I got to the point of being really good with it, gives you a straightish, slight fade tendency that's easy to compete with, I played some good golf with it, I just didn't like the look of it and moved on after a few lessons. But I am stuck on the fade biased miss though, just so much easier to compete with
[/quote]

Swinging hard to the left works for me when I'm fresh, but when I get tired or my back starts hurting, my lower body stalls and the misses go from missing fairways and greens to far worse. I'm trying to work towards something that will work when those situations arrive...
[/quote]

Yea I hear you. Go for very nuetral positions, think of what Tiger is trying to do

[Chicago Lefty]

Just for fun here's a picture of my back from yesterday...I've been playing like this for about 4 years.

[Albatross85]

Maybe a dumb question but have you checked your lie angles? You get pretty flat going back and at the top. Perhaps your clubs are too upright?

[Ri_Redneck]

[quote name='Chicago Lefty' timestamp='1418927090' post='10612579']
Why do I feel like you're talking about me, not at me, and I'm in the room? lol

And wtf is a gamma twerk?
[/quote]

Sorry, I was talking to the other guys about you. Didn't realize you were here.

Some guy posted about Gama Torque in a swing thread a week or so ago and everyone cut loose on him. It finally got down to Twerking videos. It was ugly.

Anyway, I'm just of the mindset that if I can make a slight change in my grip to change the FA at impact, it would be better than jacking with my swing.

BT