if your going to gamble - know the rules

[golfernut78]

WTF!?!!?!

so i'm playing today as a single and get paired up with a 3 some. seemed that it was a son visiting from out of the country, father and good friend of the son. the friend was just an absolute ****** bag. he was loud, annoying, thought he knew everything, keep saying how good he was or how much better he was than that shot. the guy was even rude to his friend and friend's father.

anyways, on one the last par 5's, he was getting real cocky and starts asking if anyone wants to bet. all day he has been hit or miss with the driver so i decide to take him up on it. he hits an unholy of a drive down the right side. this thing must have gone 350-400 yards - HUGE!!!! and has 7 iron into the green. now i was not as long took 3 shots to get on the green and he was on in 2. i've got 30 feet for birdie, and he has 20 feet for eagle. i two putt for par and he two putts for birdie. soon as he hits his birdie putt he says "where's my money?". i told him "what money? you owe me - you forfeited the hole."

on his first putt he came up to the green picked up his ball - without marking it - wipes it off and then tosses a marker in the vicinity of where his ball was. to me, he picked up his ball without marking it, thus breaking the rules and forfeiting the hole. am i wrong on this? before i agreed to the bet, i asked "strict rules of golf?" in which he said yes. he whined about it rest of the round and even confronted me at my car in the parking lot. was i wrong on this?

[smarshal75]

You're correct. Ball has to be marked before it is removed from its resting position on the green. I don't think he would have forfeited the hole, but incurred a stroke for lifting the ball without marking it. Also, he may have been subject to a two stroke penalty for playing the ball from an incorrect position due to not marking and replacing the ball where it lay on the green.

[hattrick3518]

pay the guy your NOT playing in a pga event, and you strike me as a bit of a stickler to the rules, kinda trying to use them to excuse the fact that you lost. its not a tournament/ practice round, anything like that, rules still apply sure, but comeon he beat you is the bottom line, dont try to be a straight edge stick to the rules guy, in just a regular old round of golf, pay the guy, he marked the ball, sure not perfect, but at least he still did, this just sounds to me like you cant accept the fact that you lost and you tried to be a real stickler to the rules, let it go and pay him HE BEAT YOU!

[HeadonaStick]

pay the guy your NOT playing in a pga event, and you strike me as a bit of a stickler to the rules, kinda trying to use them to excuse the fact that you lost. its not a tournament/ practice round, anything like that, rules still apply sure, but comeon he beat you is the bottom line, dont try to be a straight edge stick to the rules guy, in just a regular old round of golf, pay the guy, he marked the ball, sure not perfect, but at least he still did, this just sounds to me like you cant accept the fact that you lost and you tried to be a real stickler to the rules, let it go and pay him HE BEAT YOU!

He broke the rules.

 

What is the point to agreeing to rules ahead of time if you later choose to ignore them (and in doing so break the first rule of golf - none of the rules may be waived or changed.)

 

If I am playing a casual round with friends then the penalty for something like this might just be brutal harrassement for the rest of the round. Every round with strangers, for money, is a serious round. If I play with someone I don't know ALL of the rules are strictly applied. Strictly. I am not going to argue with someone I don't know, ****** bag or otherwise, about what is and what is not a rule. I also carry a rule book in my bag and I would have showed him the rule(s) he violated.

 

You say the rules still apply - but then argue that they don't. Which ones don't apply and which ones do? That is the point to a rule book and agreeing to strict rules. There shouldn't be any question as to the rules.

 

This guy didn't mark his ball. Sort of doesn't count - how far from the original spot is okay? An inch, two inches, just enough to avoid a spike mark?

 

The only thing I see is that you didn't tell the guy as soon as he violated the rule. I wouldn't have waited until the hole was finished.

[golfernut78]

pay the guy your NOT playing in a pga event, and you strike me as a bit of a stickler to the rules, kinda trying to use them to excuse the fact that you lost. its not a tournament/ practice round, anything like that, rules still apply sure, but comeon he beat you is the bottom line, dont try to be a straight edge stick to the rules guy, in just a regular old round of golf, pay the guy, he marked the ball, sure not perfect, but at least he still did, this just sounds to me like you cant accept the fact that you lost and you tried to be a real stickler to the rules, let it go and pay him HE BEAT YOU!

 

we agreed upon strict rules before we teed off. he illegally picked up the ball and did not replace it back in its original spot. he two two steps towards the pin and just dropped a coin on the green - not perferct? not even in the same ballpark. my birdie putt liped out. maybe if i had move ball two steps closer to the pin i would have birdied. the difference i didn't do that and played the game by the rules.

 

i could have mentioned this to him when he did it, but i mentioned on two earlier holes in the round. it was this reason i said "strict rules of golf" when we made the bet.

[Shortknocker]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

[HeadonaStick]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

Yes, the rules are a technicality. And how was he clearly beat? Maybe they should have skipped putting all together.

 

:lol:

[Shortknocker]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

Yes, the rules are a technicality. And how was he clearly beat? Maybe they should have skipped putting all together.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, he could've rolled in his miracle birdie while the guy 3 putts for par. Yes, it was always a possibility. But by the way he told his story, he knew he was beat, he didn't want to pay the bet, so he was looking for a way out. Luckily for him, the other guy didn't know the rules, and gave him a way to welch on the bet. Sounds like neither one of them should be playing for money

[Johnny]

I dont think it would have been as bad...if you would have called him on the infraction right away

[jared]

If he THREW the mark as in THREW it not anywhere CLOSE to where his ball was then you have a point. If he just picked it up to clean it then you lost man give it up.

[golfernut78]

So golfernut, how did it all end with the Word not allowedwipe?

 

his friend came over and told him to shut up. called him out on it and said he deserved it for all the times he "bent the rules" when they play. they too were playing for money.

 

it was a $5 bet. it wasn't about the money, it was about the respect for the game.

[tlflanders]

pay the guy your NOT playing in a pga event, and you strike me as a bit of a stickler to the rules, kinda trying to use them to excuse the fact that you lost. its not a tournament/ practice round, anything like that, rules still apply sure, but comeon he beat you is the bottom line, dont try to be a straight edge stick to the rules guy, in just a regular old round of golf, pay the guy, he marked the ball, sure not perfect, but at least he still did, this just sounds to me like you cant accept the fact that you lost and you tried to be a real stickler to the rules, let it go and pay him HE BEAT YOU!

 

 

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

 

This has nothing to do about welching. Saying the guy should be paid even though he didn't follow the rules is crazy. When money is involved, it is tournament golf. Tournament golf = all usga rules apply. If you don't know the rules, don't bet simple as that. If these guys would have taken this to the pros at the club, they would have sided with golfernut 100% of the time. Let me know the next time you see a tour pro pick up his ball without marking it.

 

TL

[rareguitar]

I would of paid him. We have a pretty serious money game ($XXXX.XX) every weekend at my club and if a guys beats you he beats you. We dont pull out the magnifying glass on the USGA rulebook. IMO I know when I am beat and I wont try to find a loop hole to dodge it and we wouldnt look kindly on anyone else who did. That said we follow the rules of golf and nobody really screws around but it would have to be pretty blatent thing for any of our group to call it. I guess it depends on the guys and if you ever want to play in the money game again.

 

RG

[HeadonaStick]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

Yes, the rules are a technicality. And how was he clearly beat? Maybe they should have skipped putting all together.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, he could've rolled in his miracle birdie while the guy 3 putts for par. Yes, it was always a possibility. But by the way he told his story, he knew he was beat, he didn't want to pay the bet, so he was looking for a way out. Luckily for him, the other guy didn't know the rules, and gave him a way to welch on the bet. Sounds like neither one of them should be playing for money

Knowing the rules is part of the game, and the rules protect both players. Which rules are important, and who decides?

 

If you want to play, especially for money, you know the rules and you play by the rules. I'm not sure why anyone would want to play any other way. Just how much closer does a person get to move the ball to the hole before it is a foul?

[Shortknocker]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

Yes, the rules are a technicality. And how was he clearly beat? Maybe they should have skipped putting all together.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, he could've rolled in his miracle birdie while the guy 3 putts for par. Yes, it was always a possibility. But by the way he told his story, he knew he was beat, he didn't want to pay the bet, so he was looking for a way out. Luckily for him, the other guy didn't know the rules, and gave him a way to welch on the bet. Sounds like neither one of them should be playing for money

Knowing the rules is part of the game, and the rules protect both players. Which rules are important, and who decides?

 

If you want to play, especially for money, you know the rules and you play by the rules. I'm not sure why anyone would want to play any other way. Just how much closer does a person get to move the ball to the hole before it is a foul?

 

Where does it say that he moved it closer? None of us were there, we didn't see him do it. All it says is that he picked up his ball to clean it, then tossed his mark in the vicinity of the original resting place. For all we know, he could've put the mark behind his original position. All I know, is I would've paid the guy.

[golfernut78]

meocat, thanks for the positive praise.

 

however, it appears i was in the wrong too. i remeber where he said he works and monday i will take him the $5.

[HeadonaStick]

I would of paid him. We have a pretty serious money game ($XXXX.XX) every weekend at my club and if a guys beats you he beats you. We dont pull out the magnifying glass on the USGA rulebook. IMO I know when I am beat and I wont try to find a loop hole to dodge it and we wouldnt look kindly on anyone else who did. That said we follow the rules of golf and nobody really screws around but it would have to be pretty blatent thing for any of our group to call it. I guess it depends on the guys and if you ever want to play in the money game again.

 

RG

This situation is a little different - I assume this is a regular game. You know what to expect from each other, and you know each other outside of golf and you all understand the rules of your match.

 

In any case, I would always say something, but in a situation where it is a regular game I would wait until after I paid to say something unless it was an outrageous breach just to be clear I did not expect to get out of paying up. Or I would harrass the hell out of my opponent - as I mentioned.

[golfernut78]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

Yes, the rules are a technicality. And how was he clearly beat? Maybe they should have skipped putting all together.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, he could've rolled in his miracle birdie while the guy 3 putts for par. Yes, it was always a possibility. But by the way he told his story, he knew he was beat, he didn't want to pay the bet, so he was looking for a way out. Luckily for him, the other guy didn't know the rules, and gave him a way to welch on the bet. Sounds like neither one of them should be playing for money

Knowing the rules is part of the game, and the rules protect both players. Which rules are important, and who decides?

 

If you want to play, especially for money, you know the rules and you play by the rules. I'm not sure why anyone would want to play any other way. Just how much closer does a person get to move the ball to the hole before it is a foul?

 

Where does it say that he moved it closer? None of us were there, we didn't see him do it. All it says is that he picked up his ball to clean it, then tossed his mark in the vicinity of the original resting place. For all we know, he could've put the mark behind his original position. All I know, is I would've paid the guy.

 

i wrote that - he had picked up his ball, took two steps towards the pin and then dropped his mark.

[HeadonaStick]

eh, I would've paid the guy. He clearly had you beat. You just used a technicality to welch on the bet. The guy hit two good shots and had an eagle putt inside your birdie putt, sounds like you were going to lose the hole whether he correctly marked the ball or not. just my own .02

Yes, the rules are a technicality. And how was he clearly beat? Maybe they should have skipped putting all together.

 

:lol:

 

Yes, he could've rolled in his miracle birdie while the guy 3 putts for par. Yes, it was always a possibility. But by the way he told his story, he knew he was beat, he didn't want to pay the bet, so he was looking for a way out. Luckily for him, the other guy didn't know the rules, and gave him a way to welch on the bet. Sounds like neither one of them should be playing for money

Knowing the rules is part of the game, and the rules protect both players. Which rules are important, and who decides?

 

If you want to play, especially for money, you know the rules and you play by the rules. I'm not sure why anyone would want to play any other way. Just how much closer does a person get to move the ball to the hole before it is a foul?

 

Where does it say that he moved it closer? None of us were there, we didn't see him do it. All it says is that he picked up his ball to clean it, then tossed his mark in the vicinity of the original resting place. For all we know, he could've put the mark behind his original position. All I know, is I would've paid the guy.

 

Right here:

 

...he illegally picked up the ball and did not replace it back in its original spot. he two two steps towards the pin and just dropped a coin on the green - not perferct? not even in the same ballpark...

 

Besides, I already asked what the rule is. Is two inches okay? What is the limit for moving the ball around? Two steps?

 

Is lifting the ball out of a divot okay? How about kicking it two steps out from under a bush? Is taking a swipe at the ball in the rough and missing it, and not taking the stroke okay?

 

Which rules are enforced and which aren't? That is why we have rules.

[rareguitar]

I would of paid him. We have a pretty serious money game ($XXXX.XX) every weekend at my club and if a guys beats you he beats you. We dont pull out the magnifying glass on the USGA rulebook. IMO I know when I am beat and I wont try to find a loop hole to dodge it and we wouldnt look kindly on anyone else who did. That said we follow the rules of golf and nobody really screws around but it would have to be pretty blatent thing for any of our group to call it. I guess it depends on the guys and if you ever want to play in the money game again.

 

RG

This situation is a little different - I assume this is a regular game. You know what to expect from each other, and you know each other outside of golf and you all understand the rules of your

 

In any case, I would always say something, but in a situation where it is a regular game I would wait until after I paid to say something unless it was an outrageous breach just to be clear I did not expect to get out of paying up. Or I would harrass the hell out of my opponent - as I mentioned.

 

Most of the guys are usual suspects but we get some visitors every now and again and we havent had any trouble (knock on wood). The poker game in the clubhouse is the real game anyway! :lol:

 

RG

[rareguitar]

I would of paid him. We have a pretty serious money game ($XXXX.XX) every weekend at my club and if a guys beats you he beats you. We dont pull out the magnifying glass on the USGA rulebook. IMO I know when I am beat and I wont try to find a loop hole to dodge it and we wouldnt look kindly on anyone else who did. That said we follow the rules of golf and nobody really screws around but it would have to be pretty blatent thing for any of our group to call it. I guess it depends on the guys and if you ever want to play in the money game again.

 

RG

This situation is a little different - I assume this is a regular game. You know what to expect from each other, and you know each other outside of golf and you all understand the rules of your

 

In any case, I would always say something, but in a situation where it is a regular game I would wait until after I paid to say something unless it was an outrageous breach just to be clear I did not expect to get out of paying up. Or I would harrass the hell out of my opponent - as I mentioned.

 

Oh we harrass the hell out of each other regardless, that is a given. There is some SH*T Spoken LOL!

 

RG

[tlflanders]

meocat, thanks for the positive praise.

 

however, it appears i was in the wrong too. i remeber where he said he works and monday i will take him the $5.

 

You are not in the wrong. You could have called him out right when it happened but that would have likely made this situation even more of an ordeal. You don't have to call someone out right when an infraction occurs. I think you did the right thing in waiting until he had finished the hole. This way there is no reason for excuses on his part. He could have got mad, argured with you for a little, and then 3 putted for par. Waiting for him to finish the hole takes you out of the equation completely. He screwed up, he loses. I don't care if it is a sunday game or a pga tour event. Involving money means that you must follow the rules. The rules are set up so that no one is being given an unfair advantage, among many other things. It is his responsiblity to know the rules and if he doesn't then too bad. You should give him you rule book as payment if you feel you owe him something.

 

TL

[Skippy11]

My only question about the issue is why wait until after his putt drops in to call him on the infraction? I think if I was going to call the foul I would have done it at the point it happened, otherwise it just looks like sour grapes, even if it is not.

 

 

Oh I have one little question, did Golfnut tap in or was the correct order of play strictly followed I can not really tell from the post as most people just will tap in a lip out and not mark it. that rule seems to get broken all the time and no one ever calls it.

 

Rick

[ebenn]

He loses the hoe plain and simple.

I played with a guy ....long story short....who "cheated" as well. I was off helping a guy look for his ball. I am on the green in two, 30 feet away. The guy we are betting with is practicing on the green from the spot of his ball. We all get to the green, I two putt. Mr. practice hits his putt for birdie. He struts around talking smack and I said..."sure..those putts are easy when you practice them for 10 minutes..you lose the hole"

 

Needless to say his game fell apart from there.

[Rich71691]

He broke the rules, he loses, he said strict rules of golf, well, he broke a rule he loses. I would have done the same thing, but I wouild have called it out when he did it. I bet and I call it out when people break the rules, if I did, I hope they would call me out, so I know not to do it again.

Rich

[AcesAZ]

I would have told him he lost and didn't follow the rules correctly but would have paid him anyways. He clearly had you beat even if he did move it a couple inches closer to the hole. If it was an actual tourney I would have for sure called him on it though. 5 buck bet, no biggie.

[jared]

I cannot stand sticklers like that. Just the other day I was playing hit a drive on a 555 yard hole looked all over for it could not find it anywhere figured it went into the creek and hit my second shot after dropping. Drove the cart up the fairway to where a 435 yard drive would have been and there was my ball. I asked my playing partners (we were playing like a 20 dollar bet) if I could just play it and they honestly looked like they were not going to let me. I then said look there was no way I would have known it would have hit the path and went all the way down and they let me play it. If it is not a tourney who the hell cares rules or not he beat you.

[HeadonaStick]

I cannot stand sticklers like that. Just the other day I was playing hit a drive on a 555 yard hole looked all over for it could not find it anywhere figured it went into the creek and hit my second shot after dropping. Drove the cart up the fairway to where a 435 yard drive would have been and there was my ball. I asked my playing partners (we were playing like a 20 dollar bet) if I could just play it and they honestly looked like they were not going to let me. I then said look there was no way I would have known it would have hit the path and went all the way down and they let me play it. If it is not a tourney who the hell cares rules or not he beat you.

Anyone can win if they cheat. If we were playing for money I wouldn't have paid you - you cheated.

 

What those of you who choose to ignore the rules when they are inconvenient is not golf. Whatever it is, if you enjoy it, fine. But don't tell someone you are going to play golf with them for money and then trot out your game.

 

Some people can't stand sticklers; some people can't stand cheaters.

[jared]

I cannot stand sticklers like that. Just the other day I was playing hit a drive on a 555 yard hole looked all over for it could not find it anywhere figured it went into the creek and hit my second shot after dropping. Drove the cart up the fairway to where a 435 yard drive would have been and there was my ball. I asked my playing partners (we were playing like a 20 dollar bet) if I could just play it and they honestly looked like they were not going to let me. I then said look there was no way I would have known it would have hit the path and went all the way down and they let me play it. If it is not a tourney who the hell cares rules or not he beat you.

Anyone can win if they cheat. If we were playing for money I wouldn't have paid you - you cheated.

 

What those of you who choose to ignore the rules when they are inconvenient is not golf. Whatever it is, if you enjoy it, fine. But don't tell someone you are going to play golf with them for money and then trot out your game.

 

Some people can't stand sticklers; some people can't stand cheaters.

 

First off I ASKED THEM IF I COULD PLAY THE BALL. I did not cheat. Boy your group must be a blast put out 6 inch putts if you dont mark your ball perfectly you get penalized etc etc. Anyone can win if they cheat that doesnt even make sense. The point is there is cheating IE dropping a ball when yours is out of bounds when no one is looking and there is things like not marking your ball and cleaning it etc. It is all in who you play with...obviously your the type of guy who is no fun to be in a bet with. And would love to win on a technicality because you dont have the game to beat someone.

[mcbush25]

pay the guy your NOT playing in a pga event, and you strike me as a bit of a stickler to the rules, kinda trying to use them to excuse the fact that you lost. its not a tournament/ practice round, anything like that, rules still apply sure, but comeon he beat you is the bottom line, dont try to be a straight edge stick to the rules guy, in just a regular old round of golf, pay the guy, he marked the ball, sure not perfect, but at least he still did, this just sounds to me like you cant accept the fact that you lost and you tried to be a real stickler to the rules, let it go and pay him HE BEAT YOU!

 

There are rules in place for a reason. Just becaused he called him on a rule doesn't mean he is a stickler. He asked the guy if they were playing strict to the rules of the game and he agreed. I don't see a problem with it. Only thing he should have done is say something after he made his first putt after he failed to mark his ball.

 

People get so mad when the smart guy who watches everything uses his head instead of his money.