Could a 12 handicapper....

[dog flog]

[quote name='dog flog' timestamp='1427939748' post='11265865']
[quote name='MtlJeff' timestamp='1427938962' post='11265747']
18 pages.. Good Lord

Are you guys aware the dufners are getting divorced?
[/quote]There's things going on in the world outside this thread? I've gone through lunch a bag of popcorn, dinner and two drinks on this thread. And did they mention what type of irons Amanda plays?
[/quote]I see Miller beat me to the joke. Getting groggy. Should probably get up and move around. Kinda feels like there's just no breaking the Mexican standoff so I'm outa here. For now anyhow.

[wetdogsmell]

[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427938866' post='11265727']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427938799' post='11265719']
Yea, if you're hitting in a 20 foot circle, you got other serious problems to be a 12. Lol!
[/quote]

42 gawt damn putts......... 2 4 putts and 2 3putts.... I got issues.... Yes I do!
[/quote]

Clearly your putter is too forgiving. Have you tried switching to an old bullseye?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427936404' post='11265365']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427935800' post='11265281']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427935433' post='11265233']
That's the ideal way to do it, but essentially I'll be getting a favor from a buddy to use the trackman time. It won't matter what it shows to you anyway and as a human I would be tired hitting that many shots.

I can tell you, that if it's easier for me to hit an iron to my target, my scores will be lower. That's my experience.
[/quote]
Understood. In my experience a blade is easier for working the ball and is not any more "difficult" for me to get it close to my target than my cbs, especially when I am working the ball but even straight shots aren't that different anymore. And by comparison my SGIs put me further away from same said target.
[/quote]

You keep saying the same old silliness. Comparing MP-67's to MP-60 which are virtually identical. Face it, you have no experience comparing REAL CB's to your blades. Your comparison experience is meaningless.
[/quote]

You keep posting silly points and not being able to prove your precious CBs are saving you strokes. Face it you have no proof of your points and you haven't even hit a modern blade to compare your CBs against either. Your experience is meaningless. Oh and did you play blades as a 12 index and compare them to cavities at the time?

You keep thinking they are identical because you use a meaningless MOI number. Please explain why there are so many combo sets with MP32/60s, MP67/60s. In fact there was a poster in this thread that said he played MP60s in his long irons and Hogan Apexes for his scoring irons. You may want to quote him and call him out too.

Oh and Mizuno clearly designed them for two different golfers as well. If you say they are the same then so are MP-4s and MP-64s, and AP1s and AP2s. They are close in performance but not the same. Oh yeah, have you even hit MP67s and MP60s to see if they perform the same like you say they will? Let me clue you in. They have slight differences because I know that from experience. They have slight differences because Mizuno designed them that way.

Of course you are going to think they are the same when you put all your faith in a meaningless MOI number.

[govols]

So your lack of regression is the same as experience?

[DeNinny]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427945108' post='11266397']
So your lack of regression is the same as experience?
[/quote]
How are those blades treating you? Oh wait you don't play them and continue to post in a thread about playing blades.

[govols]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427946431' post='11266463'][quote name='govols' timestamp='1427945108' post='11266397']
So your lack of regression is the same as experience?
[/quote]
How are those blades treating you? Oh wait you don't play them and continue to post in a thread about playing blades.[/quote]

Sure I do. I have two blade wedges.

Of course it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that blades are better suited for really good ball strikers that wear out the sweet spot and not posers but manufacturers will take your money just the same while you struggle to make solid contact.

[govols]

Here's my vokey

[attachment=2690519:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1427947160.954762.jpg]

Here's where it went

[attachment=2690521:ImageUploadedByGolfWRX Mobile1427947206.610009.jpg]

[Nessism]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427943933' post='11266305']

Of course you are going to think they are the same when you put all your faith in a meaningless MOI number.
[/quote]

The MP60's and 67's have almost identical playing characteristics because they have the same specs. Not just MOI. Blade length is same and CG height too. These are the main characteristics that define the head.

Saying these clubs are different and how your "experience" shows the 60 (CB) is worse for scoring is ludicrous.


MP-60
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .83
MOI = 11.9

MP-67
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .81
MOI = 12.2

Say what you want, these are the FACTS.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427947820' post='11266535']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427943933' post='11266305']
Of course you are going to think they are the same when you put all your faith in a meaningless MOI number.
[/quote]

The MP60's and 67's have almost identical playing characteristics because they have the same specs. Not just MOI. Blade length is same and CG height too. These are the main characteristics that define the head.

Saying these clubs are different and how your "experience" shows the 60 (CB) is worse for scoring is ludicrous.


MP-60
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .83
MOI = 11.9

MP-67
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .81
MOI = 12.2

Say what you want, these are the FACTS.
[/quote]

I could care less about those numbers and don't dispute them. Just more meaningless facts. I see you can't explain why there are so many combo sets with MP60s and 67s or 32s. The fact is that they were clubs designed for different target audiences. Simple as that.

Can you refute the fact that you can't prove your CBs help your score, with scoring data? Say what you want. You CAN'T.

[Nessism]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427948230' post='11266557']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427947820' post='11266535']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427943933' post='11266305']
Of course you are going to think they are the same when you put all your faith in a meaningless MOI number.
[/quote]

The MP60's and 67's have almost identical playing characteristics because they have the same specs. Not just MOI. Blade length is same and CG height too. These are the main characteristics that define the head.

Saying these clubs are different and how your "experience" shows the 60 (CB) is worse for scoring is ludicrous.


MP-60
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .83
MOI = 11.9

MP-67
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .81
MOI = 12.2

Say what you want, these are the FACTS.
[/quote]

I could care less about those numbers and don't dispute them. Just more meaningless facts. I see you can't explain why there are so many combo sets with MP60s and 67s or 32s. The fact is that they were clubs designed for different target audiences. Simple as that.

Can you refute the fact that you can't prove your CBs help your score, with scoring data? Say what you want. You CAN'T.
[/quote]

Combo sets made by guy that don't know squat about equipment.

Regarding scoring, I know that my scores have improved since moving to GI. I know GI long irons are much easier to hit than blades or small cavities. I know that club specs define playability. GI clubs ALWAYS have a high MOI and long blade length (these two characteristics go hand in hand). I also know that club head designers know these things too.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427948501' post='11266571']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427948230' post='11266557']
[quote name='Nessism' timestamp='1427947820' post='11266535']
[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1427943933' post='11266305']
Of course you are going to think they are the same when you put all your faith in a meaningless MOI number.
[/quote]

The MP60's and 67's have almost identical playing characteristics because they have the same specs. Not just MOI. Blade length is same and CG height too. These are the main characteristics that define the head.

Saying these clubs are different and how your "experience" shows the 60 (CB) is worse for scoring is ludicrous.


MP-60
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .83
MOI = 11.9

MP-67
Blade length = 1.1
VCOG = .81
MOI = 12.2

Say what you want, these are the FACTS.
[/quote]

I could care less about those numbers and don't dispute them. Just more meaningless facts. I see you can't explain why there are so many combo sets with MP60s and 67s or 32s. The fact is that they were clubs designed for different target audiences. Simple as that.

Can you refute the fact that you can't prove your CBs help your score, with scoring data? Say what you want. You CAN'T.
[/quote]

Combo sets made by guy that don't know squat about equipment.
[/quote]

Yeah they probably make decisions based on actually playing the clubs and not meaningless numbers like MOI. I'm sure you can help them though. However the MP-60 and 67 are old, but you may be able to help the guys building MP4 and MP64 sets. In fact nearly every combo set has "similar" clubs like the MP60 and MP67, so you should really go help all those combo set guys.

By the way, with all those numbers you evaluate, do you have any scoring data that shows they matter?

[govols]

Why is MOI meaningless to you? It should be of utmost importance since the club you play has such a tiny sweet spot and no forgiveness.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='govols' timestamp='1427949190' post='11266601']
Why is MOI meaningless to you? It should be of utmost importance since the club you play has such a tiny sweet spot and no forgiveness.
[/quote]
Reread my posts.

[knock it close]

Hey guys I'm back. What did I miss? Trackman irrelevent? Oh ok...

[T.Beau]

Here are the 2 models in question...

[govols]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1427950281' post='11266655']Hey guys I'm back. What did I miss? Trackman irrelevent? Oh ok...[/quote]


So is MOI

[Gauchograd99]

I think what DeNinny is referring to is the person hits the clubs and they fit them. Personally, I play blades and pretty much always have as they fit my swing really well. I am a naturally high ball player with pretty high spin (iron number x 1000rpm on average) and tend to play heavy shafts (DG s300 in my Mizuno MP-4's), however some clubs actually work better with slightly lighter but still rather stiff shafts (Steelfiber i110cw in my Apex MB's) designed to keep my flight down.

IF you get fit for any club that you swing well you can play it. Doesn't matter if it is a blade, GI, SGI, all metal wood irons like my cousin plays, etc.. If you look at your misses and you consistently miss high in the head or to the toe, a blade is probably not the best call for consistency in distance and distance control. If your miss is thin and/or a little inside you probably will not lose much distance and your consistency will be acceptable.

Anyone CAN play anything ... whether you think you are up for it is UP TO YOU. Don't let the "blades vs CB" war deter you from what feels best and works for you. CB's aren't for everyone regardless of what some would say. Remember: Palmer, Sneed, Hogan, Nicklaus, etc. didn't start as scratch players and they certainly didn't start with a CB design made with "full face sweet spots" or other marketing terminology. They got out and hit balls and got to know their equipment. Do the same and you can play anything out there on the market... so long as it fits you.

Enjoy.

[HiSpeed48]

[quote name='21degreeloft' timestamp='1427748395' post='11247483']
Play with these irons?

Callaway apex mb
Titleist mb
Taylormade TP MB
Mizuno mp-4
Callaway razr x MB
[/quote]

Just play whatever you want and quit overthinking it

[knock it close]

[quote name='Gauchograd99' timestamp='1427951037' post='11266677']
I think what DeNinny is referring to is the person hits the clubs and they fit them. Personally, I play blades and pretty much always have as they fit my swing really well. I am a naturally high ball player with pretty high spin (iron number x 1000rpm on average) and tend to play heavy shafts (DG s300 in my Mizuno MP-4's), however some clubs actually work better with slightly lighter but still rather stiff shafts (Steelfiber i110cw in my Apex MB's) designed to keep my flight down.

IF you get fit for any club that you swing well you can play it. Doesn't matter if it is a blade, GI, SGI, all metal wood irons like my cousin plays, etc.. If you look at your misses and you consistently miss high in the head or to the toe, a blade is probably not the best call for consistency in distance and distance control. If your miss is thin and/or a little inside you probably will not lose much distance and your consistency will be acceptable.

Anyone CAN play anything ... whether you think you are up for it is UP TO YOU. Don't let the "blades vs CB" war deter you from what feels best and works for you. CB's aren't for everyone regardless of what some would say. Remember: Palmer, Sneed, Hogan, Nicklaus, etc. didn't start as scratch players and they certainly didn't start with a CB design made with "full face sweet spots" or other marketing terminology. They got out and hit balls and got to know their equipment. Do the same and you can play anything out there on the market... so long as it fits you.

Enjoy.
[/quote]Palmer, Sneed, Hogan and Jack were probably 12 caps when they were 8 years old so...

[Gauchograd99]

[quote name='knock it close' timestamp='1427951670' post='11266705']
[quote name='Gauchograd99' timestamp='1427951037' post='11266677']
I think what DeNinny is referring to is the person hits the clubs and they fit them. Personally, I play blades and pretty much always have as they fit my swing really well. I am a naturally high ball player with pretty high spin (iron number x 1000rpm on average) and tend to play heavy shafts (DG s300 in my Mizuno MP-4's), however some clubs actually work better with slightly lighter but still rather stiff shafts (Steelfiber i110cw in my Apex MB's) designed to keep my flight down.

IF you get fit for any club that you swing well you can play it. Doesn't matter if it is a blade, GI, SGI, all metal wood irons like my cousin plays, etc.. If you look at your misses and you consistently miss high in the head or to the toe, a blade is probably not the best call for consistency in distance and distance control. If your miss is thin and/or a little inside you probably will not lose much distance and your consistency will be acceptable.

Anyone CAN play anything ... whether you think you are up for it is UP TO YOU. Don't let the "blades vs CB" war deter you from what feels best and works for you. CB's aren't for everyone regardless of what some would say. Remember: Palmer, Sneed, Hogan, Nicklaus, etc. didn't start as scratch players and they certainly didn't start with a CB design made with "full face sweet spots" or other marketing terminology. They got out and hit balls and got to know their equipment. Do the same and you can play anything out there on the market... so long as it fits you.

Enjoy.
[/quote]Palmer, Sneed, Hogan and Jack were probably 12 caps when they were 8 years old so...
[/quote]

So was I after a year (I started at 14 and after 3 years of tennis in HS walked on and played varsity golf) ... what's the point? If you are suggesting the OP isn't going to be one of those players, I'm pretty sure he would be true to himself about his expectations. I EXPECT to hit every shot perfect... I don't, but I do know my miss and what to expect worse case.

I think I turned out pretty good considering my last lesson was in 1994 and I took 6 years off from playing from 2004-2010. ANYONE CAN play anything. Will the OP be the next Hogan? Probably not... and neither will I. Will the OP have fun if he plays blades that fit him well? Pretty sure he will enjoy himself and probably get frustrated just like I do.

FYI: The first clubs I played were my uncles and as follows:
Ping Eye 2 driver (yes, a WOOD driver with screws and everthing)
Hogan 3w (metalwood with steel shaft)
Fennwick 5w (yes, they used to make golf clubs! First graphite shaft I ever hit, too.)
Hogan Radials 2-E wedge, stiff shaft.
Ping Answer 2 putter

[Forged4ever]

My Thing is that if you've gotta ask....

No-


Regardless of your decision, have a great Season My Friend

My Best,
Richard

[Nessism]

Here are the 2 models in question...

 

Mizuno is famous for selling clubs with overlapping playability. I've never understood why they bothered.

 

Head specs here...http://www.golfworks.com/images/art/MPF_MIZUNO.pdf

 

I don't trust Maltby's MPF number, but the other info is useful.

[tdelam]

Wow, 19 pages?!? lol. I wonder if the OP got the answer he was looking for. Funny how these things are... You want to get an online gamer made? Tell him his internet slow and all hell breaks loose. You want to get a golfer mad? Ask about blades and have an opinion about it. I guess just having an opinion attracts all kinds of attention!

[Nine Miler]

Morning y'all. Anyone buy any blades last night?

[dog flog]

As the morning sun filled the OK Corral, Earp waited patiently at the gate, slowly twirling his pistol in the friscalating daylight...

[govols]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427980426' post='11267817']Morning y'all. Anyone buy any blades last night?[/quote]

Nope. Just dreamed of flushing my forged CBs

[mahonie]

[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427940008' post='11265907']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427939701' post='11265859']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427939426' post='11265799']
Exactice I can't quote that post for some reason, but in the post with the manufacturers copy that you've bolded...

Skilled players, elite players, shotmakers... No offense, but do you think that's applicable to a 12 handicap? I know you don't think that part is applicable.
[/quote]

AHHHHH. just being an @$$hole here... but skilled / elite is very much self evaluated.....

I do think I am a skilled player.... not elite... but skilled.... I am a shot maker, as I am able to do certain shots.....

I play with an 8 handicap, he is a 1 way player.... low hooded bump and runs all day and he is an 8. He is the best damn 8 I know of with a one way shot. But he has to avoid certain course and sandtraps or he is screwed. I dont want to be a 1 way player were I have to avoid X course and bunkers because I cant score......


but yes yes... it is marked for the "Better" Players.... but a scratch pretty much had to be a 12 when they started and progressively got better... Now I will say if I got Stuck here for the next 3 years... I think I would quit.... but I think I will still be getting progressively better. I hope to reach singles by the end of the year....
[/quote]

No offense, you are not yet skilled, or a shotmaker. You could be though. Here's some wild news. 95% of the pros I have ever seen/who have been my peers/you watch on tv/ have a one way shot. I do too.

None of these guys are working shots unless it is to go around an obstacle. It doesn't mean they can't, it just means they realize it doesn't help their score. In fact it hurts it. If it helped, they would move it both ways.
[/quote]

Nine, you need to watch the European Tour...most of the courses are not set up for 'target' golf and with the wind blowing I would say that the majority of the top Euro players try and move the ball either way in order to post a decent score. I remember reading a Jack Nicklaus article when he said that his main advantage at his peak was that he always aimed for the centre of the green, but played a draw for a pin on the left and a fade for the right side pin. Not many pros make it to the very top playing a one way shot...look at the list of No. 1 ranked players since the rankings began.

[llewol007]

Yes it is possible. Remember it is not the arrow but the Indian.
Even perimeter weighted clubs cant help a crappy golf swing. Muscle back clubs will give you that information a lot quicker than perimeter weight clubs.

[Nine Miler]

[quote name='mahonie' timestamp='1427983416' post='11268079']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427940008' post='11265907']
[quote name='Exactice808' timestamp='1427939701' post='11265859']
[quote name='Nine Miler' timestamp='1427939426' post='11265799']
Exactice I can't quote that post for some reason, but in the post with the manufacturers copy that you've bolded...

Skilled players, elite players, shotmakers... No offense, but do you think that's applicable to a 12 handicap? I know you don't think that part is applicable.
[/quote]

AHHHHH. just being an @$$hole here... but skilled / elite is very much self evaluated.....

I do think I am a skilled player.... not elite... but skilled.... I am a shot maker, as I am able to do certain shots.....

I play with an 8 handicap, he is a 1 way player.... low hooded bump and runs all day and he is an 8. He is the best damn 8 I know of with a one way shot. But he has to avoid certain course and sandtraps or he is screwed. I dont want to be a 1 way player were I have to avoid X course and bunkers because I cant score......


but yes yes... it is marked for the "Better" Players.... but a scratch pretty much had to be a 12 when they started and progressively got better... Now I will say if I got Stuck here for the next 3 years... I think I would quit.... but I think I will still be getting progressively better. I hope to reach singles by the end of the year....
[/quote]

No offense, you are not yet skilled, or a shotmaker. You could be though. Here's some wild news. 95% of the pros I have ever seen/who have been my peers/you watch on tv/ have a one way shot. I do too.

None of these guys are working shots unless it is to go around an obstacle. It doesn't mean they can't, it just means they realize it doesn't help their score. In fact it hurts it. If it helped, they would move it both ways.
[/quote]

Nine, you need to watch the European Tour...most of the courses are not set up for 'target' golf and with the wind blowing I would say that the majority of the top Euro players try and move the ball either way in order to post a decent score. I remember reading a Jack Nicklaus article when he said that his main advantage at his peak was that he always aimed for the centre of the green, but played a draw for a pin on the left and a fade for the right side pin. Not many pros make it to the very top playing a one way shot...look at the list of No. 1 ranked players since the rankings began.
[/quote]

I would say that wind, etc. is a good reason to work shots. You are right, in firm and fast, sometimes you just can't get to certain places without moving the ball around, I still think its prudent to limit moving it around in both directions as much as possible. I didn't look up the list of #1s yet, but I can think of 2 guys that almost exclusively worked it one way, and they are Woosnam and Norman.

Let me check out that list, and see who is on there.

Edit- checked out the list. I think Fred Couples is/was pretty much a one way mover of the ball. Lehman was a #1 for a week, also a one way mover of the ball.

Montgomerie and Duval, pretty much moved it one way, and Harrington who arguably could have been a number one in 2007, also a one way mover of the ball.

[govols]

Even when blades were the norm back in the day most players hit one shot. Arnold Palmer and Jack Nicklaus come to mind.