MD/VA/DC Golfers - Ten Seconds or Less

[XHoop24]

Tee Time Alert: Blue Mash Sat. 9/9 9:20 AM

Who you get to play with: MTN, SullGolf, and the golfer previously known as CCMVP

 

DM or email if interested.

 

Spot has been taken! An opportunity to play with the CCMVP proved to be quite popular.

[FAbb]

bump

[FAbb]

Turns out Stix is available, so we're going to smash the rock at Waverly together this afternoon. It's been a hot minute since I've gotten a chance to play with Stix, so I'm very much looking forward to it.

[SullGolf]

I'm still in the mode of comparing to everything to Bethpage. Since I'm playing Blue Mash this weekend and for the strokeplay event, I compared the two.

 

Blue Mash - Blue Tees: 6502 yards

Bethpage Black - White Tees: 6684 yards

 

If someone told me the difference between those two courses is only 180 yards, I would slap them right in the face. Feels 1,000 yards different. Maybe it's just because BPB gets so much of it's yardage out of the par 4s, not the 3s and 5s. But after the 2nd hole, every par 4 at BPB felt as long or longer than the longest 4 at Blue Mash (#3). Or maybe it's that you can roll a 200 yard shot on to the green at Blue Mash, which isn't possible at BPB.

[2moreTerps]

Yardage is deceiving. I play avenel at 6000 yards and have plenty of shots with different clubs into greens. Waverly at 6500 is wedge wedge wedge wedge

[TheCityGame]

I don't see a pro-level short game being easier to obtain than a pro-level long game.

its a lot easier to get close to.

 

Why do you say that? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't see it as immediately obvious like many do. A lot of people say just because it's noticeably less athletic than the long game, but I don't think that means it's easier. It still requires different types of talent and precision that many people don't have.

I'm talking purely strokes gained. This is well established.

 

I probably lose 2/3 strokes in the short game. 4/6 in the long game.

 

Similar difference between me and a 10 handicapper.

[gregh729]

GREAT beach day/ Upper 70s, sunny, clear. 1st post beach beer down. Another in hand as I head to the shower. Love these days, you can feel any stress leaving your body! AHHHHHHHH!

[TheCityGame]

GREAT beach day/ Upper 70s, sunny, clear. 1st post beach beer down. Another in hand as I head to the shower. Love these days, you can feel any stress leaving your body! AHHHHHHHH!

brother, tell me about it.

 

Plans today included sleep in, ride bike to nowhere, sit on the beach until I got tired of looking at butts and then grill some shrimp.

 

We just had like a 10 minute discussion about how nice a breeze is.

[SullGolf]

I don't see a pro-level short game being easier to obtain than a pro-level long game.

its a lot easier to get close to.

 

Why do you say that? I don't necessarily disagree, but I don't see it as immediately obvious like many do. A lot of people say just because it's noticeably less athletic than the long game, but I don't think that means it's easier. It still requires different types of talent and precision that many people don't have.

I'm talking purely strokes gained. This is well established.

 

I probably lose 2/3 strokes in the short game. 4/6 in the long game.

 

Similar difference between me and a 10 handicapper.

 

I'm tracking. Got it.

 

But going back to what we can all agree on: doesn't this totally refute the purpose of the article? I just dug up one of Broadie's older papers that's available, and think it predates the term "strokes gained", but it shows "total shot value" which I think is more or less the same.

 

Here's the table from that paper (http://www.columbia....cg_v_200804.pdf), with these categories based on scoring:

Pro1 (64-71)

Pro2 (72-79)

Am1 (70-83)

Am2 (84-97)

Am3 (97-120)

 

Based on the numbers, it would seem that it's easier to get a "pro-level" short game, but also that it's not the area you want to focus on as the easiest way to improve your actual scores.

 

One complicating factor is that the short game difficulty is the same no matter if you are a pro or an amateur, more or less. Pros play tougher green complexes and all, but a 10 yard pitch isn't that different. What is different is that even though pros have better SG long game, that is comparing two equal shots. In reality, we are talking about 2 different shots when the pros are playing from 7500 yards and hitting from 200+ yards instead of 140. I think that evens out some of the difference between strokes gained and actual scoring. Even though the Pro1 is 25 shots better on the long game, that's only assuming they are equivalent shots, which they aren't. When it comes to actual scores on the scorecard, the difference is going to be less than 25 because of the shorter tees.

[2moreTerps]

 

One complicating factor is that the short game difficulty is the same no matter if you are a pro or an amateur, more or less. Pros play tougher green complexes and all, but a 10 yard pitch isn't that different. What is different is that even though pros have better SG long game, that is comparing two equal shots. In reality, we are talking about 2 different shots when the pros are playing from 7500 yards and hitting from 200+ yards instead of 140. I think that evens out some of the difference between strokes gained and actual scoring. Even though the Pro1 is 25 shots better on the long game, that's only assuming they are equivalent shots, which they aren't. When it comes to actual scores on the scorecard, the difference is going to be less than 25 because of the shorter tees.

 

strokes gained doesn't compare the 200 yard shot and the 140 yard shot. it compares the results of the 200 yard shot vs. a baseline and the 140 yard shot vs. a baseline.

 

for example: Pros make like 50% of putts from 7.5 feet. so if i miss one from there i have lost .5 strokes. If you miss one from 11' you lose like .22 strokes

[SullGolf]

One complicating factor is that the short game difficulty is the same no matter if you are a pro or an amateur, more or less. Pros play tougher green complexes and all, but a 10 yard pitch isn't that different. What is different is that even though pros have better SG long game, that is comparing two equal shots. In reality, we are talking about 2 different shots when the pros are playing from 7500 yards and hitting from 200+ yards instead of 140. I think that evens out some of the difference between strokes gained and actual scoring. Even though the Pro1 is 25 shots better on the long game, that's only assuming they are equivalent shots, which they aren't. When it comes to actual scores on the scorecard, the difference is going to be less than 25 because of the shorter tees.

 

strokes gained doesn't compare the 200 yard shot and the 140 yard shot. it compares the results of the 200 yard shot vs. a baseline and the 140 yard shot vs. a baseline.

 

for example: Pros make like 50% of putts from 7.5 feet. so if i miss one from there i have lost .5 strokes. If you miss one from 11' you lose like .22 strokes

 

Ya, that's what I was trying to get across. When a pro has a 500 yard par 4, they hit a 300 yard drive and a 200 yard 6 iron. When an amateur plays the same hole it's a 420 yard par 4, so they hit a 250 yard drive and a 170 yard 6-iron. Strokes gained is by yardage, not by club. You change tees and the long game strokes change because of the change in yardage. The short game strokes are the same though, because the yardage is the same.

[TheCityGame]

I know people getting psyched for football but this venus - Sloan match is great.

[dcmidnight]

Just perfect weather this afternoon for golf. Carried over most of the good play with one exception. 6 bogies, 1 double and 2 birdies on the back nine to take a little stink off.

 

Hope that all my friends in FL and coastal GA are staying safe this weekend, looks like just a mess.

[pquarta1]

So, anyone else excited for the 'It' release? We got a babysitter to go see it tomorrow. Highlife, bois. New Kingsman looking rad too.

[misplacedtexan83]

So, anyone else excited for the 'It' release? We got a babysitter to go see it tomorrow. Highlife, bois. New Kingsman looking rad too.

 

Let me know how it is because the new Penny Wise looks like a beeeotch

[FAbb]

It was a beautiful afternoon to sneak out for a round of golf. The weather was aces, and Waverly is great right now. The greens took a long time to heal, but they're pretty stellar now that they have. They did aerate fairways recently, but that's not really a big deal for playability.

 

Stix and I both came in hot for our 2:10 time, and the starter tells us we're playing with 2 guys already on the tee. They teed off before we got to the box, and started walking off like they thought they were going off alone. We said we were joining, and they seemed slightly bummed. The one guy says to us, "we're playing 5-5-5." Stix and I just kinda give each other a "huh?" and tee off. We guess they were telling us they're playing a $5 Nassau. Nice guys, but something just had me puzzled about them. They're really grinding out there. Making each other hole out some really short putts, even when it seemed like they were both chopping it up on a hole. Stix and I kept joking about how serious they were into this $5 Nassau. At one point I start talking to Stix about what an odd couple they are, and wondering how they know each other. I finally asked on the 7th tee (our 16th hole). The one guy says, "I'm a gambler" and the other indicates that he's a dealer at a casino the gambler frequents. Odd couple was right. It's also at that point their 5-5-5 game gets an explanation. It was $5/hole, $5/stroke, and$5/something else that I can't remember. GIR that results in par is worth $5. GIR that results in birdie is $10. All kinds of other stuff as well, I'm sure. Gambler missed a $40 putt on our 17th, but ended up chipping in on our 18th to the tune of $70 (no clue how that number comes to be). Nuts.

 

It was great to get out there with Stix. It had been far too long. Plenty of good shots, but just a hair off from where I'm sure he'd like to be. Lots of bogies that could've easily been pars. That's the kind of stuff that happens when you don't get out as much. No biggie. Lag putting was good. He left at least a handful dead center 1-2 rolls short. Awesome guy to play a round with.

 

I'm making progress on the game in general. The ball seems to be curving less, and just generally more consistent. I hit it better than the stats might indicate. It was windy out there. Blew a couple holes from position A1, one due to a wicked foot slip in the fairway, but had a better than average day getting up and down as well. Could've scored better, or worse, so I can't complain. Still work to do, but I think I'm trending towards starting to see some of the results of what I'm working on.

[StixBmore]

Fabb failed to mention his 240 yd 3w second shot on the par 5 (our 11th hole, but typically 2nd hole) that flew just over the flag and stuck on the middle back of the green. He nearly made the eagle putt, but easy tap in for birdie. GREAT SHOT!

 

Weather was perfect for an afternoon walk. And the two gambling randos were interesting to watch, Ed and John I believe. Not great golfers and playing for serious money....interesting. Ed hit one of the worst shots I've seen on the long par 3 (7th hole typically). Total shank right that went over the first row of homes....those homes are not near the hole at all...and I was shocked we didn't hear breaking glass or an angry homeowner running out to the course after a ball just ended up in the living room....it took all I had to not laugh out loud.

 

Game is just not as sharp as usual at the moment but feel like it's getting close, though I hit a couple of nasty bad irons today that I could have laughed at myself if I wasn't yelling so many obscenities into my golf towel.

[TheCityGame]

So, anyone else excited for the 'It' release? We got a babysitter to go see it tomorrow. Highlife, bois. New Kingsman looking rad too.

not enough to go see it, but I'm interested.

 

Kingsman 2 is on the short list and still trying to get to Logan Lucky.

 

Some cool movies coming out in next 2 months, including Blade runner.

 

Haven't been as psyched about a movie in a long time as I am about Gaurdians 2,though.

[SullGolf]

On the 7th at Waverly, I remember once hitting a really bad shot in a match with City. We had to determine whether my ball was OB or not, and had to learn about whether the OB line is inside or outside the line of the stakes. Terrible shot. Hugely right. But still at least on the OB line. That's still about 30 yards inside of the houses you are talking about Stix, never mind OVER the houses.

 

For the record, the OB line isn't the center of the stakes. It's the edge of the stakes, on the in bounds side. If any part of your ball touches that line, then it's in bounds. If I recall right, my ball touched the center line of the stakes, but not the inside line of the stakes.

[TheCityGame]

Every town in Maine had a scary clown. In my town, she was called Grody Jody.

 

One time we were eating meatball subs and she came into the diner and said, "ain't working days no more, are ya brother?"

 

Then she threw back like a tablespoon of salt and said, "it's good for colds."

 

She was crazy. We also called her The Painted Horse.

[SullGolf]

Every town in Maine had a scary clown.

 

Steven King aint writing fiction boys. Straight up CityGame childhood biography.

[TheCityGame]

I just learned that on the Japan LPGA tour website they list each player's blood type.

 

They believe your blood type is indicative of your personality and that people root for players based on blood type.

 

What planet is Japan is on?

[eagle1997]

I know people getting psyched for football but this venus - Sloan match is great.

 

THAT. WAS. AWESOME.

[dcmidnight]

At one point I start talking to Stix about what an odd couple they are, and wondering how they know each other. I finally asked on the 7th tee (our 16th hole). The one guy says, "I'm a gambler" and the other indicates that he's a dealer at a casino the gambler frequents.

 

I played poker with a guy two nights ago that had on a TPC t-shirt, I thought nothing of it until he asked how I liked Erin Hills. I sort of had to think how he knew to ask but I had a hat on which just has their logo on it - kind of a generic clover design, you'ld really have to know it to ask about it. Lots of sicko poker players are degenerate golfers too. And not good golfers, a lot of really not-good but degenerate golfers.

[pquarta1]

So, anyone else excited for the 'It' release? We got a babysitter to go see it tomorrow. Highlife, bois. New Kingsman looking rad too.

not enough to go see it, but I'm interested.

 

Kingsman 2 is on the short list and still trying to get to Logan Lucky.

 

Some cool movies coming out in next 2 months, including Blade runner.

 

Haven't been as psyched about a movie in a long time as I am about Gaurdians 2,though.

 

Saw Logan Lucky. Good. Not very good. Better than pretty good. Good. I think cut 20-30 minutes and it would've been perfect. Entertaining.

 

Kingsman 2 will be seen, probably by myself.

 

'It' will be good. Focusing only on the Kid portion... We're looking forward to it, though I do think Kingsman will be a better movie.

 

Blood type: FU

[PAmatt83]

Anybody that's serious about improving their golf scores should at the very least be adequate in the short game. If you aren't almost always getting the ball on the green in one shot when you're within ~50 yards of the flag, and/or 3-putting more than 1-2 times/round on average, you need to dedicate some time to that stuff. Basically, get to the point where you're able to get down in 3 shots or less on average from inside 50 yards. That level of proficiency is attainable by pretty much anybody. Any improvement beyond that level equates to fine tuning in my mind. You've got to do the fine tuning to really maximize your scoring potential, but a 15 cap ain't getting to a 5 by just working on short game. A 5 handicap ain't getting to a 0 by just working on short game, either. You've got to work dat coarse adjustment knob (ball striking) to make the big, lasting improvements.

Couldn't agree more. Right around the time I picked up the game I found myself unemployed. Playing multiple times a week was no option for my wallet so I messed around on chipping n putting green daily. My tee to green game goes something along the lines of skank, skank up and down. Unless it's a par 5, it goes skank skank skank up and down. I have no clue how to compress a ball, but put that tour ball I have no business playing 30 yards short of the green and I'll score a ball.. but yea,what fabb said

[Kent01putt]

Let me ask a question on strokes won & lost. If a Pro hits a 7 iron and I hit a 7 iron into a green are we equal. I hit a 7 iron 155. A pro hit's his 200. Playing different tee's where we both hit the same iron into the green, are we equal. Sully said pro's play tougher green complex's than us. I don't think so. They have the advantage of the same speed greens week in and week out. I think that makes putting much easier. The changing of speed on greens from one course to another can play havoc with me personally. Just asking.

[FAbb]

Let me ask a question on strokes won & lost. If a Pro hits a 7 iron and I hit a 7 iron into a green are we equal. I hit a 7 iron 155. A pro hit's his 200. Playing different tee's where we both hit the same iron into the green, are we equal. Sully said pro's play tougher green complex's than us. I don't think so. They have the advantage of the same speed greens week in and week out. I think that makes putting much easier. The changing of speed on greens from one course to another can play havoc with me personally. Just asking.

 

Read this, Kent.

 

http://www.strokesgainedgolf.com/How-Strokes-Gained-Works.html

 

You don't compare your 7-iron against their 7-iron. Everything is compared against the benchmark. It doesn't matter if you play different tees.

[pquarta1]

200!yard shot is not equivalent to a 150 yard shot just because you're hitting the same club, Kent. I do agree about the greens and putting. I also agree to a point that the tee ball is of paramount importance IF you're banging them out of play. Short game can save a poor striking round if the ball is kept in play. Hard to play golf hitting 3 off of the tee.

 

Proximity to the hole on approaches is huge. So overall ball striking will get one to scratch faster than improved short game. But the ability to not 3 putt and make a lot of 5 to 8 footers will get you to the plus world, assuming you do everything else well.

[Kent01putt]

Fabb I understand that article. What I am saying is the object of playing different tee's is to make players have the same clubs in their hand on approach shots. I think (JMO) that scoring clubs start at 150 yds an in. So is a pro able to score as well as me or me as well as him with the same club in hand and what causes the difference. With both hitting a 7i should we be compared with the same scoring ability as a metrics.