Do you hit irons above your handicap?

[talksalot81]

There are 2 extremes - blades and shovels. Outside of this forum, rational golfers know that blades are designed for superb ball strikers and shovels are for golfers who are new or otherwise struggle. Everything between the two is fair game for a half decent golfer. If you find yourself in the extremes, you either fit the stereotype or are an extreme exception. It strikes me that there are many more who are trying to convince themselves that they are exceptions, than those who genuinely are.

[Altiman94]

I don't really care what others play or if they are good for them or not. I play what works for me , you play what works for you. Choosing the wrong set only hurts yourself.

[LaggingBehind]

The problem IMO is the oversimplification of why players "should" play certain clubs. Its more complicated than many here are giving it credit. There is no direct relationship between a clubs design and players score, as DeNinny posted. That's where the argument of playing what suits your game vs handicap lies.

Something intriguing I've found since playing blades is that I have a much simpler thought process when approaching the ball. I'm not thinking as many swing thoughts and I'm focusing purely on hitting the ball first on the sweet spot. The amazing feel associated with a pure shot from a blade is easy to remember and feel in my pre-shot routine, its a significant amount of stimulation that activates a larger region of the forebrain compared to a club that numbs any difference in sensation between good and bad strikes. This means improved concentration, feel, awareness, and shot selection for me. That by itself has improved my playing.

The same thing can be true for someone else using GI's, but for different reasons. Considering how this is a mental game more than a physical game, I think its best to play a club that brings your mind to a place where it can perform at its best.

[Little Ned]

[quote name='talksalot81' timestamp='1432223079' post='11601284']
There are 2 extremes - blades and shovels. Outside of this forum, rational golfers know that blades are designed for superb ball strikers and shovels are for golfers who are new or otherwise struggle. Everything between the two is fair game for a half decent golfer. If you find yourself in the extremes, you either fit the stereotype or are an extreme exception. It strikes me that there are many more who are trying to convince themselves that they are exceptions, than those who genuinely are.
[/quote]

I'm that "in between" golfer I think. Of course, your definition of a half decent golfer may be different than mine. I hit a few bad shots each round but don't label myself as "struggling" either. I use GameGolf and can easily see how shaving 1 put off each hole will affect my game. It's not particularly my iron play or tee-shots. Instead of 2-3 putts per hole, just make it 1-2 and I could do so much better.

[tocino]

I play what feels nice on a well struck shot. Do i always strike it on like that every time? no but there's nothing like the feel of the ball coming off of the sweet spot on a forged iron. I play what I like and what I feel comfortable with. I do not feel comfortable swinging an iron head that looks like a shovel even though I'd probably be in the mid to low teens for handicap instead of 20-ish

[lefty787]

I'm about a 12. Used to play mp54s but switched to an old set of 68s. I hit it much better now. May have to do with the fact that the clubhead is lighter but I don't know.

I think people overestimate the difficulty of blades and think that g30s or some other game improvement iron is going to make them that much better. I feel like id shoot around the same scores with blades or GI irons. It's my short game that's the problem...

[J40]

[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1432223649' post='11601374']
The problem IMO is the oversimplification of why players "should" play certain clubs. Its more complicated than many here are giving it credit. There is no direct relationship between a clubs design and players score, as DeNinny posted. That's where the argument of playing what suits your game vs handicap lies.

Something intriguing I've found since playing blades is that I have a much simpler thought process when approaching the ball. I'm not thinking as many swing thoughts and I'm focusing purely on hitting the ball first on the sweet spot. The amazing feel associated with a pure shot from a blade is easy to remember and feel in my pre-shot routine, its a significant amount of stimulation that activates a larger region of the forebrain compared to a club that numbs any difference in sensation between good and bad strikes. This means improved concentration, feel, awareness, and shot selection for me. That by itself has improved my playing.

The same thing can be true for someone else using GI's, but for different reasons. Considering how this is a mental game more than a physical game, I think its best to play a club that brings your mind to a place where it can perform at its best.
[/quote]

A pure shot in the sweet spot feels great with ANY club and I would think is the goal for every golfer. I don't think any club forces you to make any extra mental adjustments or focus any harder. That's something totally different, unneeded pressure. Also golf becomes more of a mental game when you're a good golfer not a double digit hc because you haven't even come close to getting the physical part down. Hitting the sweet spot is pretty much an afterthought for a really good golfer and if you're not doing it WAY more than not then you're not doing anything to benefit your game by playing blades.....but you can beat it around the course with whatever you want for whatever reason you want.

[J40]

[quote name='lefty787' timestamp='1432224307' post='11601492']
I'm about a 12. Used to play mp54s but switched to an old set of 68s. I hit it much better now. May have to do with the fact that the clubhead is lighter but I don't know.

I think people overestimate the difficulty of blades and think that g30s or some other game improvement iron is going to make them that much better. I feel like id shoot around the same scores with blades or GI irons. It's my short game that's the problem...
[/quote]

If you're a good iron player short game isn't much of an issue.....at least not to the point your losing 15-20 strokes.

[DeNinny]

[quote name='lefty787' timestamp='1432224307' post='11601492']
I'm about a 12. Used to play mp54s but switched to an old set of 68s. I hit it much better now. May have to do with the fact that the clubhead is lighter but I don't know.

I think people overestimate the difficulty of blades and think that g30s or some other game improvement iron is going to make them that much better. I feel like id shoot around the same scores with blades or GI irons. It's my short game that's the problem...
[/quote]
So many mid caps can switch to blades and continue to improve and shoot well. A blade is better for shot control and swing feedback which could be why you hit it better. I switched to mp67s as a 16 index and over about three years it continued to drop to a 7.5.

As mentioned, no GI club or any club for that matter universally helps a specific handicap. The manufacturer handicap charts have no handicap data to actually justify them. Conventional wisdom would be to recognize this.

[talksalot81]

[quote name='Little Ned' timestamp='1432223705' post='11601380']

I'm that "in between" golfer I think. Of course, your definition of a half decent golfer may be different than mine. I hit a few bad shots each round but don't label myself as "struggling" either. I use GameGolf and can easily see how shaving 1 put off each hole will affect my game. It's not particularly my iron play or tee-shots. Instead of 2-3 putts per hole, just make it 1-2 and I could do so much better.
[/quote]

I am also. As I see it, most golfers are. If you are capable of consistently getting to the green or chipping, on a par 4,you are in the middle. If you are regularly a full swing away, then you are probably an SGI golfer and if you hit more GIR than you miss, you are a blade player.

[Little Ned]

[quote name='talksalot81' timestamp='1432225963' post='11601694']
[quote name='Little Ned' timestamp='1432223705' post='11601380']
I'm that "in between" golfer I think. Of course, your definition of a half decent golfer may be different than mine. I hit a few bad shots each round but don't label myself as "struggling" either. I use GameGolf and can easily see how shaving 1 put off each hole will affect my game. It's not particularly my iron play or tee-shots. Instead of 2-3 putts per hole, just make it 1-2 and I could do so much better.
[/quote]

I am also. As I see it, most golfers are. If you are capable of consistently getting to the green or chipping, on a par 4,you are in the middle. If you are regularly a full swing away, then you are probably an SGI golfer and if you hit more GIR than you miss, you are a blade player.
[/quote]

I usually find myself putting for a par or bogey. Sometimes, I'll putt for birdie. It's the times I 2 or 3-putt where I lose a lot of strokes. And yes, I do this a lot. (ding, ding, ding I know where I need to practice more!).

It would also help if I felt more comfortable with my driver. I usually hit my 3H off the tee for a nice, steady shot to begin each hole.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1432220474' post='11600874']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432205356' post='11599410']
Does anyone else think that major brand oem executives ever log on here and read this sorta stuff and laugh their butts off and feel a sense of pride about how successful their marketing machine is?
[/quote]

Yes, clearly they pump money into R&D and marketing for multiple types of irons solely because they want to trick people into believing in the science behind GI clubs, and then laugh at them on an internet message board.
[/quote]

You ALMOST got me,,,,,,, until I read it slower. Might want to try this after such a declaration =====>



So many of ANY handicap, ESPECIALLY high ones, can switch to blades and continue to improve and shoot well.

This is because they are at such a lower skill set that simply by playing and practicing more [u]they are likely to get better[/u], not because they play blades. Chances are, IMO, that under the exact same circumstances, they would score better FASTER and enjoy the game MORE playing more forgiving irons.


As mentioned, no GI club or any club for that matter universally helps a specific handicap. But I believe it is a fact that more forgiving irons will help FAR MORE higher handicap players enjoy the game by lowering their scores. Can I PROVE that is a fact ? NO, but I also can't prove the Earth rotates around the Sun rather than vice versa and that is (apparently ?) a FACT.

When a high handicapper, via whatever method they choose, whether it be lessons or on their own, begin to strike the center of the face time after time they can consider more "options" for their game. But the VAST number of golfers are NEVER going to approach an elite level of play (low single digits to Tour Pro) and perhaps more importantly, don't CARE TO. And the vast majority of THEM will enjoy the game by playing more forgiving clubs.

But by ALL MEANS, play whatever you want.


Conventional wisdom would tell anyone that no 2 shots are alike. A a shot once hit cannot be re-hit. Therefore, conventional wisdom would also have to give way to logic and testing on your own.

While I understand the frustration of people over ANY business' over-the-top claims about their products,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The manufacturers gain NOTHING by recommending the "wrong" clubs for your handicap level. They LOSE business to other manufacturers by recommending the wrong clubs. That does not serve [u]their best interests[/u].

And they conceivably have players [u]leave the game[/u] out of frustration over poor play. THAT serves [u]NO manufacturer's best interests[/u]. And I'm guessing (since I don't care to do the research) that [b][u]every[/u][/b] manufacturer would recommend more forgiving clubs the higher the handicap gets.

I expect most INSTRUCTORS would recommend the same. THEY don't increase their business either by having people leave the game.

[c7015]

I think the only way to answer that is by pulling out the impact tape ... my tape says no

[DeNinny]

[quote name='c7015' timestamp='1432227209' post='11601854']
I think the only way to answer that is by pulling out the impact tape ... my tape says no
[/quote]

Or you could use on course experience. My on course experience says 1) SGI wide soled clubs are the worst for my swing, 2) I can shoot my personal bests with blades, and 3) playing a CB set back and forth with my blades results in the same average score and my index changes at the same rate of improvement.

[Bigmean]

[quote name='J40' timestamp='1432222601' post='11601218']
[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1432220474' post='11600874']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432205356' post='11599410']
Does anyone else think that major brand oem executives ever log on here and read this sorta stuff and laugh their butts off and feel a sense of pride about how successful their marketing machine is?
[/quote]

Yes, clearly they pump money into R&D and marketing for multiple types of irons solely because they want to trick people into believing in the science behind GI clubs, and then laugh at them on an internet message board.
[/quote]

They realize it's gonna be hopeless for some segments. Nobody cares what anybody plays imo it's just the argument and "rationale" they provide. Also how something just suits "their swing" while hitting it all over the face and shooting in the 90s. They try to argue forgiveness is a myth and MOI is the devil but based on their own provided data of mishits, 160 5 irons, 180 3 irons, etc how could these things be bad especially for them? I know there's good players on here that play blades but I think most stay out of these conversations.
[/quote]

You guys don't even see how you propagate a cb clubhead debate worse than deninny defends his blade choice, yet only point fingers. You guys can laugh and shrug all you want, for the millions of dollars in R and D, where are the scores? Where is the scoring? Why are most players not 80s golfers? I realize that I am associated as a blades guy because I am, but other than with one certain member when I first got here, I have never made any snippy little girl comments about CBs or "defended" my purchases at all to anyone on here because I play golf in real life, not on the internet. Hell, if you read my posts you would see I never ever even like to discuss clubhead type outside the blades thread, and you would also know that the next set I want and am lusting for is a CB set. So far, two blades players, myself and bladehunter, have made a couple of the best posts on this thread and you all blow by them because it is real golf and real practice and not some internet argument you can try to win at. I sometimes wonder if half the people here even actually play golf at all, let alone to their stated handicap. You know who sounds like they play to a 2.8? The guy that chips a few hundred balls in a bucket with his nephew. You know who sounds like they play to a 30? Anyone that is obsessed about equipment more than actual fundamentals and practicing and playing. Just an observation......

It is possible for many golfers to play their best golf with any type of club head, and it is also possible for many golfers to play poorly and never get any better with any type of club head. That is how I feel, and statistically the scoring over the last 25 years of awesome tech advancements seems to agree. Not to mention this despite the best tech of all, which is our current predictable balls.

[buzlin]

Kinda, no not exactly. If I played the 3i MP15, for sure, so I replaced it. Same for the 4i, so I replaced it too. The 5i is questionable at times, making it "above" my handicap, but I've decided it's there to stay because overall it works out better than the alternative. As for the rest, I think I have the skill to benefit from their attributes, so I think I'm playing to their "designed level" often enough.

Soap box - some make the argument that if you don't hit the sweetspot (varies in size) every time, or damn near close, than you need to hit something more forgiving. Well, crap, I don't hit my wedges in the sweet spot every time, so what would I do in that case? EVERYONE has to figure out the balance that works for them across the whole bag, for whatever reasons they have. I get the general comments about hitting the proper club for your skill set, and agree 100% that those rules apply to the general public as solid advice and guidance. BUT, this is GolfWRX's equipment forum, and there are people here who are OBSESSED with gear and put A LOT (too much?) of time, effort, and brain power into figuring out what works for them. Why is it so hard to believe that the "exception" exists here?

[Bigmean]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1432226928' post='11601816']
[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1432220474' post='11600874']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432205356' post='11599410']
Does anyone else think that major brand oem executives ever log on here and read this sorta stuff and laugh their butts off and feel a sense of pride about how successful their marketing machine is?
[/quote]

Yes, clearly they pump money into R&D and marketing for multiple types of irons solely because they want to trick people into believing in the science behind GI clubs, and then laugh at them on an internet message board.
[/quote]

You ALMOST got me,,,,,,, until I read it slower. Might want to try this after such a declaration =====>



So many of ANY handicap, ESPECIALLY high ones, can switch to blades and continue to improve and shoot well.

This is because they are at such a lower skill set that simply by playing and practicing more [u]they are likely to get better[/u], not because they play blades. Chances are, IMO, that under the exact same circumstances, they would score better FASTER and enjoy the game MORE playing more forgiving irons.


As mentioned, no GI club or any club for that matter universally helps a specific handicap. But I believe it is a fact that more forgiving irons will help FAR MORE higher handicap players enjoy the game by lowering their scores. Can I PROVE that is a fact ? NO, but I also can't prove the Earth rotates around the Sun rather than vice versa and that is (apparently ?) a FACT.

When a high handicapper, via whatever method they choose, whether it be lessons or on their own, begin to strike the center of the face time after time they can consider more "options" for their game. But the VAST number of golfers are NEVER going to approach an elite level of play (low single digits to Tour Pro) and perhaps more importantly, don't CARE TO. And the vast majority of THEM will enjoy the game by playing more forgiving clubs.

But by ALL MEANS, play whatever you want.


Conventional wisdom would tell anyone that no 2 shots are alike. A a shot once hit cannot be re-hit. Therefore, conventional wisdom would also have to give way to logic and testing on your own.

While I understand the frustration of people over ANY business' over-the-top claims about their products,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The manufacturers gain NOTHING by recommending the "wrong" clubs for your handicap level. They LOSE business to other manufacturers by recommending the wrong clubs. That does not serve [u]their best interests[/u].

And they conceivably have players [u]leave the game[/u] out of frustration over poor play. THAT serves [u]NO manufacturer's best interests[/u]. And I'm guessing (since I don't care to do the research) that [b][u]every[/u][/b] manufacturer would recommend more forgiving clubs the higher the handicap gets.

I expect most INSTRUCTORS would recommend the same. THEY don't increase their business either by having people leave the game.
[/quote]

I have noticed that you and I are actually closer in our thinking than would appear. I agree with most of this, but here would be my only argument to someone playing clubs that are perceived as to hard to hit.


How come it is ok and more fun for a once a month hacker to play whatever SGI (and I totally agree, this is what they are for) and this is what the game is about, then why is it perceived in this community in general that it is not ok for a 15 handicap that is hitting the range twice a week and playing once or twice and working hard at breaking 80 and spending their evenings on a golf forum because they are really just putting in a lot of work and trying to absorb and improve to play a club that is somehow deemed more for a 5 handicap? Seriously think about that. The former totally is gaining most from SGI, and wouldn't the latter who is concerned with swing improvements and fun for them is getting better benefit most from basically whatever the hell they want to play?

[gopherguts]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1432226928' post='11601816']
While I understand the frustration of people over ANY business' over-the-top claims about their products,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The manufacturers gain NOTHING by recommending the "wrong" clubs for your handicap level. They LOSE business to other manufacturers by recommending the wrong clubs. That does not serve [u]their best interests[/u].
[/quote]

What further surprises me (OK, not really) is how some people can rail against. say. manufacturers, for misrepresenting/exaggerating claims and leaving out important details, and when THEY make an argument, do the very same thing.

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432228490' post='11601996']
[quote name='J40' timestamp='1432222601' post='11601218']
[quote name='SeaOfGreen10' timestamp='1432220474' post='11600874']
[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432205356' post='11599410']
Does anyone else think that major brand oem executives ever log on here and read this sorta stuff and laugh their butts off and feel a sense of pride about how successful their marketing machine is?
[/quote]

Yes, clearly they pump money into R&D and marketing for multiple types of irons solely because they want to trick people into believing in the science behind GI clubs, and then laugh at them on an internet message board.
[/quote]

They realize it's gonna be hopeless for some segments. Nobody cares what anybody plays imo it's just the argument and "rationale" they provide. Also how something just suits "their swing" while hitting it all over the face and shooting in the 90s. They try to argue forgiveness is a myth and MOI is the devil but based on their own provided data of mishits, 160 5 irons, 180 3 irons, etc how could these things be bad especially for them? I know there's good players on here that play blades but I think most stay out of these conversations.
[/quote]

You guys don't even see how you propagate a cb clubhead debate worse than deninny defends his blade choice, yet only point fingers. You guys can laugh and shrug all you want, for the millions of dollars in R and D, where are the scores? Where is the scoring? Why are most players not 80s golfers? I realize that I am associated as a blades guy because I am, but other than with one certain member when I first got here, I have never made any snippy little girl comments about CBs or "defended" my purchases at all to anyone on here because I play golf in real life, not on the internet. Hell, if you read my posts you would see I never ever even like to discuss clubhead type outside the blades thread, and you would also know that the next set I want and am lusting for is a CB set. So far, two blades players, myself and bladehunter, have made a couple of the best posts on this thread and you all blow by them because it is real golf and real practice and not some internet argument you can try to win at. I sometimes wonder if half the people here even actually play golf at all, let alone to their stated handicap. You know who sounds like they play to a 2.8? The guy that chips a few hundred balls in a bucket with his nephew. You know who sounds like they play to a 30? Anyone that is obsessed about equipment more than actual fundamentals and practicing and playing. Just an observation......

It is possible for many golfers to play their best golf with any type of club head, and it is also possible for many golfers to play poorly and never get any better with any type of club head. That is how I feel, and statistically the scoring over the last 25 years of awesome tech advancements seems to agree. Not to mention this despite the best tech of all, which is our current predictable balls.
[/quote]

I've made two comments in this thread. One to say my two cents on the OPs question, and my second was a reply to the absurd notion that OEM execs have fabricated some ridiculous lie about more forgiving clubs. I have been in these threads before, and I don't really care to rehash a lot of the points, so I ignore them. But when I see a comment as outlandish as that, I think its fair game to shoot holes in these conspiracy theories. I don't want people thinking that its actually true.

[JoeyJoeyJoeJoe]

Ping Karsten Irons, 6 Cap. I played in a scramble against some dudes with Titleist blades who said they were low single handicaps and they could barely get the ball in the air off the tee and the turf. They looked the part but we destroyed them in just 11 holes. My partner was playing with K15 irons.

Don't judge a book by its cover.

[DeNinny]

For 30 years of CB design, no manufacturer has been able to prove they benefit any specific handicap level better than any other club. For all this time, golfers of any skill level have proven that any type of club is best for their game alone and again it varies and there is no correlation to handicap.

This is not a conspiracy theory. It is all fact.

[thaar]

My irons may be rated slightly better than my handicap, but I feel I strike them well overall. I also love the thin top line when I address the ball - I don't think I'd be able to get used to a fat GI iron. I play Mizzy MP-60's and my handicap likely plays anywhere between 12-15 (I haven't officially had one in years). My putting is probably what keeps my handicap worse than where it should be, so it's tough to use your handicap as the only tool for evaluation.

[LaggingBehind]

[quote name='J40' timestamp='1432224413' post='11601504']
[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1432223649' post='11601374']
The problem IMO is the oversimplification of why players "should" play certain clubs. Its more complicated than many here are giving it credit. There is no direct relationship between a clubs design and players score, as DeNinny posted. That's where the argument of playing what suits your game vs handicap lies.

Something intriguing I've found since playing blades is that I have a much simpler thought process when approaching the ball. I'm not thinking as many swing thoughts and I'm focusing purely on hitting the ball first on the sweet spot. The amazing feel associated with a pure shot from a blade is easy to remember and feel in my pre-shot routine, its a significant amount of stimulation that activates a larger region of the forebrain compared to a club that numbs any difference in sensation between good and bad strikes. This means improved concentration, feel, awareness, and shot selection for me. That by itself has improved my playing.

The same thing can be true for someone else using GI's, but for different reasons. Considering how this is a mental game more than a physical game, I think its best to play a club that brings your mind to a place where it can perform at its best.
[/quote]

A pure shot in the sweet spot feels great with ANY club and I would think is the goal for every golfer. I don't think any club forces you to make any extra mental adjustments or focus any harder. That's something totally different, unneeded pressure. Also golf becomes more of a mental game when you're a good golfer not a double digit hc because you haven't even come close to getting the physical part down. Hitting the sweet spot is pretty much an afterthought for a really good golfer and if you're not doing it WAY more than not then you're not doing anything to benefit your game by playing blades.....but you can beat it around the course with whatever you want for whatever reason you want.
[/quote]
I didn't hit the sweet spot on my Nike Vr pro 6i yesterday from 180, but the ball flew just as well as a pure strike straight at the flag and landed 10 feet passed stopping 15 feet behind the hole (on fast greens also). It was only ~several millimeters toe and low of center impact, but didn't feel as sweet yet gave a nice baby draw. In my opinion I missed the shot, but the result was great. Its refreshing to see the shot, feel the swing, then only think about striking the ball well.

If striking the ball well is an afterthought, what do the best golfers in the world think about right before they swing?

[buzlin]

[quote name='JoeyJoeyJoeJoe' timestamp='1432229972' post='11602192']
Ping Karsten Irons, 6 Cap. I played in a scramble against some dudes with Titleist blades who said they were low single handicaps and they could barely get the ball in the air off the tee and the turf. They looked the part but we destroyed them in just 11 holes. My partner was playing with K15 irons.

Don't judge a book by its cover.
[/quote]
Yeah, but that's golf too. Not saying these guys weren't blowing smoke. But I went almost two years without even sniffing 90, and then shot multiple rounds over 90, then back to mid/upper 70s. It happens. Don't think any clubs would have helped me (or these guys by the sound of it) on those days.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432228916' post='11602054']
How come it is ok and more fun for a once a month hacker to play whatever SGI (and I totally agree, this is what they are for) and this is what the game is about, then why is it perceived in this community in general that it is not ok for a 15 handicap that is hitting the range twice a week and playing once or twice and working hard at breaking 80 and spending their evenings on a golf forum because they are really just putting in a lot of work and trying to absorb and improve to play a club that is somehow deemed more for a 5 handicap? Seriously think about that. The former totally is gaining most from SGI, and wouldn't the latter who is concerned with swing improvements and fun for them is getting better benefit most from basically whatever the hell they want to play?
[/quote]

I don't think ANY of the GI guys have said it's "not OK" for anybody to play anything they like.

But as I thought I said earlier the VAST MAJORITY of golfers are out there to have fun. They have the most fun when they SCORE better. As an example, what's the first question one golfer asks another after the round ? It's NOT "How many putts did you take ?" It's NOT "How many fairways did you hit ?" It's NOT "How many GIRs did you have ?" It's "What did ya shoot ?"

More forgiving clubs will help [u]most[/u] golfers score better. Most golfers are married and/or have families and their time for golf is rather limited. They don't have the time it takes to become a highly skilled played. And IMO, only a highly skilled player can take (full) advantage of the benefits a blade can offer. As an example,,,,, a highly skilled player can work that 7 iron draw to a back left pin very nicely. A 10 handicapper is just as likely to overcook that same shot into the lake as he is to hit it close.

I worked in an office all my life. The only practice time I had was evenings and weekends. And on the weekends I wanted to PLAY, not practice. I would hit maybe a bucket during the week. I played most every Saturday and Sunday. I played on a somewhat short course all the time and got down to a 2 on my home course (but no better than a 10 "away").

I have played blades (pre-perimeter weighting) and now that I DO have the time I hit all sorts of blades, PCBs, GIs and the occasional SGI (although my own clubs now are considered SGI by some/many/most). I hit these clubs several times a weeks in hitting bays with monitors.

There is NO WAY I would be a 6 today (no longer at "home" anymore) if I played blades. As sure as some people who regularly play both CBs and blades and score the same with both, I am just as sure I would be [u]at least[/u] 3-4 strokes worse with blades, possibly more

BEFORE, I didn't have the time to become really good (assuming that I even have/had the talent). NOW I don't have the inclination. *I* enjoy the game more when I score lower however that happens. I expect the VAST majority of golfers feel the same. THAT is why I play more forgiving clubs and that is why I believe that [u]most[/u] golfers would enjoy the game more for the same reasons I do - lower scores with more forgiving clubs. Pretty simple "formula",,,,,,,,, to ME,,,,,,,

If one has the time, money and desire (not to mention talent) to become a very talented player then by all means he should at least TRY to check out the advantage(s) a blade offers. Otherwise I believe MOST would enjoy the game more with more forgibeness than a blade offers.

[J40]

[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1432230657' post='11602292']
[quote name='J40' timestamp='1432224413' post='11601504']
[quote name='LaggingBehind' timestamp='1432223649' post='11601374']
The problem IMO is the oversimplification of why players "should" play certain clubs. Its more complicated than many here are giving it credit. There is no direct relationship between a clubs design and players score, as DeNinny posted. That's where the argument of playing what suits your game vs handicap lies.

Something intriguing I've found since playing blades is that I have a much simpler thought process when approaching the ball. I'm not thinking as many swing thoughts and I'm focusing purely on hitting the ball first on the sweet spot. The amazing feel associated with a pure shot from a blade is easy to remember and feel in my pre-shot routine, its a significant amount of stimulation that activates a larger region of the forebrain compared to a club that numbs any difference in sensation between good and bad strikes. This means improved concentration, feel, awareness, and shot selection for me. That by itself has improved my playing.

The same thing can be true for someone else using GI's, but for different reasons. Considering how this is a mental game more than a physical game, I think its best to play a club that brings your mind to a place where it can perform at its best.
[/quote]

A pure shot in the sweet spot feels great with ANY club and I would think is the goal for every golfer. I don't think any club forces you to make any extra mental adjustments or focus any harder. That's something totally different, unneeded pressure. Also golf becomes more of a mental game when you're a good golfer not a double digit hc because you haven't even come close to getting the physical part down. Hitting the sweet spot is pretty much an afterthought for a really good golfer and if you're not doing it WAY more than not then you're not doing anything to benefit your game by playing blades.....but you can beat it around the course with whatever you want for whatever reason you want.
[/quote]
I didn't hit the sweet spot on my Nike Vr pro 6i yesterday from 180, but the ball flew just as well as a pure strike straight at the flag and landed 10 feet passed stopping 15 feet behind the hole (on fast greens also). It was only ~several millimeters toe and low of center impact, but didn't feel as sweet yet gave a nice baby draw. In my opinion I missed the shot, but the result was great. Its refreshing to see the shot, feel the swing, then only think about striking the ball well.

If striking the ball well is an afterthought, what do the best golfers in the world think about right before they swing?
[/quote]

Found Deninny's long lost twin

[Bigmean]

Fair enough gopher, Solid post!

[Bigmean]

Sea of green, lighten up, it was a comment in jest.....text has a way of losing intended purpose.

Everyone knows those execs are busy spending your money spent on latest tech on outlandish family vacations and German automobiles anyway, very little time to stop by forums and laugh

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='DeNinny' timestamp='1432230372' post='11602248']
For 30 years of CB design, no manufacturer has been able to prove they benefit any specific handicap level better than any other club. F[b]or all this time, golfers of any skill level have proven that any type of club is best for their game alone and again it varies and there is no correlation to handicap.[/b]

This is not a conspiracy theory. It is all fact.
[/quote]

Do you have a link to this evidence? I would be very interested to see this, but if there is a large sample size of players of various handicaps using various iron types, with no impact on scores/how they hit their irons, I would be open to seeing it.

Regardless, there is a difference between "OEMs think certain clubs are better for certain players but can't prove it", and "OEMs know its a crapshoot and are intentionally lying to customers because [hole in logic] which leads to more money".

Edit: the "theory" that OEMs are "conspiring" to intentionally lie to their consumers while covering it up behind fake science is the definition of a conspiracy theory. When people claim this is a fact without any proof, or even logical reasoning, it is an insane conspiracy theory.

[SeaOfGreen10]

[quote name='Bigmean' timestamp='1432231236' post='11602388']
Sea of green, lighten up, it was a comment in jest.....text has a way of losing intended purpose.

Everyone knows those execs are busy spending your money spent on latest tech on outlandish family vacations and German automobiles anyway, very little time to stop by forums and laugh
[/quote]

Hard to tell what's in jest, considering I've heard similar comments passed off as fact around here. My apologies.

And with all due respect, those execs could start a marketing campaign of "its the same as last year, but looks different!" and they would inevitably, eventually, be spending my money on vacations.