Right handed golfers should be using a reverse overlap grip for full swing.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432984104' post='11655028']
Is there anyone on any professional tour using this grip ? Top amateur we may have heard of ?
[/quote]

Jim Waldron has already answered this question above.

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432984104' post='11655028']
A few posts above, one claimed that this grip doesn't allow you to come over the top and encourages a better release. True ? If yes, why ?
[/quote]

Yes this is a very good point. I would say you could still come OTT with any grip but the fact that you are guiding the club with you dominant hand makes the task of returning from the proper i.-o. plane simpler to perform. I can only talk of my own experiences with students when they adopt the reverse overlap. They easily adapt to this i.-o. plane even if they have spent a lifetime swinging OTT.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='stryper' timestamp='1433005304' post='11656390']
Despite Jolly's insecurity
[/quote]

Its OK everyone, I've booked an appointment with my shrink.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='TheJollyGolfer' timestamp='1433008668' post='11656560']
[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432984104' post='11655028']
Is there anyone on any professional tour using this grip ? Top amateur we may have heard of ?
[/quote]

Jim Waldron has already answered this question above.

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1432984104' post='11655028']
A few posts above, one claimed that this grip doesn't allow you to come over the top and encourages a better release. True ? If yes, why ?
[/quote]

Yes this is a very good point. I would say you could still come OTT with any grip but the fact that you are guiding the club with you dominant hand makes the task of returning from the proper i.-o. plane simpler to perform. I can only talk of my own experiences with students when they adopt the reverse overlap. They easily adapt to this i.-o. plane even if they have spent a lifetime swinging OTT.
[/quote]

IMO, a reverse overlap grip may help someone get a little more forearm release, but it's not going to solve an OTT move or fix a bad pivot. So if you're combining a new grip with instruction to fix other swing flaws and the combined product works, good on ya ...

Plus, I would think too much dominant hand could be a bad thing as well for some.

[TheJollyGolfer]

No, I never said it only is beneficial for mid to high caps, I taught the reverse overlap to advanced players as well, hundreds of them. As I said in an old post, I taught so many golfers that grip style that folks in the Pacific Northwest golf community could recognize one of my students by seeing the reverse overlap. Two of my four assistants still use it. I just think the Power Grip, which is more in the fingers with only a ten degree diagonal of handle to palm, and all ten fingers on the handle, is superior for most golfers.

 

Jim,

 

As I said in my OP, I have tweaked the reverse overlap over the years and I have also considerably reduced palm contact as you can see from this picture...

 

 

I would love to discuss both your Power Grip and the reverse overlap in depth with you. I think the reverse overlap mentor has possibly found the original mentor. BTW why did you promote the reverse overlap so long ago when most of your peers would have been mocking it. I still have mockers to this day.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1433006592' post='11656450']
You shouldn't have blisters forming from a session on the range or you may be gripping too hard. When I played with this grip the other night I hit two balls on nearly every shot so I basically played 36 holes and while I had some rubbing on my right pinky that could have turned into a blister it didn't hurt the next day and didn't become a blister. It will be calloused within a couple rounds I imagine and won't even do that anymore.
[/quote]

Aithos,

somehow there's been a moment of clarity for you as soon as you were introduced to this grip. Its almost as if everything you experienced before in playing this game had been a lead up to this moment. You are feeling things that took me months to comprehend. Funny I had completely forgotten about the rubbing on the pinkie and you're right it's all about pressure from the left index finger.

[quote name='Aithos' timestamp='1433006592' post='11656450']
Jim, I appreciate your comments but I don't understand why you feel it necessary to call it "one tiny advantage" and not the "secret to better golf". I think we all know there is no such thing as a "secret" to better golf, it's different for everyone and no two golfers are the same. However, this did make a drastic difference in my golf game the first round I played with it. Not a tiny one, not occasionally, but a huge difference on nearly every shot. I got a glimpse of what I'm capable of when I make an adjustment that addresses an issue I didn't even realize I was having and now I need to solidify the change and make it consistent.

I'd been using the interlock grip since 1998 and the overlap didn't work for me, I like the feel of the sensory feedback on my right hand and I really need the help releasing the club since I've struggled with that basically the entire time I've been playing golf.
[/quote]

Spot on. I didn't want to mention Jim's reference to magic/secret moves again. There are fundamentals but unfortunately no magic that I know of.

[iteachgolf]

I have a question about a statement you made earlier. You said you don't judge yourself based on score or result but only how solid the shot felt? You don't care it it goes OB or out of play as long as it is solid? And then you go on to say everyone has had good results that are bad swing?

You do realize the only thing that matters in golf is results and scores and how "solid" you hit it is not written on a scorecard correct?

[JaNelson38]

As someone who plays left handed and has a dominant left hand, this is interesting....especially for me since when I have my problems its usually due to a lack of release and my miss is a weak slice/block. Tried some full swings out in the yard with no balls and let's just say I'm....intrigued. I'll be interested to see how it works on the course. The swings to me felt like they had a bit more "snap" to them.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433021766' post='11657274']
I have a question about a statement you made earlier. You said you don't judge yourself based on score or result but only how solid the shot felt? You don't care it it goes OB or out of play as long as it is solid? And then you go on to say everyone has had good results that are bad swing?
[/quote]

I've been playing the game for 50 years and I am enjoying the game more now than I was when I was writing numbers in those little boxes. It is however difficult to get out of the habit of counting your shots and I won't deny doing that. However I do savor every shot and my in the present, one stroke at a time goal is to hit the ball as sweetly as possible towards the target.

You misunderstood my solid contact thing or I explained it poorly. I get more satisfaction from hitting the ball sweetly, be that off target or OB, than hitting it badly and it end up on the green.

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433021766' post='11657274']
[color=#282828]You do realize the only thing that matters in golf is results and scores and how "solid" you hit it is not written on a scorecard, correct? [/color]
[/quote]

If you are a tour player that is certainly the case but that's not the game I'm playing. I have played some wonderful rounds of golf that looked quite ordinary on my scorecard but they were thoroughly enjoyable. What's wrong with enjoying each shot as a unique event. In that frame of mind the sweet shot OB would certainly be more pleasurable that the jarred shot that made the green. I do realise that most golfers will find this hard to digest but when I am out there, be that tournament play or a bounce game, that's the game I play.

[iteachgolf]

Was just wondering what your thought process was/is.

Is this your swing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWZWdBmoV34

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='JaNelson38' timestamp='1433022335' post='11657324']
As someone who plays left handed and has a dominant left hand, this is interesting....especially for me since when I have my problems its usually due to a lack of release and my miss is a weak slice/block. Tried some full swings out in the yard with no balls and let's just say I'm....intrigued. I'll be interested to see how it works on the course. The swings to me felt like they had a bit more "snap" to them.
[/quote]

I've used this analogy already...

When swinging a club, you have two choices, dominant hand lead or non dominant hand lead. Lets use the analogy...

Either you use a forehand stroke with your dominant hand or you use a backhand stroke with your non dominant hand. My right forehand is better than my right backhand but my left backhand is just awful. I always was a right/dominant hand swinger, unfortunately I had the wrong grip for this for 20 years.

I immediately felt more snap when I gave my dominant hand more dominance with the reverse overlap.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433024299' post='11657460']
Was just wondering what your thought process was/is.
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWZWdBmoV34[/media]
[/quote]

God, I'm a little plump in that video. That's a few years ago.

In this video I was trying to convince myself that path was more relevant to direction than face angle. The New Ball Flight Law guys were annoying me a little with claims that old school guys like me couldn't/shouldn't teach golfers how to shape shots using the Old Laws. In this video, although its not conclusive, my clubface is well shut at address and impact and the path is slightly i.-o., the ball however starts more on swing path than face angle which makes nonsense of what the New Lot are preaching.

Its nice to see that again, apart from the podge.

[MadGolfer76]

And there we have it ^...

[drewtaylor21]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433024299' post='11657460']
Was just wondering what your thought process was/is.

Is this your swing?
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWZWdBmoV34[/media]
[/quote]

Yikes. And "disproving" the ball flight laws no less?! This thread just got really good.

I still think those mountains look incredible! Austria? Switzerland?

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1433025912' post='11657574']
Yikes. And "disproving" the ball flight laws no less?! This thread just got really good.
[/quote]

I did say its not conclusive but if you want to go down that road perhaps we'll open a new thread. This thread is however about the reverse overlap grip, you accidentally changed topic by revealing that remote video. I'm sure you are professional enough to concur.


[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1433025912' post='11657574']
I still think those mountains look incredible! Austria? Switzerland?
[/quote]

Nice try! Yes they are mountains.

[drewtaylor21]

[quote name='TheJollyGolfer' timestamp='1433026739' post='11657628']
I did say its not conclusive but if you want to go down that road perhaps we'll open a new thread. This thread is however about the reverse overlap grip, you accidentally changed topic by revealing that remote video. I'm sure you are professional enough to concur.
[/quote]

Dan posted the video, not me, but I think it has at least some relevance to what many of us have been asking.

Have your views on ball flight changed since that video? Because I'd say this is pretty conclusive evidence that the ball is starting almost exactly where the clubface is pointed, despite the path being dramatically in to out...

[attachment=2782060:Picture 5.png]

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1433027195' post='11657672']
[quote name='TheJollyGolfer' timestamp='1433026739' post='11657628']
I did say its not conclusive but if you want to go down that road perhaps we'll open a new thread. This thread is however about the reverse overlap grip, you accidentally changed topic by revealing that remote video. I'm sure you are professional enough to concur.
[/quote]

Dan posted the video, not me, but I think it has at least some relevance to what many of us have been asking.

Have your views on ball flight changed since that video? Because I'd say this is pretty conclusive evidence that the ball is starting almost exactly where the clubface is pointed, despite the path being dramatically in to out...

[attachment=2782060:Picture 5.png]
[/quote]

The video is at best inconclusive.You have better eyes than me if you can see the direction of that blurred clubface. With modern technology we can dial up these stats and facts. So, you are using science to explain what happened in this video and not evidence from a very blurry video.

Of course face has more influence on flight than we once thought but it hasn't significantly changed how I shape shots or teach students how to do it. The problem isn't playing away from the tree, the difficulty is having the correct face angle to steer the ball back to the target. In this video, I am plain and simply demonstrating how to do both.

Can we drop this boring rubbish? Or at least take it up on a relevant thread.

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='drewtaylor21' timestamp='1433025912' post='11657574']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433024299' post='11657460']
Was just wondering what your thought process was/is.

Is this your swing?
[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWZWdBmoV34[/media]
[/quote]

Yikes. And "disproving" the ball flight laws no less?! This thread just got really good.

I still think those mountains look incredible! Austria? Switzerland?
[/quote]

Drew's right ... definitely Austria.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1433028794' post='11657790']
Drew's right ... definitely Austria.
[/quote]

I'll give you a better clue...

I've just finished lunch and I'm heading off to the driving range. Speak again tonight.

[Ghost of Snead]

Google is your friend ...

[notsohard]

[quote name='TheJollyGolfer' timestamp='1433029229' post='11657818']
[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1433028794' post='11657790']
Drew's right ... definitely Austria.
[/quote]

I'll give you a better clue...

I've just finished lunch and I'm heading off to the driving range. Speak again tonight.
[/quote]


land of the fesh n' cheps at sex dollars a bag.

[Drudersh]

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433024299' post='11657460']
Was just wondering what your thought process was/is.

Is this your swing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWZWdBmoV34
[/quote]

http://youtu.be/LHhth9CmbJ8

[Drudersh]

[quote name='TheJollyGolfer' timestamp='1433024095' post='11657448']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433021766' post='11657274']
I have a question about a statement you made earlier. You said you don't judge yourself based on score or result but only how solid the shot felt? You don't care it it goes OB or out of play as long as it is solid? And then you go on to say everyone has had good results that are bad swing?
[/quote]

I've been playing the game for 50 years and I am enjoying the game more now than I was when I was writing numbers in those little boxes. It is however difficult to get out of the habit of counting your shots and I won't deny doing that. However I do savor every shot and my in the present, one stroke at a time goal is to hit the ball as sweetly as possible towards the target.

You misunderstood my solid contact thing or I explained it poorly. I get more satisfaction from hitting the ball sweetly, be that off target or OB, than hitting it badly and it end up on the green.

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433021766' post='11657274']
[color=#282828]You do realize the only thing that matters in golf is results and scores and how "solid" you hit it is not written on a scorecard, correct? [/color]
[/quote]

If you are a tour player that is certainly the case but that's not the game I'm playing. I have played some wonderful rounds of golf that looked quite ordinary on my scorecard but they were thoroughly enjoyable. What's wrong with enjoying each shot as a unique event. In that frame of mind the sweet shot OB would certainly be more pleasurable that the jarred shot that made the green. I do realise that most golfers will find this hard to digest but when I am out there, be that tournament play or a bounce game, that's the game I play.
[/quote]

Here's a post Jolly made under his handle on TST that directly contradicts his statement here.


#33 of 54
6/23/12
Patrick57
Banned Users
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post


I mean, would YOU take lessons for a guy who shoots a 148??? LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

Ha. I missed the 9 holes bit! His high self-regard makes even less sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Con View Post

I don't doubt that swing could shoot a 74 on a par-60 executive course. Given a lot of tries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post


"Keep in mind though, thats a 74 for 9 holes.

I'm glad you all noticed the 74 for 9 holes bit. I can be an amusing guy sometimes. To clarify...

My home course is a 9 hole, 3,400 par 36 and I usually shoot 34 to 39 depending on my putting. I often play the course with beginners and use only my 9 iron and average 45 shots this way. I have been teaching full time for 15 years and have yet to meet a better scorer than myself. I'm sure Rory, Tiger, Luke and Lee would whip my a**, but I haven't met or played against them.

My student's appreciate my coaching abilities and admire my shot making talents.

I think your comments are non-constructive and a little bitter. I like my swing and its very effective,

P.S. ITS NICE TO BE NICE!"

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Drudersh' timestamp='1433039581' post='11658676']
[quote name='TheJollyGolfer' timestamp='1433024095' post='11657448']
[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433021766' post='11657274']
I have a question about a statement you made earlier. You said you don't judge yourself based on score or result but only how solid the shot felt? You don't care it it goes OB or out of play as long as it is solid? And then you go on to say everyone has had good results that are bad swing?
[/quote]

I've been playing the game for 50 years and I am enjoying the game more now than I was when I was writing numbers in those little boxes. It is however difficult to get out of the habit of counting your shots and I won't deny doing that. However I do savor every shot and my in the present, one stroke at a time goal is to hit the ball as sweetly as possible towards the target.

You misunderstood my solid contact thing or I explained it poorly. I get more satisfaction from hitting the ball sweetly, be that off target or OB, than hitting it badly and it end up on the green.

[quote name='iteachgolf' timestamp='1433021766' post='11657274']
[color=#282828]You do realize the only thing that matters in golf is results and scores and how "solid" you hit it is not written on a scorecard, correct? [/color]
[/quote]

If you are a tour player that is certainly the case but that's not the game I'm playing. I have played some wonderful rounds of golf that looked quite ordinary on my scorecard but they were thoroughly enjoyable. What's wrong with enjoying each shot as a unique event. In that frame of mind the sweet shot OB would certainly be more pleasurable that the jarred shot that made the green. I do realise that most golfers will find this hard to digest but when I am out there, be that tournament play or a bounce game, that's the game I play.
[/quote]

Here's a post Jolly made under his handle on TST that directly contradicts his statement here.


#33 of 54
6/23/12
Patrick57
Banned Users
Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post


I mean, would YOU take lessons for a guy who shoots a 148??? LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdl View Post

Ha. I missed the 9 holes bit! His high self-regard makes even less sense...

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-Con View Post

I don't doubt that swing could shoot a 74 on a par-60 executive course. Given a lot of tries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaijinGolfer View Post


"Keep in mind though, thats a 74 for 9 holes.

I'm glad you all noticed the 74 for 9 holes bit. I can be an amusing guy sometimes. To clarify...

My home course is a 9 hole, 3,400 par 36 and I usually shoot 34 to 39 depending on my putting. I often play the course with beginners and use only my 9 iron and average 45 shots this way. I have been teaching full time for 15 years and have yet to meet a better scorer than myself. I'm sure Rory, Tiger, Luke and Lee would whip my a**, but I haven't met or played against them.

My student's appreciate my coaching abilities and admire my shot making talents.

I think your comments are non-constructive and a little bitter. I like my swing and its very effective,

P.S. ITS NICE TO BE NICE!"
[/quote]

Further supports my comments that all this guy wants is attention and an ego stroke. Good find.

[spider]

I suck at golf. Having admitted that I'm still putting the Jolly swing video on IGNORE. hahahahah

FYI Spieth's grip is interlock. Use Google images you'll see

[Wooderson]

First, I think it's obvious that a culture gap exists here. Jolly is coming off as abrasive and pretentious to some, and they are responding with personal attacks and dismissive behavior in response to his "attitude".

Those who are level headed seem to take the inquisitive approach with an open mind.

To me it seems that this grip will help those who tend to leave the club face open.

[North Texas]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1433087335' post='11660674']
First, I think it's obvious that a culture gap exists here. Jolly is coming off as abrasive and pretentious to some, and they are responding with personal attacks and dismissive behavior in response to his "attitude".

Those who are level headed seem to take the inquisitive approach with an open mind.

To me it seems that this grip will help those who tend to leave the club face open.
[/quote]

I am level headed and JollyGolfer is coming off as abrasive and pretentious with an "attitude".

But I am also taking an inquisitive approach to the idea of using a reverse overlap grip and plan to experiment with it to see what it yields.

[MadGolfer76]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1433087335' post='11660674']
First, I think it's obvious that a culture gap exists here. Jolly is coming off as abrasive and pretentious to some, and they are responding with personal attacks and dismissive behavior in response to his "attitude".

Those who are level headed seem to take the inquisitive approach with an open mind.

To me it seems that this grip will help those who tend to leave the club face open.
[/quote]

This is not a "cultural" issue, and I think characterizing the exchanges here as "personal attacks" adds a bit more drama to the goings-on than there needs to be. He has been nothing but insulting to some people here (really, anyone who has disagreed with him) and I think the fact that some are questioning him about this is perfectly appropriate. I find your characterization of those who would side with such a personality as "level-headed" to be more than a bit misplaced, and actually rather unfortunate.

[Cwing]

The title of your thread should be something more along the lines of "reverse overlapping grip for all clubs may be a solution for many, he us what I do". As far as your current title, you are wrong. What works for some, will not work for all.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='MadGolfer76' timestamp='1433092415' post='11661014']
[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1433087335' post='11660674']
First, I think it's obvious that a culture gap exists here. Jolly is coming off as abrasive and pretentious to some, and they are responding with personal attacks and dismissive behavior in response to his "attitude".

Those who are level headed seem to take the inquisitive approach with an open mind.

To me it seems that this grip will help those who tend to leave the club face open.
[/quote]

This is not a "cultural" issue, and I think characterizing the exchanges here as "personal attacks" adds a bit more drama to the goings-on than there needs to be. He has been nothing but insulting to some people here (really, anyone who has disagreed with him) and I think the fact that some are questioning him about this is perfectly appropriate. I find your characterization of those who would side with such a personality as "level-headed" to be more than a bit misplaced, and actually rather unfortunate.
[/quote]

Like someone said earlier, its more to do with sitting behind a computer screen and trying to hold a conversation. I'm actually an easy going guy and would normally not answer back. This form of media probably gives me a little more courage. I am a bit more sheepish when confronted face to face. I do however don't respond well to shortness or rudeness and perhaps there has been some evidence of this during this post.

[TheJollyGolfer]

[quote name='Cwing' timestamp='1433093435' post='11661102']
The title of your thread should be something more along the lines of "reverse overlapping grip for all clubs may be a solution for many, he us what I do". As far as your current title, you are wrong. What works for some, will not work for all.
[/quote]

Yes, the title is a little confusing but this was addressed very early in the post. With hindsight I would have gone with...

[b]Should golfers guide the club with their dominant hand? If so, a reverse overlap would be beneficial.[/b]