side saddle putters - what putter are you using?

[bluedot]

10 minutes ago, BigEx44 said:

 

No.  At least mine doesn't.

It does not.

[TonyRo]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:04 AM, J_Tizzle said:

So do any side saddlers use Arccos?  I'm just wondering if the big thing is super distracting or not sticking out the end of the putter.  I personally put my thumb on the top of the grip so I'd think it would be really odd.  I use the Shotscope H4 and the tags are super small so it doesn't really bother me, but I'm debating about an Arccos just for the Apple Watch compatibility.  

I am not a side saddler, but I do putt with a broomstick and have the same annoyance. I am honestly wondering if there's any real utility in having the putter sensor on there anyway. I want my putting strokes gained data to be as accurate as possible and so between editing # of putts because of misreads, not catching tap-ins, etc., and editing pin locations and exact distances of each of my putts (I pace them off quickly on my way to my ball), I'm not sure what the point is.

Edited June 22, 2023 by TonyRo

[bluedot]

16 hours ago, TonyRo said:

I am not a side saddler, but I do putt with a broomstick and have the same annoyance. I am honestly wondering if there's any real utility in having the putter sensor on there anyway. I want my putting strokes gained data to be as accurate as possible and so between editing # of putts because of misreads, not catching tap-ins, etc., and editing pin locations and exact distances of each of my putts (I pace them off quickly on my way to my ball), I'm not sure what the point is.

For me, I think the only real benefit of the putter sensor was the summary it gave me of how my putting compared to other golfers.  I don’t know if Arrcos has changed the format, but at the time I was using it, it presented each category by what handicap level you were comparable to.  It’s a quick way to see if you are better or worse than your actual index.  That was reassuring, but that was the only real benefit that I saw.

Edited June 23, 2023 by bluedot

[TonyRo]

I wasn't clear, sorry. My point was not that I didn't want to track my putting stats at all, it's that if you're going to be accurate and edit the exact distances and number of putts (it will occasionally not pick up putts and arccos GPS is, in my experience, not accurate down to the foot and it doesn't always know where the pin is on that day), then there's no point in the sensor picking up the putts anyway - you're going to enter all that info regardless. And so why not remove the sensor if it's a bother? I may test this on Sunday.

[J_Tizzle]

1 hour ago, TonyRo said:

I wasn't clear, sorry. My point was not that I didn't want to track my putting stats at all, it's that if you're going to be accurate and edit the exact distances and number of putts (it will occasionally not pick up putts and arccos GPS is, in my experience, not accurate down to the foot and it doesn't always know where the pin is on that day), then there's no point in the sensor picking up the putts anyway - you're going to enter all that info regardless. And so why not remove the sensor if it's a bother? I may test this on Sunday.

 

Yeah I do think thats the biggest shortfall with my Shotscope.  After my rounds I go home, say hi to the wifey and the baby, grab a beer and go into my office and fix all my stats on my computer.  So I question how accurate it is, but I'm usually just using very round numbers like "Oh I hit it to about 15ft on 2 and then just missed and tapped it in" so I just put the 1st putt around 15ft and then hit the tap in button on the 4th.  So I take the shots gained putting with a huge grain of salt, and mostly just focus on number of putts and rough ft of putts made.

[TonyRo]

Yeah I have just got into the habit of doing all of the editing on the next teebox because I know I'm an idiot and stand zero chance of remembering everything otherwise. The arccos app is very easy to use in this way, so in about 30 seconds I can add all my missed shots if required, edit the clubs in case it screwed it up, and fix the putting distances. 

[J_Tizzle]

10 minutes ago, TonyRo said:

Yeah I have just got into the habit of doing all of the editing on the next teebox because I know I'm an idiot and stand zero chance of remembering everything otherwise. The arccos app is very easy to use in this way, so in about 30 seconds I can add all my missed shots if required, edit the clubs in case it screwed it up, and fix the putting distances. 

 

Thats very helpful, the Shotscope app is about unusable for me, so I have to do all the editing on my PC, thats why I do it as soon as I get home otherwise I'll forget, but usually I can get the gist of thing, remember roughly the yardages and pin positions, etc..  But I guess you get what you pay for on it, since it doesn't have annual membership costs and all that.

[TonyRo]

Yep - I bought the new Shotscope watch and returned it a week later after two rounds. I was also excited about the no subscription fees and the much lower profile, black sensors. I found both the app and desktop interfaces to be basically unusable and just didn't want to bother. The arccos sensors are uglier and bigger and I hate having the neon green nonsense on the top of my clubs, but I absolutely love their app. And I also just trust PING engineering pretty implicitly - they rarely screw up. Pretty tempted by the new Garmin watch and their sensors, which I think look very nice, but it's $$$ and this season has already been super expensive for me. I haven't seen any of the strokes gained data available on that one either yet, after admittedly no real research. 

[BigEx44]

5 hours ago, TonyRo said:

Yep - I bought the new Shotscope watch and returned it a week later after two rounds. I was also excited about the no subscription fees and the much lower profile, black sensors. I found both the app and desktop interfaces to be basically unusable and just didn't want to bother. The arccos sensors are uglier and bigger and I hate having the neon green nonsense on the top of my clubs, but I absolutely love their app. And I also just trust PING engineering pretty implicitly - they rarely screw up. Pretty tempted by the new Garmin watch and their sensors, which I think look very nice, but it's $$$ and this season has already been super expensive for me. I haven't seen any of the strokes gained data available on that one either yet, after admittedly no real research. 

 

I walk off and record my putts manually.  Then enter the data into a free website to get strokes gained/lost.

[The Pearl]

I am experiencing my first major side-saddle slump in a few years   Short putts are a disaster. I am missing to the right and always to the low side on slight left to right putts.

 

Nearly every putt is being hit on the toe.

 

I am assuming most likely culprit is deacceleration.  I am also feeling a bit uncomfortable over the ball.

 

Any thoughts?

 

[Joe Duffer]

1 hour ago, The Pearl said:

I am experiencing my first major side-saddle slump in a few years   Short putts are a disaster. I am missing to the right and always to the low side on slight left to right putts.

 

Nearly every putt is being hit on the toe.

 

I am assuming most likely culprit is de-acceleration.  I am also feeling a bit uncomfortable over the ball.

 

Any thoughts?

 

- Do you sole the putter (79-80°) or do you hang the shaft vertically (90°)?

- What side-saddle putter are you using?

- At address, where do you place the ball in relationship to your lead foot?

- At address, where is your dominant eye in relationship to the golf ball?

- How do you grip the putter?

 

[The Pearl]

49 minutes ago, Joe Duffer said:

- Do you sole the putter (79-80°) or do you hang the shaft vertically (90°)?

- What side-saddle putter are you using?

- At address, where do you place the ball in relationship to your lead foot?

- At address, where is your dominant eye in relationship to the golf ball?

- How do you grip the putter?

 

 

 

Hi Joe,

 

-I sole the putter

-Bobby Grace F-22

- The ball is out in front of my lead foot. Maybe 3-4 inches.

- Right eye dominant, right handed.   Right eye appears to be inside the target line.  This might be a red flag.

- Grip the top with thumb on the shaft and knuckles forward.  Right hand down the shaft and the hand behind the shaft, but not necessarily with palm facing the target.  No claw/pencil grip and I don't use the top hand as recommended by Randy Haag.

 

 

 

[J_Tizzle]

delete

Edited June 27, 2023 by J_Tizzle

[bluedot]

11 hours ago, The Pearl said:

I am experiencing my first major side-saddle slump in a few years   Short putts are a disaster. I am missing to the right and always to the low side on slight left to right putts.

 

Nearly every putt is being hit on the toe.

 

I am assuming most likely culprit is deacceleration.  I am also feeling a bit uncomfortable over the ball.

 

Any thoughts?

 

A decelerating putting stroke is maybe the most common reason for a slump, no matter what style you use.  
 

If that’s what’s going on, try this as a drill.  Find a straight flat putt on the practice green, and put an alignment stick just outside each edge of the cup, extending back parallel to each other so that you have a 4’ putt.  Use that as “ guardrails” for you putter, and concentrate on taking the putter right down that track toward the hole.  Do NOT judge the putt, just the stroke going down the track.

 

If you do this enough, you’ll be able to “see” a track for your putter to follow when you’re actually playing.

[RANGERS032]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

A decelerating putting stroke is maybe the most common reason for a slump, no matter what style you use.  
 

If that’s what’s going on, try this as a drill.  Find a straight flat putt on the practice green, and put an alignment stick just outside each edge of the cup, extending back parallel to each other so that you have a 4’ putt.  Use that as “ guardrails” for you putter, and concentrate on taking the putter right down that track toward the hole.  Do NOT judge the putt, just the stroke going down the track.

 

If you do this enough, you’ll be able to “see” a track for your putter to follow when you’re actually playing.

You can also try counting "one" on the back stroke and "two" on the forward stroke   I found it evens out the stroke and seems much straighter.  Almost like you're pushing the ball to the hole.

[The Pearl]

Thanks everybody for the great suggestions.

 

I am playing tomorrow so I will let you know how things go.

 

 

[J_Tizzle]

22 hours ago, RANGERS032 said:

You can also try counting "one" on the back stroke and "two" on the forward stroke   I found it evens out the stroke and seems much straighter.  Almost like you're pushing the ball to the hole.

 

Thats one of the big things I've noticed.  I've seen videos and try to really push through on the follow through and extend through towards the target, but it makes me stabby taking it back real short and then trying to extend way through the ball.

[PNWGuy]

I have been experimenting with a used BG LFI putter.  The Face On method shows promise but I have a question about the A** Kicker shaft.  It moves the CG of the away from the face so if the putter hangs with the shaft vertical, the face gains loft.  I know 0 – 1 degree loft is ideal for Face On putting, so should I address the ball with my top hand forward of the ball or should I let the shaft hang vertically?

 

Thanks for the advice, this thread is the best source of information I have found.

[mshills]

Cut my TearDrop down from over 48" to current 41.75".  It is basically like a belly putter but very upright lie.  I think this length is right -- I can't vary the L hand anchor point very much (my L elbow does not work -- does not bend) except by posture or knee bend.  R foot in front of left, more weight forward on my R foot, and slight bend at the waist.  Need more consistent ball position.  Right now I'm keeping it just in front of my R toes and about a putter width to the R of my R foot.  Any advice on ball position or other setup points?

 

Have been hitting lots of putts on my Big Moss.  Can't say I'm comfortable yet -- I do not feel relaxed over the ball at all, but damned if I haven't been making a lot of putts.  Took it to the course for the first time on Sun -- tried to get an emergency 9 in in between tstorms:

 

#1:  9i to 8', center-cut the putt.  🙂

#2:  PW to 20', easy 2 putt

#3:  GW to 12', missed left by 3"

#4:  GW long left to 55',  easy 3 putt 😡

 

Had to quit after 4, heavy tstorm.  Felt really good so far.  The 3 putt on #4 was a piss-poor wedge shot, not putting that one on the putter or the puttee.

[J_Tizzle]

On 7/11/2023 at 4:03 PM, mshills said:

Cut my TearDrop down from over 48" to current 41.75".  It is basically like a belly putter but very upright lie.  I think this length is right -- I can't vary the L hand anchor point very much (my L elbow does not work -- does not bend) except by posture or knee bend.  R foot in front of left, more weight forward on my R foot, and slight bend at the waist.  Need more consistent ball position.  Right now I'm keeping it just in front of my R toes and about a putter width to the R of my R foot.  Any advice on ball position or other setup points?

 

Have been hitting lots of putts on my Big Moss.  Can't say I'm comfortable yet -- I do not feel relaxed over the ball at all, but damned if I haven't been making a lot of putts.  Took it to the course for the first time on Sun -- tried to get an emergency 9 in in between tstorms:

 

#1:  9i to 8', center-cut the putt.  🙂

#2:  PW to 20', easy 2 putt

#3:  GW to 12', missed left by 3"

#4:  GW long left to 55',  easy 3 putt 😡

 

Had to quit after 4, heavy tstorm.  Felt really good so far.  The 3 putt on #4 was a piss-poor wedge shot, not putting that one on the putter or the puttee.

 

Distance control is still the thing I practice most when side saddling.  I always think of the whole "its easy to miss a putt 5ft long or shot, but much harder to miss it 5ft off line" .  So thats where the majority of my practice time is with the side saddle, just putting 50ft putts back and forth across the putting green, vs hitting 5ft putts, because with this style I KNOW I can start it on line, its just getting the speed right 99/100.

[mshills]

Based on one full round, the side saddle experiment might be sticking around for a while.  I putted very well, and jarred a couple of twelve-footers.

Speed control was good all day.  Twice I got it wrong -- first from 55 feet, second time was from a few feet off the green.  Need a whole lot more repetition before I feel comfortable there, but from inside 20 feet I was right around the hole all day, and no stress on 4 foot putts at all.

[bluedot]

18 hours ago, mshills said:

Based on one full round, the side saddle experiment might be sticking around for a while.  I putted very well, and jarred a couple of twelve-footers.

Speed control was good all day.  Twice I got it wrong -- first from 55 feet, second time was from a few feet off the green.  Need a whole lot more repetition before I feel comfortable there, but from inside 20 feet I was right around the hole all day, and no stress on 4 foot putts at all.

I’m glad it worked for you!

 

I would urge you to remember that getting the speed wrong from 55 feet or from the fringe may not have much to do with the putting method you are using.  This is one of the dangers I’d face on; there are so few of us that we tend to treat everything as sort of a referendum on the method we’re using.

I think Tour pros 3 putt from over 50’ about 20% of the time, so it’s about more than method.  I try to remind myself in situations like that that I had an approach issue more than a putting issue, and I think that’s the right way to view being that far from the hole no matter what putting method you employ.

 

As to the fringe, it’s much the same, and arguably a bit worse, depending on the loft of your putter and the particular shot you face.  I don’t putt from the fringe much because my putter only has 1* of loft and the ball tends to pop up and not go very far; I rely heavily on my 4 hybrid from the fringe.  But again, that may well be an approach issue more that a putting issue, regardless of HOW you putted.

[J_Tizzle]

On 7/18/2023 at 9:37 AM, bluedot said:

I’m glad it worked for you!

 

I would urge you to remember that getting the speed wrong from 55 feet or from the fringe may not have much to do with the putting method you are using.  This is one of the dangers I’d face on; there are so few of us that we tend to treat everything as sort of a referendum on the method we’re using.

I think Tour pros 3 putt from over 50’ about 20% of the time, so it’s about more than method.  I try to remind myself in situations like that that I had an approach issue more than a putting issue, and I think that’s the right way to view being that far from the hole no matter what putting method you employ.

 

As to the fringe, it’s much the same, and arguably a bit worse, depending on the loft of your putter and the particular shot you face.  I don’t putt from the fringe much because my putter only has 1* of loft and the ball tends to pop up and not go very far; I rely heavily on my 4 hybrid from the fringe.  But again, that may well be an approach issue more that a putting issue, regardless of HOW you putted.

 

Good points, no matter how you putt, once you hit that 40ish ft you're probably close to a 50/50 2-putt vs 3-putt for most golfers no matter how you putt.  Side saddle putting has given me some headaches from longer distances and honestly its the hardest part of putting this way, but I've slowly learned to pull the ball back father in my set up the longer the putt gets and its helped a ton.  

[mshills]

Yes, my point was putting a GW 55 feet above the hole on the top tier of a three-tier green then taking three to get down from there isn’t poor putting, it was a piss poor GW. 😁

 

Am only 22 holes into the side saddle test so a long way to go, but it is effective enough so far to continue the test!

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

Quick question. For those of you that switched to the DF2.1 from the BG F22 (bluedot and bigex?) I have a couple of questions for you. 
 

1.  Which of the two are you now using ?

2. When buying, what customisation options did you go for? On the LAB website I see many such as style of putting = standard or broomstick (no dropdown option for us side saddlers I notice!!!) 😀

 

not sure I’m prepared to drop 600 dollars on one but never say never !  If know what specs I’m looking for I guess I can keep my eye out on eBay. 
 

I was thinking a putting style broomstick and lie angle of 79.5 degrees plus a 43 inch shaft etc although they seem to do lots of options of those too !!!

 

any advice appreciated. 

 

thanks !

 

matt

[bluedot]

3 hours ago, CanPuttWillPutt2 said:

Quick question. For those of you that switched to the DF2.1 from the BG F22 (bluedot and bigex?) I have a couple of questions for you. 
 

1.  Which of the two are you now using ?

2. When buying, what customisation options did you go for? On the LAB website I see many such as style of putting = standard or broomstick (no dropdown option for us side saddlers I notice!!!) 😀

 

not sure I’m prepared to drop 600 dollars on one but never say never !  If know what specs I’m looking for I guess I can keep my eye out on eBay. 
 

I was thinking a putting style broomstick and lie angle of 79.5 degrees plus a 43 inch shaft etc although they seem to do lots of options of those too !!!

 

any advice appreciated. 

 

thanks !

 

matt

I’m still using the DF.  I’m just more confident of the release on short putts and on very fast greens.

 

As to specs, I had them build it at 44”, with the max lie angle (I think they go to 79* instead of 80*, which is common) and I told them where I wanted the lower part of the split grip positioned.  They recommend 500g as the head weight for their broomstick putters; I went with that and like it.

 

The 44” length is my outcome from trial and error back when I first started this.  Nothing magic about it; it’s just what feels most comfortable to me.

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

41 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I’m still using the DF.  I’m just more confident of the release on short putts and on very fast greens.

 

As to specs, I had them build it at 44”, with the max lie angle (I think they go to 79* instead of 80*, which is common) and I told them where I wanted the lower part of the split grip positioned.  They recommend 500g as the head weight for their broomstick putters; I went with that and like it.

 

The 44” length is my outcome from trial and error back when I first started this.  Nothing magic about it; it’s just what feels most comfortable to me.

thanks Bluedot. I wish I could try one ! 😳

[CanPuttWillPutt2]

16 minutes ago, CanPuttWillPutt2 said:

thanks Bluedot. I wish I could try one ! 😳

Does everyone with the DF sole the putter? Looks to me you can’t hold it at all nearer 90 degrees let alone vertical?

[Horseshoe2]

Somewhat related, I looked at the different DF putters. I like the balance issue. However, I ended up with the Honu. The face feel is dramatically better. Honu does not make a long putter but I had them drill the hole at 79 degrees and installed a long shaft myself. Price is a little better as well. Any club shop could install the shaft if you are not comfortable doing it yourself. I vacillate between this one, the BG Proto and the Bomer Blaze. 

[bluedot]

8 hours ago, CanPuttWillPutt2 said:

Does everyone with the DF sole the putter? Looks to me you can’t hold it at all nearer 90 degrees let alone vertical?

The DF needs to be soled, if only for the technology to work properly.  That aside, the sweet spot gets really small if you tilt it toward 90*.

 

The 90* thing has never bothered me; I’ve just never felt like it was a good trade off to give up some technology for 10* of verticality.  That’s just me; I know and understand that it matters a lot to some.