If you struggle with the Zipper away move/feel.

[vaterman]

Montes zipper away video always made a lot of sense to me conceptually. But I have never been able to implement it. I have implemented my share of counterintuitive moves so I am well aware of the initial struggle you face when trying to make a swing change. My problems with zipper away went beyond that – as impossible as if I were to take my stance with my back to the ball. On occasion I would get a clear feeling of zipper away but that always happened as a result of something entirely different I was working on. Annoyed me because when I did hit the ball pure with lots of speed (for me) I would feel the zipper away.

 

Whenever I do have a light-bulp moment I am always hesitant to declare “this is it. I found the secret”. Normally I want to see a positive change for a number of rounds and practice sessions before making decisive conclusions. Also I have learned to be selective with instructional advices and try to follow only advices that seek the same result but explained in different ways. Just like Monte says that he has 100’s of YT videos that explains only 4 or 5 issues in different ways.

 

But today I stand here before you all and the golf gods almost ready to declare “This is it. There was a secret and I found it. Golfswing has been solved. From here on eternal and constant improvement is my destiny.” (Take it with a grain of salt and a little humor)

 

Let me thank jbw749 for bringing my attention to Chris Ryan on YT. Jbw made a thread and out of curiosity I checked some of his videos. Found them pretty good and more or less along the line of most of the instructors in here. But I also saw this one which had an entirely different perspective but to me was another way to explain the zipper away.

 

When I saw the video I didn’t pay much attention to it. Then last night I had an hour to kill at the range. Hit the ball decent. Didn’t really work on anything serious but was merely practicing hitting different lengths with the same iron and just had a little exercise and fun. Can’t say why but I came to think of this video and thought to give this feel/move a try. It seemed so odd and counterintuitive that I thought it could be kind of funny to see how that felt. Did not expect any improvement at all.

 

First shot I absolutely nutted it. Hit my 7 iron longer than Montes hits a 3-wood (almost). But never mind the distance. The impact… Oh the impact… It was out of this world. And I felt a freedom in the swing. Hard to describe really. But freedom. Not only that. Also there was the zipper away feel, the right elbow chasing the bellybutton, transition, sequencing and tons of space for the arms. Confident this first try out was a fluke, a trap set by the malicious golf gods to lead me down the quick fix track I tried some more. I just kept hitting it like a dream. Sure there will be some butterfly effect and some fine tuning of grip, ball placement etc. but I am confident now that THIS was a vital part for me to understand.

 

A little caution if you will try it. Make sure you that you maintain the forward tilt. For me this concept did invite me to stand up and swing to flat if I got a little careless so I had to pay attention that I kept my forward tilt.

[Golfah]

If you want to see the original, more entertaining version:

[color=#BBBBBB][size=2][background=rgba(28, 28, 28, 0.8)]https://youtu.be/15n3acpvyT4[/background][/size][/color]

[vaterman]

[quote name='Golfah' timestamp='1442842107' post='12343508']
If you want to see the original, more entertaining version:

[color=#BBBBBB][size=2][background=rgba(28, 28, 28, 0.8)][url="https://youtu.be/15n3acpvyT4"]https://youtu.be/15n3acpvyT4[/url][/background][/size][/color]
[/quote]
Thanks. Asolutely more entertaining but I am afraid my English is in-suficient to get it

[Tro]

Thanks for posting this, vaterman!
I have never seen video, or the foot work described in this manner. Most advice talks of rolling the trail foot, but the clock wise action makes a lot of sense to me and really highlights how to use the ground forces. I'll have to try this at the range now... Hoping for good outcomes.

[gregflat9]

Great vid and I think it's the zipper drill but with emphasis on the foot rather than the hips. Both are great - good spot!

[peachfuzz]

So, the feeling would be like the heel comes inside instead of out?

I like the zipper drill, but it feels too exaggerated when I try to do it myself, so this is something I'm going to try. My foot roll is most certainly counterclockwise, and is likely working cross purposes when trying to do the zipper drill.

[vaterman]

Yes.

The heel doesn't actually move because it is planted on the ground. But if you raised your right heel it probabaly would spin in towward the middle of your stance.

What I like about this is that there really is no question of how much you do it. Whether too much or too little or trying to translate a feel into a move. It is very simple. When I first saw the video I thought that I already "turned" my right foot clockwise. Then I tried it and it was evident that I did turn my foot counter clockwise. It felt unbelieveable strange "turning" the foot clockwise but instantly I felt all these desirable things happening. And also a potential for a lot more speed.

Again make sure you don't lose forward tilt. To me the drill "invited" to stand more erect after a while and that leads to trouble.

I wellcome anyone who gives this a try to post the result here.

[dolleris]

Nice find, thanks!

[stuboy]

Giving it a go sans club it certainly feels very strange but guess it's worth a shot next time I make it to the range.

[talkingstick123123]

Sweet thanks for this! Definitely going to try this out. With the zipper away move, I would always exaggerate the hip move. So it's nice to have something else to focus on.

[leekgolf]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1442906294' post='12348680']
Yes.

The heel doesn't actually move because it is planted on the ground. But if you raised your right heel it probabaly would spin in towward the middle of your stance.

What I like about this is that there really is no question of how much you do it. Whether too much or too little or trying to translate a feel into a move. It is very simple. When I first saw the video I thought that I already "turned" my right foot clockwise. Then I tried it and it was evident that I did turn my foot counter clockwise. It felt unbelieveable strange "turning" the foot clockwise but instantly I felt all these desirable things happening. And also a potential for a lot more speed.

Again make sure you don't lose forward tilt. To me the drill "invited" to stand more erect after a while and that leads to trouble.

I wellcome anyone who gives this a try to post the result here.
[/quote]

I think Greg Norman did this, including lifting his heel. Stop the video at 0:11

https://youtu.be/ATOLYrebHZA

[vaterman]

Great find Leek. I think you are right. It looks like Normann is doing this. And yes right heel does lift at some point in the downswing.I meant it doesn't lift during backswing and in transition.

[vaterman]

Had another session at the range last night. Curious to see if the positive results from my previous session lasted.

It did. The shot pattern continued. Out of 2 small buckets only one really bad one. I did not pure every shot but the bad ones would serve just fine out on the course. Misses was a slight tendency to go a little left but no way near my usual miss which is a massive hook.

This time I also got to try it out with my longest hybrid and driver. The butterfly effect made it necessary to do some minor adjustments in my set-up but once that was in place I nearly felt ready to challenge Monte in driving distance. He could use the driver and I would use my hybrid and beat him (remember that feel isn’t real ). The driver was a little shaky direction wise but after some tweeks and fine tunings. Pure Tailormade commercial with the added distance.

I would like to stress that I do not regard this “Ryan-move” as adopting a new swing philosophy. It is merely another way of explaining the bump or the zipper away feel that I simply didn’t get right before. I almost feel like I have to downswing opposite than before when trying to implement these feels/moves. The zipper away, the bump, the secondary tilt etc. becomes a result rather than chased positions.

While working on this right foot clockwise move/feel I started to become much more relaxed over the ball. I felt I didn’t have to use a lot of force.

Another interesting thing was the transition. I used to regard this rare and esoteric subject as something reserved for the truly gifted and simply just a no-no land for me. As a result I also didn’t pay much attention to this video from Chris [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDOBcRUG3p0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDOBcRUG3p0[/url]. But all of a sudden during my practice I realized that the right foot clockwise feel made me do something that I would interpret as a transition. The right foot feel was clearly a transition move for me rather than a throughout the swing feel. Hope you get what I mean.

[360_CS]

Very nice find. Thanks for sharing.

I have that problem. My brother always comments about me cutting across it and the hips moving back and spinning out.

I'm trying it now, without a club, and it feels very foreign to me. I think I'll practise it a bit more before I start trying to hit balls. It also feels like it slows down the hips.

[Gautama]

Kinda reminds me of the Mike Maves secret in the dirt stuff, but without the crazy
http://youtu.be/dAXNglCDcz4

[vaterman]

[quote name='360_CS' timestamp='1443000157' post='12354656']
Very nice find. Thanks for sharing.

I have that problem. My brother always comments about me cutting across it and the hips moving back and spinning out.

I'm trying it now, without a club, and it feels very foreign to me. I think I'll practise it a bit more before I start trying to hit balls. It also feels like it slows down the hips.
[/quote]
No problem.

Yes it feels very strange. Like opposite of your instincts. Thankfully I happened to absolutely pure my shot first time I tried it. It felt so strange that I would have abandoned it straight away if I hadn't pured it.

Of course as always. That it was good for me doesn't automatically make it good for others.

[PJ1120]

It is Maves to a tee

[vaterman]

[quote name='PJ1120' timestamp='1443151755' post='12364840']
It is Maves to a tee
[/quote]
Maves?

[Millbrook]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1443163833' post='12365196']
[quote name='PJ1120' timestamp='1443151755' post='12364840']
It is Maves to a tee
[/quote]
Maves?
[/quote]

Mike Maves - See the post 5 above this one from Gautama with the video.

[vaterman]

[quote name='Millbrook' timestamp='1443167278' post='12365236']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1443163833' post='12365196']
[quote name='PJ1120' timestamp='1443151755' post='12364840']
It is Maves to a tee
[/quote]
Maves?
[/quote]

Mike Maves - See the post 5 above this one from Gautama with the video.
[/quote]
Ahh… It is dawning on me now. In another thread the same clip was posted but the guy on the video was called Sevam. So I didn’t really connect the duds that Sevam are Mike Maves.

And watching the Maves video again I remembered that I have seen that very clip a couple of years ago but didn’t get what he actually meant. The Chris Ryan video was dumbed down enough for me to get it. I can see how it is the same principle but with Maves it comes across as a swing methodology or system. With Chris Ryan it comes across as a component in the swing.

Most of my swing work comes from Montes suggestions and I try not to tinker too much with different methodologies. This “turn” of the right foot clock wise as Chris describes it was merely another way of conceptualizing Montes zipper away (Or more accurate the move made me do zipper away automatically). And with Chris’ explanation I finally seemed to get it.

Now that I have worked with it at the range a couple of times and tried it on the course I start to see and experience what Mike Maves is so excited about. The bottom of my swing arc has simply moved to the targetside of the ball. Something I have desired for I don’t know how many years. I just keep hitting the ball more and more solid. I am excited about this to say the least.

I have had my share of try and error and going from “getting it” to lose it again the next day. I am very familiar with that syndrome but this… this is just different. Like a missing piece of the puzzle that I wasn’t even aware was missing.

I did suffer from “turning” my foot counter clockwise and with that fault trying to do zipper away just makes the block from my right hip bigger and worse. So when I tried to incorporate the zipper away move that is supposed to create space for your arms to come down with the arc bottoming out at the right place I actually made less room for my arms. Now it is completely different. Tons of room. Now I don’t feel I have to steer the clubhead to bottom out the right place. It just happens. Truth be told I kind of feel a complete loss of control of the arms in the downswing. It is after the swing I just see that ball flies great, impact felt unbelievable – like something I have never experienced before – and I have started to take nice divots.

[Oldnavycdr]

There seems to be a subtle difference between Sevam's video and the one vaterman posted. Sevam suggested "pre torquing" the trail foot with a clockwise rotation at setup. I used this for a time but developed a very sore right knee turning into this torqued position so I migrated away from this feel. In the OP's posted video it appears to be more of a dynamic clockwise twist of the trail foot to start the down swing. I will give this a go. Been struggling with EE and just haven't been consistent with the zipper away feel on its own. Thank you for posting this! Perhaps I can eliminate the fats?

[vaterman]

[quote name='Oldnavycdr' timestamp='1443186812' post='12365706']
There seems to be a subtle difference between Sevam's video and the one vaterman posted. Sevam suggested "pre torquing" the trail foot with a clockwise rotation at setup. I used this for a time but developed a very sore right knee turning into this torqued position so I migrated away from this feel. In the OP's posted video it appears to be more of a dynamic clockwise twist of the trail foot to start the down swing. I will give this a go. Been struggling with EE and just haven't been consistent with the zipper away feel on its own. Thank you for posting this! Perhaps I can eliminate the fats?
[/quote]
That is precisely what happened to me. Fats eliminated.
And yes to me the Chris Ryan version is a pretty subtle movement and it feels more like the turn in the downswing changed rather than the right foot spinning. It literally felt like my downswing started to turn the opposite direction. I know it sounds weird because naturally that isn't happening.

[Oldnavycdr]

Perhaps the feel of turning a bit opposite starting the down swing equates to keeping behind the ball? I think we are on to something here. Rained out today but looking forward to taking this to the range.

[vaterman]

[quote name='Oldnavycdr' timestamp='1443191420' post='12366066']
Perhaps the feel of turning a bit opposite starting the down swing equates to keeping behind the ball? I think we are on to something here. Rained out today but looking forward to taking this to the range.
[/quote]
Yearh that may be.
Don't forget though that you maintain forward tilt. After a while the move could "invite" standing up at setup

[b_f_c_99]

I kinda fell into this as well the last couple of weeks. I to had tried the zipper away thing but it didn't click. So I was messing around with bowing my left wrist at the top of the backswing and was having this feeling of falling into my left heel as I bowed the wrist. Ball just rockets off the club, I would say two clubs longer. As I read this it hit me that this is what I'm doing butt the right foot turning clockwise is easier to work with than my falling feel. Nice find!

[Golfbeat]

Already for about a year, I have the feeling that this zipper away feel is holding back my true breakthrough to the next level of my golf game. In particular, I struggle with the combination of getting the left hip away from the ball though impact whilst at the same time lifting the left hip up and turning it around to finish with the pelvis up and left of the target. I am working hard on getting more flexibility and strength in the left hip area but it is very hard and it feels very unnatural.

I think that the ability to keep the forward bend through impact, turn the left hip away and then suddenly explode the pelvis up and to the left is what sets the really good players apart from the average players.

[Justmuckit]

Haven't had a chance to take this to the range yet, but in taking some practice swings at home without a ball - it feels pretty foreign, but I've noticed that it's also helping with that 6-8 Ballerina move that Monte discusses. The clockwise rotation of the trail foot almost forces that left knee into a Snead Squat.

[GungHoGolf]

Whatever happened to sevam1/Mike Maves? Is he still teaching golf in the public eye somewhere?

[phillyspecial]

Thinking about this move, as I load into my right side on back swing and right hip gets deep, my trail foot is rotating clock wise as pressure loads into my right heel. My rigght foot then wants to rotate counter clock wise to ultimately end with pressure over my left heel in my finish.

 

To then feel MORE additional clockwise rotation in the transition becomes difficult. But maybe thats my problem.

[JDIL]

Is this zipper away or drop the basket drop the ballerina that Monte teaches?

 

Or maybe it's the same thing.