How do you set up wedges in classic sets.

[deetsal]

I now have a bending machine. Love it. The lies are amazing, most sets are so far off. I will see say a 7 and 8 close to standard then the 6 at like 70 deg.

I set up a set of forged blades from the early 80s. I put the SW at 60, PW at 55, 9 at 50, 8 @ 46 down to the three at 24, added another 3 and put it at 22. They are shorter then my FG Tours, the 8 is the same as the modern wedges. So just kind of shifted things a bit.

I will let you know how I make out.

[birly-shirly]

My loft and lie machine is some of the best money I've spent in golf. I don't believe there's anything that you can do to a long or mid iron that improves its playability more than adding a bit of loft.
And at the other end of the set, getting the lie angles right just makes it that much more pleasant to set up to any shot. As a general rule, I think most stock wedges are upright.
If you can adjust loft and lie, then I think you can buy just about any set of forged blades for buttons and make them highly playable.

[stixman]

'I think most stock wedges are upright'
Did you mean too upright or was it just an observation about set-up for wedges generally?

[birly-shirly]

I mean that standard lie angles tend to fit me ok (although in saying that, I'm generally talking about "old" standard rather than the rather more upright modern OEM standard). I'm not someone who either needs flatter lies generally because of my build, nor am I looking for especially flat lies to fit in with a particular swing philosophy.

But I've flattened just about every wedge I've played, ancient and modern and I don't think you can safely treat wedges as a simple continuation of whatever lie angle progression runs through the rest of your irons. I think any club that you're going to use for more partial swings than full blooded swipes is going to flex less, and needs a flatter lie to compensate. I also think that the consequences of a very lofted club being out of adjustment are much more pronounced. Lastly, there's very little in golf I like less than the feeling of the heel catching in the turf and the clubhead turning over through impact.

[BIG STU]

I am going to throw another thing in the mix and this IMHO not etched in stone. I have never believed in what is called progressive lies in a set of irons. I tape the bottom and hit it on the lie board and go from there for each individual club. I do not worry about the stock standard lie numbers. I just set them where I can hit them.
A good example of different lie numbers for different manufacturers. My Renegar wedges came brand new at 64* lie on all 3. I hit them on the lie board and they were too flat for me so I bumped them up 1* to 65. Had to bump the 60* up one more to 66* but they work for me. Now yesterday I was working on a friend of mine's Mizuno wedge. He is a good player and knows what he needs. He hit that wedge on the course twice and told me it was too flat for him need to be up 1* or so. went to my shop hit it on the lie board and he was correct. Now this was a new wedge and it was standard 65* we had to bump it to 66* also. It worked out fine for him. I hit it and for me it would have had to be bumped appx 1* more for me. See what I mean? I know most Hogan wedges stock sit a little flat for me. Most Clevelands and older 252 series Vokeys sit perfect for me out of the box which is around 65*. I think that is where I developed my feel for my paticular degree feel from. I know back in the day most Wilson and Spalding wedges sat more upright than the Hogans. I checked a R-90 remake I picked up at Goodwill the other day and it sat good in the store. hit it on the lie board perfect. Checked it 65*. If it had say been at 65* and not hit right say too flat i would have maybe had to bump it up some. See where numbers do not mean a thing to me. Just my .02 FWIW

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1450656188' post='12744862']
I am going to throw another thing in the mix and this IMHO not etched in stone. I have never believed in what is called progressive lies in a set of irons. I tape the bottom and hit it on the lie board and go from there for each individual club. I do not worry about the stock standard lie numbers. I just set them where I can hit them.

[/quote]

Completely agree with this, and that's how I tend to go about things. It just does seem to yield lie angles in the wedges that are markedly flatter than the rest of the set

[Fellaheen51]

Lie angles continue to be a rather baffling topic for me. I've read innumerable posts on the subject and continue to be confused by it all. With that said, believe my moderns are to upright and classics are to flat. This off season, would like to undertake the task of "dialing them in" as both of you have done in the quoted posts below. But I do not own a ''bender' and my experience at golf shops are that they fit one into a 6 iron lie and bend up and down from there. Apparently not the best approach. Each club should be adjusted independently for 'best fit' (?). All this before even discussing dynamic vs. static lie, swing changes, adjustment during the off season when the swing is rusty vs. adjusting in mid-season when one has had significant play. My swing certainly does not stay consistent. <head spins>

[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1450656188' post='12744862']
I am going to throw another thing in the mix and this IMHO not etched in stone. I have never believed in what is called progressive lies in a set of irons. I tape the bottom and hit it on the lie board and go from there for each individual club. I do not worry about the stock standard lie numbers. I just set them where I can hit them.
A good example of different lie numbers for different manufacturers. My Renegar wedges came brand new at 64* lie on all 3. I hit them on the lie board and they were too flat for me so I bumped them up 1* to 65. Had to bump the 60* up one more to 66* but they work for me. Now yesterday I was working on a friend of mine's Mizuno wedge. He is a good player and knows what he needs. He hit that wedge on the course twice and told me it was too flat for him need to be up 1* or so. went to my shop hit it on the lie board and he was correct. Now this was a new wedge and it was standard 65* we had to bump it to 66* also. It worked out fine for him. I hit it and for me it would have had to be bumped appx 1* more for me. See what I mean? I know most Hogan wedges stock sit a little flat for me. Most Clevelands and older 252 series Vokeys sit perfect for me out of the box which is around 65*. I think that is where I developed my feel for my paticular degree feel from. I know back in the day most Wilson and Spalding wedges sat more upright than the Hogans. I checked a R-90 remake I picked up at Goodwill the other day and it sat good in the store. hit it on the lie board perfect. Checked it 65*. If it had say been at 65* and not hit right say too flat i would have maybe had to bump it up some. See where numbers do not mean a thing to me. Just my .02 FWIW
[/quote]

I've read your post thru several times Stu. I'm confused on a point. Are you saying that you may have wedge x bent to 66* and wedge y bent to 65*? With the assumption that they are both of the same length, you could end up with two different numbers? And I fully understand that you're bending them to what feels right and the actual numbers are inconsequential. I assume that this takes some trail and error on the lie board and then how they play once on the course/range. Obviously without a bender, a luxury I do not have.

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1450657212' post='12744928']
[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1450656188' post='12744862']
I am going to throw another thing in the mix and this IMHO not etched in stone. I have never believed in what is called progressive lies in a set of irons. I tape the bottom and hit it on the lie board and go from there for each individual club. I do not worry about the stock standard lie numbers. I just set them where I can hit them.

[/quote]

Completely agree with this, and that's how I tend to go about things. It just does seem to yield lie angles in the wedges that are markedly flatter than the rest of the set
[/quote]

B-S, how much flatter are your wedges than the remainder of the set? Do you use some general rule of thumb or does each iron and wedge for every set you play get adjusted independently to your criteria? Again back to what I mentioned above, a 6i lie in one set may be different from another set? Or am I mis-reading it. Do you use standard lie progressions until you reach your wedges?

A couple of basic fitting parameters for myself. I'm 6'3" with a WTF of 38.5". Using the Ping online tool and confirmed with a lie board test that puts me at a 6 iron length of 38.5" (+1.25") and a lie of 66* (Maroon dot, +4.5*). Length feels fine, lie not so much. Especially after swing modifications (flatter plane) this summer. If there is a standard miss as indicated by ball flight and divot taken, its left. Which is usually indicative of being to upright IIRC. I'm reaching the conclusion that if there is lie error, its better to be on the to flat side than to upright.

Do not want this to sound like I'm asking for an online fitting. Just that when I head to a local shop for some bending latter, I would like to be rather specific with them on what I would like done. Plan on adjusting two full sets of irons and wedges, so I'd like to get it right. The "2* upright" number is rather arbitrary without context. The actual numbers seem to be moving around for based on what I've read and preliminary calculations made so far. More so now with what I'm reading about wedge setup. TIA.

[birly-shirly]

Fella - I wouldn't say there's any hard and fast rule. I tend to use either lie tape on the sole and a lie board, or you can do a similar test by inking a vertical line on a ball that you hit. If the line leaves a mark that's other than 90* to your grooves, then you have an adjustment to make.

I would guess that most of my wedges end up around 62*, whereas "standard" seems to be 64*-65*. I don't think either static measurements or even a dynamic fitting for a mid-iron will tell you very much. According to Ping's static charts, I should be playing blue or green. And a soft wedge around the green is a different swing from a 6 iron on the range.

If you're going to a shop, I would see whether they'll offer a fitting and bending service. You could probably save time and money by being fit for every 2nd or 3rd iron in a set and joining the dots. But 2 different sets of irons might need bent to 2 different sets of specs.

I get how frustrating this is though. Trial and error is all well and good but really only if you can adjust your clubs yourself, or have a very understanding fitter. HoldenCornfield had some great posts here with photos showing his improvised DIY loft and lie set up.

[Fellaheen51]

Thx B-S for your reply. Salient points. The first step with any classic iron acquisition are extensions as they are invariably to short. This in and of itself increases the lie angle. (Have a page saved somewhere that involved geometry calculations, 1" increase in length = x increase in lie angle. Just can't find it at the moment). Of late, I've been pushing the whole lie angle issue out of my thought process while playing. Not allowing "spec" to unnecessarily clutter the mind. But this thread, coupled with the off season, has refocused attention on the issue.

The shop that I go to is a independent LGS that charges $5.00 per club for adjustment. The bender is not the fitter. You can see that this could get pricey in a hurry, if I'm to do multiple sets. Plus, spending the $ may not result in the "correct" adjustments if for no other reason than not performing evaluation on each club individually. And in the grand scheme of things, what does it translate to in stroke reduction? Maybe one or two per round at best.

Perhaps the most prudent approach is to adjust a 8i, 9i, PW and SW from one set only and see what occurs. Because, as mentioned, these are the scoring clubs utilized with varying swing speeds. Benchmark of sorts and go from there. Thank for the reminder of the HC DIY setup. I'll have to revisit that one.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1450670503' post='12745814']
Lie angles continue to be a rather baffling topic for me. I've read innumerable posts on the subject and continue to be confused by it all. With that said, believe my moderns are to upright and classics are to flat. This off season, would like to undertake the task of "dialing them in" as both of you have done in the quoted posts below. But I do not own a ''bender' and my experience at golf shops are that they fit one into a 6 iron lie and bend up and down from there. Apparently not the best approach. Each club should be adjusted independently for 'best fit' (?). All this before even discussing dynamic vs. static lie, swing changes, adjustment during the off season when the swing is rusty vs. adjusting in mid-season when one has had significant play. My swing certainly does not stay consistent. <head spins>

[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1450656188' post='12744862']
I am going to throw another thing in the mix and this IMHO not etched in stone. I have never believed in what is called progressive lies in a set of irons. I tape the bottom and hit it on the lie board and go from there for each individual club. I do not worry about the stock standard lie numbers. I just set them where I can hit them.
A good example of different lie numbers for different manufacturers. My Renegar wedges came brand new at 64* lie on all 3. I hit them on the lie board and they were too flat for me so I bumped them up 1* to 65. Had to bump the 60* up one more to 66* but they work for me. Now yesterday I was working on a friend of mine's Mizuno wedge. He is a good player and knows what he needs. He hit that wedge on the course twice and told me it was too flat for him need to be up 1* or so. went to my shop hit it on the lie board and he was correct. Now this was a new wedge and it was standard 65* we had to bump it to 66* also. It worked out fine for him. I hit it and for me it would have had to be bumped appx 1* more for me. See what I mean? I know most Hogan wedges stock sit a little flat for me. Most Clevelands and older 252 series Vokeys sit perfect for me out of the box which is around 65*. I think that is where I developed my feel for my paticular degree feel from. I know back in the day most Wilson and Spalding wedges sat more upright than the Hogans. I checked a R-90 remake I picked up at Goodwill the other day and it sat good in the store. hit it on the lie board perfect. Checked it 65*. If it had say been at 65* and not hit right say too flat i would have maybe had to bump it up some. See where numbers do not mean a thing to me. Just my .02 FWIW
[/quote]

I've read your post thru several times Stu. I'm confused on a point. Are you saying that you may have wedge x bent to 66* and wedge y bent to 65*? With the assumption that they are both of the same length, you could end up with two different numbers? And I fully understand that you're bending them to what feels right and the actual numbers are inconsequential. I assume that this takes some trail and error on the lie board and then how they play once on the course/range. Obviously without a bender, a luxury I do not have.

[quote name='birly-shirly' timestamp='1450657212' post='12744928']
[quote name='BIG STU' timestamp='1450656188' post='12744862']
I am going to throw another thing in the mix and this IMHO not etched in stone. I have never believed in what is called progressive lies in a set of irons. I tape the bottom and hit it on the lie board and go from there for each individual club. I do not worry about the stock standard lie numbers. I just set them where I can hit them.

[/quote]

Completely agree with this, and that's how I tend to go about things. It just does seem to yield lie angles in the wedges that are markedly flatter than the rest of the set
[/quote]

B-S, how much flatter are your wedges than the remainder of the set? Do you use some general rule of thumb or does each iron and wedge for every set you play get adjusted independently to your criteria? Again back to what I mentioned above, a 6i lie in one set may be different from another set? Or am I mis-reading it. Do you use standard lie progressions until you reach your wedges?

A couple of basic fitting parameters for myself. I'm 6'3" with a WTF of 38.5". Using the Ping online tool and confirmed with a lie board test that puts me at a 6 iron length of 38.5" (+1.25") and a lie of 66* (Maroon dot, +4.5*). Length feels fine, lie not so much. Especially after swing modifications (flatter plane) this summer. If there is a standard miss as indicated by ball flight and divot taken, its left. Which is usually indicative of being to upright IIRC. I'm reaching the conclusion that if there is lie error, its better to be on the to flat side than to upright.

Do not want this to sound like I'm asking for an online fitting. Just that when I head to a local shop for some bending latter, I would like to be rather specific with them on what I would like done. Plan on adjusting two full sets of irons and wedges, so I'd like to get it right. The "2* upright" number is rather arbitrary without context. The actual numbers seem to be moving around for based on what I've read and preliminary calculations made so far. More so now with what I'm reading about wedge setup. TIA.
[/quote]


I'm going to confuse you even more, Fella. I apologize in advance....

PIng's fitting system is such that the length and lie angle are not independent of each other. When one starts adding or subtracting length, Ping changes the actual lie angle of the clubs to compensate for the change in "effective lie angle." The idea is to make the effective lie angle of each color code the same [b]effective [/b]lie angle, not necessarily the same [b]actual [/b]lie angle.

Maroon dot is +4.5° at standard length. For each added half inch of length, the lie angle is flattened 0.75° (the opposite would be true for shorter length clubs). At [u][i]Maroon Dot +1.25"[/i][/u], your lie angles would be approximately 1.875° flatter than what they would be at standard (I'd guess they round to either 1.75° or 2°, but perhaps not). The actual lie on a set so configured would then be 2.625° more upright than standard.

If one were to buy only Ping, it would be no big deal, you could order "maroon dot, +1.25" and get what is needed. If one were to buy from another company, it's important to know that difference; you're not really 4.5° upright, but really about 2.5° up, the wedges (or other clubs) can be adjusted accordingly.

Isn't that fun? LOL

[scomac2002]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1450706841' post='12746582']
I'm going to confuse you even more, Fella. I apologize in advance....

PIng's fitting system is such that the length and lie angle are not independent of each other. When one starts adding or subtracting length, Ping changes the actual lie angle of the clubs to compensate for the change in "effective lie angle." The idea is to make the effective lie angle of each color code the same [b]effective [/b]lie angle, not necessarily the same [b]actual [/b]lie angle.

Maroon dot is +4.5° at standard length. For each added half inch of length, the lie angle is flattened 0.75° (the opposite would be true for shorter length clubs). At [u][i]Maroon Dot +1.25"[/i][/u], your lie angles would be approximately 1.875° flatter than what they would be at standard (I'd guess they round to either 1.75° or 2°, but perhaps not). The actual lie on a set so configured would then be 2.625° more upright than standard.

If one were to buy only Ping, it would be no big deal, you could order "maroon dot, +1.25" and get what is needed. If one were to buy from another company, it's important to know that difference; you're not really 4.5° upright, but really about 2.5° up, the wedges can be adjusted accordingly.

Isn't that fun? LOL
[/quote]

That sounds about right to me based on my playing experiences with Pings. I'm yellow dot +.25" which works out to something in the order of 2° upright versus the specified amount from the chart. My modern wedges are supposed to be 64° lie angle. They definitely are playing flat based on ball flight, so probably a 2° adjustment is called for which is about twice as much as I would have been inclined to do by guess and by gosh.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='scomac2002' timestamp='1450707720' post='12746620']
[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1450706841' post='12746582']
I'm going to confuse you even more, Fella. I apologize in advance....

PIng's fitting system is such that the length and lie angle are not independent of each other. When one starts adding or subtracting length, Ping changes the actual lie angle of the clubs to compensate for the change in "effective lie angle." The idea is to make the effective lie angle of each color code the same [b]effective [/b]lie angle, not necessarily the same [b]actual [/b]lie angle.

Maroon dot is +4.5° at standard length. For each added half inch of length, the lie angle is flattened 0.75° (the opposite would be true for shorter length clubs). At [u][i]Maroon Dot +1.25"[/i][/u], your lie angles would be approximately 1.875° flatter than what they would be at standard (I'd guess they round to either 1.75° or 2°, but perhaps not). The actual lie on a set so configured would then be 2.625° more upright than standard.

If one were to buy only Ping, it would be no big deal, you could order "maroon dot, +1.25" and get what is needed. If one were to buy from another company, it's important to know that difference; you're not really 4.5° upright, but really about 2.5° up, the wedges can be adjusted accordingly.

Isn't that fun? LOL
[/quote]

That sounds about right to me based on my playing experiences with Pings. I'm yellow dot +.25" which works out to something in the order of 2° upright versus the specified amount from the chart. My modern wedges are supposed to be 64° lie angle. They definitely are playing flat based on ball flight, so probably a 2° adjustment is called for which is about twice as much as I would have been inclined to do by guess and by gosh.
[/quote]


Sco, it's closer to 1°, the clubs are flattened for added length. Yellow is +1.5°, flatter by 3/8° for the +1/4".

I've mentioned this before, I am one of those who needs upright clubs. Using Ping's static fit chart, I am snugly in white dot territory, getting closer to silver dot at standard length, thanks to my short arms at only slightly above average height. Hitting on a lie board put me at 63° or 64° lie on a Ram 5 iron. I'm currently playing sets slightly flatter than that, and can see a somewhat toe deep aspect to my divots. When will I learn? LOL

This is one reason I never sprung for a set of MP-14s, as they come standard with a 59° 5 iron, at a half inch or more shorter than what I should really be playing.

[Fellaheen51]

Thx NRJ, I guess . I was aware of the Ping color code mechanics from another thread in the tech section from a year or so ago. Math was never my strong suit during my school'in years.

I don't want to get unnecessarily bogged down with the Ping system, but using it as an example. If one is "fit" to a length and lie with their system, then it translates to all clubs Ping. However, if I'm understanding the discourse ITT, that is not necessarily so. A spec for one set of clubs may be different than another (from a raw spec perspective). Then one factors in the all important "feel" into the equation, thats when things go awry quickly.

Or maybe just go out and obtain a damn bender and have at it. Wish it was summer, just go out and play them how they lie (pun intended) and not concern myself with the issue any further. My head hurts!

[Fellaheen51]

That's my point NRJ ^. The classic irons are all over the map spec-wise (length and lie). Not to get overly fixated on the actual numbers. But shouldn't there be a optimum set of numbers that are transferable across all clubs. I guess that is where my confusion lies. Apparent lack of transferability.

[HoldenCornfield]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1450709100' post='12746718']
That's my point NRJ ^. The classic irons are all over the map spec-wise (length and lie). Not to get overly fixated on the actual numbers. But shouldn't there be a optimum set of numbers that are transferable across all clubs. I guess that is where my confusion lies. Apparent lack of transferability.
[/quote]

I've always been a little confused regarding the industry standards of club length vs lie angle.

It seems to me that the goal is to find the lie angle for each club so that your hands are in the same position each time at setup and impact. The last time I checked the lofts/lies on my clubs I grabbed several clubs and got into a comfortable setup position with each. Then I had my wife measure from the floor straight up to the butt of the shaft (ignoring the lie angle of the club, just grounding it and getting comfortable). Each time this measurement was around 32.5". So that's the number I went with for one side of the right triangle (the other side is the distance along the ground to the ball). The clublength is the hypotenuse of the triangle... a^2 + b^2 = c^2, right?

Using a little geometry, you can figure out what the lie angles should be mathmatically. For my 2 iron, which is 38.5", the angle came back as 56.219*. Which is pretty close to the industry standards back in the vintage days (57.5* was considered std, 55.5* flat, and 59.5 upright for a 38.5" club). Nowadays, 59.5* is pretty standard for a 38.5" club.

Anyway, what was interesting to me was the progression of angles. In the old days, the convention was to change the lie angle 1* for every 1/2* of clublength. Today, its more often 0.5-0.75* per 1/2". But what I found mathematically is that, holding the hand height constant (a^2) and shortening the hypotenuse (c^2) by 1/2" each time (changing clublength), I got the following indicated lie angles from my 38.5" 2 iron down to my 35" 9 iron and wedges:

56.219
57.363
58.576
59.867
61.248
62.734
64.344
66.104

The difference in lie angle starts out at just 1.144* between the 2- and 3-iron but ends up being 1.76* between the 8- and 9-iron. On average, its about 1.4* between clubs for the ideal lie angle increment [i][b]if you want your hands to stay at a constant height. [/b][/i]

So I bent my clubs to these lie angles and guess what? Yeah, can't tell a damn bit of difference, lol.

[Eidolon]

I know ya'll want to do this on a vice in the garage, and you can..but...I'm with Stu on this. Best done 1 club at a time with a lie board. It takes longer but it is the better finished product. Every club head/design and shaft combo has a different toe droop and you just can't run the lie numbers off a chart and get the best fit. Plus most players swing long clubs slightly different than short irons. Again moving away from the charted numbers. In my shop if a guy has his numbers he wants, I charge $2.00 per club to bend to HIS specs. But to do a set of irons on the board 1 at a time it is $40.00. Time and knowledge have a price. And those numbers will most likely not fit a different set of irons for the same player. All depends do you desire close enough or perfect? Some folks do not put as much value on perfect lie angle as I do. As in all things it's a personal decision. Mike

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1450709100' post='12746718']
That's my point NRJ ^. The classic irons are all over the map spec-wise (length and lie). Not to get overly fixated on the actual numbers. But shouldn't there be a optimum set of numbers that are transferable across all clubs. I guess that is where my confusion lies. Apparent lack of transferability.
[/quote]


For the most part, yes, though certain designs can throw a bit of figurative sand in the gears. With the usual array of classic blade sets, you're probably fine using the same lie specs for everything, at each given length.

Where it gets dicey is for clubheads like the Ping Zing, Zing 2, and ISI. These were an additional degree upright at standard specs, because they drooped more in the dynamics of the swing, due to their design. When Ping went back to a smaller clubhead with the i3, they went back another degree flatter, to where the Eye2+ was.

Through all this it's worth noting it's said the average person wouldn't notice 1° off in lie angle. Certainly not a half degree. It might come into play in the short game, but even that can be varied by stance and grip...

[scomac2002]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1450722858' post='12747834']
Through all this it's worth noting it's said the average person wouldn't notice 1° off in lie angle. Certainly not a half degree. It might come into play in the short game, but even that can be varied by stance and grip...
[/quote]

Yabbut, the short game is where it matters most. I wasn't having any issues with targeting when using vintage, but when I went back to the moderns in the fall, I was habitually off to the right by probably 5 yards or more when pitching with my GW which is supposed to be 64° lie versus my PW which is 65.5° lie. You could make up for it with your set-up, but you had to be aware of it and even then it seemed like the difference on a chip could be a tap in versus a 15 footer. In those sorts of situations, strokes are in play!

[BIG STU]

[quote name='Eidolon' timestamp='1450720149' post='12747614']
I know ya'll want to do this on a vice in the garage, and you can..but...I'm with Stu on this. Best done 1 club at a time with a lie board. It takes longer but it is the better finished product. Every club head/design and shaft combo has a different toe droop and you just can't run the lie numbers off a chart and get the best fit. Plus most players swing long clubs slightly different than short irons. Again moving away from the charted numbers. In my shop if a guy has his numbers he wants, I charge $2.00 per club to bend to HIS specs. But to do a set of irons on the board 1 at a time it is $40.00. Time and knowledge have a price. And those numbers will most likely not fit a different set of irons for the same player. All depends do you desire close enough or perfect? Some folks do not put as much value on perfect lie angle as I do. As in all things it's a personal decision. Mike
[/quote]You are exactly 110% correct that is exactly how I do it and you are very correct in stating "Lie numbers on different branded irons may not transfer for the same player".

[BIG STU]

Fella did not mean to confuse you on the different lies with the 56 and 60 being the same length. But I can explain and this goes only for me. I only use the 60 in greenside bunker situations or if I have to absolutely hit a high flop. On those shots i use a little different stroke I do the little loop thing with the hands looping under so I need to be a little more upright. I rarely hit full shots with my standard swing with the 60. Hope I cleared that up for you my ways can be confusing sometimes

[John L.]

[quote name='NRJyzr' timestamp='1450722858' post='12747834']
[quote name='Fellaheen51' timestamp='1450709100' post='12746718']
That's my point NRJ ^. The classic irons are all over the map spec-wise (length and lie). Not to get overly fixated on the actual numbers. But shouldn't there be a optimum set of numbers that are transferable across all clubs. I guess that is where my confusion lies. Apparent lack of transferability.
[/quote]


For the most part, yes, though certain designs can throw a bit of figurative sand in the gears. With the usual array of classic blade sets, you're probably fine using the same lie specs for everything, at each given length.

Where it gets dicey is for clubheads like the Ping Zing, Zing 2, and ISI. These were an additional degree upright at standard specs, because they drooped more in the dynamics of the swing, due to their design. When Ping went back to a smaller clubhead with the i3, they went back another degree flatter, to where the Eye2+ was.

Through all this it's worth noting it's said the average person wouldn't notice 1° off in lie angle. Certainly not a half degree. It might come into play in the short game, but even that can be varied by stance and grip...
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[u]This is the best explanation I have seen in regards to droop[/u]..........thanks for posting!

I played stock MacGregor MT Colokrom irons for years with off the rack lofts & lies. ([i]went to 1 degree up later on[/i])

I bought a set of Ping Zing black dots one winter from a good friend who was a Pro. ([i]used but mint condition[/i]) I loved the clubs, but could tell immediately that the lie was wrong for me. I told him that they needed to be set more upright. I asked him to send them back to Ping for me while I was at sea for the next month, and have them bent upright 2 degrees. He told me that it was in my head, and that I needed to just keep hitting them. We argued back and forth over coffee about it. He kept telling me that they were about the same lie as my blades. I knew enough about shaft flex, and deflection back then as a club maker & repair hobbiest to understand what happens when a shaft is loaded up during the swing. I told him that the lie felt great at address, but they were[b] not[/b] that same lie at impact, because I could feel the toe oscillating through the turf, and the ball was inconsistent off the club face because of it. The oscillating was minimal in the short irons, but got progressively worse with the longer irons. He laughed, but finally agreed to ship them off for me. When I got back from sea, he had the clubs waiting for me in his office. I was playing with them 15 minutes later and they worked sweet. He still thought that it was in my head, but was happy that I liked the results.

The Pro got a lesson on droop.