Vijay Singh vs Ernie Els

[Forged4ever]

It's a really tough one. Vijay had the most dominant stretch for sure. He took down Tiger when Tiger was still the man. He won something like 7 PGA tournaments in a half season, took the #1 ranking and then lost it and won it back, all while giving zero F's about how he wasn't supposed to do that.

 

Vijay's run in 2004 was one of the most interesting plots of the past 15-20 years IMO. He just elevated his game and became the man when it wasn't supposed to happen

 

All of that said, i firmly believe if Tiger was never born, Ernie Els would be the premier player of our generation. Even ahead of Phil frankly. I really believe Ernie's confidence was killed by Tiger on a whole other level then Phil or Vijay, who just didn't care for various reasons. Ernie cared, i think it crushed him that no matter how good he was he'd never be better then Tiger, and it changed the arc of his career.

 

I agree with that. Tiger hurt Ernie. Tiger actually helped Phil

FWIW, When I asked Ernie this, he dismissively laughed, and say what you will, however I can tell a defensive arrogant response from one sincere from the heart and all I will say is that ERNiE did not believe this-

 

In Ernie's mind what hurt him was losing that US Open lead and Championship as he did-

 

Then he started "thinking" about his game and his putting and we all know how that's gone-

 

This Man has a quite cockiness, confidence and swagger and I believe him that it was not Tiger because he had proven to himself that HE could beat Tiger-

 

It was bigger than Tiger or any one Player-

 

Ernie had lost confidence in Himself and that fragile glass bubble that the Champions surround their psyche with, well, his was shattered-

 

Just as Tiger's was shattered in '09

 

Different situations, but the result's the same-

 

They lose that "edge" that a Champion has that seperates them from all others-

 

I've had another Player tell me the same thing, ie, it wasn't Tiger, and I didn't believe him and I just responded "ok," though he could tell by my expression, body language and tone that I didn't believe him and he went on to try to justify his response. Flat out, he was in awe of Tiger.

 

Ernie was not and he SureTF wasn't intimidated by him-

 

Just my .01 from talkin with him :)

 

Have a great season My Friend :)

 

All the Best,

RP

Ernie like Johnny Miller and Greg Norman was built for Augusta and never pulled it off.

He said the same thing and as this was 2010, he said not to count him out, and as he's one of my Two favorite current Players, I never will, but here we are fiver years later and........

 

Have a great week :)

 

My Best,

RP

[Forged4ever]

Vijay has 34 wins and 3 majors while The Big Easy has 19 wins and 4 majors. Different personalities aside, which guy do you think has had the more impressive career? Second, which guy was the better golfer at their absolute best? Both of these guys intrigue me because they were seen as two of the leading challengers to Tiger other than Phil but it never quite worked out that way though I believe Vijay was the only guy to wrest the number 1 ranking from Tiger during Tiger's peak. This is close for me but I give the edge to Vijay on both counts.

 

Thoughts?

 

It has to be Vijay. He is the only one to actually challenge Tiger and take his number one spot.

If I had the ability to think rationally, THIS would be the deciding factor for me.....

 

However, me being the irrational emotional train wreck looking for a bend in the track, it means little, LMAO

 

I'm kidding, this really is the defining parameter for me and I don't care how or why he got to #1, just like the number in the box, THAT'S all that counts :)

 

BUT, I'd still take Ernie :)

 

Nice point Bro :)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

Richard

[deasy55]

Els had the better career, and imo it's not even as close as some people on here are saying.

 

yet others are giving reasons. Care to follow up on your statement?

 

More wins and more major wins.

[Forged4ever]

Els had the better career, and imo it's not even as close as some people on here are saying.

 

yet others are giving reasons. Care to follow up on your statement?

 

More wins and more major wins.

Bro, your quality posts aside, I've always meant to tell you that with the exception of the avatars with pics of members' children, better halves and family in them and Brian's and My pics of ourselves, THIS is my favorite golf themed avatar!!!

 

This picture epitomizes the Game, The Man and why he is and always will be my GOAT!!!

 

The 18 Majors just gimme ammunition :)

 

The bottom pic was snapped at the airport afterwards and Barbara, as taken aback at that ugly a** coat then as we are now, sweetly chirped, "Sweetheart, WTF, you won. We have enough for a nice coat"

 

They both got a laugh out of that :)

 

What a friggin Bad A** :)

 

Very Very Well Played!!!

 

My Best,

RP

[Vindog]

I think it is as close as people are saying:

 

3 is pretty close to 4

47 is pretty close to 50

[LanDog]

Ernie for me, and pretty easily as well, all round he appeals to me more, the fluidity of his swing, his charity work, his interviews are good, he's courteous to journalists. He's a great example to learn from.

 

Aside from that, his major achievements are more impressive to me as well. He's also a world player whereas I would have viewed Vjay as PGA tour player more so

[Forged4ever]

Besides, No one "backs" into a Major Victory, LMAO

 

Like Brian said, many times it comes down to "Last Man Standing," and that Man may even be sitting in the club house as the others fall, however trust me here please, that Individiual Played his a** off for 72+ holes to be in that position~

 

And "luck?"

 

All that is is the intersection point of Preparation and Performance~

 

Ya ever notice that the mediocre and jerk-offs don't get lucky??

 

Whether it's 60+ minutes or 72+ holes, if you've got a mental weakness that day, the only place you're gonna be "standing" is at your locker, sniveling like a b**** at what coulda been :)

 

Nah, no one "backs" into a Major~

 

Well, anyplace but at WRX, LMAO

 

Fairways & Greens My Friends,

RP

[Chief Illiniwek]

While I agree that a champion is a champion, because at the end of the tournament he posted the best score, I strongly disagree that you can't back into wins, so to speak.

 

You can win in a fairly pressureless (comparatively) situation by shooting a crazy low score when everyone has already counted you out.

 

You can be behind by a few, and play great and overtake the competition.

 

You can let the leaders fall to the pressure and play just good enough to win.

 

You can be in the lead and just let the pressure to surpass you change the way others play and cruise to victory.

 

You can be in the lead and go out and dominate. Not give your competitors even the slightest hope that they have a chance.

 

There's other "ways" to win of course that I'm not naming. The thing is, this is a very subjective argument. And the perception of the fans is that some "ways" of winning championships are more valued than others. And to some people one method may be held in higher esteem than others. Some think Rory or Tiger blowing away a field is the most impressive. The talent was unrivaled, but nerves weren't a factor. On the other hand, someone may value Nicklaus' Masters in 86. Packed leaderboard full of great players who basically equaled his talent that event, yet he out-nerved them for the win.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. Interesting debate with no right answer. It's about as close as two guys from the same era can be and both still be among the game's 50 greatest.

 

I'd probably go Els narrowly because I value majors so much.

 

There's two ways to look at Els giving a couple away. Yes, he may not have the dogged determination and will to win that we want from our All Timers, but looked at from the other hand, look how close he was to being a 6 or 7 time major champion.

[cdnglf]

Artistic impression is for figure skating.

[Forged4ever]

While I agree that a champion is a champion, because at the end of the tournament he posted the best score, I strongly disagree that you can't back into wins, so to speak.

 

You can win in a fairly pressureless (comparatively) situation by shooting a crazy low score when everyone has already counted you out.

 

You can be behind by a few, and play great and overtake the competition.

I

You can let the leaders fall to the pressure and play just good enough to win.

 

You can be in the lead and just let the pressure to surpass you change the way others play and cruise to victory.

 

You can be in the lead and go out and dominate. Not give your competitors even the slightest hope that they have a chance.

 

There's other "ways" to win of course that I'm not naming. The thing is, this is a very subjective argument. And the perception of the fans is that some "ways" of winning championships are more valued than others. And to some people one method may be held in higher esteem than others. Some think Rory or Tiger blowing away a field is the most impressive. The talent was unrivaled, but nerves weren't a factor. On the other hand, someone may value Nicklaus' Masters in 86. Packed leaderboard full of great players who basically equaled his talent that event, yet he out-nerved them for the win.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. Interesting debate with no right answer. It's about as close as two guys from the same era can be and both still be among the game's 50 greatest.

 

I'd probably go Els narrowly because I value majors so much.

 

There's two ways to look at Els giving a couple away. Yes, he may not have the dogged determination and will to win that we want from our All Timers, but looked at from the other hand, look how close he was to being a 6 or 7 time major champion.

You say tomayto.....

 

I say tomahto......

 

You prefer to say a Champion backed into the Victory, I(and I'm going to assume Brian :) ) will always say that they were the last Man standing.

 

It's semantics really~

 

Well, that and the way that I am wired, lol

 

My Glasses have ALWAYS been half-full :)

 

Stay Well My Friend & have a great week :)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

[Shilgy]

While I agree that a champion is a champion, because at the end of the tournament he posted the best score, I strongly disagree that you can't back into wins, so to speak.

 

You can win in a fairly pressureless (comparatively) situation by shooting a crazy low score when everyone has already counted you out.

 

You can be behind by a few, and play great and overtake the competition.

I

You can let the leaders fall to the pressure and play just good enough to win.

 

You can be in the lead and just let the pressure to surpass you change the way others play and cruise to victory.

 

You can be in the lead and go out and dominate. Not give your competitors even the slightest hope that they have a chance.

 

There's other "ways" to win of course that I'm not naming. The thing is, this is a very subjective argument. And the perception of the fans is that some "ways" of winning championships are more valued than others. And to some people one method may be held in higher esteem than others. Some think Rory or Tiger blowing away a field is the most impressive. The talent was unrivaled, but nerves weren't a factor. On the other hand, someone may value Nicklaus' Masters in 86. Packed leaderboard full of great players who basically equaled his talent that event, yet he out-nerved them for the win.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. Interesting debate with no right answer. It's about as close as two guys from the same era can be and both still be among the game's 50 greatest.

 

I'd probably go Els narrowly because I value majors so much.

 

There's two ways to look at Els giving a couple away. Yes, he may not have the dogged determination and will to win that we want from our All Timers, but looked at from the other hand, look how close he was to being a 6 or 7 time major champion.

You say tomayto.....

 

I say tomahto......

 

You prefer to say a Champion backed into the Victory, I(and I'm going to assume Brian :) ) will always say that they were the last Man standing.

 

It's semantics really~

 

Well, that and the way that I am wired, lol

 

My Glasses have ALWAYS been half-full :)

 

Stay Well My Friend & have a great week :)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

My take? If anyone cares, is it is 72 holes of stroke play. Low number wins. 4 straight 66's are no different than 62 62 70 70. How you got there is just fluff for the media, and us on wrx, to go on about.

[jmvargas]

inspite of his slightly blemished past vijay's record is just slightly better overall than ernie's......

[ea19]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

Ernie's major championship contending period was much longer than Vijay.

 

I have a ton of respect for both. But there is a difference between 2 and 3, 3 and 4, 4 and 5, and 5 and 14.

 

One reason I like Vijay is it seemed like he worked for everything he got. Not that Ernie didn't and maybe we don't give him his due because he made the swing seem so easy - he seemed so natural.

[ea19]

That said - these are two of the top what ? Six or seven players of the last 25 years. Both are great. Interesting debate. Phenomenal careers.

[BrianL99]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

[Hawkeye77]

What others might trade in a silly hypothetical changes nothing. Vijay has 3 majors, period,

 

He has had an incredible career and so has Els. Really stretching now with the qualitative major nonsense.

[Shilgy]

What others might trade in a silly hypothetical changes nothing. Vijay has 3 majors, period,

 

He has had an incredible career and so has Els. Really stretching now with the qualitative major nonsense.

I would add if two majors of the PGA variety somehow equal one of an Open variety do we need to go back and kick some guys out of the hof? All the talk on hof worthiness is one major is no good, need two. No one asks which ones.

[Bingo1976]

Vijay brought a modern work ethic to the game before Tiger came on tour. But for Major records, class and all round nice guy-ness, it's Ernie.

 

 

(Apart from that monstrosity of a redesign he did at Wentworth)

[Vindog]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

[b.helts]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

[Forged4ever]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

Yep, and he's not the only one to say it.....

 

I was just as stunned, though it is what it is, lol

 

http://www.app.com/story/sports/2014/08/02/strongest-field-makes-pga-championship-toughest-major-test/13516895/

 

Have a nice week Bro :)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

[BrianL99]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

 

Anyone who knows anything about golf, knows the PGA is the least prestigious of the Majors and likely won't remain a major for much longer.

 

It's traditionally played in lousy weather, on 2nd class golf courses and a less than stellar field.

 

It's a relic from the days when the PGA held sway over the PGA Tour and the Tour can't wait to bump it off, in favor of the Tournament Players Championship.

[Vindog]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

 

That's what I said and even with the small number of club pros, the numbers bear it out. Using the aggregate world rankings of the fields players, we can determine the appropriate field strength of various tournaments. On the OWGR website you can rank the events from. in some years, WGCs have harder fields than Majors such as The Masters.

[Vindog]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

 

Anyone who knows anything about golf, knows the PGA is the least prestigious of the Majors and likely won't remain a major for much longer.

 

It's traditionally played in lousy weather, on 2nd class golf courses and a less than stellar field.

 

It's a relic from the days when the PGA held sway over the PGA Tour and the Tour can't wait to bump it off, in favor of the Tournament Players Championship.

 

Hardest Field in golf. Year in, Year out. This cannot be denied no matter the metric.

[b.helts]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

Yep, and he's not the only one to say it.....

 

I was just as stunned, though it is what it is, lol

 

http://www.app.com/story/sports/2014/08/02/strongest-field-makes-pga-championship-toughest-major-test/13516895/

 

Have a nice week Bro :)

 

Fairways & Greens My Friend,

RP

 

From the article you linked to:

 

Everyone from the top 108 in the world ranking was scheduled to play at Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville, Kentucky. Even with Dustin Johnson (No. 16) taking a leave of absence, no other tournament is loaded with so many great players.

 

So "everyone" ...... Except that DJ was on his nose candy time out. lol

 

The article also said 20 club pros but I thought it was 25. The CPC may have been recently changed, but pretty sure it was 25 not too many years ago.

[Vindog]

From the article you linked to:

 

Everyone from the top 108 in the world ranking was scheduled to play at Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville, Kentucky. Even with Dustin Johnson (No. 16) taking a leave of absence, no other tournament is loaded with so many great players.

 

So "everyone" ...... Except that DJ was on his nose candy time out. lol

 

The article also said 20 club pros but I thought it was 25. The CPC may have been recently changed, but pretty sure it was 25 not too many years ago.

 

Here are the top 10 hardest fields from last season. on the right the number to llok at is "world Rating" which is the total ranking of the players in the field. The PGA is 50 points ahead of it's nearest event. The next biggest dropoff is from The Open to The Masters which was only marginally higher than WGC Cadillac

 

 

 

[Shilgy]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

 

Anyone who knows anything about golf, knows the PGA is the least prestigious of the Majors and likely won't remain a major for much longer.

 

It's traditionally played in lousy weather, on 2nd class golf courses and a less than stellar field.

 

It's a relic from the days when the PGA held sway over the PGA Tour and the Tour can't wait to bump it off, in favor of the Tournament Players Championship.

And those that know anything about golf know the tour cannot just "decide" to replace it on the major list.

[Vindog]

http://www.owgr.com/events?pageNo=1&pageSize=300&tour=&year=2015

 

jump to a year and sort by World Rating and run the numbers yourself

 

in 2005 TPC got higher, but that's about it.

[b.helts]

From the article you linked to:

 

Everyone from the top 108 in the world ranking was scheduled to play at Valhalla Golf Club in Louisville, Kentucky. Even with Dustin Johnson (No. 16) taking a leave of absence, no other tournament is loaded with so many great players.

 

So "everyone" ...... Except that DJ was on his nose candy time out. lol

 

The article also said 20 club pros but I thought it was 25. The CPC may have been recently changed, but pretty sure it was 25 not too many years ago.

 

Here are the top 10 hardest fields from last season. on the right the number to llok at is "world Rating" which is the total ranking of the players in the field. The PGA is 50 points ahead of it's nearest event. The next biggest dropoff is from The Open to The Masters which was only marginally higher than WGC Cadillac

 

 

 

 

I don't deny that you make a compelling argument. One that has made me think twice about my position.

 

However, the masters field was 98 last year. PGA was 156. Does your "world rating" take into account the field size or is it just an aggregate?

[Hawkeye77]

Vijay has 3 major wins, 1 second and 1 third. Ernie has 4 major wins, 6 seconds and 5 thirds.

 

 

 

I suspect most American PGA Touring Pros would trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's U.S. Opens.

 

Most European Tour Pros would probably trade Vijay's 2 PGA Championships, for one of Ernie's British Opens.

 

This is a dumb argument anyways so why not. Here goes:

 

Most golfers in general would trade 1 or two Open wins for Vijay's Green Jacket. Plus it grated Arnold Palmer that he never won a PGA, so let's not totally discount the Major with historically the toughest field.

 

Wait. Did you just say the PGA has the historically toughest field?

 

With ~20% of the field coming from the club pro ranks?

 

Anyone who knows anything about golf, knows the PGA is the least prestigious of the Majors and likely won't remain a major for much longer.

 

It's traditionally played in lousy weather, on 2nd class golf courses and a less than stellar field.

 

It's a relic from the days when the PGA held sway over the PGA Tour and the Tour can't wait to bump it off, in favor of the Tournament Players Championship.

 

This post is from a relic that hasn't been paying attention to the strength of fields at the PGA, the fact that The Players lost it's chance to "knock off" the PGA a long time ago and yes, it will be a major for the foreseeable future.