Drewtaylor21's Golf Journey (Swing Changes, WITB, Results)

[SA790]

Honest question..

 

I've had a recent forced time off due to surgery, basically least amount of golf I've played in years + having physical limitations due to recovery.. I recently had my first round back and literally thought about nothing at all during my swing during the round, didn't really think about working the ball or the other things I usually think about during my typical rounds and actually did really well.

 

My question is this.. I know you and Matt (Q) are really technical and seek out guys like Dana/GG/<insert hot new instructor> but at what point is it too mechanical/technical vs. natural/athletic? When does it become too much grinding and is there a diminishing return?

 

I ask because some of my best golf (including tourney play) was when I wasn't seeking help much and just golfing my ball. I've seen GG and once I started getting more serious about golf started seeking more instruction, but I can't say my play was positively affected by adding much additional instruction.

 

I was also thinking about this because with my weaker/injured hand I was thinking of getting a lesson before returning so I don't develop any compensations or bad habits but ended up just playing with a clear head and no expectations and the game was much more enjoyable (for now), lol!

 

Just wanted to get your thoughts, enjoy following your journey!

I know your question wasn't aimed directly at me but resonated with me as someone said something similar in my thread a couple of days ago.

 

I'm a very technical & analytical person. Yes I do work a lot on mechanics and movements, probably more so without a ball at work and at home with little time to hit balls. As my swing has improved through the winter working with Zane Scotland I actually find it easier now to 'switch off' when playing golf. I find it a lot easier to differentiate between conscious swing movements and just playing golf, things become a lot more automatic on the course.

 

why? probably because my technique has improved a lot that I'm hitting the ball more consistently than I ever have done so I'm not hitting as many bad shots, or my bad shots are a lot better (still in play/on the green) so I don't feel the need to work on mechanics after a bad swing? I was certainly guilty of that in the past, ending up playing golf swing rather than golf. maybe also a portion of trust in my game, that bad shots will happen, all you can do at any one time is play the shot that's in front of you

 

Just my 2 cents :)

 

Completely agree with this. It's all personality based, you have to match your learning and playing with your own personality. I'm also analytical and work in a math heavy field. In order for me to improve there has to be structure and I have to understand the "whys." Once I feel comfortable at the range with a new move, then it's really easy to shut off the technical stuff on the course.

[robrey85]

 

 

Sorry for the miscommunication!

 

#1 difference has been driver. I really struggled getting off the tee in the past. I distinctly remember the 2014 Kansas Amateur at Mission Hills CC; my driver was so bad I hit it only 3 times all week (1 good, 2 in the sh*t) and had to rely on 3i everywhere. It really stressed the rest of my game. When I first started working with George online, he changed my setup with driver and it came a lot easier right away! I don't fear driver anymore.

 

Also, wedge distance control has gotten better and better working on his 30-70 and 80-120 drills.

 

This is me all the time. When Drew and I played Rhodes last weekend, I used the DECADE method and I hit driver four times the whole round and all four were just awful. Luckily, thanks to that strategy, there was ample room to mis and I came out +2 instead of what could have easily been +6. Sounds like I'm gonna have to give Drew the ole boot and join the GG pack! :cheesy: ( I keed! )

[Jacob Mac]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

[MK7Golf21]

I went to high school with Shaun, my cousin played on the high school team with him as well. He's a good guy, He bought my cousin a mercedes when he signed with golden state.

[robrey85]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

Hahah, I don't even like basketball but that's hilarious.

[drewtaylor21]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

:rofl: It's crazy but so true!

 

I think Steve Kerr has to be underrated for how he's managed the personalities on that team to blend as seamlessly as they do. Who knows what will happen in the next few years, but wow, 2017 sure looked easy. I can't stand Curry, but I'm honestly hoping GSt wins tomorrow just to see a clean sweep of the playoffs. It's pretty unreal.

[Jacob Mac]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

:rofl: It's crazy but so true!

 

I think Steve Kerr has to be underrated for how he's managed the personalities on that team to blend as seamlessly as they do. Who knows what will happen in the next few years, but wow, 2017 sure looked easy. I can't stand Curry, but I'm honestly hoping GSt wins tomorrow just to see a clean sweep of the playoffs. It's pretty unreal.

 

The thing that should bother nba teams is the prospect of KD and Curry staying with GS and taking below market deals.

[pinhigh27]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

:rofl: It's crazy but so true!

 

I think Steve Kerr has to be underrated for how he's managed the personalities on that team to blend as seamlessly as they do. Who knows what will happen in the next few years, but wow, 2017 sure looked easy. I can't stand Curry, but I'm honestly hoping GSt wins tomorrow just to see a clean sweep of the playoffs. It's pretty unreal.

 

you watch your mouth!!!

[MK7Golf21]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

:rofl: It's crazy but so true!

 

I think Steve Kerr has to be underrated for how he's managed the personalities on that team to blend as seamlessly as they do. Who knows what will happen in the next few years, but wow, 2017 sure looked easy. I can't stand Curry, but I'm honestly hoping GSt wins tomorrow just to see a clean sweep of the playoffs. It's pretty unreal.

 

The thing that should bother nba teams is the prospect of KD and Curry staying with GS and taking below market deals.

 

Curry's last contract deal was made in 2012 when he was having ankle issues and wasn't an elite all star. He broke out as one of the best in nba after 2012 so was and is getting under paid for how good he is. Will be interesting to see how much they offer curry after this year and how they do it. Hopefully they don't get rid of livingston but pretty sure other teams are going to be offering Shaun more than his last contract and the Warriors will have to find way's to offer Curry the most they can. Who know's who they will get rid of in the process.

 

Shaun led our basketball team to back to back state title's, still remember his drive to the rim, covered with defenders and like 5 seconds left in the game to get the first title. Was a very hard shot so he's always been one who knows how to win.

[KonaV821]

I remember watching some of your lessons with Dana and he mentioned ulnar deviation in transition. I signed up for his site and he mentioned right wrist bend allowing ulnar deviation. After adding that and the squat and rotate I've finally able to shallow the shaft and hit some push draws as well. Can't do them full speed yet but looks promising.

 

Great thread btw, always interesting to read good players thought process and tinkering with equipment.

 

It's interesting how all the pieces start fitting together huh? Things felt so contrived at first, but the more I get these little lightbulb moments along the way, the more things flow together. Hopefully you're having the same experience, and thanks for following!

 

Yessir it is! I've had a couple of lesson from Dana online, signing up for his academy has helped a ton! I actually started following Dana after reading some of your post ����

 

Glad to hear that! Would you mind sharing what he has you working on?

 

Sure thing bro.

 

Biggest issues Dana saw was a steep shaft in early transition and an extended wrist. My arms were way to deep (from pulling down) as well. My misses are push cuts or some really violent hooks.

 

He wants me to get my left arm higher at the top of the backswing and feel my hand path move out with a bowed left wrist and some ulnar deviation on the downswing. Also he wanted me to feel my weight stay back in early transition.

 

I had an idea of what he wanted me to do but it made more sense after sigining up for his website. I feel the section on "how to make a swing change" helped out quite a bit because I was trying to do these things full speed right away lol.

 

 

[Jab3384]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

:rofl: It's crazy but so true!

 

I think Steve Kerr has to be underrated for how he's managed the personalities on that team to blend as seamlessly as they do. Who knows what will happen in the next few years, but wow, 2017 sure looked easy. I can't stand Curry, but I'm honestly hoping GSt wins tomorrow just to see a clean sweep of the playoffs. It's pretty unreal.

 

The thing that should bother nba teams is the prospect of KD and Curry staying with GS and taking below market deals.

 

Curry's last contract deal was made in 2012 when he was having ankle issues and wasn't an elite all star. He broke out as one of the best in nba after 2012 so was and is getting under paid for how good he is. Will be interesting to see how much they offer curry after this year and how they do it. Hopefully they don't get rid of livingston but pretty sure other teams are going to be offering Shaun more than his last contract and the Warriors will have to find way's to offer Curry the most they can. Who know's who they will get rid of in the process.

 

Shaun led our basketball team to back to back state title's, still remember his drive to the rim, covered with defenders and like 5 seconds left in the game to get the first title. Was a very hard shot so he's always been one who knows how to win.

 

Curry is signing the super max the day it's offered to him... done deal. KD taking less than the max (will probably be a 1+1 deal) allows the warriors to go over the cap (using bird rights) to resign Andre and Livingston to market deals.

 

Go Warriors!

[drewtaylor21]

Can we just take a moment to talk about how ridiculous the Golden State Warriors are???

 

Yes, Cleveland stopped playing the last few minutes tonight (game 3 for future reference), but it's crazy to me how quickly GSt pounces on even the smallest opportunities. A couple mediocre possessions and bang, you're down 8.

 

I'm just going to say it, they're the best [non-original-dream-team] team I've ever seen, including the '96 Chicago Bulls. I grew up idolizing MJ and I think he'd have a lot more to say about the last few minutes than ol' LBJ, but as a team, these Warriors are on a level I've never seen before.

 

If you put that team together on Xbox, you would get bored and quit playing with them in a few games bc it would be way too easy. They're like a real life Bo Jackson Tecmo Bowl. Except it is the entire team and not just one player.

 

:rofl: It's crazy but so true!

 

I think Steve Kerr has to be underrated for how he's managed the personalities on that team to blend as seamlessly as they do. Who knows what will happen in the next few years, but wow, 2017 sure looked easy. I can't stand Curry, but I'm honestly hoping GSt wins tomorrow just to see a clean sweep of the playoffs. It's pretty unreal.

 

you watch your mouth!!!

 

Lol! Hey I would have much rather seen Cleveland win, but that's not happening, so at this point I figure I might as well enjoy watching something historic.

[drewtaylor21]

I remember watching some of your lessons with Dana and he mentioned ulnar deviation in transition. I signed up for his site and he mentioned right wrist bend allowing ulnar deviation. After adding that and the squat and rotate I've finally able to shallow the shaft and hit some push draws as well. Can't do them full speed yet but looks promising.

 

Great thread btw, always interesting to read good players thought process and tinkering with equipment.

 

It's interesting how all the pieces start fitting together huh? Things felt so contrived at first, but the more I get these little lightbulb moments along the way, the more things flow together. Hopefully you're having the same experience, and thanks for following!

 

Yessir it is! I've had a couple of lesson from Dana online, signing up for his academy has helped a ton! I actually started following Dana after reading some of your post ����

 

Glad to hear that! Would you mind sharing what he has you working on?

 

Sure thing bro.

 

Biggest issues Dana saw was a steep shaft in early transition and an extended wrist. My arms were way to deep (from pulling down) as well. My misses are push cuts or some really violent hooks.

 

He wants me to get my left arm higher at the top of the backswing and feel my hand path move out with a bowed left wrist and some ulnar deviation on the downswing. Also he wanted me to feel my weight stay back in early transition.

 

I had an idea of what he wanted me to do but it made more sense after sigining up for his website. I feel the section on "how to make a swing change" helped out quite a bit because I was trying to do these things full speed right away lol.

 

Good stuff - lots of his usual patterns it sound like!

 

Do you struggle at all with combining both the squat/pivot/hang back move with the wrist conditions? I find that's a tough one for me. Doing one at a time is easy, but getting them to work in concert has always been challenging. Curious to hear from someone else doing similar things! ?

[airjammer]

Drew, I have been using you as a model. I think you have been doing it as good as it can be done. I think the issue is that anyone who is converting to the clubhead "below" the hands type of swing is that you are essentially relearning most of the swing. My current frustration is that every model that I have seen has the hands and right elbow trailing the right hip..then in a actual lesson they say having the right elbow trailing the right hip is bad. So for me my question is where is the sweet spot because I can't say any of Dana's students have that Fitzpatrick type of right elbow but the "high hands clubhead below" drill puts you in that position.

[KonaV821]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

[Jacob Mac]

How much of the ulnar deviation DD was showing you in your lesson was meant as an exaggeration, and how much does DD actually want to see in your actual swing?

[MK7Golf21]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

handpath moving out isn't the end all be all, your can run into issues just moving handpath out like what you are running into. Justin Rose works on keeping the handpath from moving out at the top, lol

[KonaV821]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

handpath moving out isn't the end all be all, your can run into issues just moving handpath out like what you are running into. Justin Rose works on keeping the handpath from moving out at the top, lol

 

Agreed, but it helps a ton for me to get my shaft shallow in transition which in the long term allow for a more predictable ball flight at least that's what I'm hoping haha

[MK7Golf21]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

handpath moving out isn't the end all be all, your can run into issues just moving handpath out like what you are running into. Justin Rose works on keeping the handpath from moving out at the top, lol

 

Agreed, but it helps a ton for me to get my shaft shallow in transition which in the long term allow for a more predictable ball flight at least that's what I'm hoping haha

 

Impact is what matters, I'm sure it's shifting your path way more out to in near impact causing you to hit heels and shanks. Common thing I see with guys getting into the hand path out stuff and over do it

[drewtaylor21]

Drew, I have been using you as a model. I think you have been doing it as good as it can be done. I think the issue is that anyone who is converting to the clubhead "below" the hands type of swing is that you are essentially relearning most of the swing. My current frustration is that every model that I have seen has the hands and right elbow trailing the right hip..then in a actual lesson they say having the right elbow trailing the right hip is bad. So for me my question is where is the sweet spot because I can't say any of Dana's students have that Fitzpatrick type of right elbow but the "high hands clubhead below" drill puts you in that position.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by the Fitzpatrick elbow? What position of the swing are you talking about?

 

I know Dana doesn't want the right elbow trailing the hip, but it's pretty close. The pivot is certainly leading the arms in his model, not the other way around.

[drewtaylor21]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

Not a hijack at all, I want this to be a thread where we can discuss DD's instruction! (and some basketball, and whatever else lol)

 

Are you getting handpath moving out via opening in transition? That's definitely one aspect of his model that he keys in on a few times on the website that differs from what I got from him in my lessons. I think that has more to do with my tendencies, which are that my hand path goes out TOO much, and he likes the left arm in a bit more at p5 ("overlapped" as he calls it), but it was interesting to me to hear him talk about that in several of the videos.

 

One thing that I think DD doesn't focus on much in his explanations that I think Gankas does a really good job of is the importance of "doing nothing with the arms" in transition. In both their models this is a key piece, but I have only heard Dana mention it once, whereas George talks about it all the time. For me this is where studying both of their models has helped a lot, in that the DD moves fall into place when I don't actively do anything with my arms and they're just along for the ride in transition. Any pull down and I lose that overlapped look and shaft pitch steepens just a bit (and I lose it right). If I let the arms ride along with the pivot while the wrists do what they should with Dana's model, it's money.

 

Not sure if that helps your situation at all, but that's what I've found works really well, and the more I watch from Dana, the more in-line it seems with his patterns, even if it's an aspect he doesn't focus on a lot.

[drewtaylor21]

How much of the ulnar deviation DD was showing you in your lesson was meant as an exaggeration, and how much does DD actually want to see in your actual swing?

 

It's an intent that should get the club in the position he wants it in from p5-p8. It doesn't happen at full speed the way it looks in slow-mo, but the intent is the same.

[drewtaylor21]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

handpath moving out isn't the end all be all, your can run into issues just moving handpath out like what you are running into. Justin Rose works on keeping the handpath from moving out at the top, lol

 

Agreed, but it helps a ton for me to get my shaft shallow in transition which in the long term allow for a more predictable ball flight at least that's what I'm hoping haha

 

Impact is what matters, I'm sure it's shifting your path way more out to in near impact causing you to hit heels and shanks. Common thing I see with guys getting into the hand path out stuff and over do it

 

The way I understand Dana's instruction here is that the opening of the body shifts handpath out, while the wrists control the clubhead. The clubhead should stay down and behind, so that through impact the hands are moving around the body to the left (although he doesn't instruct "swing left") while the clubhead trails them and comes around the corner from the inside for a rightward path. You are correct that the handpath isn't going out all that much though.

 

This was a part of the epiphany I had a few days ago related to forces pulling upwards on the handle from p6 through impact. If the clubhead is outside the hands at p6, this is most certainly a left path and not what he wants to see. If the club is inside/below the hands at p6 (as a result of proper wrist conditions, handpath moving out in early transition, and an active pivot), path goes ever so slightly right for the push draw he likes.

 

 

[lhahn]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

Not a hijack at all, I want this to be a thread where we can discuss DD's instruction! (and some basketball, and whatever else lol)

 

Are you getting handpath moving out via opening in transition? That's definitely one aspect of his model that he keys in on a few times on the website that differs from what I got from him in my lessons. I think that has more to do with my tendencies, which are that my hand path goes out TOO much, and he likes the left arm in a bit more at p5 ("overlapped" as he calls it), but it was interesting to me to hear him talk about that in several of the videos.

 

One thing that I think DD doesn't focus on much in his explanations that I think Gankas does a really good job of is the importance of "doing nothing with the arms" in transition. In both their models this is a key piece, but I have only heard Dana mention it once, whereas George talks about it all the time. For me this is where studying both of their models has helped a lot, in that the DD moves fall into place when I don't actively do anything with my arms and they're just along for the ride in transition. Any pull down and I lose that overlapped look and shaft pitch steepens just a bit (and I lose it right). If I let the arms ride along with the pivot while the wrists do what they should with Dana's model, it's money.

 

Not sure if that helps your situation at all, but that's what I've found works really well, and the more I watch from Dana, the more in-line it seems with his patterns, even if it's an aspect he doesn't focus on a lot.

 

Sorry I may be missing something obvious but in his IG, when GG says to keep the arms quiet in transition, then are you just focused on using the lower body and torso? or just lower body?

[airjammer]

Drew, I have been using you as a model. I think you have been doing it as good as it can be done. I think the issue is that anyone who is converting to the clubhead "below" the hands type of swing is that you are essentially relearning most of the swing. My current frustration is that every model that I have seen has the hands and right elbow trailing the right hip..then in a actual lesson they say having the right elbow trailing the right hip is bad. So for me my question is where is the sweet spot because I can't say any of Dana's students have that Fitzpatrick type of right elbow but the "high hands clubhead below" drill puts you in that position.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by the Fitzpatrick elbow? What position of the swing are you talking about?

 

I know Dana doesn't want the right elbow trailing the hip, but it's pretty close. The pivot is certainly leading the arms in his model, not the other way around.

 

 

Sorry, I should have attached a picture. Pitch elbow

 

 

 

Then you have this still picture of a drill off of Dana's Instagram

 

 

 

So basically are these drills to get your right arm in external rotation only? Like I said..I'd just like to know the sweet spot because all the drills show pitch elbow but none of his students seem to maintain one. Just a topic I'd like for him to cover.

[MK7Golf21]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

handpath moving out isn't the end all be all, your can run into issues just moving handpath out like what you are running into. Justin Rose works on keeping the handpath from moving out at the top, lol

 

Agreed, but it helps a ton for me to get my shaft shallow in transition which in the long term allow for a more predictable ball flight at least that's what I'm hoping haha

 

Impact is what matters, I'm sure it's shifting your path way more out to in near impact causing you to hit heels and shanks. Common thing I see with guys getting into the hand path out stuff and over do it

 

The way I understand Dana's instruction here is that the opening of the body shifts handpath out, while the wrists control the clubhead. The clubhead should stay down and behind, so that through impact the hands are moving around the body to the left (although he doesn't instruct "swing left") while the clubhead trails them and comes around the corner from the inside for a rightward path. You are correct that the handpath isn't going out all that much though.

 

This was a part of the epiphany I had a few days ago related to forces pulling upwards on the handle from p6 through impact. If the clubhead is outside the hands at p6, this is most certainly a left path and not what he wants to see. If the club is inside/below the hands at p6 (as a result of proper wrist conditions, handpath moving out in early transition, and an active pivot), path goes ever so slightly right for the push draw he likes.

 

 

 

got ya, yea I've seen some of Dana's stuff regarding wrists and remember the stuff you were working on related to wrists, seems to help come from the inside. I know for Justin Rose, he tries to keep his hands from moving out at the top because it would get too far out and he would have to then stall his rotation after transition, bring his arms and hands straight down just to hit from a decent path. Most am's are just going to be hitting heel/shanks or cuts in an attempt to keep rotating

 

many way's to get it done. If your shanking/heeling shots, it's not going to lead to better ball striking down the road is all I'm saying, the move isn't helping.

[KonaV821]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

Not a hijack at all, I want this to be a thread where we can discuss DD's instruction! (and some basketball, and whatever else lol)

 

Are you getting handpath moving out via opening in transition? That's definitely one aspect of his model that he keys in on a few times on the website that differs from what I got from him in my lessons. I think that has more to do with my tendencies, which are that my hand path goes out TOO much, and he likes the left arm in a bit more at p5 ("overlapped" as he calls it), but it was interesting to me to hear him talk about that in several of the videos.

 

One thing that I think DD doesn't focus on much in his explanations that I think Gankas does a really good job of is the importance of "doing nothing with the arms" in transition. In both their models this is a key piece, but I have only heard Dana mention it once, whereas George talks about it all the time. For me this is where studying both of their models has helped a lot, in that the DD moves fall into place when I don't actively do anything with my arms and they're just along for the ride in transition. Any pull down and I lose that overlapped look and shaft pitch steepens just a bit (and I lose it right). If I let the arms ride along with the pivot while the wrists do what they should with Dana's model, it's money.

 

Not sure if that helps your situation at all, but that's what I've found works really well, and the more I watch from Dana, the more in-line it seems with his patterns, even if it's an aspect he doesn't focus on a lot.

 

Yup that's exactly what how I'm trying to get my handpath more out through rotating.

 

I've tried many of times to try and do nothing with the arms but I pull down haha.

 

I think it's a combo of an old shoulder injury and my hit instinct is why I can't get my right shoulder external. I've competed in bodybuilding in the past and I'm thinking the flexibility in that shoulder might not be as great.

 

I seen a live video on DDs Facebook yesterday in which he had his student getting his shoulder fully external in the backswing. Maybe something I'll tinker with if it makes it easier for me to shallow.

 

 

Is your ball flight typically a fade? Played a draw/hook all my life and I'd like to play a fade as it's more predictable IMO.

 

[drewtaylor21]

it's been rough to say the least. I do have a Watson golf training aid that helps with wrist conditions so I can just focus on the pivot and hand path butt even then it's rough.

 

Ball striking has been terrible and I'm afraid to even get on the course. Having my handpath move out feels so weird and combine that with my old move I'm hitting a lot of heel shots and shanks lol.

 

Sorry to hijack your thread bud

 

Not a hijack at all, I want this to be a thread where we can discuss DD's instruction! (and some basketball, and whatever else lol)

 

Are you getting handpath moving out via opening in transition? That's definitely one aspect of his model that he keys in on a few times on the website that differs from what I got from him in my lessons. I think that has more to do with my tendencies, which are that my hand path goes out TOO much, and he likes the left arm in a bit more at p5 ("overlapped" as he calls it), but it was interesting to me to hear him talk about that in several of the videos.

 

One thing that I think DD doesn't focus on much in his explanations that I think Gankas does a really good job of is the importance of "doing nothing with the arms" in transition. In both their models this is a key piece, but I have only heard Dana mention it once, whereas George talks about it all the time. For me this is where studying both of their models has helped a lot, in that the DD moves fall into place when I don't actively do anything with my arms and they're just along for the ride in transition. Any pull down and I lose that overlapped look and shaft pitch steepens just a bit (and I lose it right). If I let the arms ride along with the pivot while the wrists do what they should with Dana's model, it's money.

 

Not sure if that helps your situation at all, but that's what I've found works really well, and the more I watch from Dana, the more in-line it seems with his patterns, even if it's an aspect he doesn't focus on a lot.

 

Sorry I may be missing something obvious but in his IG, when GG says to keep the arms quiet in transition, then are you just focused on using the lower body and torso? or just lower body?

 

Yes. GG talks about wanting the lower body to open first, then the chest, then the arms get "slingshotted" through impact.

[drewtaylor21]

Drew, I have been using you as a model. I think you have been doing it as good as it can be done. I think the issue is that anyone who is converting to the clubhead "below" the hands type of swing is that you are essentially relearning most of the swing. My current frustration is that every model that I have seen has the hands and right elbow trailing the right hip..then in a actual lesson they say having the right elbow trailing the right hip is bad. So for me my question is where is the sweet spot because I can't say any of Dana's students have that Fitzpatrick type of right elbow but the "high hands clubhead below" drill puts you in that position.

 

Can you clarify what you mean by the Fitzpatrick elbow? What position of the swing are you talking about?

 

I know Dana doesn't want the right elbow trailing the hip, but it's pretty close. The pivot is certainly leading the arms in his model, not the other way around.

 

 

Sorry, I should have attached a picture. Pitch elbow

 

 

 

Then you have this still picture of a drill off of Dana's Instagram

 

 

 

So basically are these drills to get your right arm in external rotation only? Like I said..I'd just like to know the sweet spot because all the drills show pitch elbow but none of his students seem to maintain one. Just a topic I'd like for him to cover.

 

The drills are focused on getting the sweet spot working down and behind while the body squats and pivots in transition. I haven't heard him discuss right elbow position all that much tbh (there's a 60" clip on it on his site), it's a lot more pivot, wrists, and ground forces and my assumption is that he wants the arms reacting. I don't know enough about where he stands on pitch vs. punch elbow to give you a better answer, sorry!

[drewtaylor21]

Not a hijack at all, I want this to be a thread where we can discuss DD's instruction! (and some basketball, and whatever else lol)

 

Are you getting handpath moving out via opening in transition? That's definitely one aspect of his model that he keys in on a few times on the website that differs from what I got from him in my lessons. I think that has more to do with my tendencies, which are that my hand path goes out TOO much, and he likes the left arm in a bit more at p5 ("overlapped" as he calls it), but it was interesting to me to hear him talk about that in several of the videos.

 

One thing that I think DD doesn't focus on much in his explanations that I think Gankas does a really good job of is the importance of "doing nothing with the arms" in transition. In both their models this is a key piece, but I have only heard Dana mention it once, whereas George talks about it all the time. For me this is where studying both of their models has helped a lot, in that the DD moves fall into place when I don't actively do anything with my arms and they're just along for the ride in transition. Any pull down and I lose that overlapped look and shaft pitch steepens just a bit (and I lose it right). If I let the arms ride along with the pivot while the wrists do what they should with Dana's model, it's money.

 

Not sure if that helps your situation at all, but that's what I've found works really well, and the more I watch from Dana, the more in-line it seems with his patterns, even if it's an aspect he doesn't focus on a lot.

 

Yup that's exactly what how I'm trying to get my handpath more out through rotating.

 

I've tried many of times to try and do nothing with the arms but I pull down haha.

 

I think it's a combo of an old shoulder injury and my hit instinct is why I can't get my right shoulder external. I've competed in bodybuilding in the past and I'm thinking the flexibility in that shoulder might not be as great.

 

I seen a live video on DDs Facebook yesterday in which he had his student getting his shoulder fully external in the backswing. Maybe something I'll tinker with if it makes it easier for me to shallow.

 

 

Is your ball flight typically a fade? Played a draw/hook all my life and I'd like to play a fade as it's more predictable IMO.

 

Seems a lot of people struggle with the action of the right arm in transition/downswing...

 

And yeah, I play a fade. Dana doesn't like that (lol), and I know I'm not perfectly modeling what he wants to see in the swing, but my interpretation of it is working really well, so I'm not trying to completely change it just to hit a draw! I'd say I'm learning more about how to use his pattern to create a draw, but it hasn't worked it's way into my full swing quite yet. It's definitely brought my path closer to neutral though. Baby steps! :rofl: