What's Hogan's secret again?

[oscar@wrx]

Bubba knows a couple.

 

 

 

AC

Bubba? What did Bubba say about this?

 

Nice pic. You can clearly see the calluses. Those last 3 middle fingers of left hand, really hard to build up their strength to keep the club from destabilizing at the top. Beginners should focus on this.

 

The pic tells me also that Hogan is a left handed or left side dominated player. So I don't think his left arm is a rope

 

No comment on the left arm rope deal, but Hogan is clearly not left handed by his own admission in the interview with George Peper in the September 1987 edition of Golf Magazine. See the exerpt below ...

 

 

GOLF: You were a natural left-hander who took up the game right-handed, weren't you?

 

HOGAN: No, that's one of those things that's always been written, but it's an absolute myth. The truth is, the first golf club I owned was an old left-handed, wooden-shafted, rib-faced mashie that a fellow gave me, and that's the club I was weaned on. During the mornings we caddies would bang the ball up and down the practice field until the members arrived and it was time to go to work. So I did all that formative practice left-handed. But I'm a natural right-hander.

 

 

Hogan used both left and right sides effectively, but to me it's obvious that he was right side dominant. Once one understands how he managed the right arm, it becomes crystal clear.

I mean he uses his left side or hand or arm as a main thought or feel to swing the club. Not saying he's left nor right handed

[oscar@wrx]

I have found it super hard to hook it with arched wrist and under release .. almost impossible

 

 

If you do what he says in the Life article it will keep the face open. For me it turns a draw into a push slice. If I need to really bend one right I will use the secret. I don't have the skill Hogan had to use it foe a slight fade.

Hogan had a really inside slot with low hands (shaft parallel before impact). Normally that means a shallow AoA but a really arched path. Hook path. He straightened that PATH with a vertical shoulder rotation from there to impact. The cup delayed the supination. The cup straightened the CLUBFACE and delayed or got the CLUBHEAD behind. If one doesn't have a slot as inside and as low as Hogan, the vertical shoulder rotation plus the cup is a path to right and clubface too square/open and clubhead way behind.

 

So I think the cup is more for the purpose of getting into his very inside and low hands slot. A flat left wrist on top would throw the clubhead out too early. Impossible to reach an inside a low slot with that

 

IMO

 

First, Hogan gripped the club with the face slightly open and arched his hands downward as a pre-swing trigger (an old anti-hook move)

 

I think Hogan also used the cupped left wrist to (1) keep the club face outside his hands on the backswing, along with the straight right wrist going back (if he got the club head too far behind him - toward crossing the line - he'd have too great an inside angle of approach on the downswing), and (2) as a timing aid - the beginning of uncapping on the way to an arched left wrist at impact was a timed sequence.

 

He dropped the club head inside and kept it his arms connected to his body, very flat swing plane from the inside, as he aggressively drove his hips toward the target.

 

All combined allowed him to hit it hard from the inside with his right side, but with an open club face that was prevented from flipping by his arched left wrist. Through impact, the arching of the left wrist was actively increasing, sawing the face open. The toe only passed the heel of the club due to body/connected arm rotation around to the left post impact - no hand flip.

 

Hogan figured out what modern swing electronic sensing later demonstrated.

 

A face more degrees open at impact than the degrees of inside approach angle produced fades.

 

Texsport

Clubhead path becomes even wider or straighter. Yes, impossible to hook if combo with his extension

[Texsport]

Not saying the bent right wrist and wiping the floor are the secret. Just saying it could be really one of Hogan's feels as it made sense to me.

 

The cup gives him the opportunity to flatten the left wrist going down into the slot, which gets the clubhead behind and clubface still open or square (instead of too out and closed, respectively, if left wrist already flat on top).

 

If I'm going to guess what Hogan's secret is, I would say it's the grip, the kind of grip that increases the ability to turn the club to the right and to the left. Exactly the article you posted

 

Agree with all the above ... well said. My slightly different interpretation of the grip is that if one hand tries to turn the wheel in one direction while the other hand tries to turn the wheel in the other direction, the wheel is stable and does not turn. Trying to turn the wheel in BOTH directions at the same time also explains this ...

 

ww

 

Agree - and you get much the same effect with Sam Byrd's inner and outer forces - pulling with the left while pushing with the right arm, thru impact.

 

Texsport

[oscar@wrx]

Not saying the bent right wrist and wiping the floor are the secret. Just saying it could be really one of Hogan's feels as it made sense to me.

 

The cup gives him the opportunity to flatten the left wrist going down into the slot, which gets the clubhead behind and clubface still open or square (instead of too out and closed, respectively, if left wrist already flat on top).

 

If I'm going to guess what Hogan's secret is, I would say it's the grip, the kind of grip that increases the ability to turn the club to the right and to the left. Exactly the article you posted

 

Agree with all the above ... well said. My slightly different interpretation of the grip is that if one hand tries to turn the wheel in one direction while the other hand tries to turn the wheel in the other direction, the wheel is stable and does not turn. Trying to turn the wheel in BOTH directions at the same time also explains this ...

 

ww

 

Agree - and you get much the same effect with Sam Byrd's inner and outer forces - pulling with the left while pushing with the right arm, thru impact.

 

Texsport

Once you get into the Hogan slot, the 2-handed basketball pass is really a great feel. Problem is how to get into that kind of slot

[AlexCzervic]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

[Diz]

The right is might as far as Im concerned and the left feels like jello;)

 

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

[oscar@wrx]

The right is might as far as Im concerned and the left feels like jello;)

 

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

My concern about a ropey or jelly left arm is the lack of active focus on left shoulder and left hand, which I think is key to a better transition to get into that inside slot. Is it possible to delay or keep the left shoulder back if it feels like a rope or jello? The right arm structure is easy for me--just keep the 2 middle fingers and base of palm of right hand pressuring the base of left thumb, everything follows (elbow bent in, leading, etc.)

[oscar@wrx]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

Could that work on a hips-initiated downswing? How do you delay or keep left shoulder back with that? I think keeping or saving left shoulder later is key for a rotational swing, you agree? How would you teach this with a rope or lifeless left arm?

[AlexCzervic]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

Could that work on a hips-initiated downswing? How do you delay or keep left shoulder back with that? I think keeping or saving left shoulder later is key for a rotational swing, you agree? How would you teach this with a rope or lifeless left arm?

 

Get a rope, all your questions answered.

 

AC

 

[oscar@wrx]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

Could that work on a hips-initiated downswing? How do you delay or keep left shoulder back with that? I think keeping or saving left shoulder later is key for a rotational swing, you agree? How would you teach this with a rope or lifeless left arm?

 

Get a rope, all your questions answered.

 

AC

Couldn't delay my left shoulder in transition. It always opens up too much when I turn my hips, even if not aggressively. My solution is always keep the left arm from shoulder to hands to continue pushing (away from target like in backswing) while I turn my hips. Could that be considered a ropey left arm? My left elbow couldn't be considered like jello at all. I'm trying to keep it straight. The right arm and hands are just "coming along for the ride"

[moehogan]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

Could that work on a hips-initiated downswing? How do you delay or keep left shoulder back with that? I think keeping or saving left shoulder later is key for a rotational swing, you agree? How would you teach this with a rope or lifeless left arm?

 

Get a rope, all your questions answered.

 

AC

Couldn't delay my left shoulder in transition. It always opens up too much when I turn my hips, even if not aggressively. My solution is always keep the left arm from shoulder to hands to continue pushing (away from target like in backswing) while I turn my hips. Could that be considered a ropey left arm? My left elbow couldn't be considered like jello at all. I'm trying to keep it straight. The right arm and hands are just "coming along for the ride"

I'm guessing that your left arm DS action is "opening" or rotating the arms triangle clockwise while your hips are rotating CCW. That creates separation of the left arm from the chest allowing the left shoulder to swivel, creating more left arm travel and pulling the right humerus more on top of the right pec while closing off the shoulders.

 

I accomplish the same thing in the DS with the RIGHT arm by rotating the entire arm CW, again, opening the arms triangle, encouraging arm travel across the chest and keeping the shoulders closed. I pull the handle under, down and out with the two middle fingers of the right hand with a bent right wrist.

 

Pick your poison!

 

Now as it relates to Hogan, IMO, there was a lot of yin and yang in his swing. I see left arm dominant in BS, right arm dominant in DS. He set up and moved one way to give himself the range of motion to move the opposite way ... in one continuous motion. Pure genius!

 

[oscar@wrx]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

Could that work on a hips-initiated downswing? How do you delay or keep left shoulder back with that? I think keeping or saving left shoulder later is key for a rotational swing, you agree? How would you teach this with a rope or lifeless left arm?

 

Get a rope, all your questions answered.

 

AC

Couldn't delay my left shoulder in transition. It always opens up too much when I turn my hips, even if not aggressively. My solution is always keep the left arm from shoulder to hands to continue pushing (away from target like in backswing) while I turn my hips. Could that be considered a ropey left arm? My left elbow couldn't be considered like jello at all. I'm trying to keep it straight. The right arm and hands are just "coming along for the ride"

I'm guessing that your left arm DS action is "opening" or rotating the arms triangle clockwise while your hips are rotating CCW. That creates separation of the left arm from the chest allowing the left shoulder to swivel, creating more left arm travel and pulling the right humerus more on top of the right pec while closing off the shoulders.

 

I accomplish the same thing in the DS with the RIGHT arm by rotating the entire arm CW, again, opening the arms triangle, encouraging arm travel across the chest and keeping the shoulders closed. I pull the handle under, down and out with the two middle fingers of the right hand with a bent right wrist.

 

Pick your poison!

 

Now as it relates to Hogan, IMO, there was a lot of yin and yang in his swing. I see left arm dominant in BS, right arm dominant in DS. He set up and moved one way to give himself the range of motion to move the opposite way ... in one continuous motion. Pure genius!

I think Hogan was left arm dominant not only in backswing but also until transition. I've experimented for years with a rope left arm, right arm dominant backswing and transition, and I think it's an inconsistent and also power dissipating method for me. Right arm just going along for the ride and let the left arm and hips do their thing in transition is very consistent and power saving method in transition for me.

 

From there it's the 2HBB as reminded by AC

[oscar@wrx]

See orange portion. On a still top of the backswing, Hogan said "hold everything" while turning your hips. On an actual swing, with all the forces going on, you have to "hold everything" even more IMO.

 

[oscar@wrx]

If I had to show a left arm puller to use right side/arm I would teach left arm rope, mechanically flat left wrist, extensor action and either right arm pull or right hand throw. Lastly, only after the left arm stopped pulling, I would teach left hand and I wouldn't teach Hogan's way unless there was a strong preference/disposition. The left side is pathetic, what you're feeling after blast off isn't power, it's a lack of structure and support from the right side.

 

 

 

AC

Why did you show us that picture AC? Dark side power, light side pathetic? Isn't that just the sun casting a shadow on his body? Hogan also said in Five Lessons that the muscles to use are the inside muscles. So I take that means left side dominant in backswing.

 

I agree with right arm structure, but right arm dominance in backswing? Even after transition, I'd say both side dominance (2HBBP), though yes, left arm would be ropey at that point due to pivot or left shoulder rotating hard

[AlexCzervic]

Buy a boat, meet a nice girl, have some kids.

 

AC.

[oscar@wrx]

Buy a boat, meet a nice girl, have some kids.

 

AC.

Yeah, mind conditioning

[oscar@wrx]

Buy a boat, meet a nice girl, have some kids.

 

AC.

Yeah, mind conditioning

Hey AC, family bought a boat, was even named after me, boat was sold, too many headaches on the captain, workers and tax authority (true story), had a girl, then had 3 kids, now all in school, doing ok and raised well (also true story). But your rope left arm still doesn't work.

 

Any recommendations? More extensor action and left shoulder down? How about constructive suggestion on issue I'm experiencing in transition?

[AlexCzervic]

Buy a boat, meet a nice girl, have some kids.

 

AC.

Yeah, mind conditioning

Hey AC, family bought a boat, was even named after me, boat was sold, too many headaches on the captain, workers and tax authority (true story), had a girl, then had 3 kids, now all in school, doing ok and raised well (also true story). But your rope left arm still doesn't work.

 

Any recommendations? More extensor action and left shoulder down? How about constructive suggestion on issue I'm experiencing in transition?

 

Typical hurdles are uneducated hands and learning to accommodate with pivot. When did Hogan think he could be champion? What parts of 5L do you understand least?

 

AC

[oscar@wrx]

Buy a boat, meet a nice girl, have some kids.

 

AC.

Yeah, mind conditioning

Hey AC, family bought a boat, was even named after me, boat was sold, too many headaches on the captain, workers and tax authority (true story), had a girl, then had 3 kids, now all in school, doing ok and raised well (also true story). But your rope left arm still doesn't work.

 

Any recommendations? More extensor action and left shoulder down? How about constructive suggestion on issue I'm experiencing in transition?

 

Typical hurdles are uneducated hands and learning to accommodate with pivot. When did Hogan think he could be champion? What parts of 5L do you understand least?

 

AC

When he thought of the plane. Only then did his backswing became consistent, and only then did he thought he can become championship caliber.

 

The least I understand? I don't know, I think I understand them all fairly well (not saying I can do them all fairly well though). What do you think many understand the least?

[moehogan]

Most do not understand how to manage the right arm and hand. It is often forgotten that 5L was written to help the "novice or average golfer", not as a blueprint of Hogan's own swing. He gave a few clues about the right arm/hand (two handed basketball pass), some more cryptic (him looking at the two middle fingers of the right hand on the dust jacket, dark shading in some of the pics) but never really spilled all of the beans ... he worked too darn hard to find it!

[oscar@wrx]

Most do not understand how to manage the right arm and hand. It is often forgotten that 5L was written to help the "novice or average golfer", not as a blueprint of Hogan's own swing. He gave a few clues about the right arm/hand (two handed basketball pass), some more cryptic (him looking at the two middle fingers of the right hand on the dust jacket, dark shading in some of the pics) but never really spilled all of the beans ... he worked too darn hard to find it!

Re the right arm and hand, Hogan have a detailed description of them in Five Lessons. He said you don't think about it, but so the reader will have a picture of what should happen to right arm and hand on the downswing, he described it in detail. But his thoughts (intents) are hip turn, shoulders back, goes down into the slot, and then turn everything from shoulders to arms to hands, the basketball pass.

 

Me, I don't see anything that Hogan tried to hide. He knows nobody could copy him because his swing is a combination of all his millions of previous swings and tournament experiences from childhood to winning. Nobody could replicate that.

 

And Moehogan, Hogan even mentioned your hand action when he discussed the waggle. Waggle isn't "just" a waggle. It is the swing without the shoulder turn. So that's the proper hand action

[moehogan]

Most do not understand how to manage the right arm and hand. It is often forgotten that 5L was written to help the "novice or average golfer", not as a blueprint of Hogan's own swing. He gave a few clues about the right arm/hand (two handed basketball pass), some more cryptic (him looking at the two middle fingers of the right hand on the dust jacket, dark shading in some of the pics) but never really spilled all of the beans ... he worked too darn hard to find it!

Re the right arm and hand, Hogan have a detailed description of them in Five Lessons. He said you don't think about it, but so the reader will have a picture of what should happen to right arm and hand on the downswing, he described it in detail. But his thoughts (intents) are hip turn, shoulders back, goes down into the slot, and then turn everything from shoulders to arms to hands, the basketball pass.

 

Me, I don't see anything that Hogan tried to hide. He knows nobody could copy him because his swing is a combination of all his millions of previous swings and tournament experiences from childhood to winning. Nobody could replicate that.

 

And Moehogan, Hogan even mentioned your hand action when he discussed the waggle. Waggle isn't "just" a waggle. It is the swing without the shoulder turn. So that's the proper hand action

 

Well, Oscar, just to be sure, I reread pages 66-69 in 5L (for about the 1000th time ... lol) where the waggle is explained and there is absolutely NOTHING that describes, hints or alludes to the hand action that I have previously described.

 

I also did a search on "right arm" on my iBook version and, other than it's role from delivery through impact (infielder's throw and the 2 handed basketball pass), there's not much about the right arm. His release change was a very significant modification to his previous action but there no explanation of his right hand action in that process.

 

Moreover, there is no mention of the right arm during transition and the first half of the DS ... what I call the "reverse arm circle". What the right arm does during that phase is one of the MOST CRITICAL components of the golf swing, IMO ... it's often make or break! I think that's explained by the fact that he had ingrained that part of the swing as early as the 1930's, even before he solidified his pivot ... easy to lose awareness of something that you've had grooved that long and to attribute it's causation to something else that you have modified later. A proper pivot does NOT guarantee a good arm swing!

[oscar@wrx]

Most do not understand how to manage the right arm and hand. It is often forgotten that 5L was written to help the "novice or average golfer", not as a blueprint of Hogan's own swing. He gave a few clues about the right arm/hand (two handed basketball pass), some more cryptic (him looking at the two middle fingers of the right hand on the dust jacket, dark shading in some of the pics) but never really spilled all of the beans ... he worked too darn hard to find it!

Re the right arm and hand, Hogan have a detailed description of them in Five Lessons. He said you don't think about it, but so the reader will have a picture of what should happen to right arm and hand on the downswing, he described it in detail. But his thoughts (intents) are hip turn, shoulders back, goes down into the slot, and then turn everything from shoulders to arms to hands, the basketball pass.

 

Me, I don't see anything that Hogan tried to hide. He knows nobody could copy him because his swing is a combination of all his millions of previous swings and tournament experiences from childhood to winning. Nobody could replicate that.

 

And Moehogan, Hogan even mentioned your hand action when he discussed the waggle. Waggle isn't "just" a waggle. It is the swing without the shoulder turn. So that's the proper hand action

 

Well, Oscar, just to be sure, I reread pages 66-69 in 5L (for about the 1000th time ... lol) where the waggle is explained and there is absolutely NOTHING that describes, hints or alludes to the hand action that I have previously described.

 

I also did a search on "right arm" on my iBook version and, other than it's role from delivery through impact (infielder's throw and the 2 handed basketball pass), there's not much about the right arm. His release change was a very significant modification to his previous action but there no explanation of his right hand action in that process.

 

Moreover, there is no mention of the right arm during transition and the first half of the DS ... what I call the "reverse arm circle". What the right arm does during that phase is one of the MOST CRITICAL components of the golf swing, IMO ... it's often make or break! I think that's explained by the fact that he had ingrained that part of the swing as early as the 1930's, even before he solidified his pivot ... easy to lose awareness of something that you've had grooved that long and to attribute it's causation to something else that you have modified later. A proper pivot does NOT guarantee a good arm swing!

The hand action is in the waggle portion of the book. Though he said there the right hand just goes along with the left hand. But the essence is there, I think. And look at the drawings.

 

The right arm action he described on the downswing portion. Like throwing rock. He even said in detail that the right hand is half-sidearm and half-under. Again, the pictures give more detail. No mention about your CCW of left hand and CW of right hand though

[oscar@wrx]

Ben Hogan's Five Lessons: The Modern Fundamentals of Golf by Ben Hogan with Herbert Warren Wind, Drawings by Anthony Ravielli

 

[dlygrisse]

right hand works under the left not over it!

 

Exactly!

 

Is that the feel, or what happens?

 

This is nothing more than the difference in address position and shaft lean at impact. His hands are in a totally different place in relation to the ball.

[moehogan]

right hand works under the left not over it!

 

Exactly!

 

Is that the feel, or what happens?

h

 

This is nothing more than the difference in address position and shaft lean at impact. His hands are in a totally different place in relation to the ball.

Nope, sorry, that's not the case ... have proven this countless times over the years. Moving the butt end of the handle forward 3-4 inches in itself will not change the relationship of the hands to one another in a unified grip. However, in the impact pic, the left hand has clearly moved to a weaker position (rotated CCW from the player's perspective) and right hand to a stronger position (rotated CW from the player's perspective).

 

Prove it to yourself ... in front of a mirror, grip a club using the grip shown in the address pic and rotate your hips open to simulate impact. Unless you apply some additional force or torque, the hands will remain in the same position relative to each other.

 

[oscar@wrx]

right hand works under the left not over it!

 

Exactly!

 

Is that the feel, or what happens?

h

 

This is nothing more than the difference in address position and shaft lean at impact. His hands are in a totally different place in relation to the ball.

Nope, sorry, that's not the case ... have proven this countless times over the years. Moving the butt end of the handle forward 3-4 inches in itself will not change the relationship of the hands to one another in a unified grip. However, in the impact pic, the left hand has clearly moved to a weaker position (rotated CCW from the player's perspective) and right hand to a stronger position (rotated CW from the player's perspective).

 

Prove it to yourself ... in front of a mirror, grip a club using the grip shown in the address pic and rotate your hips open to simulate impact. Unless you apply some additional force or torque, the hands will remain in the same position relative to each other.

Your feel may end up with Hogan's actual actions, but that is definitely not Hogan's feel IMO. He clearly said in Five Lessons that his thought is a basketball pass. That isn't a right hand CW and left hand CCW rotation at all.

 

With his weak grip, his hip turn, his layoff, his late release of left wrist c0ck and very quick swing tempo, that would be a disaster for Hogan IMO

 

And I've not mentioned the dreaded "supination" discussion, heh

[moehogan]

OK, so let's talk basketball pass and supination.

 

With the basketball pass, the left hand has to eventually get out of the way so the ball can be propelled by the pushing action of the right hand ... the left can do this by rotating CCW or supinating. If the right hand rotates CCW along with it at the same rate, the ball is spun into the ground ... bounce pass. But if the right hand resists turning CCW at the same rate as the left and remains in a neutral position, the ball can be delivered in the air to the intended target.

 

Hogan's right forearm/hand is clearly supinated at P6 ... belly of the right forearm facing the sky with the right palm facing the caddy due to his bent right wrist. Left forearm/hand pronated at P6. Then, in a flash, both are neutral by P7 and, in most cases, still neutral by P8 with the clubhead not having passed the body center line.

 

So how does one keep both arms from rotating CCW axially at the same rate of speed as the pivot through impact? Well, if you are a gifted athlete, you learn to time that action, but can still succumb to the occasional adrenaline rush and close it down too fast. IMO, there has to be an opposing force that will guarantee complete control of the clubface, that being the right hand/forearm trying to maintain some of its CW winding in opposition to the left and the pivot.

 

You still have the three right hands to apply as hard as you want ... you just know that you've taken clubface rotation out of the picture. And by the way, 5L was never intended to be an exact blueprint of Hogan's swing, rather it was more of a manual to help hackers learn the fundamentals to become decent players.

[oscar@wrx]

OK, so let's talk basketball pass and supination.

 

With the basketball pass, the left hand has to eventually get out of the way so the ball can be propelled by the pushing action of the right hand ... the left can do this by rotating CCW or supinating. If the right hand rotates CCW along with it at the same rate, the ball is spun into the ground ... bounce pass. But if the right hand resists turning CCW at the same rate as the left and remains in a neutral position, the ball can be delivered in the air to the intended target.

 

Hogan's right forearm/hand is clearly supinated at P6 ... belly of the right forearm facing the sky with the right palm facing the caddy due to his bent right wrist. Left forearm/hand pronated at P6. Then, in a flash, both are neutral by P7 and, in most cases, still neutral by P8 with the clubhead not having passed the body center line.

 

So how does one keep both arms from rotating CCW axially at the same rate of speed as the pivot through impact? Well, if you are a gifted athlete, you learn to time that action, but can still succumb to the occasional adrenaline rush and close it down too fast. IMO, there has to be an opposing force that will guarantee complete control of the clubface, that being the right hand/forearm trying to maintain some of its CW winding in opposition to the left and the pivot.

 

You still have the three right hands to apply as hard as you want ... you just know that you've taken clubface rotation out of the picture. And by the way, 5L was never intended to be an exact blueprint of Hogan's swing, rather it was more of a manual to help hackers learn the fundamentals to become decent players.

I think Hogan don't need to supinate or rotate his right hand or wrist CW to stabilize the hands or club. I think HIS layoff is sufficient to provide enough stabilizing opposing force to prevent the supination of the left wrist or hand from being overdone. If at all, I think Hogan's intent is he's TRYING to pronate his right wrist while trying to keep it bent back all the way to impact. My reason for this is because this is the only way to keep the left wrist cocked as it is at his impact position (shaft at impact mimicking shaft at address looking at it down the line). Supinating or rotating the right wrist or hand CW will uncock the left wrist too early and hard, considering his kind of layoff and inside and low slot.

 

Look at my avatar. At that point where the hands are, if the right wrist is supinated, the clubhead would have hit the ground a foot or so before the ball. We can try this at home, hold and then c0ck the club. Then try to supinate the right wrist, and then try to pronate the right wrist. See what happens. Supinating the right wrist will uncock the left wrist, pronating the right wrist will keep the left wrist cocked if not more

[oscar@wrx]

By the way, I believe Five Lessons is Hogan's real feelings or feels or intents. Those are what he is thinking while swinging it