How do you get rid of the flick/flip instinct? POST 120-UPDATE

[TB07]

Isn't flipping just a result of too early release? Too early release means too early uncocking, and once it uncocks, the left wrist would roll, you can't avoid it. Well, you can, and that's by actively preventing your left wrist to roll. Because of the centrifugal force of the clubhead, your left wrist hs no choice but to flip.

 

So I think the simple solution is don't release early

 

Sure, but why is anyone releasing too early? There's reasons for it and it's not as simple as don't release early. The release is early because it has to be.

[martynbirch]

The route to greater consistency for me is to avoid flicking at impact.

Thinking of buying DST as recommended by some but mixed reviews putting me off shelling out for yet another 'miracle cure'

 

DST may shed some light on the process for you, so might Greg Norman's Secret in the same regard, but before acquiring those, or playing around with what may, or may not be, a swing fault look first to your perceptions on task as a place to start. Sunk's MORAD P6 thread contains a good example. Martin Chuck says the hands "support impact". This suggests, based on Martin's perception, no active role with the hands. Without a hand perception desiring to "cause impact", instead of supporting impact, the body becomes more a leader than follower. The Chuck video:

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Seen this before, like it and I like Martin Chuck, just seems such a top guy! I think this drill is a little more natural than the punisher drill and just trying it in my net shows good results. The feel is night and day different to flipping, much more an obvious push or support through impact. It's so weird to hit the ball by keeping the arms, hands and wrists as they are but just using the pivot motion, a totally different sound and ball flight.

[bph7]

The route to greater consistency for me is to avoid flicking at impact.

Thinking of buying DST as recommended by some but mixed reviews putting me off shelling out for yet another 'miracle cure'

 

DST may shed some light on the process for you, so might Greg Norman's Secret in the same regard, but before acquiring those, or playing around with what may, or may not be, a swing fault look first to your perceptions on task as a place to start. Sunk's MORAD P6 thread contains a good example. Martin Chuck says the hands "support impact". This suggests, based on Martin's perception, no active role with the hands. Without a hand perception desiring to "cause impact", instead of supporting impact, the body becomes more a leader than follower. The Chuck video:

[media=]

[/media]

 

Seen this before, like it and I like Martin Chuck, just seems such a top guy! I think this drill is a little more natural than the punisher drill and just trying it in my net shows good results. The feel is night and day different to flipping, much more an obvious push or support through impact. It's so weird to hit the ball by keeping the arms, hands and wrists as they are but just using the pivot motion, a totally different sound and ball flight.

 

No good player is "keeping the arms, hands, and wrists as they are" and just pivoting. It might be an ok feel for certain issues but it's not what's happening at all. As a few have correctly stated ITT, people flip because if they didn't they hit the ball terribly. You need to fix the thing that's making you flip instead of just forcing a "no flip" swing.

[Larry111]

Martin Chuck is a nice guy but the golf swing is a dynamic motion. Maybe the release is on time but it's just in the wrong location in relationship to the body orientation?

[martynbirch]

The route to greater consistency for me is to avoid flicking at impact.

Thinking of buying DST as recommended by some but mixed reviews putting me off shelling out for yet another 'miracle cure'

 

DST may shed some light on the process for you, so might Greg Norman's Secret in the same regard, but before acquiring those, or playing around with what may, or may not be, a swing fault look first to your perceptions on task as a place to start. Sunk's MORAD P6 thread contains a good example. Martin Chuck says the hands "support impact". This suggests, based on Martin's perception, no active role with the hands. Without a hand perception desiring to "cause impact", instead of supporting impact, the body becomes more a leader than follower. The Chuck video:

[media=]

[/media]

 

Seen this before, like it and I like Martin Chuck, just seems such a top guy! I think this drill is a little more natural than the punisher drill and just trying it in my net shows good results. The feel is night and day different to flipping, much more an obvious push or support through impact. It's so weird to hit the ball by keeping the arms, hands and wrists as they are but just using the pivot motion, a totally different sound and ball flight.

 

No good player is "keeping the arms, hands, and wrists as they are" and just pivoting. It might be an ok feel for certain issues but it's not what's happening at all. As a few have correctly stated ITT, people flip because if they didn't they hit the ball terribly. You need to fix the thing that's making you flip instead of just forcing a "no flip" swing.

 

But as a feeling to hit the ball while right wrist is still in dorsiflexion the drill has value no?

[MonteScheinblum]

The route to greater consistency for me is to avoid flicking at impact.

Thinking of buying DST as recommended by some but mixed reviews putting me off shelling out for yet another 'miracle cure'

 

DST may shed some light on the process for you, so might Greg Norman's Secret in the same regard, but before acquiring those, or playing around with what may, or may not be, a swing fault look first to your perceptions on task as a place to start. Sunk's MORAD P6 thread contains a good example. Martin Chuck says the hands "support impact". This suggests, based on Martin's perception, no active role with the hands. Without a hand perception desiring to "cause impact", instead of supporting impact, the body becomes more a leader than follower. The Chuck video:

[media=]

[/media]

 

Seen this before, like it and I like Martin Chuck, just seems such a top guy! I think this drill is a little more natural than the punisher drill and just trying it in my net shows good results. The feel is night and day different to flipping, much more an obvious push or support through impact. It's so weird to hit the ball by keeping the arms, hands and wrists as they are but just using the pivot motion, a totally different sound and ball flight.

 

No good player is "keeping the arms, hands, and wrists as they are" and just pivoting. It might be an ok feel for certain issues but it's not what's happening at all. As a few have correctly stated ITT, people flip because if they didn't they hit the ball terribly. You need to fix the thing that's making you flip instead of just forcing a "no flip" swing.

 

But as a feeling to hit the ball while right wrist is still in dorsiflexion the drill has value no?

 

Not until you eliminate the flaw (s) causing the issue in the first place.

[AMPlayer]

But as a feeling to hit the ball while right wrist is still in dorsiflexion the drill has value no?

 

As long as it's understood it's a pass through motion under direction of a proper sequence which retains the flexion. There could be any number of issues going on causing irregular hand action to take over- casting, no side bend, etc.

[ferrispgm]

But as a feeling to hit the ball while right wrist is still in dorsiflexion the drill has value no?

 

As long as it's understood it's a pass through motion under direction of a proper sequence which retains the flexion. There could be any number of issues going on causing irregular hand action to take over- casting, no side bend, etc.

 

In order to hit the ball while trying to remain in dorsiflexion you would have to slow down everything so much that it would be counter productive because trying to hold that wrist position is a total manipulation and manipulations inherently slow down your swing. Any improvement you see in your normal swing would be extremely short-lived, again because this is a manipulation.

 

If your brakes on your car are squealing you don't just remove the squeaky one to stop the noise...you fix the problem, ie., new brakes. Holding dorsiflexion is the equivalent to removing a brake...may work for a week, but sooner or later you will crash.

[ksnooksk]

Check your trail hand grip. I've been flipping for 20 years and it never dawned on me that I was barely holding on the club with my right hand, right handed golfer.

[EKELLY]

The route to greater consistency for me is to avoid flicking at impact. I'm not flipping the club face shut but am stalling and flicking with my right hand.

 

If no ball is there I can do punisher drill type impact no problem with a good pivot, but when a ball is there my right wrist can't go past without flapping at it and my pivot stalls.

 

Does flip cause stall or vice versa? Thinking of buying DST as recommended by some but mixed reviews putting me off shelling out for yet another 'miracle cure'

I'm just another part-time golfer, but I've always had max shaft lean. My buddy is the ultimate flipper through impact. He bought the DST and I've played around with it a little. It can make flipping a thing of the past, BUT, be careful. They exaggerate the tension line, as Hogan called it.......Sounds like you have a few issues prior to impact that need to be looked at first. Golf is an easy game, complicated by mortals!!.....

[oscar@wrx]

Martin Chuck is a nice guy but the golf swing is a dynamic motion. Maybe the release is on time but it's just in the wrong location in relationship to the body orientation?

What do you think is the correct location? For me, it always has to be the dreaded slot. No way one would flip from there. Though getting there and having the hands and club that inside and low would introduce a plethora ofissues for many.

 

And can you clarify on your address plane comment?

 

Martin Chuck is a nice guy but the golf swing is a dynamic motion. Maybe the release is on time but it's just in the wrong location in relationship to the body orientation?

What do you think is the correct location? For me, it always has to be the dreaded slot. No way one would flip from there. Though getting there and having the hands and club that inside and low would introduce a plethora ofissues for many.

 

And can you clarify on your address plane comment?

[MonteScheinblum]

The slot is a meaningless and incorrect 2D concept and I have seen many people flip after "dropping it in the slot."

[martynbirch]

More great comments fellas, really appreciate it, helping me learn more. I know that to varying extents I lose posture going back, overswing, cast, have zero secondary and early extend which I know all need fixing some would say first!

 

BUT to 'feel' Impact with much more passive wrists and no cup in my left wrist is like one of those videos you see online where babies are born with a hearing impairment then with an implant hear their mum for the first time!!

 

If I can get a better understanding of what impact should feel like of course I need to figure out how to fix the rubbish that currently precedes it.

[dg_1983]

Sorry for the silly question...............what does the punisher drill promote/fix?

 

Is this something that could/should be practised with no other faults causing a flip?

 

Just a little confused, I tried the punisher drill in the warm up at the weekend and got some fantastic feeling strikes.

 

Should I continue? Is it a drill that would *benefit* most folks even if it does not fix all the issues?

 

Is it one of those things that might help a little bit - regardless of other things going on?

 

I'm a fan of that, doesn't have to be perfect ,just a little bit better helps!

[Dave D]

Sorry for the silly question...............what does the punisher drill promote/fix?

 

Is this something that could/should be practised with no other faults causing a flip?

 

Just a little confused, I tried the punisher drill in the warm up at the weekend and got some fantastic feeling strikes.

 

Should I continue? Is it a drill that would *benefit* most folks even if it does not fix all the issues?

 

Is it one of those things that might help a little bit - regardless of other things going on?

 

I'm a fan of that, doesn't have to be perfect ,just a little bit better helps!

 

like almost everything in golf, it MIGHT help you.

 

I am currently using the punisher drill to help get rid of my flip, but I also need to get the clubface more closed at P6, if the face is open there then it doesn't matter how many reps of the drill I do I am still going to flip to get the face to the ball square.

[dg_1983]

Suppose the proof is in the pudding. The results would speak for themselves, I wouldn't have thought any negative would come of using this is drill in a warm up? It really helped with the first 5 - 10 balls in the warm up net!

 

Solid Solid Solid

[Larry111]

Oscar, I don't have time to get into it right now so I'll just say that golf instruction is fixated on making the golf club fit the address plane. The plane revolves with your pivot. Look at Chuck in the thumbnail of the video. Does he look contorted to you? That's a result of trying to fit the swing to the address plane.

[glcoach]

How do you fix it?

 

Get a better pivot.

 

Do not EVER focus on keeping a "flat left wrist"

 

Bottom line: you have to "flick" your wrists to hit it good, you have to release it.

 

"Connected", " hands passive", "drag the clubhead" has ruined golfers long enough.

[AMPlayer]

Thinking of buying DST as recommended by some but mixed reviews putting me off shelling out for yet another 'miracle cure'

 

Looks like fun while being a definite learning tool- it forces action to consider and pay attention to. Here is a review thread about it with Instagram captures, along with PGA, LPGA, Champions Tour, and other usage stats.

http://Not allowed because of spams...ew-5-questions/

[oscar@wrx]

The slot is a meaningless and incorrect 2D concept and I have seen many people flip after "dropping it in the slot."

Can you clarify your comment re the slot? You think it's not correct to make it actively an objective or position? Isn't it the best way to take advantage of centrifugal force (clubhead as far from the ball as possible while retaining wrist c0ck and saving shoulder turn), and its shallow approach (more bang on the ball)?

 

Yes, now I've come to think of it, you're right, the slot may help but not insurance. Maybe the insurance is to not uncock the left wrist early? Maybe keep going with the pivot?

[oscar@wrx]

Oscar, I don't have time to get into it right now so I'll just say that golf instruction is fixated on making the golf club fit the address plane. The plane revolves with your pivot. Look at Chuck in the thumbnail of the video. Does he look contorted to you? That's a result of trying to fit the swing to the address plane.

?

[dap]

People who flip their trail wrist are basically subconsciously trying to help the ball get in the air by scooping. Instead of scooping the trail wrist think slap the ball with your palm directly into the ground. You will notice how the angle in your wrist will be preserved.

[Golfrnut]

People who flip their trail wrist are basically subconsciously trying to help the ball get in the air by scooping. Instead of scooping the trail wrist think slap the ball with your palm directly into the ground. You will notice how the angle in your wrist will be preserved.

 

I have flipped for forever, and have never once had the thought of helping to get the ball in the air...so no.

[dap]

People who flip their trail wrist are basically subconsciously trying to help the ball get in the air by scooping. Instead of scooping the trail wrist think slap the ball with your palm directly into the ground. You will notice how the angle in your wrist will be preserved.

 

I have flipped for forever, and have never once had the thought of helping to get the ball in the air...so no.

You might be doing it subconsciously. After a while you don't feel like you do it but it's ingrained. Guys who come way OTT never feel like they do it.

[Golfrnut]

People who flip their trail wrist are basically subconsciously trying to help the ball get in the air by scooping. Instead of scooping the trail wrist think slap the ball with your palm directly into the ground. You will notice how the angle in your wrist will be preserved.

 

I have flipped for forever, and have never once had the thought of helping to get the ball in the air...so no.

You might be doing it subconsciously. After a while you don't feel like you do it but it's ingrained. Guys who come way OTT never feel like they do it.

 

Or you are completely wrong in your diagnosis? Seeing as how I have arm overrun and a disconnect going back and my arms trail the pivot on the way down causing the loss of angles, I'm going with the latter.

[dap]

People who flip their trail wrist are basically subconsciously trying to help the ball get in the air by scooping. Instead of scooping the trail wrist think slap the ball with your palm directly into the ground. You will notice how the angle in your wrist will be preserved.

 

I have flipped for forever, and have never once had the thought of helping to get the ball in the air...so no.

You might be doing it subconsciously. After a while you don't feel like you do it but it's ingrained. Guys who come way OTT never feel like they do it.

 

Or you are completely wrong in your diagnosis? Seeing as how I have arm overrun and a disconnect going back and my arms trail the pivot on the way down causing the loss of angles, I'm going with the latter.

I wasn't diagnosing your swing. I was just commenting in general why players flip the trail wrist. You appear to know exactly why you flip so it should be an easy fix for you.

[Golfrnut]

People who flip their trail wrist are basically subconsciously trying to help the ball get in the air by scooping. Instead of scooping the trail wrist think slap the ball with your palm directly into the ground. You will notice how the angle in your wrist will be preserved.

 

I have flipped for forever, and have never once had the thought of helping to get the ball in the air...so no.

You might be doing it subconsciously. After a while you don't feel like you do it but it's ingrained. Guys who come way OTT never feel like they do it.

 

Or you are completely wrong in your diagnosis? Seeing as how I have arm overrun and a disconnect going back and my arms trail the pivot on the way down causing the loss of angles, I'm going with the latter.

I wasn't diagnosing your swing. I was just commenting in general why players flip the trail wrist. You appear to know exactly why you flip so it should be an easy fix for you.

 

I posted myself as an example. Listen to the people that actually instruct on here. The general player doesn't flip due to the things you are suggesting, they do it because of the other things that are incorrect with their swing. Flipping is an end result of another root cause.

[dap]

Have you fixed your flip?

[dap]

By the way, Jim Waldron who also instructs says that you need to learn to ignore the ball to get rid of the flip which sounds to me like he believes it's a mental issue. Do you agree with that or do you selectively pick instructors to side with?

[dap]

Here is another guy who instructs that says scooping is a result of trying to help the ball in the air. Should I listen to him since he instructs?

 

http://adamkolloff.com/stop-scooping-your-irons/