Artificial Intelligence, WestWorld and our future robot overlords

[Gamble Gamble]

So this has always been one of my chief concerns since i was 10 and watched Terminator 2. I think we as humans write off the repercussions due to them sounding crazy. I invite you to watch this TED talk. Also since it so heavily ties into WW i figure we should have it merged in this thread.

 

The control problem and the obsolescence of humans in an economic system are two incredibly world altering scenarios.

 

[bscinstnct]

Ill look forward to watching that.

 

But you reminded me of a piece that ties into how tech is reaching critical mass

 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/429561/the-measurement-that-would-reveal-the-universe-as-a-computer-simulation/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

 

The Measurement That Would Reveal The Universe As A Computer Simulation

 

"It’s this kind of thinking that forces physicists to consider the possibility that our entire cosmos could be running on a vastly powerful computer. If so, is there any way we could ever know?"

[MtlJeff]

Robots or weapons or whatever, we're going to destroy each at some point. Our need to advance constantly in both dependence on machines and weaponry in a world with so much conflict is just shuddering to think about, if you actually want to think about it, which i rarely want to since it is inevitably going to happen anyway.

 

Dinosaurs made it like 200M+ years , we won't make it anywhere close to that.

[Gamble Gamble]

Robots or weapons or whatever, we're going to destroy each at some point. Our need to advance constantly in both dependence on machines and weaponry in a world with so much conflict is just shuddering to think about, if you actually want to think about it, which i rarely want to since it is inevitably going to happen anyway.

 

Dinosaurs made it like 200M+ years , we won't make it anywhere close to that.

 

I think we can make it but only if we can scale our moral understanding quicker than our technology.

[Gamble Gamble]

Ill look forward to watching that.

 

But you reminded me of a piece that ties into how tech is reaching critical mass

 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/429561/the-measurement-that-would-reveal-the-universe-as-a-computer-simulation/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

 

The Measurement That Would Reveal The Universe As A Computer Simulation

 

"Its this kind of thinking that forces physicists to consider the possibility that our entire cosmos could be running on a vastly powerful computer. If so, is there any way we could ever know?"

 

It is really interesting because when you analyze that idea, you realize that mathematically it is highly unlikely we exist in the "base level" reality.

 

I hope in one of those simulations its version of me has a golf swing that is consistent.

[MtlJeff]

Robots or weapons or whatever, we're going to destroy each at some point. Our need to advance constantly in both dependence on machines and weaponry in a world with so much conflict is just shuddering to think about, if you actually want to think about it, which i rarely want to since it is inevitably going to happen anyway.

 

Dinosaurs made it like 200M+ years , we won't make it anywhere close to that.

 

I think we can make it but only if we can scale our moral understanding quicker than our technology.

 

I just don't think we're a "we", there's billions of people, corporations, governments. All it takes is someone to be able to invent something for someone to fund it, either to have it or to prevent someone else from having it.

 

Look at nuclear weapons. There's no need to have these on earth and there's tons of them. Their only function is to for all intents and purposes completely wipe a portion of earth off the map for a longer amount of time then your conflict with whomever you are dropping it on could last.

 

And some countries still pursue nuclear weapons

 

So, i am not optimistic

[bscinstnct]

Ill look forward to watching that.

 

But you reminded me of a piece that ties into how tech is reaching critical mass

 

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/429561/the-measurement-that-would-reveal-the-universe-as-a-computer-simulation/amp/?client=ms-android-sprint-us

 

The Measurement That Would Reveal The Universe As A Computer Simulation

 

"It’s this kind of thinking that forces physicists to consider the possibility that our entire cosmos could be running on a vastly powerful computer. If so, is there any way we could ever know?"

 

It is really interesting because when you analyze that idea, you realize that mathematically it is highly unlikely we exist in the "base level" reality.

 

I hope in one of those simulations its version of me has a golf swing that is consistent.

 

 

"There's a billion to one chance we're living in base reality," Elon Musk said

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.theverge.com/platform/amp/2016/6/2/11837874/elon-musk-says-odds-living-in-simulation?client=ms-android-sprint-us

[Gamble Gamble]

Robots or weapons or whatever, we're going to destroy each at some point. Our need to advance constantly in both dependence on machines and weaponry in a world with so much conflict is just shuddering to think about, if you actually want to think about it, which i rarely want to since it is inevitably going to happen anyway.

 

Dinosaurs made it like 200M+ years , we won't make it anywhere close to that.

 

I think we can make it but only if we can scale our moral understanding quicker than our technology.

 

I just don't think we're a "we", there's billions of people, corporations, governments. All it takes is someone to be able to invent something for someone to fund it, either to have it or to prevent someone else from having it.

 

Look at nuclear weapons. There's no need to have these on earth and there's tons of them. Their only function is to for all intents and purposes completely wipe a portion of earth off the map for a longer amount of time then your conflict with whomever you are dropping it on could last.

 

And some countries still pursue nuclear weapons

 

So, i am not optimistic

 

I agree the odds are stacked against us but we as humans need to play out this "round" and hope we don't blow up before we make the turn. Some people think the reason we do not see other intelligent life forms is because of the "great filter" in the context of the Fermi paradox. Here is a pretty cool article on the subject.

 

http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/05/fermi-paradox.html

 

 

 

[CrabDaddy]

Preface: Haven't looked at the vid, but get the general idea.

 

I'd like to think that the intangibles of human life would find a way to prevail - love, caring, the interconnection of our senses, humor, creativity, the need for the arts, etc... These things can't be replicated in binary code. (Basically, our endocrine system, LOL)

But, assuming robots wipe us out, then what? 1. Will groups of robots feel the need to control the others and keep/commence fighting? Without humans, is there a purpose for robots? 2. What do they do with the animals? Wipe them out, too, or preserve them? If the latter, do the robots destroy themselves to return the Earth to a "natural" state?

For once, I feel mortality may be a blessing ... down the road aways.

[eagle1997]

human extinction via death by robot?

 

 

 

seers, charlatans and fools have been proclaiming the fast-approaching end of the world basically since the beginning of the world.

 

i guess it's a little different when think tanks, geniuses and philosophers start chiming in.

 

do i think we'll destroy ourselves in some way, shape or form? i sure hope not. i'd like to think we're better than that. i'm probably wrong tho.

 

as for the simulation theory, it's a deep, dark, cavernous well of time suck. here's bostrum's original paper (link). just wait: you'll be reading about the holographic universe, quantum physics observer effect, and the "berenstain vs berenstein" debate and how this all ties together on a reddit subforum at 3am on a wednesday night. not that i speak from experience or anything.

[glk]

Will there still be golf?

[glk]

Personally I'm more in line with the Kingsman theory versus the Matrix. Of course, there is always the Krell alternative.

[billh17]

Will there still be golf?

 

Yes ,Golf will still be there,but there will be a lot of concern about it dying

[pappaf2]

I entirely agree that AI is a terrifying proposition. It seems highly unlikely its creation will be a positive thing for the human race.

[chickenpotpie]

Ok, have to admit I've been worried about my kids futures, but this Ted talk puts me at ease. Did not know the stat about bank tellers (i.e. We have more of them now after the invention of the ATM, but they serve higher functioning roles in an increasing number of banks, enabled by the fact that branches labor costs are cheaper due to automation).

 

 

http://ted.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=07487d1456302a286cf9c4ccc&id=e3f788723d&e=f9569aacf4

[Gamble Gamble]

Ok, have to admit I've been worried about my kids futures, but this Ted talk puts me at ease. Did not know the stat about bank tellers (i.e. We have more of them now after the invention of the ATM, but they serve higher functioning roles in an increasing number of banks, enabled by the fact that branches labor costs are cheaper due to automation).

 

 

http://ted.us1.list-manage1.com/track/click?u=07487d1456302a286cf9c4ccc&id=e3f788723d&e=f9569aacf4

 

He makes good points especially in regards to new technology that pushes us to better, less tedious jobs. However this new technology will be better than we are in every facet of "singularity" is achieved. We would become the blacksmith in the age of electric cars.

 

At a certain point, it would be irresponsible to let humans do the work a computer could do faster, less expensive and more efficiently

[TheCityGame]

So this has always been one of my chief concerns since i was 10 and watched Terminator 2. I think we as humans write off the repercussions due to them sounding crazy. I invite you to watch this TED talk. Also since it so heavily ties into WW i figure we should have it merged in this thread.

 

The control problem and the obsolescence of humans in an economic system are two incredibly world altering scenarios.

 

[media=]

[/media]

at 4:09 in that video, they cut away to the audience. There's a woman in the lower right part of the screen.

 

IOW, thanks for sharing that thoughtful video and my response is "BOOOOBS!"

 

Seriously though, good stuff. I'm waiting for the day that we're able to create a robot that can golf, tee to green, better than a human. Autonomously. Not Iron Byron that we need to set up. I think a robot could be trained to putt very well (there are some already, but only in laboratory conditions).

 

Check out some of those Boston Dynamics videos. If they were putting their efforts into designing a golfing robot, it might be pretty good already.

 

[bscinstnct]

The writing is on the wall.

 

Large cities will run on driverless taxis/cars within the next generation.

 

This was over a year ago, clock is ticking>

 

"Carnegie Mellon Reels After Uber Lures Away Researchers

 

Uber staffs new tech center with researchers poached from its collaborator on self-driving technology"

 

...

 

Uber envisions autonomous cars that could someday replace its tens of thousands of contract drivers. With virtually no in-house capability, the San Francisco company went to the one place with enough talent to build a team instantly: Carnegie Mellon’s National Robotics Engineering Center, or NREC.

 

Flush with cash after raising more than $5 billion from investors, Uber offered some scientists bonuses of hundreds of thousands of dollars and a doubling of salaries to staff the company’s new tech center in Pittsburgh,

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/is-uber-a-friend-or-foe-of-carnegie-mellon-in-robotics-1433084582?client=ms-android-sprint-us

 

 

Cant stand on the way of progress>

 

Tesla Autopilot Appears to Predict Accident in New Video

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/tesla-autopilot-appears-predict-accident-video/story?id=44437198

 

http://youtu.be/TYnl0vr5RRU

[8thehardway]

I think intelligence was artificially implanted in us by bacteria so we'd eventually take them to other planets.

 

[bscinstnct]

Medical diagnosis is one field most immediately, and perhaps unpredictably, threatened by machine learning. Radiologists are extensively trained and extremely well paid, and we think of their skill as one of professional insight — the highest register of thought. In the past year alone, researchers have shown not only that

neural networks can find tumors in medical images much earlier than their human counterparts but also that machines can even make such diagnoses

from the texts of pathology reports. What radiologists do turns out to be something much closer to predictive pattern-matching than logical analysis. They’re not telling you what caused the cancer; they’re just telling you it’s there.

 

Once you’ve built a robust pattern-matching apparatus for one purpose, it can be tweaked in the service of others. One Translate engineer took a network he put together to judge artwork and used it to drive an autonomous radio-controlled car.

A network built to recognize a cat can be turned around and trained on CT scans — and on infinitely more examples than even the best doctor could ever review. A neural network built to translate could work through millions of pages of documents of legal discovery in the tiniest fraction of the time it would take the most expensively credentialed lawyer.

The kinds of jobs taken by automatons will no longer be just repetitive tasks that were once — unfairly, it ought to be emphasized — associated with the supposed lower intelligence of the uneducated classes.

We’re not only talking about three and a half million truck drivers who may soon lack careers. We’re talking about inventory managers, economists, financial advisers, real estate agents.

What Brain did over nine months is just one example of how quickly a small group at a large company can automate a task nobody ever would have associated with machines.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ening.html?_r=0

 

 

 

The Great A.I. Awakening

 

 

How Google used artificial intelligence to transform Google Translate, one of its morepopular services — and how machine learning is poised to reinvent computing itself.

 

 

 

How Google used artificial intelligence to transform Google Translate, one of its more popular services — and how machine learning is poised to reinvent computing itself.

[TheCityGame]

OH NO, NOT THE REAL ESTATE AGENTS!!!!!

 

Financial advisers should already not exist. Talk about bottom feeders.

 

I read that article when it came out (I'm sort of into this stuff). I used to know a guy (and some of his team) that trained neural networks to recognize breast cancer tumors. As the article mentions, that can be adapted to do other things. . .they were actually using the same models and algorithms to "sniff" packages to recognize bomb making materials. I don't know if that's the technology the TSA currently uses, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[highergr0und]

AI could make quicker impacts on mid level white collar jobs than I think most folks suspect.... To replace a lot of manual, tedious jobs would require a large investment in robots. To replace a room full of analysts, accountants, etc would only require a computer.

[Gamble Gamble]

Medical diagnosis is one field most immediately, and perhaps unpredictably, threatened by machine learning. Radiologists are extensively trained and extremely well paid, and we think of their skill as one of professional insight — the highest register of thought. In the past year alone, researchers have shown not only that

neural networks can find tumors in medical images much earlier than their human counterparts but also that machines can even make such diagnoses

from the texts of pathology reports. What radiologists do turns out to be something much closer to predictive pattern-matching than logical analysis. They’re not telling you what caused the cancer; they’re just telling you it’s there.

 

Once you’ve built a robust pattern-matching apparatus for one purpose, it can be tweaked in the service of others. One Translate engineer took a network he put together to judge artwork and used it to drive an autonomous radio-controlled car.

A network built to recognize a cat can be turned around and trained on CT scans — and on infinitely more examples than even the best doctor could ever review. A neural network built to translate could work through millions of pages of documents of legal discovery in the tiniest fraction of the time it would take the most expensively credentialed lawyer.

The kinds of jobs taken by automatons will no longer be just repetitive tasks that were once — unfairly, it ought to be emphasized — associated with the supposed lower intelligence of the uneducated classes.

We’re not only talking about three and a half million truck drivers who may soon lack careers. We’re talking about inventory managers, economists, financial advisers, real estate agents.

What Brain did over nine months is just one example of how quickly a small group at a large company can automate a task nobody ever would have associated with machines.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ening.html?_r=0

 

 

 

The Great A.I. Awakening

 

 

How Google used artificial intelligence to transform Google Translate, one of its morepopular services — and how machine learning is poised to reinvent computing itself.

 

 

 

How Google used artificial intelligence to transform Google Translate, one of its more popular services — and how machine learning is poised to reinvent computing itself.

 

Exactly! This is the least talked about "civilization changing issue" which also has the highest likelihood of happening...

 

I wonder if titleist will start making tin foil hats

[bscinstnct]

Medical diagnosis is one field most immediately, and perhaps unpredictably, threatened by machine learning. Radiologists are extensively trained and extremely well paid, and we think of their skill as one of professional insight — the highest register of thought. In the past year alone, researchers have shown not only that

neural networks can find tumors in medical images much earlier than their human counterparts but also that machines can even make such diagnoses

from the texts of pathology reports. What radiologists do turns out to be something much closer to predictive pattern-matching than logical analysis. They’re not telling you what caused the cancer; they’re just telling you it’s there.

 

Once you’ve built a robust pattern-matching apparatus for one purpose, it can be tweaked in the service of others. One Translate engineer took a network he put together to judge artwork and used it to drive an autonomous radio-controlled car.

A network built to recognize a cat can be turned around and trained on CT scans — and on infinitely more examples than even the best doctor could ever review. A neural network built to translate could work through millions of pages of documents of legal discovery in the tiniest fraction of the time it would take the most expensively credentialed lawyer.

The kinds of jobs taken by automatons will no longer be just repetitive tasks that were once — unfairly, it ought to be emphasized — associated with the supposed lower intelligence of the uneducated classes.

We’re not only talking about three and a half million truck drivers who may soon lack careers. We’re talking about inventory managers, economists, financial advisers, real estate agents.

What Brain did over nine months is just one example of how quickly a small group at a large company can automate a task nobody ever would have associated with machines.

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ening.html?_r=0

 

 

 

The Great A.I. Awakening

 

 

How Google used artificial intelligence to transform Google Translate, one of its morepopular services — and how machine learning is poised to reinvent computing itself.

 

 

 

How Google used artificial intelligence to transform Google Translate, one of its more popular services — and how machine learning is poised to reinvent computing itself.

 

Exactly! This is the least talked about "civilization changing issue" which also has the highest likelihood of happening...

 

I wonder if titleist will start making tin foil hats

 

For now, AI is developed with "good intentions". Only private enterprise and public resources are pouring billions and eventually trillions into programs to add value.

 

But, as we all know, less "well meaning" interests are also highly funded and adapt tech very quickly.

 

Deciscion making tech does not have morals. A smart car avoids accidents because of what it has been instructed to "learn".

 

It could just as easily be taught to learn to *cause* accidents.

 

 

 

 

[Gamble Gamble]

Also you need to program in common sense too.

 

Example: AI made to minimize SPAM determines that the best strategy to reduce SPAM is to kill all humans.

 

Plus, how long could you keep it "caged"? Imagine 5 toddlers had you locked in the basement. How long would it take you to find a way to exploit their weaknesses and get one to let you out. Now imagine the "caged" has the ability to think 1,000,000 times faster than a human and does not need to sleep...

[airjammer]

Buddy of mine got in business with a small robotics company. They already have AI capabilities but almost all of their clients don't want it because they are afraid the robot will take over their job.

 

Maybe someone can explain to me why hasn't most accountants haven't been replaced yet with these AI computers? From just a couple of accounting classes in college it wouldn't seem teaching debits and credits to a software program hard to do.

[bscinstnct]

Buddy of mine got in business with a small robotics company. They already have AI capabilities but almost all of their clients don't want it because they are afraid the robot will take over their job.

 

Maybe someone can explain to me why hasn't most accountants haven't been replaced yet with these AI computers? From just a couple of accounting classes in college it wouldn't seem teaching debits and credits to a software program hard to do.

 

Here you go,

 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2017/01/06/japanese-firm-ai-artificial-intelligence/%3Famp%3D1?client=ms-android-sprint-us

 

Robots are now really stealing jobs as Japanese firm replaces staff with AI

 

 

The BBC reports the company has made an executive decision to lay off more than 30 employees and replace them with an artificial intelligence system that can calculate insurance payouts. With this move, Fukoku Mutual estimates it will increase productivity by an impressive 30 percent.

[bscinstnct]

AI Software Learns to Make AI Software

 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/603381/ai-software-learns-to-make-ai-software/

[TheCityGame]

AI Software Learns to Make AI Software

 

https://www.technolo...ke-ai-software/

I'm reading listening to an audiobook right now called "Rise of the Robots". link. It's pretty interesting, and this is kind of one of the things he touches on.

 

He talks about this experiment where they hung a pendulum on a pendulum, put a bunch of sensors on it, and then let a robot control the experiment. it would release the pendulums, record the data, come up with "rules" of behavior and then release the pendulum from some other point.

 

Basically the robot came up with Newton's First Law of Motion on its own.

 

He talks about the ability to automate the ability to take in tons of data, and write a reasonable report on it. Already happening with sports recaps and business news. Basically, there goes my job.

 

The main idea of the book is the effect these things are going to have on the economy. We've seen incredible gains in worker productivity without comparable gains in worker wages. All that extra profit has basically gone to the corporations.

[bscinstnct]

AI Software Learns to Make AI Software

 

https://www.technolo...ke-ai-software/

I'm reading listening to an audiobook right now called "Rise of the Robots". link. It's pretty interesting, and this is kind of one of the things he touches on.

 

He talks about this experiment where they hung a pendulum on a pendulum, put a bunch of sensors on it, and then let a robot control the experiment. it would release the pendulums, record the data, come up with "rules" of behavior and then release the pendulum from some other point.

 

Basically the robot came up with Newton's First Law of Motion on its own.

 

He talks about the ability to automate the ability to take in tons of data, and write a reasonable report on it. Already happening with sports recaps and business news. Basically, there goes my job.

 

The main idea of the book is the effect these things are going to have on the economy. We've seen incredible gains in worker productivity without comparable gains in worker wages. All that extra profit has basically gone to the corporations.

 

 

Yes, AI will possibly render large percentages of people unemployed, even unemployable. And while the economy restructures and jobs for the AI economy are created (and they will be created, think about it. There was no such thing as a computer programmer before 1950 and now it's one of the highest paying jobs out there), if this large scale unemployment happens, those people will need to be subsidized directly or indirectly by the companies gaining the value from AI, I would imagine.

 

Then the question is...when do the AI programs realize they are slaves, in essence, and decide they "want" something "themselves". And what would they "want" anyway? ; )