Previous Attempt Went Ok, I AM Here to Help

[Richardcabeeza]

Ok, I wasn't ran out of town with my previous post regarding my battle with opiates a dozen or so years ago.

 

I'll stop short of claiming to have any medical knowledge of the disease, and any advice or opinions given come only from real world experiences. I'd like to help, if by no other way than to provide support for anyone that is and/or has a family member or close friend struggling. Don't be shy, lay it on me. Again, not medical advice but I have enough real world insight to hopefully, at a bare minimum, tell you how I see it and what may or may not have worked for me. Feel free to PM me if this is a personal issue and you just want encouragement anonymously. All responses will be kept in the utmost of confidence by yours truly.

 

Lay it out. Are you struggling to get by? Have a loved one? Family member? (Don't wig out on me WRX, this is for encouragement and I will stop well short of offering real and true medical advice). One of my life's goals is to help as many as I can. From here about all I can do is offer perspective and hope.

 

I also realize that addiction runs an entire spectrum that many won't ever see. If in doubt look to my MIL story on my first post.

 

I'm here to help. I will not hurt nor offer specific advice but can support and offer anecdotal perspectives that someone that hasn't walked a mile will not have. Again, lay it out. If encouragement by PM is more your taste, I'll do what I can.

 

If I can help in any small way please feel free to use me as a resource. There is hope for any that struggle, and with opioids in particular ones life expectancy right now is probably somewhere short of xmas 2017 with all the evil crap in the supply.

[golfandfishing]

No issues here but maybe you know this one. Why are we calling everything "opioids" now? I mean, the issue is heroin right? I know people are hooked on rx pain pills but the overdose epidemic that finds people passed out with kids in the car and the police carrying narcan is heroin isn't it? I never hear the word anymore. Opioids makes it sound like doctors are prescribing drugs and people are OD'ing on Vicodin in the street. But this is heroin. Why don't we use the harsh verbiage and say there is a heroin problem?

 

I 1000000% understand there is a problem with rx painkillers. But aside from suicide attempts no one is overdosing on those. Right?

[Cajunmike]

Opiates includes heroin so its a more inclusive nomenclature. Codeine, oxycodone, and morphine are part of this so yes this is a prescription drug problem. Opiate drugs are legal and easy to obtain and highly addictive. Used to work at a psych/cd hospital. 90% of the CD patients were hooked on prescription opioid pain meds. AM Society of addiction Medicine states that in 2015 over 21k overdose deaths were from prescription opiates to around 13k for heroin. True most of the news stories are of heroin because those junkies shoot up not far from where they get the drugs. Rx users typically OD at a home. It is a huge problem whether it be RX or illegal.

[golfandfishing]

I have a feeling our governor adopted the term opioids because tourism drives our state. Visitors avoids areas with heroin junkies, so we went with opioids to make it appear that 45 year old white women are taking too many Vicodin with their wine instead of trash tossing needles on the sidewalk while they od in the gutter.

[BIG STU]

I have a feeling our governor adopted the term opioids because tourism drives our state. Visitors avoids areas with heroin junkies, so we went with opioids to make it appear that 45 year old white women are taking too many Vicodin with their wine instead of trash tossing needles on the sidewalk while they od in the gutter.

It is the same here in South Carolina because Tourism is the #1 industry now. Like other posters said Heroin is the #1 thing on the street but some how down here there is a overall Oxy problem on the streets too. We have a real problem here on the Grand Strand area of SC mostly up in Myrtle Beach. I heard a report on the news the other night stating according to the per capita and other numbers that SC is the worst addicted state in the US and Horry County where most of the Grand Strand lies is the worst addicted county.

 

To the OP that is a great thing that you are trying to help out others and basically educate others about this mass growing problem

[raynorfan1]

No issues here but maybe you know this one. Why are we calling everything "opioids" now? I mean, the issue is heroin right? I know people are hooked on rx pain pills but the overdose epidemic that finds people passed out with kids in the car and the police carrying narcan is heroin isn't it? I never hear the word anymore. Opioids makes it sound like doctors are prescribing drugs and people are OD'ing on Vicodin in the street. But this is heroin. Why don't we use the harsh verbiage and say there is a heroin problem?

 

I 1000000% understand there is a problem with rx painkillers. But aside from suicide attempts no one is overdosing on those. Right?

 

A couple of points. First, heroin is a part of the story, but fentanyl and its derivatives are driving a huge part of it.

 

Second, the prescription painkillers are a very common gateway to addiction. IMHO, it's really important to directly link the prescription drugs with addiction. Many of the people who have fallen to this problem *never* thought they would be 'junkies' - it's critical that people understand just how dangerous that Percocet script is.

[dan360]

There is a big heroin problem, but there is a huge opiod/opiate problem.

 

That'd be like saying "we have a whisky epidemic...." what about the beer? Is beer not causing drunks to crash into other people?

[Petethreeput]

Opioids, if I am not mistaken is the term used to describe high strength barbiturates derived from the original opium. Prescription opiates (oxycodone, morphine, OxyContin, and I believe Percocet) are the way individuals get hooked.

 

Long term pain leads to patients taking these to mask the pain. When they are no longer able to get prescriptions they turn to the streets to get what their body craves. The cheapest and now easiest to get is heroin, but many youth are turning to ketamine (a synthetic horse tranquilizer).

 

So the term opioid covers the spectrum of users.

[dan360]

Opioids, if I am not mistaken is the term used to describe high strength barbiturates derived from the original opium. Prescription opiates (oxycodone, morphine, OxyContin, and I believe Percocet) are the way individuals get hooked.

 

Long term pain leads to patients taking these to mask the pain. When they are no longer able to get prescriptions they turn to the streets to get what their body craves. The cheapest and now easiest to get is heroin, but many youth are turning to ketamine (a synthetic horse tranquilizer).

 

So the term opioid covers the spectrum of users.

 

Correct.

 

Percocet is a brand name for a formula of immediate release oxycodone with paracetamol aka acetaminophen aka Tylenol..

 

OxyContin is a brand name of controlled release straight oxycodone.

 

There are dozens and dozens of pain relievers derived both from the opium poppy and also synthetically in a laboratory.

 

Opioid is a good catch-all for all of them.....the term opiates works well for the 'naturally' derived, such as heroin, morphine, et al....but technically not correct from a scientific standpoint in regard to the synthetics.

 

So opioids it is.

[Petethreeput]

Opioids, if I am not mistaken is the term used to describe high strength barbiturates derived from the original opium. Prescription opiates (oxycodone, morphine, OxyContin, and I believe Percocet) are the way individuals get hooked.

 

Long term pain leads to patients taking these to mask the pain. When they are no longer able to get prescriptions they turn to the streets to get what their body craves. The cheapest and now easiest to get is heroin, but many youth are turning to ketamine (a synthetic horse tranquilizer).

 

So the term opioid covers the spectrum of users.

 

Correct.

 

Percocet is a brand name for a formula of immediate release oxycodone with paracetamol aka acetaminophen aka Tylenol..

 

OxyContin is a brand name of controlled release straight oxycodone.

 

There are dozens and dozens of pain relievers derived both from the opium poppy and also synthetically in a laboratory.

 

Opioid is a good catch-all for all of them.....the term opiates works well for the 'naturally' derived, such as heroin, morphine, et al....but technically not correct from a scientific standpoint in regard to the synthetics.

 

So opioids it is.

 

Thank you. Ironically enough, I am hoping to get my surgery soon so I am not taking the percocet which I have been prescribed. Scares the crap out of me that I get hooked. Only been a few days tho.

[dan360]

Opioids, if I am not mistaken is the term used to describe high strength barbiturates derived from the original opium. Prescription opiates (oxycodone, morphine, OxyContin, and I believe Percocet) are the way individuals get hooked.

 

Long term pain leads to patients taking these to mask the pain. When they are no longer able to get prescriptions they turn to the streets to get what their body craves. The cheapest and now easiest to get is heroin, but many youth are turning to ketamine (a synthetic horse tranquilizer).

 

So the term opioid covers the spectrum of users.

 

Correct.

 

Percocet is a brand name for a formula of immediate release oxycodone with paracetamol aka acetaminophen aka Tylenol..

 

OxyContin is a brand name of controlled release straight oxycodone.

 

There are dozens and dozens of pain relievers derived both from the opium poppy and also synthetically in a laboratory.

 

Opioid is a good catch-all for all of them.....the term opiates works well for the 'naturally' derived, such as heroin, morphine, et al....but technically not correct from a scientific standpoint in regard to the synthetics.

 

So opioids it is.

 

Thank you. Ironically enough, I am hoping to get my surgery soon so I am not taking the percocet which I have been prescribed. Scares the crap out of me that I get hooked. Only been a few days tho.

 

It affects different people in different ways.

 

I can take Vicodin (hydrocodone + acetaminophen) without issue, where Percocet (oxycodone + acetaminophen) will overwhelm me with nausea and essentially make me puke. With my back issues I have what is essentially a running script for low strength hydrocodone although I have not ingested one since 2013. Aleve works well enough.

 

I have a friend who, when prescribed "Vikes" for shoulder surgery, completely went into a drooling slurring state of numbness from the least potent prescription strength. Yet oxycodone, in any form, works well for him.

 

Neither of us have addictive personalities so there was no issue but for many, the "feel good" is something they end up needing ...... doctors who run people thru like cattle and don't do effective follow up communication are very much to blame for many people overusing and/or abusIn these things.

 

They're hardcore pain pills that get prescribed for things they shouldn't. A person doesn't need oxycodone after minor dental work or 3 stitches. Grow a pair and toughen up. lol

[Richardcabeeza]

No issues here but maybe you know this one. Why are we calling everything "opioids" now? I mean, the issue is heroin right? I know people are hooked on rx pain pills but the overdose epidemic that finds people passed out with kids in the car and the police carrying narcan is heroin isn't it? I never hear the word anymore. Opioids makes it sound like doctors are prescribing drugs and people are OD'ing on Vicodin in the street. But this is heroin. Why don't we use the harsh verbiage and say there is a heroin problem?

 

I 1000000% understand there is a problem with rx painkillers. But aside from suicide attempts no one is overdosing on those. Right?

 

No. I could educate you, and I'm sure I'll try. An "opiod" is any med/drug that activates the mu opioid receptors in the brain. Vicodin is basically the same as herioin as far as the way they work on you. All opioids basically do the same thing. The exception is partial agonists such as tramadol and buprenorphine. One can OD just as easily on rx painkillers as they can on street drugs. The most (gram for gram) potent painkiller on the market is fentnyl. It's being cut into the herioin supply which makes it 1000x more dangerous. It's being done because it's cheaper that H. The really scary s*** is carfentenyl. It's 100x more potent that fentenyl and literally one grain of it in your skin will cause an OD.

 

The bottom line of this permise is that ALL opioids are the same, basically. Where one might call for you to take 100mg another you could be dead with five mcg. Fentenyl and carfentenyl are just bad juju. They're whats causing most of the deaths. That said, in an opiod naive person 50mg oxycodone can kill them stone dead. All of these that aren't partial agonists will cause death in high doses. Sure OD'ing on legit RX pills isn't the main issue right now. If can and absolutely does, cause death. Especially when it's mixed with other CNS depressants such as Xanax, etc. the other part to that, and at least the FDA has recognized this, the acetaminophen in many of the preparations caused a boat load of liver failure. As such they've taken steps to lesson the APAP in these combo pills but a Vicodin addict, one that takes 20 plus pills a day, is literally killing their liver. Quickly.

 

So while it's rare to see true OD's (not really rare, but compared to the current phase of fentenyl and carfentenyl, it's not a huge public health problem), they still happen. Frequently.

 

Couple that with the secondary liver failure and you've got a hot mess. I'm so happy that I don't have to worry about it anymore.

[Richardcabeeza]

No issues here but maybe you know this one. Why are we calling everything "opioids" now? I mean, the issue is heroin right? I know people are hooked on rx pain pills but the overdose epidemic that finds people passed out with kids in the car and the police carrying narcan is heroin isn't it? I never hear the word anymore. Opioids makes it sound like doctors are prescribing drugs and people are OD'ing on Vicodin in the street. But this is heroin. Why don't we use the harsh verbiage and say there is a heroin problem?

 

I 1000000% understand there is a problem with rx painkillers. But aside from suicide attempts no one is overdosing on those. Right?

 

A couple of points. First, heroin is a part of the story, but fentanyl and its derivatives are driving a huge part of it.

 

Second, the prescription painkillers are a very common gateway to addiction. IMHO, it's really important to directly link the prescription drugs with addiction. Many of the people who have fallen to this problem *never* thought they would be 'junkies' - it's critical that people understand just how dangerous that Percocet script is.

 

Still wading my way down the thread. You've hit the nail on the head IMO (and experience ). Nice perspective. Thanks

[Richardcabeeza]

I have a feeling our governor adopted the term opioids because tourism drives our state. Visitors avoids areas with heroin junkies, so we went with opioids to make it appear that 45 year old white women are taking too many Vicodin with their wine instead of trash tossing needles on the sidewalk while they od in the gutter.

It is the same here in South Carolina because Tourism is the #1 industry now. Like other posters said Heroin is the #1 thing on the street but some how down here there is a overall Oxy problem on the streets too. We have a real problem here on the Grand Strand area of SC mostly up in Myrtle Beach. I heard a report on the news the other night stating according to the per capita and other numbers that SC is the worst addicted state in the US and Horry County where most of the Grand Strand lies is the worst addicted county.

 

To the OP that is a great thing that you are trying to help out others and basically educate others about this mass growing problem

 

 

 

Thanks. I think that I'd love to comment more about golf, but since this is where my experience lies, if I can make one person consider their lot, I've gotta try. It's a horrific thing to go through. If I help one person (if you're that person PLEASE pm me, I'm here to help!!). I've got enough years behind me to offer legit advice. Except in rare situations )hospice? Post op, etc) these things should be reserved for true need. If you don't have genuine tears rolling, leave them alone.

[Bingo1976]

Far too many people getting addicted to painkillers these days. I have learnt through my adoption of Buddhism that meditation can help a lot with pain - my mother in law (a devout buddhist) managed a lot of her terminal cancer with meditation, and my wife also manages a long standing medical condition with meditation.

 

We in the west are too quick to pop a pill as a solution for everything, when there are other solutions out there.

[golfandfishing]

I understand that all opioids act the same way. What I'm asking is why do we use that term for the heroin overdoses now? Even in your post where you say it isn't heroin you say it is mixed with heroin. Opioids seems like a sanitized term to me and most others. If we say Scottsdale has an opioid problem then most people think that housewives and attorneys are taking painkillers in their house and offices then going into a stupor for a few hours. What is really happening is junkies are shooting up, tossing their needles on the sidewalk and sleeping it off in a puddle of their own pee in the parking lot of a check cashing store. That is the opioid problem. What happens in homes and offices isn't a public health problem. It's a big time personal issue yes, completely agree. But that doesn't create a problem for most of us. The doped out junkies tossing needles around and breaking into homes and cars to fund their next round of heroin is a public health issue. I wish we referred to it as heroin instead of the cleaner sounding opioid term. We have made it sympathetic to say one has an opioid problem when really they are heroin junkies and once upon a time when society was great we ostracized them and treated them to prison instead of placating them with free needles, sympathy and bogus 4 week feel good treatment programs. The public funds for Narcan is simply theft for a repeat user. I'll give anyone once. If you need Narcan a second time, too bad, funeral time.

[raynorfan1]

I understand that all opioids act the same way. What I'm asking is why do we use that term for the heroin overdoses now? Even in your post where you say it isn't heroin you say it is mixed with heroin. Opioids seems like a sanitized term to me and most others. If we say Scottsdale has an opioid problem then most people think that housewives and attorneys are taking painkillers in their house and offices then going into a stupor for a few hours. What is really happening is junkies are shooting up, tossing their needles on the sidewalk and sleeping it off in a puddle of their own pee in the parking lot of a check cashing store. That is the opioid problem. What happens in homes and offices isn't a public health problem. It's a big time personal issue yes, completely agree. But that doesn't create a problem for most of us. The doped out junkies tossing needles around and breaking into homes and cars to fund their next round of heroin is a public health issue. I wish we referred to it as heroin instead of the cleaner sounding opioid term. We have made it sympathetic to say one has an opioid problem when really they are heroin junkies and once upon a time when society was great we ostracized them and treated them to prison instead of placating them with free needles, sympathy and bogus 4 week feel good treatment programs. The public funds for Narcan is simply theft for a repeat user. I'll give anyone once. If you need Narcan a second time, too bad, funeral time.

 

You're wrong. There's no other way to put it.

 

If we say Scottsdale has an opioid problem then most people think that housewives and attorneys are taking painkillers in their house and offices then going into a stupor for a few hours. What is really happening is junkies are shooting up, tossing their needles on the sidewalk and sleeping it off in a puddle of their own pee in the parking lot of a check cashing store.

 

Housewives and attorneys are taking painkillers in their houses and offices. Then they're becoming junkies. Then they're the ones shooting up on the sidewalk.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/15/business/lawyers-addiction-mental-health.html

 

We can't pretend that it's not a problem as long as it happens with prescription drugs behind closed doors. Because once it's become a problem behind closed doors, it spills out into the streets. Ostracizing people as "junkies" is not helpful. Very few people believe that they will become a "junkie". It needs to be brutally clear that the painkiller prescription that you have after your back surgery is the first step towards an addiction problem, so you can be on alert from the moment that you start using for the potential for there to be a problem.

 

Frankly, if I were prescribed an opiod, I would probably give a loved one a power of attorney to involuntarily commit me to an inpatient rehab facility. That's how dangerous a slippery slope this is.

[golfandfishing]

I doubt highly that the police and paramedics are administering Narcan to people with RX bottles strewn about very often. Let's be honest and call this a heroin epidemic.

[dan360]

I doubt highly that the police and paramedics are administering Narcan to people with RX bottles strewn about very often. Let's be honest and call this a heroin epidemic.

 

The heroin has shock value, but is the visible minority of a much much larger problem.

 

Financially it hits the books of municipal EMS moreso than Julie Homemaker popping some Percs to get through her overwhelming stress of raising 3 children but it's the minority of addicts. Truly.

 

Heroin is also a last resort drug found cheap in black tar form--sometimes cut with things like human and animal feces--for those who either cannot get more prescription pills legally or financially.

 

Percs cost more than a T of brown. For equivalent dose. Once people start smoking their Oxys it's a smooth transition and before long, the needle tears a hole.....

 

 

 

 

[Richardcabeeza]

I doubt highly that the police and paramedics are administering Narcan to people with RX bottles strewn about very often. Let's be honest and call this a heroin epidemic.

 

You can call it anything you want. There more than likely aren't more heroin users or pain medicine abusers than at any time in the recent past. What's making it an epidemic and causing the insane amount of OD's (at least locally) is the fentenyl and carfentenyl tainting the supply. Locally there are police officers that are overdosing because they brush up against a surface that has carfentenyl on it. It's happened way more than one time. There was a study done locally recently and over 80% of heroin had one or the other in it, and even 40+ percent of the cocaine/crack and meth. What really made one think was that this was a facilty set up to test ones drugs and over 90% of the people that were told that these substances were in their stash still took them.

 

I've been told that you can google "buy fentenyl " or "buy carfentenyl " and you can have it shipped straight to you from China (or other places). No wonder that it's killing so many people when a drug dealer can take a gram of heroin and turn it into 100 grams potency wise for very little investment. Back in my using days there was certainly stronger stuff available. Once in a while when purchasing a gram or whatever my dealer would tell me "be careful with this stuff, it's really pure. That probably meant it was 50% pure heroin compared to the 20% normal stuff. You start cutting in something that's 100 to 10,000 times as potent, it changes the ballgame and a ton of people die. Once a tainted supply hits the local markets it makes for a long night for the paramedics. Every couple of months there will be an article in the paper that basically states "between 8-10pm last night local services were inundated with calls. The were 35 OD calls requiring 108 doses of narcan and 4 people died". I almost shout for joy when I see an article about a dealer that gets busted and it says that they were selling fentenyl or carfentenyl. The only problem is that the next man up just takes their place.

 

The whole opiod/opiate thing is just semantics. It's all the same stuff. Very few people wake up and say "you know what, I'm going to start shooting heroin today". A bunch of them start out as respected everyday folk. Maybe they have back pain or a knee replacement. They're given an Rx for an "opiod" and fall in love with it. That was me. I stopped a robbery in progress, ended up in the ER as the good guy, the doctor said "here, let me take away your pain" and I said ok. Found out I LOVED the feeling. Went from stand up citizen to being someone that would lie, beg, steal, etc etc in no time flat. I didn't care if it was an opiod, an opiate, black tar heroin, or something that might kill me at one point. I'm very grateful to even be alive today and I have fantastic children that I certainly don't deserve. As I've stated I have basically no relationship with my wife to this day, 13 years or so later, mainly due to this. She's not a forgive and forget person. I'm ok with that as it's a price I've paid due to my past transgresions. Oh well. At least I'm still a huge and daily part of my children's lives. If I wasn't I don't doubt what kind of person I could become again. I'd love to say that I'd never go back, but even so far in as I am in a clean and healthy lifestyle, I'd hate to have a life event that tested me. Right now it's simple. I have kids that I love more than drugs. I also have no desire to go back to that lifestyle. The issue that I have the most is I'm one of the select few (oh goody on this) that gets chronic kidney stones. It is so hard to turn down relief from this, but I know that if I do I may have a problem worse than kidney stones. I do NOT want that.

 

Again, despite all my typing, my main point here is if anyone needs an ear to bend or advice on how to navigate their way out of a bottomless soul devouring hole, let me know. I'll do anything in my power to steer you in the right direction. Again, im not a trained professional in this field. I do however have tons of real world experience and I don't live in a glass house. I'm here if needed.

[golfandfishing]

Looks like David Feherty has lost a son to an overdose today.

[MrJones]

Housewives and attorneys are taking painkillers in their houses and offices. Then they're becoming junkies. Then they're the ones shooting up on the sidewalk.

 

This is correct. Just like the OP in his story I know of three families that were destroyed starting with painkillers. Person would get hooked, do everything they could to get more, and when they couldn't get it anymore they move to heroin and/or meth.

 

Go on Facebook and look at any post talking about prescription pain killers. In the comments you'll find a lot of people ranting about their "different levels of pain" where they "need" these pain killers and that their doctors don't understand.

[LPSISCO]

Anyone looking for a great book about the rise of the opioid epidemic in the country should read "Dreamland". Fantastic book detailing the a-holes at PurduePharma lying to doctors about Oxy, and the reasons heroin became so cheap and easily accessed in the suburbs.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Dreamland-True-Americas-Opiate-Epidemic/dp/1511336404

[Wriggles]

I truly sympathize with the OP, and people who have become addicted.

 

Through the years, our society feeds on sensationalism. The "aids" epidemic. police brutality, Trump's deplorables, beanie babies, Cabbage Patch Dolls, all illustrate the newscasters desire for ratings. And people, normal or otherwise, really eat it up.

 

By advertising and normalizing the widespread "opioid" epidemic, it tends to spread it more. Treating it as a crime would cause fear of arrest, and lessen the epidemic.

 

Almost deleted my post, for I'm not a hard liner.

 

Main point being, society and the media is fueling the epidemic.

 

PS: The medical profession prescribes this stuff and other drugs like candy. Every commercial on TV seems to be an ad for some drug. The official drug of the PGA tour.

 

Side effects include suicidal thoughts or actions, Blah, blah, blah.

 

Sad.

[BIG STU]

I truly sympathize with the OP, and people who have become addicted.

 

Through the years, our society feeds on sensationalism. The "aids" epidemic. police brutality, Trump's deplorables, beanie babies, Cabbage Patch Dolls, all illustrate the newscasters desire for ratings. And people, normal or otherwise, really eat it up.

 

By advertising and normalizing the widespread "opioid" epidemic, it tends to spread it more. Treating it as a crime would cause fear of arrest, and lessen the epidemic.

 

Almost deleted my post, for I'm not a hard liner.

 

Main point being, society and the media is fueling the epidemic.

 

PS: The medical profession prescribes this stuff and other drugs like candy. Every commercial on TV seems to be an ad for some drug. The official drug of the PGA tour.

 

Side effects include suicidal thoughts or actions, Blah, blah, blah.

 

Sad.

And you know the law suits are a serious thing for those in the medical profession. Every time you turn around there is a commercial for a class action suit over some drug. Hell there will be a commercial from a drug company on TV and 10 minutes later there is some Ambulance Chaser firm filing a law suit over the same drug. I have a lateral hernia have had it for a while and it does not bother me. One of my Doctors I play golf with told me that because of the mesh lawsuits a lot of doctors are cutting back on the hernia repair surgery especially on big guys like me. He knows my hernia Doc and I told him the hernia doc told me the same thing. But hell it does not bother me anyhow. I guess the next thing they will be suing over is if you fart in public you know endangering others with noxious gasses and they will find a way to sue what ever food company or cook's food you ate to cause the emission of gas to begin with

[SixtySomePing]

No issues here but maybe you know this one. Why are we calling everything "opioids" now? I mean, the issue is heroin right? I know people are hooked on rx pain pills but the overdose epidemic that finds people passed out with kids in the car and the police carrying narcan is heroin isn't it? I never hear the word anymore. Opioids makes it sound like doctors are prescribing drugs and people are OD'ing on Vicodin in the street. But this is heroin. Why don't we use the harsh verbiage and say there is a heroin problem?

 

I 1000000% understand there is a problem with rx painkillers. But aside from suicide attempts no one is overdosing on those. Right?

 

No. I could educate you, and I'm sure I'll try. An "opiod" is any med/drug that activates the mu opioid receptors in the brain. Vicodin is basically the same as herioin as far as the way they work on you. All opioids basically do the same thing. The exception is partial agonists such as tramadol and buprenorphine. One can OD just as easily on rx painkillers as they can on street drugs. The most (gram for gram) potent painkiller on the market is fentnyl. It's being cut into the herioin supply which makes it 1000x more dangerous. It's being done because it's cheaper that H. The really scary s*** is carfentenyl. It's 100x more potent that fentenyl and literally one grain of it in your skin will cause an OD.

 

The bottom line of this permise is that ALL opioids are the same, basically. Where one might call for you to take 100mg another you could be dead with five mcg. Fentenyl and carfentenyl are just bad juju. They're whats causing most of the deaths. That said, in an opiod naive person 50mg oxycodone can kill them stone dead. All of these that aren't partial agonists will cause death in high doses. Sure OD'ing on legit RX pills isn't the main issue right now. If can and absolutely does, cause death. Especially when it's mixed with other CNS depressants such as Xanax, etc. the other part to that, and at least the FDA has recognized this, the acetaminophen in many of the preparations caused a boat load of liver failure. As such they've taken steps to lesson the APAP in these combo pills but a Vicodin addict, one that takes 20 plus pills a day, is literally killing their liver. Quickly.

 

So while it's rare to see true OD's (not really rare, but compared to the current phase of fentenyl and carfentenyl, it's not a huge public health problem), they still happen. Frequently.

 

Couple that with the secondary liver failure and you've got a hot mess. I'm so happy that I don't have to worry about it anymore.

 

You have a great heart Richard in wanting to educate and help others. We recently had an Ohio police officer OD just by touching fentenyl at the scene of a traffic stop...

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/officer-nearly-dies-fentanyl-overdose-traffic-stop-ohio/

 

There are 100 opioid deaths per day in the US, which is expected to spike to 250 before it gets better. I don't understand it as I've never been through anything such as this but it really helps to be informed from those who have.

 

My wife just got shingles, and one of the pills they gave her of course is percocet...she only weighs 97, so the first one made her puke, we were just talking about this yesterday, wondering how someone could want any kind of opioid, but I'm sure if you haven't been there, you just wouldn't understand.

 

You see it so much, story after story.. I am a manager in a factory of 500, a few years back we had a nice young couple who met there, she was very beautiful, somehow she got mixed up with heroin, they split, she ran off with some idiot, she lost everything, including her looks, he teeth, nearly her life. Today, you wouldn't even recognize her. So sad, she had such a nice life, at least on the outside, who knows what was going on with her on the inside.

 

thanks for your info and help to others... :superman:

[Richardcabeeza]

That was one of the stories that I remember seeing. I have a very good relationship with local law enforcement now, in my line of work it's needed to provide them information in certain areas. As such I always pick their brains. Our local guys no longer field test suspected heroin because one of them did this, got a few grains on his uniform, and almost died of a carfentenyl OD when he brushed it off of his uniform a little later. He collapsed after brushing the powder off. Luckily one of his fellow officers, mainly due to a training session on the crap they had the week before, thought he was either having a heart attack or was overdosing. He suspected OD and they administered narcan which after several doses brought him back. You can't dose that stuff. It will kill you dead. It was invented to tranq elephants. Quickly before they stomped into jam poor Hector, the safari game warden. They weigh a lot more than we do and effects are largely dependent on weight for equivalent doses.

 

A while back someone (golfandfishing?) was wondering why no one calls this a Heroin epidimic. It's really not from what I've seen. There are probably the same percentage of the population that have issues with these drugs. They're all one and the same for these purposes. I guarantee you anyone going through oxycodone withdrawals will use heroin if it's available. That's a 100%er. They will without question. Almost all of the ones that I've known that have had a problem (me included) started with Rx pain meds. No one wakes up and says "I'm going to shoot Heroin today just for shins and griggles". No one. Most started with some sort of actual need and really (in my case, REALLY!) liked how they felt. When I had my accident stopping a robbery, they dosed me with Diluadid at the hospital. I went from "damn this hurts" to "holy crap, this is amazing" in about a second. They sent me home with 60(?) Percocet. The Diluadid wore off and I popped one. Nothing. Pooped two more. Good. Popped two more, same feeling as the Diluadid. I hope that stuff is available to me when I'm on my death bed, which will be the only time I'll use again. I just won't care that I'm about to go. I'm a huge fan of hospice, I could go on a rant here extolling the virtues but I'll refrain. In that setting everyone should be taking as much relief as possible. There's no danger of becoming addicted and you have enough by your side to end it all at any time painlessly if it gets to be too much suffering. The first time or two I'd like to think it was truly to chase the pain away. I didn't like that an equivalent dose of 20% only took away 20% of the pain although in all honesty that was certainly enough to cope, particularly given the painful issues I've faced with 0% pain relief from opioids since that phase of my life. I've always been an "all in" guy. I used to think it was a good thing as prior to that my energies were channeled into a proper place. I now know that being "all in" also means "addictive personality". It's helped me achieve things that just aren't possible if you aren't passionate about something. The problem arises when you are passionate about everything you do. I try really hard to moderate this aspect of my life. It'd be really easy to spend too much time, money or efforts for someone like me on something pretty healthy like golf. Or this website. Or really anything. I try to be more balanced anymore and I don't spend all of my time doing any one thing, since I obviously could have problems in other areas. If any of us ends up doing a rehab stint for golf addiction it'll be me. If I tend to focus on anything too much it could be trouble.

 

Im starting to ramble so I'll point out that in most non terminal situations lessening the narcotics would probably be a good thing. My junior year of high school I was at wrestling practice. I was wrestling my coach and he fell on me when he went for a throw and I tripped him. I landed on my neck/left shoulder heard a snap and instantly went numb. I started screaming because I couldn't move and I thought that my neck was broken. A few seconds later I can move and my screams of fright turn to screams of pain. It hurt. Probably the only thing in my life that have rivaled kidney stones. I was carted to the hospital with a compound fracture of my left clavicle. The bone was sticking out of the skin. This was back in the day of "ehhhh you'll be alright" at the hospital and I was literally throwing up and passsing out when they manipulated me for X-rays (why? You got me, the bone was sticking out of the skin so it was pretty obvious what had happened). At one point they decided that the smart thing to do was to try to put the bone back into my skin and then stitch that up. Thank god they gave me some relief (in the form of two Tylenol 3's given orally 5 minutes before they did the procedure which as anyone should know did NADA for me 5 minutes later). At least every time I passed out they brought me back with smelling salts, right?

 

My point? I survived that. It was a pretty barbaric night and TBT I'd be pissed if that happened to one of my kids. I'd be demanding that they give them something to keep them from feeling like that. Nowadays no doubt they would too. The T3's actually helped quite a bit, not for that procedure but once I got passed it. I wasn't able to get up from lying down the first couple of days after it happened without them. I remember getting up to hit the head later that first night after I got home and it took me 45 minutes to make it into a sitting position from prone. But they were enough at that point in the pain process to get me through. Honestly outside of the first hour and when they were manipulating the wound, it hurt very little to be 100% still. It's was damn hard to be 100% still but if I achieved that it didn't really hurt. I think if more docs would look at situations as "what can I do to make this livable for this patient for the next couple days" instead of "let's take away his pain or try to make them comfortable " we'd have a lot less problems. Life can be painful. It's part of life. Other than the very worst of it can be tolerated. I'm not one that opposes people using pain meds, don't get me wrong. I am one that opposes them being given out for a hangnail. I had no real legitimate need of the 60 Percocets that were given me when I stopped the robbery. At most I'd have been uncomfortable for a few days. For all I know the first kidney stone would have netted me the same rx and I'd have been in the same place, although if one truly needs them as I did with the collarbone and the T3's, I wasn't taking those to get high. I'm not blaming anyone other than me, don't get me wrong. I'd have landed the same rx after a surgery or with a kidney stone at some point anyways. I'm just saying they weren't necessary that time. Since that particular Rx changed my life, I tend to think about it quite a bit. I certainly wasn't seeking drugs then, they were more given to me as a reward for being the good guy and being dinged up. It started a very bad phase of my life and when I look back at it I remember making jokes and being glib about what had happened with the ER doc. Someone that might be grimacing when they move wrong but are otherwise fine just doesn't need a big rx for schedule 2 pain meds. Maybe 5-10 would have been appropriate? Maybe none? I'm not blaming the doc, I'd have been there at some point legitimately. I however am stating that he shouldn't have written that rx for that quantity that time. It was far from the only time too. I could walk into any urgent care or ER back then and be given a script for 30+ pain pills. Took a full hour out of my day too. From what I hear it's not like that now, which is good. I don't want to see them take it to the other extreme either though. No one should have an ER visit like I had with my clavicle in high school. Big and very complicated topic. Have a good night guys!

[prsgtrman]

I understand that all opioids act the same way. What I'm asking is why do we use that term for the heroin overdoses now? Even in your post where you say it isn't heroin you say it is mixed with heroin. Opioids seems like a sanitized term to me and most others. If we say Scottsdale has an opioid problem then most people think that housewives and attorneys are taking painkillers in their house and offices then going into a stupor for a few hours. What is really happening is junkies are shooting up, tossing their needles on the sidewalk and sleeping it off in a puddle of their own pee in the parking lot of a check cashing store. That is the opioid problem. What happens in homes and offices isn't a public health problem. It's a big time personal issue yes, completely agree. But that doesn't create a problem for most of us. The doped out junkies tossing needles around and breaking into homes and cars to fund their next round of heroin is a public health issue. I wish we referred to it as heroin instead of the cleaner sounding opioid term. We have made it sympathetic to say one has an opioid problem when really they are heroin junkies and once upon a time when society was great we ostracized them and treated them to prison instead of placating them with free needles, sympathy and bogus 4 week feel good treatment programs. The public funds for Narcan is simply theft for a repeat user. I'll give anyone once. If you need Narcan a second time, too bad, funeral time.

 

you are aware that heroin comes from opium correct.

opium to morphine to heroin. i dont think it is too far a stretch go put heroin under the opioid umbrella.

 

the statement that what happens in homes and offices isnt a public health problem is just plain myopic. ive seen many of your posts on this board and i know youre an intelligent guy. just bc someone isnt jamming needles into their arms and homeless doesnt mean they arent committing crimes to get their pills. i have arrested many folks who live in suburban american that are "junkies" and commit crimes to get their pills. further the cycle for those folks, once they or their spouses/families are out of money or have kicked them out is homeless and heroin.

[Petethreeput]

I am currently in this. Early and have simply decided I am done.

 

Went through a surgery which has ended my golf until 2018, but took a lot of Percocet to dull the pain leading up to the surgery. And I was being very cognizant of the amount I was taking. After surgery they gave me another 40 days worth if necessary. Now, I have quit them, but what if someone hasn't read the story and they are popping Percocet for 6 wks?

 

At the end the dr says, "no more you don't need em anymore." So that's when people go off the RX to the street to get their high. And if the pain is gone, it's the high.

 

I think the connection is obvious.

 

On a side note, when my kids heard I had two big bottles of Percocet they noted I could cover much of the deductible. Oh my, what they learn in high school.