Hogan's Mystique

Your-away! · February 2, 2018

Not going to slander the great Ben Hogan, but he did have a history of at least acting like a "d**k" on quite a few occasions. Just a couple of the most memorable ones that I can think of:
In 1960, questioning people at the Masters why they had invited Arnold Palmer...who he didn't think was worthy of playing in the field. Palmer won.
Another one I have heard and seen several times but can't find at the moment, where he said something to the effect of...'I played with a kid today who, if he had a brain in his head, should have won by 10 strokes'.. I think it was the 1960 Open that Palmer won and Nicklaus played in as an amateur. But not totally sure of the place or the exact quote.
Getting a phone call from Gary Player asking for a favor and being told, "Call Mr. Dunlop". Because Player had just signed an equipment contract with Dunlop instead of Hogan's golf club company.

So what you actually mean is Mr Hogan was honest and said what he thought, or didnt say anything at all...if only other pro's nowadays were like that instead of the usual garbage they come out with

rich13 · February 2, 2018

Not going to slander the great Ben Hogan, but he did have a history of at least acting like a "d**k" on quite a few occasions. Just a couple of the most memorable ones that I can think of:
In 1960, questioning people at the Masters why they had invited Arnold Palmer...who he didn't think was worthy of playing in the field. Palmer won.
Another one I have heard and seen several times but can't find at the moment, where he said something to the effect of...'I played with a kid today who, if he had a brain in his head, should have won by 10 strokes'.. I think it was the 1960 Open that Palmer won and Nicklaus played in as an amateur. But not totally sure of the place or the exact quote.
Getting a phone call from Gary Player asking for a favor and being told, "Call Mr. Dunlop". Because Player had just signed an equipment contract with Dunlop instead of Hogan's golf club company.

Hmm.....getting some facts right may be advisable before calling someone a "d*ck".......

1. 1958 Masters, not 1960. Palmer was an 8-time tour winner already, but hadn't won a major..... yet. He'd driven through the night to get to Augusta ( no private jet....yet!), and played appallingly in a practice round, prompting Hogan to ask "How the hell did that Palmer get in the Masters?" Of course, Arnie went on to win that year.

2. Quote is correct, but was said in a complimentary way. Nicklaus himself agreed completely with Hogan's comment.

3. Player had been in negotiations with the Hogan Company about endorsing Hogan clubs. At the last moment, he went with Dunlop, as they offered more money. A few weeks later, Player rang Hogan (Hogan had given Player his personal number, as he did with a few young Pros, to call him if they needed any help. What a "D*ck".). Due to the time difference, Hogan was asleep when the call came through, and, yes, told him to call Mr. Dunlop. I don't think many people would have been entirely happy in that moment either.

For other posters comments about the '53 PGA, matches were played over 36 in a day holes then. Hogan couldn't physically play to tournament standard for 36 holes in one day.

Also, after '53, the sight in his left eye, badly damaged in the auto accident, deteriorated drastically, leaving him with very little depth perception. His putting never recovered.

Great video by the way, BullBear!

birly-shirly · February 2, 2018

I don't really want to get into a discussion of what sort of person Hogan was. Clearly, there were people around him who were completely in thrall to him - and even some of their stories make me question whether I'd want to be in that circle.

What's intriguing to me is just the level of fascination that the guy generates. This thread is picking apart his character based on throwaway remarks that ended up being part of the history of the game.

As far as I can see, people study pictures of Hogans swing in a way that they don't do so often with Nicklaus, or Hagen, or Snead or Nelson or Palmer. In the same way, they pore over and deconstruct what came out of his mouth. You get the feeling that some people would quite like to analyse Hogan's divots. That doesn't happen with any other golfer that I can think of. Trevino is quotable - but for entertainment value. Jones is readable, because he expresses himself so beautifully. But I don't see people analysing the things that Jack or Arnie or Tiger said. Jack said something notable when he conceded Jacklin's putt in the Ryder Cup, but I'm not sure anything else springs to mind. That's not to judge any of them as people - but Hogan was just a phenomenon.

hnryclay · February 2, 2018

The lack of media presence on the tour at that time amplifies the mystique around the players. In a lot of ways I think our society as a whole, and certainly the life of a professional athlete was a lot better before we knew every single thing they did every day. I did not grow up in the 50's but I have a hard time seeing the level of adoration placed on sports professionals that we do now.

scomac2002 · February 2, 2018

Mystery adds to the mystique. In prior times an athlete's personal life was personal. Not so much anymore. There was no myth shattering that happens with regularity today where every move is recorded and analysed. The modern day athlete is just a fragile human being like the rest of us with flaws and frailties. It's not so easy to hold someone up on a pedestal when the whole world is aware of their shortcomings. If anything the athletes of the previous generations were more highly thought of that the stars of today because we weren't aware of their flaws -- Babe Ruth, the Yankee Clipper (Joe DiMaggio), Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle -- they all had their faults, but it didn't seem to matter as it wasn't in the papers everyday.

twidener · February 2, 2018

One other thing about the schedule in 1953. The PGA Championship was played July 1-7. The Open Championship was played July 8-10, but back then there was a mandatory 36 hole qualifier that all of the players had to play. That's how they made up the field for the Open Championship. That qualifier was played on July 6th. In 1953 it would not have been possible for any player to compete in both championships since the schedule overlapped.

dlygrisse · February 2, 2018

Couldn't agree more that Hogan's promoted swing caused more people to slice. I have said this before, but I would have titled the book: "How not to Hook."

The Hogan Mystique was bigger than the man. The Hogan secret was more practice.

If Hogan was a tour player today he would be unlikable. People give Tiger crap for his behavior on the golf course but Hogan off of it was considered by most a dick. That would not play well with 24hr news cycles.

"Hogan off of it was considered by most a dick". That's a big statement about one of the legends of the game. Do you have anything to back it up?

Nope, if Hogan played today he would have a sports psychologist, a trainer, a swing coach, and an agent to spin his reputation.

Hogan was a very private man, there are stories out there about how he treated those close to him, and he was very kind and gracious to those whom he considered friends. But no he didn't suffer fools. And yes, Tiger is really much the same way today.

BeerPerHole · February 2, 2018

In that biography I mentioned earlier on Hogan is the scene where he came up with that quote, "...the harder I work, the luckier I get.." I grasped onto that as soon as I read it. Now that I'm a dad I use it to teach my kids. Always loved that quote.

Bigarch · February 2, 2018

Not going to slander the great Ben Hogan, but he did have a history of at least acting like a "d**k" on quite a few occasions. Just a couple of the most memorable ones that I can think of:
In 1960, questioning people at the Masters why they had invited Arnold Palmer...who he didn't think was worthy of playing in the field. Palmer won.
Another one I have heard and seen several times but can't find at the moment, where he said something to the effect of...'I played with a kid today who, if he had a brain in his head, should have won by 10 strokes'.. I think it was the 1960 Open that Palmer won and Nicklaus played in as an amateur. But not totally sure of the place or the exact quote.
Getting a phone call from Gary Player asking for a favor and being told, "Call Mr. Dunlop". Because Player had just signed an equipment contract with Dunlop instead of Hogan's golf club company.
Hmm.....getting some facts right may be advisable before calling someone a "d*ck".......

1. 1958 Masters, not 1960. Palmer was an 8-time tour winner already, but hadn't won a major..... yet. He'd driven through the night to get to Augusta ( no private jet....yet!), and played appallingly in a practice round, prompting Hogan to ask "How the hell did that Palmer get in the Masters?" Of course, Arnie went on to win that year.

2. Quote is correct, but was said in a complimentary way. Nicklaus himself agreed completely with Hogan's comment.

3. Player had been in negotiations with the Hogan Company about endorsing Hogan clubs. At the last moment, he went with Dunlop, as they offered more money. A few weeks later, Player rang Hogan (Hogan had given Player his personal number, as he did with a few young Pros, to call him if they needed any help. What a "D*ck".). Due to the time difference, Hogan was asleep when the call came through, and, yes, told him to call Mr. Dunlop. I don't think many people would have been entirely happy in that moment either.

For other posters comments about the '53 PGA, matches were played over 36 in a day holes then. Hogan couldn't physically play to tournament standard for 36 holes in one day.
Also, after '53, the sight in his left eye, badly damaged in the auto accident, deteriorated drastically, leaving him with very little depth perception. His putting never recovered.

Great video by the way, BullBear!

Maybe you need to read the full thread first. I never called him a "d**k"

dave willie · February 6, 2018

In that biography I mentioned earlier on Hogan is the scene where he came up with that quote, "...the harder I work, the luckier I get.." I grasped onto that as soon as I read it. Now that I'm a dad I use it to teach my kids. Always loved that quote.

That quote has also been attributed to Thomas Jefferson, among others. It doesn’t matter who coined it; there’re still wise words,

dave willie · February 6, 2018

I’ve heard that Hogan was a man of few words. I think that his replies to Palmer and Player were just concise, humorous declines to offer help to those two players. I especially liked the “ask Mr. Dunlop” line. I wish I could come up with something so pithy when awakened in the middle of the night.

mocokid · February 7, 2018

Not going to slander the great Ben Hogan, but he did have a history of at least acting like a "d**k" on quite a few occasions. Just a couple of the most memorable ones that I can think of:
In 1960, questioning people at the Masters why they had invited Arnold Palmer...who he didn't think was worthy of playing in the field. Palmer won.
Another one I have heard and seen several times but can't find at the moment, where he said something to the effect of...'I played with a kid today who, if he had a brain in his head, should have won by 10 strokes'.. I think it was the 1960 Open that Palmer won and Nicklaus played in as an amateur. But not totally sure of the place or the exact quote.
Getting a phone call from Gary Player asking for a favor and being told, "Call Mr. Dunlop". Because Player had just signed an equipment contract with Dunlop instead of Hogan's golf club company.
Hmm.....getting some facts right may be advisable before calling someone a "d*ck".......

1. 1958 Masters, not 1960. Palmer was an 8-time tour winner already, but hadn't won a major..... yet. He'd driven through the night to get to Augusta ( no private jet....yet!), and played appallingly in a practice round, prompting Hogan to ask "How the hell did that Palmer get in the Masters?" Of course, Arnie went on to win that year.

2. Quote is correct, but was said in a complimentary way. Nicklaus himself agreed completely with Hogan's comment.

3. Player had been in negotiations with the Hogan Company about endorsing Hogan clubs. At the last moment, he went with Dunlop, as they offered more money. A few weeks later, Player rang Hogan (Hogan had given Player his personal number, as he did with a few young Pros, to call him if they needed any help. What a "D*ck".). Due to the time difference, Hogan was asleep when the call came through, and, yes, told him to call Mr. Dunlop. I don't think many people would have been entirely happy in that moment either.

For other posters comments about the '53 PGA, matches were played over 36 in a day holes then. Hogan couldn't physically play to tournament standard for 36 holes in one day.
Also, after '53, the sight in his left eye, badly damaged in the auto accident, deteriorated drastically, leaving him with very little depth perception. His putting never recovered.

Great video by the way, BullBear!

Maybe you need to read the full thread first. I never called him a "d**k"

Hogan said that of Nicklaus after the 60 Open at Cherry Hills.

PS: Hogan did NOT like Palmer for reasons I don't know, but it was not just due to one practice round. When Arnie flew his private plane over the practice range at the Ryder Cup in '6_, when Hogan was captain of the US team, Ben was not amused. He sat Arnie one of the days. Of course the US won easily in that era.

BIG STU · March 21, 2018

My old man knocked around the Tour some in the 40s and early 50s. He was friends with Byron Nelson and Billy Casper to mention a few. Now he did not like Hogan for some reason and he never would say but that was my old man. He told me that his Mother always told him "if you did not have anything nice to say about anyone do not speak of them at all" I know he would never sell Hogan equipment in his shop. Now if one of his customers wanted Hogan Equipment he could and would get it through a friend of his a fellow pro in Eastern Carolina. Never heard him criticize Hogan equipment either.I do remember him one time saying the hosels on those clubs looked funny to him. Of course he was a Macgregor and Wilson man.

When some of the Hogan dealers were selling Apex Shafts for retrofit into other brands they got a letter. His friend sent him a copy of the letter he got and the old man got a chuckle. He stated and that is the one time I heard him say anything bad about Hogan or rather the equipment. "Who in the hell would want to put an inferior shaft into a good set of Macgregor clubs?" Of course he had a hypocritical side to him too especially when it came to making a buck. Quite a few of his big time gambler friends got him to order Hogan clubs (since the shaft deal thing) from his friend and promptly had them pulled and put into Spalding Wilson and Macgregor clubs.

But to defend Mr Hogan who I never met but from what I read of him he had it rough some in life. Everyone reacts differently to life's ups and downs. An old Native American proverb--- "Never criticize a man until you walked a mile in his shoes"