R.I.P Bridgestone Firestone CC

[puttfordoux]

dunno, some of the best shots at Augusta have been out of trees. You do have a choice to take them on, or simply pitch out.

[Big Ben]

I'm sorry Ryan I just don't understand that logic. Would you prefer they remove all the trees so you can play from other fairways? The course was built in 1924 I think, it's not a links course. We have gorgeous topography in Northeastern Ohio and that area of Akron in particular is filled with soft rolling lands. The course simply takes advantage of these features.

 

I'm not defending any style of course. What I prefer is neither here nor there as I'm not a member but to address that point, no, cutting down the trees, in a course that simply plays north-south with fairways stacked in like packed sausages, wouldn't be a good idea. But conversely, saying that the trees are what makes the course is equally absurd.

 

And to say that a thickly tree lined course gives you options makes a joke of the word options. It doesn't give you options. It's not a strategic course at all. It's a penal course. Hit it here or pay the price. Let's not shy away from calling it what it is because we don't like the word.

 

https://www.linksmagazine.com/golf-course-architects-review-firestone-cc-south/

 

https://golfweek.com/2018/07/29/golf-the-forecaddie-a-firestone-farewell-in-akron/

 

"Golf is more interesting when you make players make decisions, and the decision is basically taken out of everybody’s hand there, really,” Geoff Ogilvy once told TMOF."

I respect your opinion and everyone's for that matter. I'm simply trying to understand it. This course requires accuracy off the tee, all the old school club courses in this part of the country do really. Deeply tree lined as you say. It's just the nature of parkland style courses. Are you referring to the lack of doglegs? I'm simply wanting to understand "options" I guess, no malice however it's all good. I'm guessing you mean something like a Nicklaus desIgn that sprolls out with each hole kind of in its own zip code.

[BNGL]

In my opinion having played it, I think the straightness is actually more challenging. It gives you the option to play your shot, draw or fade. It doesn’t dictate to you, you can fit your game to hit. And if you’re on you’re game you’ll play well.

[ryanarneson]

I'm sorry Ryan I just don't understand that logic. Would you prefer they remove all the trees so you can play from other fairways? The course was built in 1924 I think, it's not a links course. We have gorgeous topography in Northeastern Ohio and that area of Akron in particular is filled with soft rolling lands. The course simply takes advantage of these features.

 

I'm not defending any style of course. What I prefer is neither here nor there as I'm not a member but to address that point, no, cutting down the trees, in a course that simply plays north-south with fairways stacked in like packed sausages, wouldn't be a good idea. But conversely, saying that the trees are what makes the course is equally absurd.

 

And to say that a thickly tree lined course gives you options makes a joke of the word options. It doesn't give you options. It's not a strategic course at all. It's a penal course. Hit it here or pay the price. Let's not shy away from calling it what it is because we don't like the word.

 

https://www.linksmag...stone-cc-south/

 

https://golfweek.com...ewell-in-akron/

 

"Golf is more interesting when you make players make decisions, and the decision is basically taken out of everybody's hand there, really," Geoff Ogilvy once told TMOF."

I respect your option and everyone's for that matter. I'm simply trying to understand it. This course requires accuracy off the tee, all the old school club courses in this part of the country do really. Deeply tree lined as you say. It's just the nature of parkland style courses. Are you referring to the lack of doglegs? I'm simply wanting to understand "options" I guess, no malice however it's all good. I'm guessing you mean something like a Nicklaus desIgn that sprolls out with each hole kind of in its own zip code.

 

I love talking golf architecture. No worries.

 

Accuracy off the tee. Let's explore that. #1 at Firestone. Ever so slightly turns shades left to the green.

 

What options do I have? Can I hit a fade? Can I hit a draw? Do I have the option of going for the more difficult landing area if I hit a good shot and as a result I'm rewarded with a better look at the green as opposed to taking a more conservative tee shot line but with a less desirable approach?

 

No, not really. I better hit it pretty straight (and long!) as the fairway is playing less than 30yds wide. There really aren't multiple places to put the ball. Little opportunity to play a variety of shot shapes. Lack of width constrains options. Lack of options is a hallmark of penal golf. There is one answer to the question posed on the tee box. There is no choice to make.

 

Now, that's not to say you don't have to be accurate on a course with options. You can't just spray it all over. There are options though for a variety of well placed shots on every hole. There are multiple answers to the question posed off the tee box.

 

Webb Simpson just said it best after his round today. "I'm a traditionalist. I like getting up on the tee and knowing where I have to hit it" That's Firestone in a nutshell. His comment sums up the reason why pros like the course perfectly.

 

I play at a little public course here in the Denver burbs where there are plenty of holes that play the same way. The only option off the tee is how far you think you can hit it straight. Can't draw or fade because the tee box is in an absolute chute of trees. There is one landing area 10-20 yards wide. If you hit it, you're ok for the next shot. If you miss it, the ball is lost or you are blocked by trees and have to pitch sideways or at least lay up.

 

That style is fine for the pros but it doesn't make a good course, architectural wise. Those are two different goals that sometimes have nothing to do with each other. I play it for a work league and that's the only reason I would set foot on the course.

 

That's one element of penal golf. One option and one option only. Nicklaus golf is also often penal but in a different way usually. That's because Nicklaus designed many of his courses for superhuman golfers like himself. The lack of options usually stems from having to be Jack Nicklaus-esque to find a place on the course where you are given the chance to even see the option. The irony is, his best course, Muirfield, is probably a complete antithesis to that style. There he shows of Width, options and variety.

[Big Ben]

I can dig it, more risk and reward. More to think about. You just don't see it that much on the old tracks.

[Wildwing55]

From 1976 through 1998, the PGA Tour event at Firestone Country Club was the "World Series of Golf," and was sponsored by NEC beginning in 1984. It was founded as a four-man invitational event in 1962, comprising the winners of the four major championships in a 36-hole event.[2] the competitors played in one group for $75,000 in unofficial prize money, televised by NBC.

 

In 1976, it became a 72-hole, $300,000 PGA Tour event and its field was initially expanded to twenty;[3] the victory and $100,000 winner's share went to Nicklaus.[4] The largest first prize at a major in 1976 was $45,000 at the PGA Championship.

 

The World Series of Golf quickly became a leading event on the tour. For many years a victory in it gave a 10-year exemption on the PGA Tour, the same as was granted for a victory in a major championship at that time, and twice as long as is given even for winning a major now. The field consisted of the winners of all the high status men's professional golf tournaments around the world in the previous twelve months. This was quite different from the criteria for the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational listed above, but produced much the same sort of global field.

 

Don't forget, if you're old enough, the CBS Golf Classic was held at Firestone, I believe in the late 60s and early 70s. Great show to watch. I think also the was the American Golf Classic (ACC) held at Firestone, not sure how many years.

 

An iconic venue.

[klebs01]

I can dig it, more risk and reward. More to think about. You just don't see it that much on the old tracks.

 

It’s actually more prevalent on older courses (pre-ww2). The tree lines courses you are used to north of the mason-Dixon weren’t designed that way. They were over planted with trees in the 50s-70s. Firestone isn’t really a 1929 course. It was completely redone by rtj in 1960. It’s typical dark ages penal golf.

[jerebear21]

Honestly nobody knows what a good golf architecture course is anymore. The goal line has been moved so many times. Let’s not move too much dirt they say yet they praise raynor for doing just that during the so call “golden” age of Golf architect.

 

Not enough variety they say but so what. The best player usually prevails at firestone. Isn’t that good enough?

[Big Ben]

Let me get this right, you are trying to tell me that those 100ft trees at Firestone where planted in the 60's? That's impossible

[klebs01]

Let me get this right, you are trying to tell me that those 100ft trees at Firestone where planted in the 60's? That's impossible

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about firestone. Don’t know those trees. I was referring to your comment about courses in that part of the country. Spend some time looking at aerial photos from the past and it’s incredible the over planting that occurred post ww2.

[klebs01]

Let me get this right, you are trying to tell me that those 100ft trees at Firestone where planted in the 60's? That's impossible

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about firestone. Don’t know those trees. I was referring to your comment about courses in that part of the country. Spend some time looking at aerial photos from the past and it’s incredible the over planting that occurred post ww2.

 

Just looked it up. The course was mostly wide open in 1957 and some small trees were planted between then and 1966. There were a few old trees at that point but not many and they were mostly on the east side of the course. The tree growth over the next 40-50 years is incredible.

[CEPick]

In my opinion having played it, I think the straightness is actually more challenging. It gives you the option to play your shot, draw or fade. It doesn’t dictate to you, you can fit your game to hit. And if you’re on you’re game you’ll play well.

 

Firestone gives you the option to draw or fade.... At one single target, a narrow fairway. Straight is straight.

 

Augusta National uses angles and topography brilliantly, despite having long holes where many run together. You can't say Firestone does the same.

[Schley]

Let me get this right, you are trying to tell me that those 100ft trees at Firestone where planted in the 60's? That's impossible

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about firestone. Don’t know those trees. I was referring to your comment about courses in that part of the country. Spend some time looking at aerial photos from the past and it’s incredible the over planting that occurred post ww2.

 

Just looked it up. The course was mostly wide open in 1957 and some small trees were planted between then and 1966. There were a few old trees at that point but not many and they were mostly on the east side of the course. The tree growth over the next 40-50 years is incredible.

 

Trees being taken out is now en vogue to get back to the original architecture of the course designer. Oakmont was the first course I remember doing this that was a classic course and totally changed it from heavily tree lined back to way more open. Restorations almost always involve cutting away trees that were planted over the years by owners, membership committees, etc. It has changed many courses away from the original design. Tree huggers can't stand that these large trees would be cut down and seems counter intuitive, but it does bring back the original design.

 

Olympia Fields hired Keith Foster to master plan their 2 courses, we shall see if it gets approved by the membership, but basically they will cut down hundreds (maybe a couple thousand) trees and redo the bunkers back to original size. Minimal work on the greens from what I hear. Why? Trees have encroached on the original design and have created pretty tight corridors to play in. Looking forward to it.

 

The minimalist designers of the last 10-20 years, Coore & Crenshaw, Tom Doak, Gil Hanse, MIke DeVries, etc. generally try and move the least amount of dirt and have taken away the tight tree lined element. Fescue and native grasses replace any Tom Fazio, Jack Nicklaus, etc. unnecessary artificial lakes, streams, bunkers. I prefer minimalist design myself and always look forward to another C&C, Doak, Hanse that I will play.

[BNGL]

In my opinion having played it, I think the straightness is actually more challenging. It gives you the option to play your shot, draw or fade. It doesnt dictate to you, you can fit your game to hit. And if youre on youre game youll play well.

 

Firestone gives you the option to draw or fade.... At one single target, a narrow fairway. Straight is straight.

 

Augusta National uses angles and topography brilliantly, despite having long holes where many run together. You can't say Firestone does the same.

 

Firestone CC uses angles and topography brilliantly.

 

 

Huh...I just did.

[buckeyefl]

In my opinion having played it, I think the straightness is actually more challenging. It gives you the option to play your shot, draw or fade. It doesn't dictate to you, you can fit your game to hit. And if you're on you're game you'll play well.

 

Firestone gives you the option to draw or fade.... At one single target, a narrow fairway. Straight is straight.

 

Augusta National uses angles and topography brilliantly, despite having long holes where many run together. You can't say Firestone does the same.

 

You keep yammering and keep saying things that simply arent true. Its quite obvious you are uneducated when it comes to the topic and lack any specific knowledge of the course or the terms you use when it comes to the topic, or you are just trolling.

[Greg_B]

I find Firestone looks claustrophobic on TV due to the narrowness of the shot corridors thanks to the abundance of trees, but I have no idea whether the pros mind that all that much (Harbour Town is similar in that respect). One thing I would love to see is older footage of the course back in the '60s when it was used for the American Golf Classic. I remember in the '80s/'90s Ken Venturi always used to comment on how different it was before Firestone lost all their elm trees because of Dutch Elm disease and had to replant different species that needed to grow in. It may have been quite a different course originally.

[bullie76]

From 1976 through 1998, the PGA Tour event at Firestone Country Club was the "World Series of Golf," and was sponsored by NEC beginning in 1984. It was founded as a four-man invitational event in 1962, comprising the winners of the four major championships in a 36-hole event.[2] the competitors played in one group for $75,000 in unofficial prize money, televised by NBC.

 

In 1976, it became a 72-hole, $300,000 PGA Tour event and its field was initially expanded to twenty;[3] the victory and $100,000 winner's share went to Nicklaus.[4] The largest first prize at a major in 1976 was $45,000 at the PGA Championship.

 

The World Series of Golf quickly became a leading event on the tour. For many years a victory in it gave a 10-year exemption on the PGA Tour, the same as was granted for a victory in a major championship at that time, and twice as long as is given even for winning a major now. The field consisted of the winners of all the high status men's professional golf tournaments around the world in the previous twelve months. This was quite different from the criteria for the WGC-Bridgestone Invitational listed above, but produced much the same sort of global field.

 

Don't forget, if you're old enough, the CBS Golf Classic was held at Firestone, I believe in the late 60s and early 70s. Great show to watch. I think also the was the American Golf Classic (ACC) held at Firestone, not sure how many years.

 

An iconic venue.

 

I wish TGC could obtain rights to the old CBS Golf classic shows as they were very entertaining.

[CEPick]

In my opinion having played it, I think the straightness is actually more challenging. It gives you the option to play your shot, draw or fade. It doesn't dictate to you, you can fit your game to hit. And if you're on you're game you'll play well.

 

Firestone gives you the option to draw or fade.... At one single target, a narrow fairway. Straight is straight.

 

Augusta National uses angles and topography brilliantly, despite having long holes where many run together. You can't say Firestone does the same.

 

You keep yammering and keep saying things that simply arent true. Its quite obvious you are uneducated when it comes to the topic and lack any specific knowledge of the course or the terms you use when it comes to the topic, or you are just trolling.

 

You are a homer and can't stand that someone would have a differing opinion on a course that you obviously are defending because you have ties to the area.

[rangersgoalie]

The push for width and strategy is also just a bit more gasoline on the fire of increasing distance guys hit it

[fly787]

the course is about as boring as it gets when watching on TV...

[HoffTTM]

Pointless bunkers 10 yards in the rough that are better to be in than the actual rough, now that the fairways are firm you can't shape shots enough to hold them because they arent wide enough/trees, jungle rough 3' off the green requiring that ugly tour stab shot

 

Just no thanks, glad its gone and would have been already if it wasn't tigers second home imo

[CEPick]

Firestone a great course, they said.

 

Lots of imagination here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ole3wiggle]

Firestone a great course, they said.

 

Lots of imagination here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Hillbilly, what exactly would you like to see? please show us...

 

Here's one of the best courses in the United States, Oakmont Country Club. Might have heard of it. It's almost as if every course in the midwest is designed this way.

[buckeyefl]

Pointless bunkers 10 yards in the rough that are better to be in than the actual rough, now that the fairways are firm you can't shape shots enough to hold them because they arent wide enough/trees, jungle rough 3' off the green requiring that ugly tour stab shot

 

Just no thanks, glad its gone and would have been already if it wasn't tigers second home imo

 

Yes 60 years of tournaments all because of Tiger. Just uninformed IMO.

[buckeyefl]

Firestone a great course, they said.

 

Lots of imagination here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Hillbilly, what exactly would you like to see? please show us...

 

Here's one of the best courses in the United States, Oakmont Country Club. Might have heard of it. It's almost as if every course in the midwest is designed this way.

 

He still hasn't said what's wrong with this layout. Just don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent response from her.

 

 

[snizzle]

I grew up watching the old Firestone Tournament of Champions back in the 70's and 80's and personally love these old tree lined courses. Very sad to see FCC off the PGA schedule next season. I really hope they bring it back at some point. It's a big economic hit for the City of Akron to lose this tournament too.

[CEPick]

Firestone a great course, they said.

 

Lots of imagination here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey Hillbilly, what exactly would you like to see? please show us...

 

Here's one of the best courses in the United States, Oakmont Country Club. Might have heard of it. It's almost as if every course in the midwest is designed this way.

Lol the guy from Ohio insulting someone else on where they're from.

 

And you really want to compare Oakmont and Firestone?

[CEPick]

Three of the best architects in the game today give their opinions on Firestone. Spoiler alert: they don't like it. I guess they must be ignorant too.

 

https://www.linksmagazine.com/golf-course-architects-review-firestone-cc-south/

[george49]

There's reason a senior major is being played at Firestone with Bridgestone sponsoring next year. I would not be surprised if the regular PGA returns there in the future.

[BNGL]

Not to be too mysterious but...

 

don’t be surprised if a major event returns to Firestone CC. Waiting for my flight back to Florida and was catching up with a good friend of mine who’s plugged into a golf organization. Before we parted i asked if an event would come back to Firestone CC.

 

“It’s being talked about right now, Firestone CC is a great course that has produced quality champions and memorable moments.”

 

Will update as I hear more.