R.I.P Bridgestone Firestone CC

[cwglum]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

[ryanarneson]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

I would suppose the Firestone CC treats the pros very well. It's an immaculately groomed and lush venue, that's for sure. Pros loved coming to Castle Pines in Colorado for the International as well and raved about the milkshakes in the clubhouse.

 

I suppose if you played well (and won money) there you'd like it. Funny how that happens. But, if someone had a patch of land and money, do you think they'd build another Firestone South course layout in 2018? I'd lay my money on not.

 

Hey, another long north-south par 4!

[Big Ben]

Not sure if anyone caught the players interviews. To a man they all voiced there love and appreciation of Firestone. Many tagged it as one of there favorite courses. It is an iconic course after all with rich history. There's no denying it's right in front of you but trust me it's a brute from the back tees with tight fairways and very lush rough. Its actually quite frustrating because you think to yourself I can score here but it's just not that easy! It's simply a old, fun challenging test of golf with no tricks but plenty of sutle nuonse.

[Tiptx1122]

This course is not boring as yes if you can bomb it straight then its to your advantage. This is a nice looking course especially in person as I have been going there the last few years and I like how well the gallery is towards the golfers and the volunteers do a great job there. It's a change of pace with the fairways lined with trees and it can be very challenging as it's going to be sad now to know this is the last year for it. I just came back from there as this will be my last year ever attending it. No desire to watch a Senior Major there as you watch how bad the attendance will drop. Its a big mistake to move this tournament

[CEPick]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

[imakaveli]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

Pick a US Open of your choice :D

[buckeyefl]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

Would you like an alphabetic list or chronological? Look up Chambers Bay and enjoy your day. Why the 'besides"?

[BNGL]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

This years honda where the greens weren’t great. I’ve got texts from the champion and various other players asking why the greens “sucked”. Quail Hollow a few years ago when they lost the greens right before the event. And many many others.

[gioguy21]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

Would you like an alphabetic list or chronological? Look up Chambers Bay and enjoy your day. Why the 'besides"?

stick to the narrative...lol

[moegolfer11]

Firestone CC isn't the best CC in Ohio, not even by a long shot. But is it a nice course worthy of a PGA Tour event? Absolutely. The real challenges on the course come from the narrowness, length and just treacherous undulating greens. It's a really fun course to play, and I enjoyed it a whole lot when I played it. But, to be completely honest, I think the West Course is way more fun.

[CEPick]

Jeez you Ohio guys get butthurt. I know it's been a bad couple of weeks but c'mon.

 

 

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

Would you like an alphabetic list or chronological? Look up Chambers Bay and enjoy your day. Why the 'besides"?

 

Please start with chronological.

[CEPick]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

Pick a US Open of your choice :D

 

Still not the case. They may b**** and moan but very seldom come out and just rip the course and their experience. They might rip the USGA, on the other hand.

[buckeyefl]

Firestone a great course, they said.

 

Lots of imagination here.

 

 

 

 

 

[buckeyefl]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

Pick a US Open of your choice :D

 

Still not the case. They may b**** and moan but very seldom come out and just rip the course and their experience. They might rip the USGA, on the other hand.

 

"Find me" followed by excuses when examples are found with plenty more waiting in the wings.

[jerebear21]

the goal line keeps getting moved

 

why do you guys even bother?

[buckeyefl]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

This years honda where the greens weren’t great. I’ve got texts from the champion and various other players asking why the greens “sucked”. Quail Hollow a few years ago when they lost the greens right before the event. And many many others.

 

And quite a few US Open Courses, Bayhill, Harbortown, Disney, Open courses, etc etc. I guess he wants billboards placed on every street corner. The list of courses Ive heard players complain about is long indeed.

[BNGL]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

This years honda where the greens weren’t great. I’ve got texts from the champion and various other players asking why the greens “sucked”. Quail Hollow a few years ago when they lost the greens right before the event. And many many others.

 

And quite a few US Open Courses, Bayhill, Harbortown, Disney, Open courses, etc etc. I guess he wants billboards placed on every street corner. The list of courses Ive heard players complain about is long indeed.

 

Beg to differ on Bay Hill and Disney’s Palm. Both were always excellent shape for tournaments....

[Lagavulin62]

I’ve never watched this tournament much but the course looks like a very challenging, yet fair layout, for just about anyone to play. Par 3’s from member tees are easily reachable for most. Although tree lined there is no worry of holding back or crazy carries on most shots. Looks like you have a number of different options into the greens. I bet it would be a fun course, looks playable.

 

The problem with most courses today, and I’m guessing it’s more an American problem, is that designers think at least one third of every layout must be water and the then consist of strictly defined landing areas. So many holes today are limited option, meaning you have one spot and you better get it there or else. Golf should be a game of choices, some better than others, risk reward. I get so tired of seeing so many sink or swim layouts, do or die. And for crying out loud does every dang course need a cheesy island green? I think it’s a shame so many feel these “championship, resort” type designs should be the norm.

[buckeyefl]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

Find me a situation where a tour pro said something bad about their experience at a course (besides Bubba in France and Chambers Bay).

 

This years honda where the greens weren’t great. I’ve got texts from the champion and various other players asking why the greens “sucked”. Quail Hollow a few years ago when they lost the greens right before the event. And many many others.

 

And quite a few US Open Courses, Bayhill, Harbortown, Disney, Open courses, etc etc. I guess he wants billboards placed on every street corner. The list of courses Ive heard players complain about is long indeed.

 

Beg to differ on Bay Hill and Disney’s Palm. Both were always excellent shape for tournaments....

 

Bayhill had a bad stretch when they changed the greens ( early 2000's I think) and many players stayed away until the thatch built up. The players not coming that year or two was pretty controversial. Disney had its detractors within the ranks but they didn't broadcast that publicly since the Mouse was their neighbor. My point was that players have preferences and they b**** more than people realize.

 

I should have said a few, not many. Not attending was a big NO NO back then.

[mukster]

Personally, I believe "Have you played there?" is not any form of an argument for defending people's view on the course. Most of the posts state that they find it very boring to watch.

The vast majority of golf fans will never play any of the PGA venues that they show on TV. People will either like or dislike a course because of what they see on TV. There are a number of events on TV that I find relatively boring and will not watch much of those events. I have never and will probably never play there.

We lost our PGA event up here in Vancouver due to sponsorship issues and it does suck. For the people living close to the Firestone CC, this obviously also sucks. For people that find this boring to watch on TV, it doesn't.

Trying to tell someone that they should or shouldn't like a course is a little silly, it's a personal opinion (in my opinion of course ;) )

[Lagavulin62]

I think most everyone, highly skilled or not, wants to play a course that is fun, fair, a good test that’s not overly tricked out and created for some TV visual effects. People see through all the gimmicks and they just want the freedom to play the game to their style. My opinion anyway. I don’t see a lot of difference in course preferences among skill levels. I feel like a lot of these courses are just thrown at us and it’s good to know the pros speak out.

[CEPick]

 

This years honda where the greens weren’t great. I’ve got texts from the champion and various other players asking why the greens “sucked”. Quail Hollow a few years ago when they lost the greens right before the event. And many many others.

 

Bayhill had a bad stretch when they changed the greens ( early 2000's I think) and many players stayed away until the thatch built up. The players not coming that year or two was pretty controversial. Disney had its detractors within the ranks but they didn't broadcast that publicly since the Mouse was their neighbor. My point was that players have preferences and they b**** more than people realize.

 

No, you were defending a point above that said pros say nice things about Firestone so it must be a great course. My point is you can find pros that say nice things about every course so that isn't relevant. Heck, tons of guys defend Chambers still.

[BNGL]

Trust me buck I know more about players thoughts on a course than almost anyone on this board. Just messaged you lol

[CMCSGolf]

CEPick - - if the course is boring, why do so many tour pros enjoy the course? Plenty of distance, tree lined, no tricks and immaculate conditions.

 

I have to assume you've played it to have a real opinion.

 

The second sentence is the answer to why the course is boring. Long with trees everywhere and no interesting features. Many pros love boring courses because they want a tournament that only tests the execution of their golf swing, less so their imagination on how to get the ball in the hole as quickly as possible. I would guess some would rather hold a tournament in a simulator than on a windy day.

[3puttchamp]

I thought this was a thread about Tiger?

 

edit: wrong thread.

[ryanarneson]

I've never watched this tournament much but the course looks like a very challenging, yet fair layout, for just about anyone to play. Par 3's from member tees are easily reachable for most. Although tree lined there is no worry of holding back or crazy carries on most shots. Looks like you have a number of different options into the greens. I bet it would be a fun course, looks playable.

 

The problem with most courses today, and I'm guessing it's more an American problem, is that designers think at least one third of every layout must be water and the then consist of strictly defined landing areas. So many holes today are limited option, meaning you have one spot and you better get it there or else. Golf should be a game of choices, some better than others, risk reward. I get so tired of seeing so many sink or swim layouts, do or die. And for crying out loud does every dang course need a cheesy island green? I think it's a shame so many feel these "championship, resort" type designs should be the norm.

 

What do you say when you look at the narrow tree lined fairways of Firestone? How does that present anyone any options other than follow the sculpted bowling lane right in front of you? Maybe DJ can find a dogleg to cut but 99% of the players could just have their caddie point them down the middle and hit their tee shot blindfolded for all the options they're given.

 

It's a prime example of Dark Ages Penal golf architecture. There is one way to play and one way only. Follow the trees. Some above said the players like the course because it takes away any need for imagination and is solely a test of their golf swing. That's spot on. It's trackman/simulator golf and that's what today's pro players thrive on.

 

They like it because it's extremely predictable. See a shot of XX yards? Hit a shot of XX yards. Putt for birdie.

[Darth Putter]

List of courses on this year's PGA Tour I prefer over Firestone CC South.

 

Augusta National

Pebble Beach

Carnoustie

Shinnecock Hills

Muirfiled Village

Riviera

Colonial

TPC Sawgrass

Harbour Town

Spyglass Hill

[Big Ben]

I'm sorry Ryan I just don't understand that logic. Would you prefer they remove all the trees so you can play from other fairways? The course was built in 1924 I think, it's not a links course. We have gorgeous topography in Northeastern Ohio and that area of Akron in particular is filled with soft rolling lands. The course simply takes advantage of these features.

[Big Ben]

List of courses on this year's PGA Tour I prefer over Firestone CC South.

 

Augusta National

Pebble Beach

Carnoustie

Shinnecock Hills

Muirfiled Village

Riviera

Colonial

TPC Sawgrass

Harbour Town

Spyglass Hill

And nobody would argue that list, it's amazing (accept for Harbour Town).

[ryanarneson]

I'm sorry Ryan I just don't understand that logic. Would you prefer they remove all the trees so you can play from other fairways? The course was built in 1924 I think, it's not a links course. We have gorgeous topography in Northeastern Ohio and that area of Akron in particular is filled with soft rolling lands. The course simply takes advantage of these features.

 

I'm not defending any style of course. What I prefer is neither here nor there as I'm not a member but to address that point, no, cutting down the trees, in a course that simply plays north-south with fairways stacked in like packed sausages, wouldn't be a good idea. But conversely, saying that the trees are what makes the course is equally absurd.

 

And to say that a thickly tree lined course gives you options makes a joke of the word options. It doesn't give you options. It's not a strategic course at all. It's a penal course. Hit it here or pay the price. Let's not shy away from calling it what it is because we don't like the word.

 

https://www.linksmagazine.com/golf-course-architects-review-firestone-cc-south/

 

https://golfweek.com/2018/07/29/golf-the-forecaddie-a-firestone-farewell-in-akron/

 

"Golf is more interesting when you make players make decisions, and the decision is basically taken out of everybody’s hand there, really,” Geoff Ogilvy once told TMOF."