MD/DC/VA Golfers - Twelve Monkeys Mental Divergence

[TheCityGame]

I know some here have been following and hoping for NPS to do the right thing and find the right partner to reinvest some love in EP, Langston, and Rock Creek. Thought this was a really cool post from Michael Martin on IG, showing some original photos and routing of part of EP. Some amazing bunkering and aethestics. I really think they could make that facilty the Bethpage of the Mid-Atlantic if they could restore it to what it once was. I am sure it would mean a hike in fees but I'd pay a little more to see it as Travis intended

 

https://www.instagra...id=hpjvm28tmeqm

I had no idea. Reversible layout. Centerline bunkering. Wild stuff.

[TheCityGame]

City's sandie on 18, while totally within the bounds of the definition we set, was grimy. He got into the front bunker in 2, blasted on, and 2-putted for the sandie.

 

I always took a sandie to mean any time you make par or better on a hole having been in a bunker.

 

Seems legit to me.

 

The metal core golf ball though, thats a hard pass.

FTR, that's not exactly what the current Oncore Elixir is. . .there's metal (they say "high density material" so it's whatever) in the mantle. But, it's not a metal core.

 

[SullGolf]

I'd personally love to see EPP get renovated to a top notch course and have fees double. I'm not so sure it's the best thing for golf in DC though. It has it's own unique vibe due to the fact that it's a central, inexpensive, newbie accessible course. I hope they can find a way to keep that while making it better. Not everything has to be a country club experience. Personally, I'd keep/renovate the White and Blue courses, then blow up the Red and practice holes and just make that a big practice facility. You aren't allowed to hit a chip at EPP without renting a practice hole. Bogus.

 

My dad's course is a Travis design. There are a few forced carries, but it's only because the course is on a tidal river that you have to play over/around. Otherwise it's really accessible for inexperienced golfers, but has a lot of fun elements to it. Small and undulating greens that can be really challenging to score well on.

[SullGolf]

I would also move the club house so it abuts Ohio Drive, with a big patio overlooking the channel or Potomac.

[dcmidnight]

I hope they can find a way to keep that while making it better. Not everything has to be a country club experience.

 

The great thing about EPP is that its cheap and accessible. Not every course has to be hard to get on or cost $100 to play or require sleeping in your car to get a tee time.

 

I played EPP exclusively for the first 4 or so years after I moved to Arlington. And it was fantastic for what it was. Problem is, it really hasn't changed much since then.

 

The thesis that guy wrote is worth the read though. Listening to the Fried Egg ep now.

[dcmidnight]

As far as making it more like Bethpage, just isnt going to happen IMO. There's no more land to really do *too* much. You could clean up/spruce up whats there now. But its not like you can really spread it out too much.

 

I love the idea of turning the Red into a big practice facility.

[FAbb]

Yeah, there's about zero chance PQ is the one that convinced you to play to the bottom on 12, Sully. It had to be City. I'm about 900 more data points away from settling on a final strategy. I think I'm gonna switch it up and start hitting it to the bottom with either hybrid or 3w, depending on tee location, and conditions. I just don't own a reliable bunt with the driver, and I hit it just far enough that I can get myself in trouble swinging away with it.

 

The Oncore isn't weird, DC. I think Nike did basically the same thing with their ball line, starting around the 20XI series. They made a lighter core, with heavier outer layer(s).

[SullGolf]

It might have been City instead of PQ, but I'm never going to admit that.

[dcmidnight]

The Oncore isn't weird, DC. I think Nike did basically the same thing with their ball line, starting around the 20XI series. They made a lighter core, with heavier outer layer(s).

 

Did they have actual metal in them? Then yeah, its weird.

 

Making a lighter core and heavier outer layer is different than actually putting metal in the ball.

 

Oncore describes the same thing in a bunch of different ways on the same page, so much marketingspeak:

 

metal-infused ionomer mantle

 

metal-infused mantle for optimal spin characteristics

 

metal particle-infused mantle delivers actual perimeter weighting

[Von_Oberhausen]

Whoah. If you look at the next IG post at that link, it says EPP hosted the second ever U.S. Pub Links.

 

http://www.usga.org/championships/2014/us-amateur-public-links-champions-21474861812.html

 

Winning score in 1923: 153.

 

Winning score now: 125.

[dcmidnight]

Oncore is the same company that marketed that GPS ball for $25 per ball right?

 

I cant find it on their website but I'm pretty sure its the same company.

 

Oh and City, Oncore also made/makes a ball with a metal core. So I remembered sort of correctly.

[GoldenBellGW]

As far as making it more like Bethpage, just isnt going to happen IMO. There's no more land to really do *too* much. You could clean up/spruce up whats there now. But its not like you can really spread it out too much.

 

I love the idea of turning the Red into a big practice facility.

 

I should have qualified my Bethpage comparison. By that, I meant the restoration process that Bethpage underwent in terms of the quality of the course you have now. NYSPA let Bethpage pretty much become a dirt path before the USGA got involved and made it championship-worthy as far as condition. I am not campaigning for Bethpage=like greens fees, but I'd pay an small increase to have a gem in that location. There is really no other course like it to begin with, and you can only image the uniqueness if you restore the reversible design and get quality conditions.

 

There's actually only a few people I know that have gotten access to Travis' original routing, so there may be availability to lengthen the layout when you apply the reversible design originally intended. Obviously, you could never accomodate spectators en-masse, but I think you could make it a stern test.

[SullGolf]

Also, the fact that EPP sits on a peninsula like that and you NEVER see the water is a travesty. Lining up your tee shot with the Washington Monument is pretty darn cool, but overall the course is severely under performing on taking advantage of its location. There has to be a better way of protecting the road from errant golf balls than what they do now.

[TheCityGame]

Oncore is the same company that marketed that GPS ball for $25 per ball right?

 

I cant find it on their website but I'm pretty sure its the same company.

 

Oh and City, Oncore also made/makes a ball with a metal core. So I remembered sort of correctly.

Yes, not the elixir. They started with a metal core ball. It wasn't a great ball, according to themselves.

 

They're trying to make (or making) a gps enabled ball. I don't think they'll ever try, or get, USGA approval. I don't think that's their endgame with it any more than it was the end game of the anti-slice ball.

 

If you actually care, this is a good write-up of the origins of the company. . .

 

https://Not allowed because of spam.com/blue-oceans-balls-the-story-of-oncore-golf/

[dcmidnight]

Oncore is the same company that marketed that GPS ball for $25 per ball right?

 

I cant find it on their website but I'm pretty sure its the same company.

 

Oh and City, Oncore also made/makes a ball with a metal core. So I remembered sort of correctly.

Yes, not the elixir. They started with a metal core ball. It wasn't a great ball, according to themselves.

 

They're trying to make (or making) a gps enabled ball. I don't think they'll ever try, or get, USGA approval. I don't think that's their endgame with it any more than it was the end game of the anti-slice ball.

 

If you actually care, this is a good write-up of the origins of the company. . .

 

https://Not allowed because of spam.co...of-oncore-golf/

 

Yeah I have read that before. And posting to the contrary, I really dont care that much.

 

In the bigger picture I think its great there are a ton of new ball companies trying out new things these days. But - especially this time of year - all the major OEMs have so many good sales that you'd be hard pressed to convince me to pay over $30/dozen for something thats that different.

[dcmidnight]

Also, the fact that EPP sits on a peninsula like that and you NEVER see the water is a travesty. Lining up your tee shot with the Washington Monument is pretty darn cool, but overall the course is severely under performing on taking advantage of its location. There has to be a better way of protecting the road from errant golf balls than what they do now.

 

Agreed - the only time you really see the water there is the few times a year when the river floods the place.

 

Personally, I dont think EPP should be made any harder. The one nice thing is that I have completely beginner friends that will go there without feeling overwhelmed. Its a really great course to introduce people to the idea of playing 18 holes.

[misplacedtexan83]

I wonder if they cut a deal with Continental. Hey, we will produce the ugliest driver imaginable if you cut us in every time someone sends it to you for a repaint.

 

I predict for every person that says how ugly it is, at least 25% of those people end up with it in their bags anyway.

 

Budget Golf has 20% off any one item today, looking at picking up a pair of the Ecco Cage Pros for a little under $100. Really happy with the Eccos I bought last summer.

 

Ugly as hell.

 

First words out of my mouth when I held it and hit it.

 

But it is the bottom so meh.

 

Oregon Duck fans are happy.

[FAbb]

The Snell MTB seems like a great deal at $25/duzz on the 6-packs. I've never played it, but I assume it's just as good as anything in the premium ball range.

 

Between the competition among major OEMs, and all the small direct to consumer offerings, there's really no reason to be paying full price for any golf ball. Even Titleist, the most price protected offering out there, does buy 3 get 1 duzz free in the spring.

 

I wonder what percentage of the EPP customer base gives two $hits about the place changing at all. Would dumping money into a restoration and raising the rates basically be the golf equivalent of gentrification?

[HighBoomingDraws]

Cut blues $16 a dozen cyber Monday. To Fabb’s point, thinking of pulling the trigger. Should be similar to every other 4 piece urethane out there.

[TheCityGame]

I've played Snell MTB. It didn't jump out at me as good or bad.

 

Keep in mind, I suspect most ball reviews are really just reviews of how well you hit the ball that day. Even my own, when I'm fully conscious of this phenomenon.

 

But I do like the feel of the Oncore and I haven't played it too much and I've now played a couple really good rounds with it.

 

Honestly, I usually feel like when I catch one and when Bae and Fabb catch one, they're usually about 15 yards further than me. Yesterday, it felt more like 8-10 yards.

[dcmidnight]

I thought TGW was running that Titleist deal right now but it looks like its just $39 for custom numbered dozens.

[TheCityGame]

I thought TGW was running that Titleist deal right now but it looks like its just $39 for custom numbered dozens.

That's about the same price as the 4 for 3 they do every year anyway, right?

 

Aren't they up at like $50+ per dozen?

[FAbb]

I've played Snell MTB. It didn't jump out at me as good or bad.

 

Keep in mind, I suspect most ball reviews are really just reviews of how well you hit the ball that day. Even my own, when I'm fully conscious of this phenomenon.

 

But I do like the feel of the Oncore and I haven't played it too much and I've now played a couple really good rounds with it.

 

Honestly, I usually feel like when I catch one and when Bae and Fabb catch one, they're usually about 15 yards further than me. Yesterday, it felt more like 8-10 yards.

 

I don't think it's 15 yards. And Bae definitely hits it a bit further than I do.

 

Not to squash the "it's gotta be the shoes!" theory too aggressively, but I think soft course conditions are the biggest equalizer of any difference in distance between us. I think our carry distances are generally similar, but I get more roll.

 

To add to that, you had more of a draw working yesterday, which I think got you some additional ground distance that the higher straighter ball you hit at times doesn't get.

 

I've said this before - I do perceive a difference playing with a V1 vs. V1X model equivalent in any OEM's ball line. To say the V1 is better than the V1 equivalent in any OEM's ball line, or visa versa is splitting hairs. They're all good, and basically equivalent.

[baddomes]

Do whatever they need to do to the Blue Course to make it great. Introduce a resident/visitor greens fee structure. $200 for anyone not living in the district. $50 for anyone living in the district.

 

or

 

Don't do anything to EPP. Any of the courses. Leave them alone. The place prints money today. Spend all of the money on Langston and Rock Creek to make them places more people will want to go to.

 

The only thing they need to do to east potomac (and all courses) is put irrigation in. The geese dig holes in the greens. Invent a way to get rid of geese.

[HighBoomingDraws]

I've played Snell MTB. It didn't jump out at me as good or bad.

 

Keep in mind, I suspect most ball reviews are really just reviews of how well you hit the ball that day. Even my own, when I'm fully conscious of this phenomenon.

 

But I do like the feel of the Oncore and I haven't played it too much and I've now played a couple really good rounds with it.

 

Honestly, I usually feel like when I catch one and when Bae and Fabb catch one, they're usually about 15 yards further than me. Yesterday, it felt more like 8-10 yards.

 

I don't think it's 15 yards. And Bae definitely hits it a bit further than I do.

 

Not to squash the "it's gotta be the shoes!" theory too aggressively, but I think soft course conditions are the biggest equalizer of any difference in distance between us. I think our carry distances are generally similar, but I get more roll.

 

To add to that, you had more of a draw working yesterday, which I think got you some additional ground distance that the higher straighter ball you hit at times doesn't get.

 

I've said this before - I do perceive a difference playing with a V1 vs. V1X model equivalent in any OEM's ball line. To say the V1 is better than the V1 equivalent in any OEM's ball line, or visa versa is splitting hairs. They're all good, and basically equivalent.

 

if you are saying the prov1x/tp5x/z star xv type are better than the prov1/tp5/zstar type, i agree

[FAbb]

No, I'm just saying they're different enough that I at least feel like I can perceive it.

 

The V1X range may be best for you. The V1 range may be better for somebody else.

[FAbb]

Don't do anything to EPP. Any of the courses. Leave them alone. The place prints money today. Spend all of the money on Langston and Rock Creek to make them places more people will want to go to.

 

The only thing they need to do to east potomac (and all courses) is put irrigation in. The geese dig holes in the greens. Invent a way to get rid of geese.

 

I have zero pulse on the EPP golf scene, but if you had to take a WAG, what percentage of the EPP customer base would be in agreement with this, versus a renovate and raise prices proposal?

[SullGolf]

Rock Creek could definitely be a lot better. To get to "decent" though, I think they'd have to tear down a bunch of trees, which the NPS will never let happen. I think there would be big money at Rock Creek by making it a smaller course and putting in a driving range.

 

Ball wise, I think one thing we can all agree on is that their quantity should never be referred to by the term "duzz".

[dcmidnight]

I would say 75-80% of people who regularly play EPP would vote for do next to nothing. I only play there a couple times a year but thats how I would vote.

[GooseHook]

The Snell MTB seems like a great deal at $25/duzz on the 6-packs. I've never played it, but I assume it's just as good as anything in the premium ball range.

 

Between the competition among major OEMs, and all the small direct to consumer offerings, there's really no reason to be paying full price for any golf ball. Even Titleist, the most price protected offering out there, does buy 3 get 1 duzz free in the spring.

 

I wonder what percentage of the EPP customer base gives two $hits about the place changing at all. Would dumping money into a restoration and raising the rates basically be the golf equivalent of gentrification?

 

The MTB Black plays as close to the 2017 Pro V1 as I've seen. Hated the Red but the Black is outstanding. Only thing I don't like about the Snell balls is that they seem a little finnicky with Sharpie marks. I was going to buy a few dozen until I saw the Z-Star prices on Amazon.