2019 OB & Lost Ball Rule

[Sawgrass]

Where in hell do I find the local rule E-5 in the USGA phone app? I’ve been looking under Full Rules for 1/2 hour!

Make sure you’re looking in the Official Guide. The LRs are only there.

 

No, no and no! He is looking for them in the Application of his phone !!!

My app gives me the choice of rulebooks! Yes, yes, yes! Yours doesn’t?

 

No, see my edited post earlier.

 

But if you have these books there, how can he not find the MLR's???

My first choice is to select either the Player’s Edition, Full Rules or Official Guide. If you don’t pick the guide, you can’t get to committtee procedures.

[Mr. Bean]

My first choice is to select either the Player’s Edition, Full Rules or Official Guide. If you don’t pick the guide, you can’t get to committtee procedures.

 

So it is completely different from the R&A App.

 

Why the h**l they could not co-operate with the App as they did with the Books...?

[antip]

The 300 odd character wide reply box remains intact for me, although I have tried the previous suggestions from NSX, Newby and Hale, without success. Any other suggestions out there for returning this to functionality?

 

 

 

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Success! Thank you NSX, that did the trick - I must have previously unknowingly tripped the "toggle editing mode" button.

[antip]

Antip, maybe this will help: http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/forum/21-website-help-news-feedback/

Thanks, wasn't aware of this. But the NSX tip got me back on the rails.

[Augster]

Where in hell do I find the local rule E-5 in the USGA phone app? I’ve been looking under Full Rules for 1/2 hour!

 

Open the app. Click on OFFICIAL GUIDE. Click Committee Procedures. Click 8/Model lock rules. Click 8E. Scroll to E5.

 

It’s in an absolutely ridiculously hard to find spot in the app. Search doesn’t find it either.

 

It’s one of those things you just have to know where it is.

[antip]

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

Sawgrass, would you be kind enough to point out the parts of the LR text that are in line with (and explain) what USGA official has told you? I am particularly interested in that '2 CL on both sides' part.

 

I am not arguing with anything, just trying to reach the level you are now.

Sure, let me give it a go. First, the reference points actual language:

 

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

 

 

So we've got a ball lost in the fairway, let's say the left side. Your BRP is where you thought it plugged. Your FRP is the point nearest the BRP not nearer the hole. We are used to thinking of the FRP being at the edge of the fairway, and it often is, but in this case the point in the fairway closest to the BRP in the fairway is the BRP. So they are the same point. Now we go on to the "size of the relief area." The actual language:

 

Anywhere between:

• A line from the hole through the ball reference point (and within two club-lengths to the outside of that line), and
  
• A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line).
  

The first line above, based on our particular situation, is two CLs further right of the BRP. The second line above, based on our particular situation, is within two CLs to the fairway side of that line -- that is, "the fairway side of that line" was described to me by the USGA representative as being toward the nearest fairway edge, the left edge on our case. So the player ends up with a 4 CL wide relief area surrounding the BRP, and as you go back further this area remains two CLs wide of each side of the line. I guess that further above I shouldn't have said it was cone-shaped, because there the FRP and BRP are the same point, so there is no cone that develops as you get further away from the hole, it's just a constant rectangle.

 

Edit: I initially wrote "left" when I meant to say "right" above, and I corrected it.

Thank you for the legwork and the layout Saw. I will suspend belief that the guidance on what "outside" and "fairway" side mean are unambiguous based simply on what has been published, but I am very happy to go with what you have been told because it provides a formula that can always be applied - simply draw a BOL line through the estimated point where ball is lost in fairway and your DZ is just an "enhanced" BOL relief (2CL instead of the "regular" 1CL on either side of the line). And considering it as a BOL variant simplifies the thinking than trying to apply the complex LR formula.

Yes, this "works" for me too. I should add that the person who answered my question really seemed prepared for it, he was not surprised or initially stumped in any way. But if anyone else has anything to add from a representative of either Ruling Body, I'm all ears.

I'm not surprised they were ready for this, it is 'Ready for Business 101' for any well set up call centre.

On reflection, the original language in the MLR - specifically "outside of that line" and "fairway side of that line" are only intuitively meaningful expressions for a ball that is off the fairway, so the phone ruling you got supplied a working translation for the ball lost in fairway interpretation. I have pencilled in replacement words in my book for the ball lost in fairway version of the LR, "outside of that line" becomes "toward the furthest fairway edge" and "fairway side of that line" becomes "toward the nearest fairway edge".

[nsxguy]

The 300 odd character wide reply box remains intact for me, although I have tried the previous suggestions from NSX, Newby and Hale, without success. Any other suggestions out there for returning this to functionality?

 

 

 

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Success! Thank you NSX, that did the trick - I must have previously unknowingly tripped the "toggle editing mode" button.

 

You're welcome.

 

I knew there was something around the text box that caused it but couldn't remember what it was.

 

:hi:

[95124hacker]

Where in hell do I find the local rule E-5 in the USGA phone app? I’ve been looking under Full Rules for 1/2 hour!

 

Open the app. Click on OFFICIAL GUIDE. Click Committee Procedures. Click 8/Model lock rules. Click 8E. Scroll to E5.

 

It’s in an absolutely ridiculously hard to find spot in the app. Search doesn’t find it either.

 

It’s one of those things you just have to know where it is.

 

Thanks. I found it finally with your help.