2019 OB & Lost Ball Rule

[sui generis]

Our club had a board meeting and I was there to talk about the rules changes. It was decided we won't be using the local rule in 2019. The biggest reason was that it moves the game away from the basic principle of hitting the ball and finding it until the ball is holed.

 

It was also considered it could get complicated for the average Joes when it isn't an option in certain cases and what happens when the ball is lost around the greens. The discussions of where the ball might be lost and the time spent figuring were seen as having a negative impact. The pace of play might also slow down due to people taking more risks by playing longer clubs off the tee, thus leading to longer waits on the tee for the fairway to clear and more searching for wayward shots.

Our club will be using the Local Rule. We should all report back after a few months of play.

We are not using it either, and I'll be interested in learning how things went for you, Dave. My greatest concern in regard to all rules is to keep marginally-interested-in-the-rules players on the straight and narrow, and I feared that this fringe group wouldn't have the patience to actually learn the new LR.

 

I have no such lofty expectations. :)

[Sawgrass]

Our club had a board meeting and I was there to talk about the rules changes. It was decided we won't be using the local rule in 2019. The biggest reason was that it moves the game away from the basic principle of hitting the ball and finding it until the ball is holed.

 

It was also considered it could get complicated for the average Joes when it isn't an option in certain cases and what happens when the ball is lost around the greens. The discussions of where the ball might be lost and the time spent figuring were seen as having a negative impact. The pace of play might also slow down due to people taking more risks by playing longer clubs off the tee, thus leading to longer waits on the tee for the fairway to clear and more searching for wayward shots.

Our club will be using the Local Rule. We should all report back after a few months of play.

We are not using it either, and I'll be interested in learning how things went for you, Dave. My greatest concern in regard to all rules is to keep marginally-interested-in-the-rules players on the straight and narrow, and I feared that this fringe group wouldn't have the patience to actually learn the new LR.

 

I have no such lofty expectations. :)

HaHa!

 

Hey, I said I had concerns, not optimism.

[95124hacker]

May be playing in my club's season opener this weekend. Forecast is rain, and we've already had a wet February. There's a good chance we'll plug a few drives and/or layup shots on par 5's. Last year (same conditions), I lost 2-3 balls in the fairway. Under 2019 rules, if I take the S&D lost ball penalty IN THE FW, do I drop where I think the ball would've reasonably landed or do I go to the nearest FW edge + 2 club lengths?

 

http://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules-hub/rules-modernization/major-changes/golfs-new-rules-stroke-and-distance.html

 

 

Thx but my question was specifically ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY .

Answer seems to be the same as lost outside the FW.

[Sawgrass]

May be playing in my club's season opener this weekend. Forecast is rain, and we've already had a wet February. There's a good chance we'll plug a few drives and/or layup shots on par 5's. Last year (same conditions), I lost 2-3 balls in the fairway. Under 2019 rules, if I take the S&D lost ball penalty IN THE FW, do I drop where I think the ball would've reasonably landed or do I go to the nearest FW edge + 2 club lengths?

 

http://www.usga.org/...d-distance.html

 

 

Thx but my question was specifically ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY .

Answer seems to be the same as lost outside the FW.

While the illustrtion shows the more common situation of a ball being lost in the rough, the wording of the model local rule does not specify that the "ball reference point" must be in the rough. It can, in fact, be in the fairway. Establish where you think the ball was lost due to plugging, then the nearest fairway reference point. Then expand a line drawn from the hole through each of those points and back, and drop within that cone anywhere no closer to the hole in the general area plus two club lengths further to each side. Here are some relevant words:

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• 
  Come to rest on the course, or
  
• 
  Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

[davep043]

May be playing in my club's season opener this weekend. Forecast is rain, and we've already had a wet February. There's a good chance we'll plug a few drives and/or layup shots on par 5's. Last year (same conditions), I lost 2-3 balls in the fairway. Under 2019 rules, if I take the S&D lost ball penalty IN THE FW, do I drop where I think the ball would've reasonably landed or do I go to the nearest FW edge + 2 club lengths?

 

http://www.usga.org/...d-distance.html

 

 

Thx but my question was specifically ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY .

Answer seems to be the same as lost outside the FW.

The way I read the Rule, you still establish two points: A is where the ball is thought to be lost, and B is at the nearest edge of the fairway, equidistant from the hole. You drop in the area essentially between those points (well, between the two lines from the hole through a spot 2 clublengths "outside" each point), and no closer to the hole than A. A big part of your Relief Area will be in the fairway.

[Newby]

Thx but my question was specifically ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY .

Answer seems to be the same as lost outside the FW.

If you can't find it how do you know where it was lost?

But the only requirement is that you have 95% confidence that it hasn't finished in a penalty area.

[Augster]

May be playing in my club's season opener this weekend. Forecast is rain, and we've already had a wet February. There's a good chance we'll plug a few drives and/or layup shots on par 5's. Last year (same conditions), I lost 2-3 balls in the fairway. Under 2019 rules, if I take the S&D lost ball penalty IN THE FW, do I drop where I think the ball would've reasonably landed or do I go to the nearest FW edge + 2 club lengths?

 

http://www.usga.org/...d-distance.html

 

 

Thx but my question was specifically ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY .

Answer seems to be the same as lost outside the FW.

While the illustrtion shows the more common situation of a ball being lost in the rough, the wording of the model local rule does not specify that the "ball reference point" must be in the rough. It can, in fact, be in the fairway. Establish where you think the ball was lost due to plugging, then the nearest fairway reference point. Then expand a line drawn from the hole through each of those points and back, and drop within that cone anywhere no closer to the hole in the general area plus two club lengths further to each side. Here are some relevant words:

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• 
  Come to rest on the course, or
  
• 
  Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, “fairway” means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

 

Uh oh. I disagree. There is no “extra two clublengths” when dropping on the edge of the fairway and the other point is in the fairway. Those two clublengths would take you into the rough and that’s not allowed.

 

“A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line).”

 

The “fairway side of that line” is already included as the lost ball reference point is in the fairway.

 

So....when a ball is lost in the fairway and the local rule is invoked, the player will nearly never have the option of dropping in the rough.

 

Pendantic for sure, but just saying “two CL’s on either side of that point” is not actually correct in all cases.

 

Just another “gotcha” waiting to happen.

[Mr. Bean]

Our club had a board meeting and I was there to talk about the rules changes. It was decided we won't be using the local rule in 2019. The biggest reason was that it moves the game away from the basic principle of hitting the ball and finding it until the ball is holed.

 

It was also considered it could get complicated for the average Joes when it isn't an option in certain cases and what happens when the ball is lost around the greens. The discussions of where the ball might be lost and the time spent figuring were seen as having a negative impact. The pace of play might also slow down due to people taking more risks by playing longer clubs off the tee, thus leading to longer waits on the tee for the fairway to clear and more searching for wayward shots.

Our club will be using the Local Rule. We should all report back after a few months of play.

 

So... what should be reported by those who did NOT use the LR ..? And in general, what should be reported?

 

I don't think you are getting any statistics built over this one so I wonder what and how should be reported.

[Mr. Bean]

May be playing in my club's season opener this weekend. Forecast is rain, and we've already had a wet February. There's a good chance we'll plug a few drives and/or layup shots on par 5's. Last year (same conditions), I lost 2-3 balls in the fairway. Under 2019 rules, if I take the S&D lost ball penalty IN THE FW, do I drop where I think the ball would've reasonably landed or do I go to the nearest FW edge + 2 club lengths?

 

http://www.usga.org/...d-distance.html

 

 

Thx but my question was specifically ball lost IN THE FAIRWAY .

Answer seems to be the same as lost outside the FW.

While the illustrtion shows the more common situation of a ball being lost in the rough, the wording of the model local rule does not specify that the "ball reference point" must be in the rough. It can, in fact, be in the fairway. Establish where you think the ball was lost due to plugging, then the nearest fairway reference point. Then expand a line drawn from the hole through each of those points and back, and drop within that cone anywhere no closer to the hole in the general area plus two club lengths further to each side. Here are some relevant words:

 

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

 

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, "fairway" means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

 

Uh oh. I disagree. There is no "extra two clublengths" when dropping on the edge of the fairway and the other point is in the fairway. Those two clublengths would take you into the rough and that's not allowed.

 

"A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line)."

 

The "fairway side of that line" is already included as the lost ball reference point is in the fairway.

 

So....when a ball is lost in the fairway and the local rule is invoked, the player will nearly never have the option of dropping in the rough.

 

Pendantic for sure, but just saying "two CL's on either side of that point" is not actually correct in all cases.

 

Just another "gotcha" waiting to happen.

 

I guess this conversation is more than enough to prove that this Local Rule should never have been invented.

[Augster]

 

 

I guess this conversation is more than enough to prove that this Local Rule should never have been invented.

 

I agree the rule is an abomination, but it is how the vast majority of “casual golfers in the US” play. They don’t go back to the tee, but they want to say they shot a “real score”.

 

The ruling bodies dropped the ball on this. I’m their effort to simplify, why didn’t they just go with “drop 2CLs where it went out if OB. If lost drop 2CLs where you estimate it’s lost. And an additional option is to drop within 2CL’s of the middle of the fairway. All options 2SP”. Simple. Drop where it went out, where it may be lost, or in the middle of the fairway. None of this drawing lines BS. You’d get a choice of TWO spots and that’s it.

 

Luckily none of this will ever be on TV as the pro tourneys won’t ever have this option.

 

BUT, at the club level, I can see a situation where a guy loses his ball plugged in the fairway and wants to drop in the first cut of rough so his dropped ball sits up higher. Not that big a deal, especially with the attached 2SP, but it’ll be playing from a wrong place and against the rules that I doubt anyone in the group will actually know.

[davep043]

While the illustrtion shows the more common situation of a ball being lost in the rough, the wording of the model local rule does not specify that the "ball reference point" must be in the rough. It can, in fact, be in the fairway. Establish where you think the ball was lost due to plugging, then the nearest fairway reference point. Then expand a line drawn from the hole through each of those points and back, and drop within that cone anywhere no closer to the hole in the general area plus two club lengths further to each side. Here are some relevant words:

 

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

 

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, "fairway" means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

 

Uh oh. I disagree. There is no "extra two clublengths" when dropping on the edge of the fairway and the other point is in the fairway. Those two clublengths would take you into the rough and that's not allowed.

 

"A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line)."

 

The "fairway side of that line" is already included as the lost ball reference point is in the fairway.

 

So....when a ball is lost in the fairway and the local rule is invoked, the player will nearly never have the option of dropping in the rough.

 

Pendantic for sure, but just saying "two CL's on either side of that point" is not actually correct in all cases.

 

Just another "gotcha" waiting to happen.

 

I guess this conversation is more than enough to prove that this Local Rule should never have been invented.

I'd suggest that this conversation may indicate that the Ruling Bodies may not have considered the potential for a ball to be lost in the fairway. For better or worse, it IS on the books, and will be adopted at many golf courses. I agree that the wording is clear, the relief area is limited to 2 clublengths on the fairway side of the line from the hole through the Fairway Reference Point.

[Augster]

While the illustrtion shows the more common situation of a ball being lost in the rough, the wording of the model local rule does not specify that the "ball reference point" must be in the rough. It can, in fact, be in the fairway. Establish where you think the ball was lost due to plugging, then the nearest fairway reference point. Then expand a line drawn from the hole through each of those points and back, and drop within that cone anywhere no closer to the hole in the general area plus two club lengths further to each side. Here are some relevant words:

 

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

 

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, "fairway" means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

 

Uh oh. I disagree. There is no "extra two clublengths" when dropping on the edge of the fairway and the other point is in the fairway. Those two clublengths would take you into the rough and that's not allowed.

 

"A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line)."

 

The "fairway side of that line" is already included as the lost ball reference point is in the fairway.

 

So....when a ball is lost in the fairway and the local rule is invoked, the player will nearly never have the option of dropping in the rough.

 

Pendantic for sure, but just saying "two CL's on either side of that point" is not actually correct in all cases.

 

Just another "gotcha" waiting to happen.

 

I guess this conversation is more than enough to prove that this Local Rule should never have been invented.

I'd suggest that this conversation may indicate that the Ruling Bodies may not have considered the potential for a ball to be lost in the fairway. For better or worse, it IS on the books, and will be adopted at many golf courses. I agree that the wording is clear, the relief area is limited to 2 clublengths on the fairway side of the line from the hole through the Fairway Reference Point.

 

I agree the wording is clear. 2CLs on the fairway side.

 

The common use is becoming “within 2CLs of the FRP”. Which isn’t correct.

[Sawgrass]

While the illustrtion shows the more common situation of a ball being lost in the rough, the wording of the model local rule does not specify that the "ball reference point" must be in the rough. It can, in fact, be in the fairway. Establish where you think the ball was lost due to plugging, then the nearest fairway reference point. Then expand a line drawn from the hole through each of those points and back, and drop within that cone anywhere no closer to the hole in the general area plus two club lengths further to each side. Here are some relevant words:

 

Two Estimated Reference Points:

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

 

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

For purposes of this Local Rule, "fairway" means any area of grass in the general area that is cut to fairway height or less.

 

Uh oh. I disagree. There is no "extra two clublengths" when dropping on the edge of the fairway and the other point is in the fairway. Those two clublengths would take you into the rough and that's not allowed.

 

"A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line)."

 

The "fairway side of that line" is already included as the lost ball reference point is in the fairway.

 

So....when a ball is lost in the fairway and the local rule is invoked, the player will nearly never have the option of dropping in the rough.

 

Pendantic for sure, but just saying "two CL's on either side of that point" is not actually correct in all cases.

 

Just another "gotcha" waiting to happen.

 

I guess this conversation is more than enough to prove that this Local Rule should never have been invented.

I'd suggest that this conversation may indicate that the Ruling Bodies may not have considered the potential for a ball to be lost in the fairway. For better or worse, it IS on the books, and will be adopted at many golf courses. I agree that the wording is clear, the relief area is limited to 2 clublengths on the fairway side of the line from the hole through the Fairway Reference Point.

 

I agree the wording is clear. 2CLs on the fairway side.

 

The common use is becoming “within 2CLs of the FRP”. Which isn’t correct.

In all illustrations the two club lengths show an expansion of the relief area, not a contraction of it. While you make a valid point about what I see as confusion in the the wording, IMO this is not how the rule is intended to be applied. In fact, if one followed this as you describe you could end up in some situations with a relief area only an inch wide at the point nearest the hole. I would expect a Clarification.

[antip]

In all illustrations the two club lengths show an expansion of the relief area, not a contraction of it. While you make a valid point about what I see as confusion in the the wording, IMO this is not how the rule is intended to be applied. In fact, if one followed this as you describe you could end up in some situations with a relief area only an inch wide at the point nearest the hole. I would expect a Clarification.

That is because all the diagrams are for ball lost off the fairway. But when you apply the rule's words to a ball lost in the fairway, this changes. The 2CL from the fairway reference point unambiguously goes into the fairway. The 2CL from the ball reference point goes towards the furthest fairway edge. So if the ball is lost in left half of the fairway, both of the 2CL measurements will go to the right. If the ball reference point is in the exact middle of the fairway, take your pick for that one.

 

And for a ball reference point that is one inch from the edge of the fairway, then the 'cone' is a very small place indeed.

 

Now for something different: my reply box has morphed into being hundreds of characters wide - so I can only see a very small part of the text above where I am typing. Can anyone tell me how to fix that?

[Newby]

Try maximising and middlemising the window and then changing the size of the window.

[Halebopp]

You should also have the "Drag to resize" button at the bottom right corner of the text box into which you write your replies to.

[nsxguy]

In all illustrations the two club lengths show an expansion of the relief area, not a contraction of it. While you make a valid point about what I see as confusion in the the wording, IMO this is not how the rule is intended to be applied. In fact, if one followed this as you describe you could end up in some situations with a relief area only an inch wide at the point nearest the hole. I would expect a Clarification.

That is because all the diagrams are for ball lost off the fairway. But when you apply the rule's words to a ball lost in the fairway, this changes. The 2CL from the fairway reference point unambiguously goes into the fairway. The 2CL from the ball reference point goes towards the furthest fairway edge. So if the ball is lost in left half of the fairway, both of the 2CL measurements will go to the right. If the ball reference point is in the exact middle of the fairway, take your pick for that one.

 

And for a ball reference point that is one inch from the edge of the fairway, then the 'cone' is a very small place indeed.

 

Now for something different: my reply box has morphed into being hundreds of characters wide - so I can only see a very small part of the text above where I am typing. Can anyone tell me how to fix that?

 

I think this was an oversight by the rules makers, just as in the case of dropping on the green side of a yellow hazard.

 

That said it's probably a moot point as I can't really believe someone would choose to drop the ball in the rough anyway. That said, I suppose, under some unusual circumstances the rough might provide a better lie than a very tight fairway.

 

 

As for your text box, highlight and then "cut" all the text, refresh the page and try again. I've seen this in the past but really don't recall the cause or exactly what I did to fix it.

[Sawgrass]

In all illustrations the two club lengths show an expansion of the relief area, not a contraction of it. While you make a valid point about what I see as confusion in the the wording, IMO this is not how the rule is intended to be applied. In fact, if one followed this as you describe you could end up in some situations with a relief area only an inch wide at the point nearest the hole. I would expect a Clarification.

That is because all the diagrams are for ball lost off the fairway. But when you apply the rule's words to a ball lost in the fairway, this changes. The 2CL from the fairway reference point unambiguously goes into the fairway. The 2CL from the ball reference point goes towards the furthest fairway edge. So if the ball is lost in left half of the fairway, both of the 2CL measurements will go to the right. If the ball reference point is in the exact middle of the fairway, take your pick for that one.

 

And for a ball reference point that is one inch from the edge of the fairway, then the 'cone' is a very small place indeed.

 

 

As I noted, I do understand what the rule says, I just dispute what it means. In any case, I just got off the phone with the USGA to pursue this given the conflict between what I assume they really mean and what they actually wrote in E-5.

 

Peculiarly, we are all wrong. Here is what I was instructed:

 

Ball lost due to being plugged in the fairway, let's say a club length to the right of the left fairway edge. In this case, the ball reference point (where the ball is assumed to be lost) is a club length to the right of the edge of the fairway, and the fairway reference point is that exact same place (I'll remind us that it says: "The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point").

 

With the ball RP and the fairway RP being on the same line back from the hole, you get a cone defined by two club lengths either side of that initial line in which to drop.

 

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

Edit: I shouldn't have said "cone" in the second to last sentence above, since there is just one applicable line, there are actually two parallel lines formed surrounding that line which don't spread.

[DaveLeeNC]

I encountered this rule on the course for the first time yesterday. Drive was in light rough (if you were to hit a provisional for this kind of drive, you are going to hit a ton of provisionals across 18 holes and 4 golfers). I assume the ball was plugged but for whatever reason was a lost ball. It was really nice to be able to play out the hole without going back to the tee and still generate a real golf score.

 

dave

[Halebopp]

As I noted, I do understand what the rule says, I just dispute what it means. In any case, I just got off the phone with the USGA to pursue this given the conflict between what I assume they really mean and what they actually wrote in E-5.

 

Peculiarly, we are all wrong. Here is what I was instructed:

 

Ball lost due to being plugged in the fairway, let's say a club length to the right of the left fairway edge. In this case, the ball reference point (where the ball is assumed to be lost) is a club length to the right of the edge of the fairway, and the fairway reference point is that exact same place (I'll remind us that it says: "The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point").

 

With the ball RP and the fairway RP being on the same line back from the hole, you get a cone defined by two club lengths either side of that initial line in which to drop.

 

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

I thought we had discussed this issue way back but it was just me wondering about a similar case, in which case where there is no FRP. Would the BRP be enough to define a relief area in such situations? If so, would you get two club-lengths to both sides of that line or just the other? Based on their reply to Sawgrass, my wild guess is, BRP is enough and you get two club lengths on both sides.

[Sawgrass]

As I noted, I do understand what the rule says, I just dispute what it means. In any case, I just got off the phone with the USGA to pursue this given the conflict between what I assume they really mean and what they actually wrote in E-5.

 

Peculiarly, we are all wrong. Here is what I was instructed:

 

Ball lost due to being plugged in the fairway, let's say a club length to the right of the left fairway edge. In this case, the ball reference point (where the ball is assumed to be lost) is a club length to the right of the edge of the fairway, and the fairway reference point is that exact same place (I'll remind us that it says: "The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point").

 

With the ball RP and the fairway RP being on the same line back from the hole, you get a cone defined by two club lengths either side of that initial line in which to drop.

 

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

I thought we had discussed this issue way back but it was just me wondering about a similar case, in which case where there is no FRP. Would the BRP be enough to define a relief area in such situations? If so, would you get two club-lengths to both sides of that line or just the other? Based on their reply to Sawgrass, my wild guess is, BRP is enough and you get two club lengths on both sides.

I don't think you're right on this, Hale. When your ball is lost in the fairway, there are in fact two reference points, they just happen to be the same point. When your ball is lost in the rough, you need to find a fairway reference point. The third illustration provided in the Guide shows that. And further, the description of fairway reference point in the wording, when the ball is lost short of the fairway, demands you find something else cut to fairway height or less such as a path.

[davep043]

As I noted, I do understand what the rule says, I just dispute what it means. In any case, I just got off the phone with the USGA to pursue this given the conflict between what I assume they really mean and what they actually wrote in E-5.

 

Peculiarly, we are all wrong. Here is what I was instructed:

 

Ball lost due to being plugged in the fairway, let's say a club length to the right of the left fairway edge. In this case, the ball reference point (where the ball is assumed to be lost) is a club length to the right of the edge of the fairway, and the fairway reference point is that exact same place (I'll remind us that it says: "The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point").

 

With the ball RP and the fairway RP being on the same line back from the hole, you get a cone defined by two club lengths either side of that initial line in which to drop.

 

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

I thought we had discussed this issue way back but it was just me wondering about a similar case, in which case where there is no FRP. Would the BRP be enough to define a relief area in such situations? If so, would you get two club-lengths to both sides of that line or just the other? Based on their reply to Sawgrass, my wild guess is, BRP is enough and you get two club lengths on both sides.

If that was their intention, I don't think they would have included this:

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

Way back in Post 278 I included an illustration that, in my mind, follows the rule as it is written. I think to restrict the Relief Area in the case where there isn't a fairway at the same distance from the hole as the BRP would be wildly inconsistent with the potentially very large relief area available if there IS fairway at that distance. Significantly restricting the Relief Area for a ball lost in the fairway doesn't pose the same level of "hardship."

[Mr. Bean]

As I noted, I do understand what the rule says, I just dispute what it means. In any case, I just got off the phone with the USGA to pursue this given the conflict between what I assume they really mean and what they actually wrote in E-5.

 

Peculiarly, we are all wrong. Here is what I was instructed:

 

Ball lost due to being plugged in the fairway, let's say a club length to the right of the left fairway edge. In this case, the ball reference point (where the ball is assumed to be lost) is a club length to the right of the edge of the fairway, and the fairway reference point is that exact same place (I'll remind us that it says: "The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point").

 

With the ball RP and the fairway RP being on the same line back from the hole, you get a cone defined by two club lengths either side of that initial line in which to drop.

 

 

I thought in this case the ball RP is the same point as the fairway RP.

[Mr. Bean]

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

Sawgrass, would you be kind enough to point out the parts of the LR text that are in line with (and explain) what USGA official has told you? I am particularly interested in that '2 CL on both sides' part.

 

I am not arguing with anything, just trying to reach the level you are now.

[Sawgrass]

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

Sawgrass, would you be kind enough to point out the parts of the LR text that are in line with (and explain) what USGA official has told you? I am particularly interested in that '2 CL on both sides' part.

 

I am not arguing with anything, just trying to reach the level you are now.

Sure, let me give it a go. First, the reference points actual language:

 

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

 

 

So we've got a ball lost in the fairway, let's say the left side. Your BRP is where you thought it plugged. Your FRP is the point nearest the BRP not nearer the hole. We are used to thinking of the FRP being at the edge of the fairway, and it often is, but in this case the point in the fairway closest to the BRP in the fairway is the BRP. So they are the same point. Now we go on to the "size of the relief area." The actual language:

 

Anywhere between:

• A line from the hole through the ball reference point (and within two club-lengths to the outside of that line), and
  
• A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line).
  

The first line above, based on our particular situation, is two CLs further right of the BRP. The second line above, based on our particular situation, is within two CLs to the fairway side of that line -- that is, "the fairway side of that line" was described to me by the USGA representative as being toward the nearest fairway edge, the left edge on our case. So the player ends up with a 4 CL wide relief area surrounding the BRP, and as you go back further this area remains two CLs wide of each side of the line. I guess that further above I shouldn't have said it was cone-shaped, because there the FRP and BRP are the same point, so there is no cone that develops as you get further away from the hole, it's just a constant rectangle.

 

Edit: I initially wrote "left" when I meant to say "right" above, and I corrected it.

[Halebopp]

If that was their intention, I don't think they would have included this:

If a ball is estimated to be lost on the course or last crossed the edge of the course boundary short of the fairway, the fairway reference point may be a grass path or a teeing ground for the hole being played cut to fairway height or less.

Way back in Post 278 I included an illustration that, in my mind, follows the rule as it is written. I think to restrict the Relief Area in the case where there isn't a fairway at the same distance from the hole as the BRP would be wildly inconsistent with the potentially very large relief area available if there IS fairway at that distance. Significantly restricting the Relief Area for a ball lost in the fairway doesn't pose the same level of "hardship."

 

In my mind having no relief area would be further away from the larger relief area than the narrow one.

 

It is very likely you and Sawgrass are correct but I can't see a definite requirement for the FRP in the model local rule. It does strongly suggest there would be need for one though. But like before, I don't feel like digging further into the subject, just hoping I'll never have to deal with it. :D

[DaveLeeNC]

I encountered this rule on the course for the first time yesterday. Drive was in light rough (if you were to hit a provisional for this kind of drive, you are going to hit a ton of provisionals across 18 holes and 4 golfers). I assume the ball was plugged but for whatever reason was a lost ball. It was really nice to be able to play out the hole without going back to the tee and still generate a real golf score.

 

dave

 

Now that I think about it, I ran into this twice yesterday. A playing partner hit a ball toward OB and we started down the discussion of 'should I hit a provisional' when we realized that we didn't need to do that any more. Pretty nice, IMHO.

 

dave

[Sawgrass]

I encountered this rule on the course for the first time yesterday. Drive was in light rough (if you were to hit a provisional for this kind of drive, you are going to hit a ton of provisionals across 18 holes and 4 golfers). I assume the ball was plugged but for whatever reason was a lost ball. It was really nice to be able to play out the hole without going back to the tee and still generate a real golf score.

 

dave

 

Now that I think about it, I ran into this twice yesterday. A playing partner hit a ball toward OB and we started down the discussion of 'should I hit a provisional' when we realized that we didn't need to do that any more. Pretty nice, IMHO.

 

dave

Dave, how do you/would you feel about this LR if you were playing in a club competition. At my muni, where I play in Men's Club events every week, my club is not implementing the LR for events, though I understand that the course itself will do that. So I'll have an opportunity to experience the LR during casual rounds if need be. But I'm still pretty sure I wouldn't want it in one of our stroke play events.

[Roadking2003]

I encountered this rule on the course for the first time yesterday. Drive was in light rough (if you were to hit a provisional for this kind of drive, you are going to hit a ton of provisionals across 18 holes and 4 golfers). I assume the ball was plugged but for whatever reason was a lost ball. It was really nice to be able to play out the hole without going back to the tee and still generate a real golf score.

 

dave

 

Now that I think about it, I ran into this twice yesterday. A playing partner hit a ball toward OB and we started down the discussion of 'should I hit a provisional' when we realized that we didn't need to do that any more. Pretty nice, IMHO.

 

dave

 

I agree. Nice and it will speed up play.

[Mr. Bean]

I was surprised to see that I, that all of us, missed this careful reading of the MLR, but now that I parse it out, it's all there. Thank you, USGA!

 

Sawgrass, would you be kind enough to point out the parts of the LR text that are in line with (and explain) what USGA official has told you? I am particularly interested in that '2 CL on both sides' part.

 

I am not arguing with anything, just trying to reach the level you are now.

Sure, let me give it a go. First, the reference points actual language:

 

a. Ball Reference Point: The point where the original ball is estimated to have:

• Come to rest on the course, or
  
• Last crossed the edge of the course boundary to go out of bounds.
  

b. Fairway Reference Point: The point of fairway of the hole being played that is nearest to the ball reference point, but is not nearer the hole than the ball reference point.

 

 

So we've got a ball lost in the fairway, let's say the left side. Your BRP is where you thought it plugged. Your FRP is the point nearest the BRP not nearer the hole. We are used to thinking of the FRP being at the edge of the fairway, and it often is, but in this case the point in the fairway closest to the BRP in the fairway is the BRP. So they are the same point. Now we go on to the "size of the relief area." The actual language:

 

Anywhere between:

• A line from the hole through the ball reference point (and within two club-lengths to the outside of that line), and
  
• A line from the hole through the fairway reference point (and within two club-lengths to the fairway side of that line).
  

The first line above, based on our particular situation, is two CLs further right of the BRP. The second line above, based on our particular situation, is within two CLs to the fairway side of that line -- that is, "the fairway side of that line" was described to me by the USGA representative as being toward the nearest fairway edge, the left edge on our case. So the player ends up with a 4 CL wide relief area surrounding the BRP, and as you go back further this area remains two CLs wide of each side of the line. I guess that further above I shouldn't have said it was cone-shaped, because there the FRP and BRP are the same point, so there is no cone that develops as you get further away from the hole, it's just a constant rectangle.

 

Edit: I initially wrote "left" when I meant to say "right" above, and I corrected it.

 

Ok, now we are in agreement with those corrections you made.

 

Thank you.