How to putt it pure end over end?

[tgoodspe1991]

The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

 

 

How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

 

Tips?!

[gioguy21]

> @tgoodspe1991 said:

> The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

>

>

>

> How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

>

> Tips?!

 

ok -- there's a few things in play here.

 

1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

[Krt22]

1)Practice straight 6 footers, looking at nothing but the roll. I do this indoors on a putting mat (Thanks to Obee for this one)

2)Get fit. Proper length, lie, toe hang, loft

[fishstix94]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @tgoodspe1991 said:

> > The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

> >

> >

> >

> > How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

> >

> > Tips?!

>

> ok -- there's a few things in play here.

>

> 1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

> 2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

> 3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

 

They really only play with 1-2 degrees of loft? I had never heard that.

[iteachgolf]

> @fishstix94 said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @tgoodspe1991 said:

> > > The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

> > >

> > > Tips?!

> >

> > ok -- there's a few things in play here.

> >

> > 1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

> > 2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

> > 3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

>

> They really only play with 1-2 degrees of loft? I had never heard that.

 

In my experience, no it is not true

[gioguy21]

> @gioguy21 s> @iteachgolf said:

> > @fishstix94 said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @tgoodspe1991 said:

> > > > The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

> > > >

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

> > > >

> > > > Tips?!

> > >

> > > ok -- there's a few things in play here.

> > >

> > > 1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

> > > 2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

> > > 3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

> >

> > They really only play with 1-2 degrees of loft? I had never heard that.

>

> In my experience, no it is not true

 

depends on the player. i've it on good accord that numerous do. not arguing with you but, the OP asked -- and i gave the response that i know and was honest with.

[iteachgolf]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @gioguy21 s> @iteachgolf said:

> > > @fishstix94 said:

> > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > @tgoodspe1991 said:

> > > > > The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

> > > > >

> > > > > Tips?!

> > > >

> > > > ok -- there's a few things in play here.

> > > >

> > > > 1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

> > > > 2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

> > > > 3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

> > >

> > > They really only play with 1-2 degrees of loft? I had never heard that.

> >

> > In my experience, no it is not true

>

> depends on the player. i've it on good accord that numerous do. not arguing with you but, the OP asked -- and i gave the response that i know and was honest with.

 

I know of some who do but I’d call low of loft more rare than saying anything above 2* is rare on tour

[gioguy21]

> @iteachgolf said:

> > @gioguy21 said:

> > > @gioguy21 s> @iteachgolf said:

> > > > @fishstix94 said:

> > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > @tgoodspe1991 said:

> > > > > > The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Tips?!

> > > > >

> > > > > ok -- there's a few things in play here.

> > > > >

> > > > > 1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

> > > > > 2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

> > > > > 3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

> > > >

> > > > They really only play with 1-2 degrees of loft? I had never heard that.

> > >

> > > In my experience, no it is not true

> >

> > depends on the player. i've it on good accord that numerous do. not arguing with you but, the OP asked -- and i gave the response that i know and was honest with.

>

> I know of some who do but I’d call low of loft more rare than saying anything above 2* is rare on tour

 

again, not a p***ing contest - was using it as a point and how one MIGHT get it rolling end over end better.

[tgoodspe1991]

I read that Furyk uses 1* of loft because he plays the ball more forward than normal.

 

I agree with @gioguy21 in that the greens the Pro's play on is a huge factor in how smooth their putts roll. I've been watching a lot of videos of Pro's putting, slow mo and highlights, and notice when their putter makes contact with the ball their putter head is off the ground by like a good 1/2" or more. So their definitely striking the ball higher up and on an ascending blow.

 

I try to get the ascending blow but I know my putter head is much lower. I'm probably striking the ball below it's COG causing it to bounce up and offline more...

[tgoodspe1991]

Maybe I should try a shorter putter. Typically I go with 35" or longer, but perhaps a shorter putter will actually help me get the head higher off the ground at impact and contact the ball more in line with its COG or higher...

[iteachgolf]

> @gioguy21 said:

> > @iteachgolf said:

> > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > @gioguy21 s> @iteachgolf said:

> > > > > @fishstix94 said:

> > > > > > @gioguy21 said:

> > > > > > > @tgoodspe1991 said:

> > > > > > > The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Tips?!

> > > > > >

> > > > > > ok -- there's a few things in play here.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 1) the greens they play on are felt length short...meaning, the depression of the ball on the green is marginal at best (very firm base and short cut) -- it allows the ball to sit on the 'top' of the surface.

> > > > > > 2) pros on faster greens rarely have more than 1-2* of loft on their putter where most putters OTR have upwards of 3-5* of loft (this is b/c on slower greens the loft actually helps to get the ball out of the depression of the ball on the green)

> > > > > > 3) they hit the above the equator of the golf ball with a slightly ascending strike; with a square clubface

> > > > >

> > > > > They really only play with 1-2 degrees of loft? I had never heard that.

> > > >

> > > > In my experience, no it is not true

> > >

> > > depends on the player. i've it on good accord that numerous do. not arguing with you but, the OP asked -- and i gave the response that i know and was honest with.

> >

> > I know of some who do but I’d call low of loft more rare than saying anything above 2* is rare on tour

>

> again, not a p***ing contest - was using it as a point and how one MIGHT get it rolling end over end better.

 

I think you don’t get my intent. I’m just trying to get accurate info out there to help people.

 

The only real answer is to get a putter lesson and fitting and find out what you as an individual need to do. Changing loft will change your aim. Not a good idea to just start bending a putters loft without testing and measuring all other variables

[bargolf]

I don't think getting the line to roll end over end is as much a function of loft as it is face and path.

Path becomes a factor depending on insert for face texture. The longer the ball is on the face the more influence the path direction will have on how the ball launches. For example, Tiger could not get the ball to roll end over end with the Nike Method grooves, so they made an adjustment to the face.

[Krt22]

Loft impacts startline/aim so it is important. I used to struggle quite a bit with a putting a good roll on the ball, turns out I was always using a face balanced putter when I have a natural arc to my stroke so I was always compensating during the stroke. Somehow my putter was bent to 0* as well which was not ideal even though I was hitting it on the up stroke. Did the samlab fitting, they handed me 2 different putters that fit the bill, drained 7 straight 10 footers with both. I can put a very nice roll on the ball now, even on furry muni greens.

 

I do agree face insert matters, I can roll my scotty (1.5 Squareback), method 001, and odyssey 7S putters fine. For some reason I absolutely cannot roll the spider with the pure roll insert.

[bargolf]

If the basis of the conversation is how the line on the ball rolls end over end, then the influence of loft and aim is secondary at best. I don't have to aim well to get the line on the ball to roll end over end. Loft has relatively little impact on how the line starts. If the face is square to the line it can start end over end at any loft angle at impact.

Face angle compared to where the line is pointed has the most influence, path compared to face angle would be next. Green conditions third as the other two happen before the green can influence the roll. Finally end over end has very little to do with making a putt. I would suggest that loft has more influence on ball speed than it does on direction.

[Krt22]

I don't think you can mutually differentiate them like that and I am also not sure that is all true. Start line and loft matter since ultimately you still want to hole the putt. If your start line/aim is off due to the wrong loft, you miss right, think oh I pushed that one, need to close the face on the next one, which then start to impact your path/face arrangement. Loft does matter, how the ball comes out of its own depression (ie jams into the ground or pops up too much) will also likely impact roll.

 

I would also argue the ball rolling end over end has a ton to do with making putts. The first is speed control, if you are reliably rolling it end over end learning speed control is much easier. The second is direction/start line. If you can reliably roll it, you know your stroke is good and thus can trust your start lines. Assuming you have the read right, putting is all about the proper speed and direction

 

[dlygrisse]

a pure strike and a good swing path have something to do with it I am sure. Not sure about the ascending angle of attack, I don't believe the optimal way to hit a putt is by trying to hit up on it, if you over do it it seems you would cause the ball to bounce.

[iteachgolf]

> @dlygrisse said:

> a pure strike and a good swing path have something to do with it I am sure. Not sure about the ascending angle of attack, I don't believe the optimal way to hit a putt is by trying to hit up on it, if you over do it it seems you would cause the ball to bounce.

 

Hitting too down or not enough loft are way more likely to make the ball bounce. 99% of great putters hit up on it

[Krt22]

From samlab.

 

Ball spin

The difference between dynamic loft applied to the ball and angle of attack (Rise)

determines ball spin. If rise angle of the putter through impact (3-4 °) is higher than the

dynamic loft at impact (2°) then the ball will immediately start launching with some

amount of topspin. If the rise angle is less than the dynamic loft then the ball will start

with some backspin.

 

The ball rolling end over end is essentially "top spin". If the ball starts with too much back spin it will skid in before it starts rolling so speed control will suffer. So ideally you do want to hit up on it slightly to get it out of it's own depression with imparting back spin on it.

[JungleJimbo]

On 5/3/2019 at 12:27 AM, tgoodspe1991 said:

The best example of this is Xander Schauffele. All day, every day, no matter what putter this guy uses, he gets the line rolling nearly perfectly end over end every time.

 

 

 

How does he do this? I'm not a terrible putter, but no great. I've tried putting with the line on the ball and always seem to get it rolling offline slightly. The ball goes in the direction I want, but I can't get it consistently rolling in a perfect line like Xander can every time....

 

Tips?!

 

 

[KevCannon]

Like Gio said, there are a handful of things needed for that, and the point about the greens they play on is important to remember. Firm green with hardly any imperfections and very tightly mown grass = almost like a putting mat. Most greens we play at our various local courses will be basically the opposite. Slower and bumpier, longer length of grass, many many more imperfections (a lot of these are caused by other golfers), etc. But all pros have consistent, repeatable, putting strokes and starting your ball on the intended line is 1 of the only things we can control when putting (obvi speed and aim too). If you practice at home, that is what should be practiced. Make sure you are set up the same way, same distance from ball, eye-line, stance, then build a reliable and repeatable stroke. That’s it.

[sfleming]

8 hours ago, KevCannon said:

Make sure you are set up the same way, same distance from ball, eye-line, stance, then build a reliable and repeatable stroke. That’s it.

This is so good, thanks for calling it out. One thing that improved my putting a lot over the last offseason was consistent eye-line and distance from the ball. and not swaying during the putt. Needed a mirror aid on the ground to get there. I still have a lot of other things that creep in that cause me to not have a consistent putting stroke such as where my right elbow is at and having my wrist break down if I'm getting sloppy. Once I started using that mirror I was really surprised to see how much I leaned forward during the stroke. 

[KevCannon]

14 hours ago, sfleming said:

This is so good, thanks for calling it out. One thing that improved my putting a lot over the last offseason was consistent eye-line and distance from the ball. and not swaying during the putt. Needed a mirror aid on the ground to get there. I still have a lot of other things that creep in that cause me to not have a consistent putting stroke such as where my right elbow is at and having my wrist break down if I'm getting sloppy. Once I started using that mirror I was really surprised to see how much I leaned forward during the stroke. 

Absolutely. Control what is controllable, easier said than done in most cases of course. I have been using a putting mirror for probably 3-4 years now, but when i combined it at home with the compact version of the perfect putt mat(or whatever it’s called) that’s when i was able to really ingrain the feeling of a good set up. I leave the eye line mirror set up on the mat around the 7’ mark and use it almost everyday, even if i just roll 10 putts, just to make sure I’m not straying from my baseline.

[joemcsorleypreswickGC]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsMd5iKPqhE/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

this was a major eye opener for me, i have really struggled to roll the ball end over end. 

 

end over end doesn't necessarily mean its on line.