Courses like Southern Dunes

[DrSchteeve]

I completely understand, and agree with, the idea that golf courses should fit the land, but let's face it, there are many courses laid out on pretty uninspiring, relatively flat areas (Talking Stick). Even then, I recognize there can be subtleties even in essentially flat land that can be used by the architect. That said, Southern Dunes (my favorite course on the planet) seems to be laid out on what was and is fairly flat land. I know there are a few members here that were around when it was built, so maybe you can speak to that, and maybe there were some inherently good characteristics to the land that guided the design. It just seems like an awfully good design on a pedestrian piece of land, which begs the question as to why that doesn't happen more often...

[Socrates]

I like Southern Dunes as well. It comes down to the architects vision and truckloads of money. I'm sure the sandy soil made working the land fairly easy.

[sabram]

I don't think the course is so good because of any "inherently good characteristics of the land". I think it is so good because they moved a lot of dirt, created an excellent strategic design, excellent bunkering and they maintain the course firm and fast (at least the several times I have played it.). There's a lot of width off the tee, there are a lot of options on approach shots and the greens are quite good.

 

Here's a link to photos from several rounds over a period of years:

 

[vallygolf]

+1 to what Sabram said.

 

You are correct that SD was a flat pancake before golf. Grayhawk is anothe example of a really good course being built out of nothing reallly (Most desert golf is, hence the hit and miss). I think the core issue is creating a course that looks as if it blends with its surroundings while maintaining strategy off the tee even if the fairways are generous, and danger (hazards) and greens that are interesting enough to keep a golfer engaged while maintaining a firm playing surface. Dinousaur Mountain and Quintero are a couple of examples of courses that had extremely interesting land but missed a bit on the design side. Every time I play southern dunes I am reminded how good it really is. I share DrSchteeves admiration. Not many places on the planet I would rather play.

[Socrates]

You don't see it as much in Scottsdale/Phoenix, but in the Palm Springs area a lot of courses are carved out of flat nothing. You might not notice it unless you look for it, but most start with a flat piece of land and they have dug down 15-20 feet and carved out courses that have a fair amount of relief in them that didn't exist before. Southern Dunes is like that - where they made something special out of nothing.

[Sun Devil]

I just wish SD was closer to Scottsdale.

[Sun Devil]

I just wish SD was closer to Scottsdale.

[El_Nino_AZ]

> @"Sun Devil" said:

> I just wish SD was closer to Scottsdale.

Prices would be double. It's worth the trek down there.

[SilverBullets]

If it were in Scottsdale, theres a good chance it would be widely regarded as the best public course in the valley... and the price would be indicative of that.

 

It's such a great layout.

[golfandfishing]

SD had an enormous amount of money behind it when it was built as Royal Dunes. No “Dunes” existed on the land prior and all of the now natural looking features were manufactured, excellently I might add. It was meant to be a super exclusive club, was men’s only when opened and it just never got anything near a secure foothold. Ownership changed several times and the result is that the tribe got a world class design for minimal investment and we are blessed with a terrific course that we can play at a relatively reasonable rate.

 

The only “inherently good” characteristics of the land that I can think of are: it was cheap, and it may be “rich” in nutrients somehow as the area had been farmland since about the Stone Age.