Country Club Questions

[david.c.w]

> @DonatelloNobodie said:

> I have to differ with those that say that private clubs do not negotiate fees. I've been on the email list for several local private clubs since exploring membership a few years back. On at least 4 occasions, I've received email from clubs offering significant reductions in the initiation fee. Many clubs are in tough financial and membership situations these days. From time to time, reductions are used to entice new members. That leads to the question - Do you want to invest in joining a club that's struggling?

 

This for sure happens, but I would say it is a bit different. In this case the BOG or corporate management likely reduced fees for all new prospective members, not just one person. And your point on investing in a struggling club is spot on, and goes back to OP's original questions. If the initiation/dues have been reduced several times over the last few years, what is the risk of your investment? A different answer for everyone, but needs to be considered.

[lakecowboy]

> @DonatelloNobodie said:

> I have to differ with those that say that private clubs do not negotiate fees. I've been on the email list for several local private clubs since exploring membership a few years back. On at least 4 occasions, I've received email from clubs offering significant reductions in the initiation fee. Many clubs are in tough financial and membership situations these days. From time to time, reductions are used to entice new members. That leads to the question - Do you want to invest in joining a club that's struggling?

 

You should ask if you can pay the full initiation fee instead of the promotional fee they email you. Don't be "low class". :D

[lakecowboy]

> @"david.c.w" said:

> > @lakecowboy said:

>

> >

> > So when you write a check for over $10k it’s bush league to ask, can I get a couple pull overs too?

> >

> > ???????

> >

>

> I am trying to be civil here, but to put it simply, "Absolutely".

>

> For anyone reading this thread and considering joining a country club, Don't. Do. This. Price is for sure a factor when looking around, but joining a club is done as a lifestyle choice with discretionary income. If anything club membership is the opposite of "day to day business". Financially speaking, joining is almost always a terrible decision. What you get for your investment is a wonderful course, easy access, great friends, a second home, a place to play tennis, probably a nice gym, a good restaurant, a business network, and a million other things. If the financials are your #1 priority a country club is probably not you best option.

>

>

 

Calling someone "low class" out of the gate is incredibly civil of you. I laughed so hard I changed my avatar pic.

[68bronco]

On the subject of reduced initiation fees, most upstanding Private Clubs approve any reductions to their initiation fees through the BOD first. And these reduced offerings generally happen once every couple of years depending on the number of members lost through natural attrition; death, relocation, financial hardship, etc.

 

I wasn’t aware that clubs randomly pull out “special deals” for hand selected individuals. Hmmmmm...

[GolfSRQ]

> @lakecowboy said:

> > @"david.c.w" said:

> > > @lakecowboy said:

> >

> > >

> > > So when you write a check for over $10k it’s bush league to ask, can I get a couple pull overs too?

> > >

> > > ???????

> > >

> >

> > I am trying to be civil here, but to put it simply, "Absolutely".

> >

> > For anyone reading this thread and considering joining a country club, Don't. Do. This. Price is for sure a factor when looking around, but joining a club is done as a lifestyle choice with discretionary income. If anything club membership is the opposite of "day to day business". Financially speaking, joining is almost always a terrible decision. What you get for your investment is a wonderful course, easy access, great friends, a second home, a place to play tennis, probably a nice gym, a good restaurant, a business network, and a million other things. If the financials are your #1 priority a country club is probably not you best option.

> >

> >

>

> Calling someone "low class" out of the gate is incredibly civil of you. I laughed so hard I changed my avatar pic.

 

If you asked that question at a higher end club they would revoke your invite.

When I was a kid at my fathers club there was a clubhouse attendant named big Ed, and sometimes guests would come in and be asking for deals and specials in the pro shop. Well big Ed would take them outside and have a talk with them.

 

Maybe this is new to you and we shouldn’t be jumping on you, but the first thing that comes to mind when i hear this , is that you’re in over your head. Not talking about money.

 

 

[CCTxGolf]

I think there is a little bit of confusion over the definition of a high end club. No way in hell Jupiter hills, Pablo creek, burning tree, lacc, Houston country club, locinvar, bears club (y’all get the point) or any club in that type of league is going to entertain a free shirt question. These types of members could care less what a $120 fj pull over cost. It is indeed low class comparatively to ask for junk like that at high end club. Now, probably 90% of the clubs in the world are not on this level. Most mid size American cities have many clubs in town that you can negotiate at and also have one or two that would laugh you out.

 

You just gotta ask yourself which one you want to be a member at.

[BB28403]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

> > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > > >

> > > > I would ask you a few questions. 1)Are you paying full dues or do you have a reduced dues(either as secondary to a spouse or otherwise)? 2)Is the club actually blocking off weekend morning times for this points game?

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 1. Paying for a couples membership with no restrictions.

> > > 2. No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

> >

> > Sorry, just seeing this now. I think the editing took out the notification.

> >

> > My only beef is with someone who pays less than full dues but expects to be able to play at prime time, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. So this is an informal game among these guys. You are looking to play in the game, not just play in the morning, because you are able to do that? I'm not sure what to say. If the club isn't "sanctioning" this points game, and you have the ability to play in the morning... a club does have a number of people, and eventually there will be a few people who don't like each other. Are there guys who don't get to play in this game? There are games that go on at my club every weekend that not everyone gets into, regardless of which bathroom people use.

> >

> > Your dues get you access to the course, and entry into club events for which you are eligible. They don't get you automatic entry into the "cool kids" club. Your beef would be much stronger if the pro shop was scheduling this, IMHO. You would have a real case for a gripe if they are blocking off times to which you have the same access. But you're allowed in the cafeteria, the jocks/cheerleaders/nerds/whichevergroupyouwant just don't want to let you sit at their table. There is still freedom of association. I guess I would ask why you want to play with these guys, and if they decide to let you in, great, but "guys of their own volition organize a game amongst themselves and don't let women in" is not a valid complaint, IMHO.

>

> I actually don't buy it when they say it's not a club-sponsored activity. It gets mentioned in the club newsletter and it figures prominently in the men's page of the club website.

>

> There are no guys who don't get to play. It's not an "invitation" type of thing. Any male member can play, and he can bring guests, as long as they are men. All they have to do is show up that morning and they are in the game.

>

> I appreciate your comments and I get what you are saying. If I thought that most, or even 1/3 of the guys didn't want to let me play I would drop it. I honestly don't think that is the case. But as oftentimes happens, because it doesn't affect them directly, they don't care enough about it to speak up for me. I honestly believe there are just a handful of men that want to continue to exclude women.

>

> You asked why I want to play. It's not that I have a great desire to play with men; I just like competition. It's a lot more fun and meaningful to be playing in a foursome, where your score means something, than out there playing by yourself, waiting to take every shot because you are sandwiched between foursomes. Our course is only a nine-hole course, and there are sometimes over 40 men playing the point game, so no matter what time I go on a weekend morning, I am going to be in between their foursomes.

>

> The bottom line is, I just don't see what difference it makes if a golfer is a man or a woman. All I'm asking to do is golf with them. Would it be ok if they started excluding bald men, or divorced men, or men over 250 pounds?

>

> I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but this is my opinion.

>

 

Have you thought of doing a “meet up”? Maybe golfers who are as good as you or better?

Not to pigeon hole you, but you could look for collegiate women or ex lpga women.

Or if that’s wayyy out of your league then dip your toe into the right pool. I’m sure that if you are feeling a feeling right now in this time. Then 1000 other women are feeling it also.

Don’t get frustrated with the broken system, design a new workaround. ?

[Miss_Tee]

> @BB28403 said:

> > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > > @Bluefan75 said:

> > > > @ladygolfer2 said:

> > > > >

> > > > > I would ask you a few questions. 1)Are you paying full dues or do you have a reduced dues(either as secondary to a spouse or otherwise)? 2)Is the club actually blocking off weekend morning times for this points game?

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 1. Paying for a couples membership with no restrictions.

> > > > 2. No they are not blocking off the morning times. I can and have squeezed in between foursomes playing in the weekend morning points game because I want to play in the morning. So I imagine you will ask what my beef is if I am still able to golf. The issue I have is that it’s just a couple of the men that don’t want to let women play. Most of the group doesn’t have a problem with it. I’m hoping next summer I’ll be allowed to join in the games on one of the weekend mornings, either Saturdays or Sundays. I think I finally have enough support behind me.

> > >

> > > Sorry, just seeing this now. I think the editing took out the notification.

> > >

> > > My only beef is with someone who pays less than full dues but expects to be able to play at prime time, but that doesn't appear to be the case here. So this is an informal game among these guys. You are looking to play in the game, not just play in the morning, because you are able to do that? I'm not sure what to say. If the club isn't "sanctioning" this points game, and you have the ability to play in the morning... a club does have a number of people, and eventually there will be a few people who don't like each other. Are there guys who don't get to play in this game? There are games that go on at my club every weekend that not everyone gets into, regardless of which bathroom people use.

> > >

> > > Your dues get you access to the course, and entry into club events for which you are eligible. They don't get you automatic entry into the "cool kids" club. Your beef would be much stronger if the pro shop was scheduling this, IMHO. You would have a real case for a gripe if they are blocking off times to which you have the same access. But you're allowed in the cafeteria, the jocks/cheerleaders/nerds/whichevergroupyouwant just don't want to let you sit at their table. There is still freedom of association. I guess I would ask why you want to play with these guys, and if they decide to let you in, great, but "guys of their own volition organize a game amongst themselves and don't let women in" is not a valid complaint, IMHO.

> >

> > I actually don't buy it when they say it's not a club-sponsored activity. It gets mentioned in the club newsletter and it figures prominently in the men's page of the club website.

> >

> > There are no guys who don't get to play. It's not an "invitation" type of thing. Any male member can play, and he can bring guests, as long as they are men. All they have to do is show up that morning and they are in the game.

> >

> > I appreciate your comments and I get what you are saying. If I thought that most, or even 1/3 of the guys didn't want to let me play I would drop it. I honestly don't think that is the case. But as oftentimes happens, because it doesn't affect them directly, they don't care enough about it to speak up for me. I honestly believe there are just a handful of men that want to continue to exclude women.

> >

> > You asked why I want to play. It's not that I have a great desire to play with men; I just like competition. It's a lot more fun and meaningful to be playing in a foursome, where your score means something, than out there playing by yourself, waiting to take every shot because you are sandwiched between foursomes. Our course is only a nine-hole course, and there are sometimes over 40 men playing the point game, so no matter what time I go on a weekend morning, I am going to be in between their foursomes.

> >

> > The bottom line is, I just don't see what difference it makes if a golfer is a man or a woman. All I'm asking to do is golf with them. Would it be ok if they started excluding bald men, or divorced men, or men over 250 pounds?

> >

> > I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but this is my opinion.

> >

>

> Have you thought of doing a “meet up”? Maybe golfers who are as good as you or better?

> Not to pigeon hole you, but you could look for collegiate women or ex lpga women.

> Or if that’s wayyy out of your league then dip your toe into the right pool. I’m sure that if you are feeling a feeling right now in this time. Then 1000 other women are feeling it also.

> Don’t get frustrated with the broken system, design a new workaround. ?

 

College women and ex-LPGA would be waayyyyyy out of my league. Plus there wouldn't be any anywhere near me.

 

But there has been a new development. I emailed the Board about the weekend morning games and at their meeting last week they decided that women are to be allowed to play. So . . . we'll see how it goes next spring. I sincerely hope that the men who are against it will not boycott. I hope they will give it a chance.

[david.c.w]

> @ladygolfer2 said:

 

>

> But there has been a new development. I emailed the Board about the weekend morning games and at their meeting last week they decided that women are to be allowed to play. So . . . we'll see how it goes next spring. I sincerely hope that the men who are against it will not boycott. I hope they will give it a chance.

 

Congrats! Would be interested to know how they will handicap you playing from a different tee, especially with the "ladies" tees generally having a different hole-by-hole difficulty rating than then the "mens". (or did you say that you would play from the same?)

 

I am sure there will be some grumbling but if anyone actually boycotts they are just being an a$$. The only real issue is if you go out and win every week, then there might be some beef, especially if there are a few holes where the tee boxes are so different that you can nearly drive some greens AND get a stroke. Our course has 2 holes where there is a 75 yard difference between the whites and the reds.

 

Good luck!

[Miss_Tee]

Thanks.

The format pretty much takes care of the issue of playing from different tees.

It's a points game; 1 for bogey, 2 for par; 4 for birdie; 8 for eagle

The points you need to get is based on the average of your last five rounds during the morning games.

The man in charge has a book for keeping track of everyone's scores.

You are +, -, or even for the front nine, back nine, and total.

And the same goes for your foursome as a group.

Until you have five rounds in the book, you play off your handicap, but you can't help or hurt your team more than +2 or -2 for each nine.

The format really lends itself to being inclusive.

 

[BB28403]

If you are fan of Larry David. Watch the show called curb your enthusiasm . He has lots of trouble with his golf club from slow players, people dying, the chairman getting another man’s wife pregnant. It really does a good job at poking fun at golf clubs. One quote I remember “golf clubs are always racists , you can’t find one thats not!” And it’s an joke of course but kind of funny if you know the stereotype.

[Miss_Tee]

I've never seen Curb Your Enthusiasm but I am a big Seinfeld fan. I'll check it out. Thanks.