Cheating

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

High school golf is probably the worst for cheating and folks dont even know their cheating.

My son and daughter both understand their team will never be any good. Each of them have two players that can go low the others are fighting to break 110. That being said they love playing on the team.

[jholz]

Unless you have a dedicated and empowered rules official following every group in a tournament, you can expect that cheating is going to happen. As a result, these local tournaments seem to be about the same as your proverbial charity scramble. Of course someone is going to post a 52.

 

The idea that kids and parents are going to effectively police scores and settle disputes on their own is a fantasy. All you need to upset the system is someone who is brazen enough to flaunt the rules, and then challenge anyone who questions their behavior (see Patrick Reed). Most reasonable people aren't going to get involved in that. They obviously don't want to ruin their child's experience by getting into a fight with a kid or parent over a few strokes. So, most people, in most cases, will simply back down in the moment. They may go to a rule official at the end of the round - but by then it is merely one person's word over another - and there is little a rules official can do at that point.

[heavy_hitter]

You are correct and it is sad. It all comes down to people being afraid of offending someone rather than doing things because it is the right thing to do.

[hattrick23]

Yes, Cheating is going on and there needs to be a solution to stop this trend. My son was about 13 (this happened years ago) and they were competing for a local USKG player of the year award and the players dad always walked ahead of the group. If a ball was near OB, amazingly his ball always appeared in bounds. He ended up winning the Player of the year award and my son was second. The next day the tour director called and said a kid in the group told him after the tournament that the kid (dad) had cheated. When confronted, the kid admitted he had cheated and was DQ'd and my son did get the award, although he was

"cheated" out of receiving the award in front of the other competitors, oh well. Later, when he was playing Division 1 golf, a golfer cheated in qualifying by submitting a lower score and was called out by teammates afterward. He never played in another college event. It is sad that "kids" even in college try to get away with cheating. In his particular college, qualifying was not completed at the same time but over a couple days (this also promotes shaving a few strokes if people are not paying attention). It is always uncomfortable to come forward and call someone out for submitting an

"incorrect" score. I think once calling out competitors for incorrect scores becomes more common, it will not be easy to challenge scores. I am not sure what the solution is for cheating.

[REJ]

Good discussion

[leezer99]

Just saw this on the AJGA site:

Advice (Rule 10.2) is any verbal comment or action that is intended to influence you or another player in choosing a club, making a stroke, or deciding how to play during a hole or round. In addition, any conversation between player/spectator may be construed as advice. This includes any conversation between player/spectator in their native language. In either instance, penalty for breach of this rule is two strokes. Players are responsible for the actions of their relatives and spectators in regards to this rule.

From the USGA Interpretations on Rule 10.

10.2a/2 – Player Must Try to Stop Ongoing Advice That Is Given Voluntarily

If a player gets advice from someone other than his or her caddie (such as a spectator) without asking for it, he or she gets no penalty. However, if the player continues to get advice from that same person, the player must try to stop that person from giving advice. If the player does not do so, he or she is treated as asking for that advice and gets the penalty under Rule 10.2a.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

@heavy_hitter I agree totally. I think also you don't want to be that one guy that's in the virtual video.
I often think do I wanna said something that would negatively affect my child. For the next 14 holes is the other kid's Dad going to be looking at my son's coin mark.

[heavy_hitter]

It is honestly a societal issue. Too many people afraid to offend someone. I am not afraid to offend anyone. I will say what I need to say and if you don't like it I don't care. I didn't grow up with a cell phone. I grew up having to communicate verbally.

[tiger1873]

It bad enough when players don’t want to be offended but tour directors in a lot cases are even worse and most of them rather not deal with cheating accusations. I seen first hand how they hand trophy when evidence suggests the score was not correct.

 

[nuthin but a hacker]

My daughter was playing in a tournament last year. On the 4th hole one of the girls was struggling and started trying to shave strokes. She got called out on it. She tried it again on each of the next 3 holes, got pissy when called out, and took out her phone to call her coach and complain. Her coach rolls up to her in a cart where she’s looking for a lost ball, talks to her, and then looks over to the other 3 girls, who were all in agreement that she was dropping strokes. He drives off as she magically finds her ball. But she didn’t try anymore crap the rest of the round since I assume she was aware that all 3 girls were watching her. After the round she came up to my daughter to apologize saying she wasn’t trying to cheat, but was just struggling to keep count.

 

My daughter was cheated early on when she first started playing but luckily she decided she wasn’t going to get beat that way and will call others out now. Where she still has trouble is when the parents and grandparents want to help their kid by affecting other kids. And there are more than a few out there willing to do that.

[cardoustie]

I had to call out a kid in a university tournament 25 + years ago .. reporting wrong score .. 3 holes in a row

He never played again for that school. First though he tried to complain to his coach that I took a wrong drop from GUR ... it was wild

It is rampant in junior golf, my buddies with young kids tell me all kinds of horror stories

I guess there is a lot at stakes for parents and scholarships

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

It would happen in other scores as well. Golf just happens to be a sport than you self report.

 

If it was baseball. Kid would report he went 4-4 and hit for the cycle every game.

[MB19]

Referencing both teams' scorebooks would get to the end of the baseball problem, most likely--or at least close to it.

[cardoustie]

Yes but normally a 21 year old would know not to report lower numbers after getting called out once

[BFD3]

My kids are playing a local tournament which clearly states in multiple places (website, printouts, sign on first tee) that spectators are to stay 25 yards away and to not communicate with the players. But they have no official scorers or any other officials with each group. One of my kids (who asked my wife and I not to follow) played with two other kids whose parents were talking (and berating) their own kids from the first tee on. She didn’t know if they were discussing strategy at times but was very uncomfortable with the way the adults were screaming and cursing. Should she or I have said something to the officials after the round?

[heavy_hitter]

Before I talk to a tournament official of director I always say something to the parents first. I believe in being transparent.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

Mom and father two week or three weeks ago. They were caddying for their daughter. Caddy was suppose to be under 18. Mom was riding in the cart as were the clubs. The group was warned several times for slow play. The mom figured she was also the walking scorer. She ask me what was my daughters score.

First time I politely said the girls should discuss it at the end of the hole. At the second hole she asked again. "As I said before the girls are suppose to be keeping score."

Third time. Please dont ask me anymore. The girls are suppose to not you.

[mrshinsa]

At one of the recent tournament, a cheater in my son's age group was called out and got sent home.

This wasn't just not knowing the rules, or getting advice from spectator. It was pretty blatant, trying to shave off strokes.

He had a history of issues, but first time something happened as a result.

It was a bittersweet moment, but these things just don't belong in this sport.

 

[chrissdc]

If it bothers your kid, then yes your KID (alone) should talk to an official.

As a parent after the round, I believe you maybe can help your kid formulate their thoughts, in order to provide a concise factual complaint to an official.

 

[BFD3]

It did bother her but she decided that she didn’t want to penalize the other kids because their parents were harassing them. She felt bad for them. Best part of the story was that she ended up winning even after reporting to the officials that her group might have played one hole from the wrong tees. The other girls told her they’d get in trouble if they were DQ’ed. She told them she’d get in trouble if she didn’t report it. Turned out they did play the correct tees and no penalty was assessed.

[heavy_hitter]

Within the next month I am going to post what happened to my son this past year.

At an AJGA last week a kid tried to cheat. Par 3 with water surrounding it. Boards went around hole. Kid hits the top of the board and the ball falls back into the water. Kid retees and the ball hits the boards and goes back into the water again. Kid puts club in bag and starts to walk. The boy's asked him what he was doing and the kid said "The ball crossed land so I will drop up there." Both boy's told him it didn't cross land and he needed to retee. He adamantly stated it crossed land. I guess he didn't think my kid would bring it up at the scorers table. Have no idea what the boy was thinking. They got the senior's rule official who questioned the kid then DQ'd him. The kid was balling crying because he knew he was wrong.

[leezer99]

Someone is going to be writing a strongly worded letter. LOL