Tiger and persimmon woods

[mat562]

The Ultramid was horrid-feeling and sounding thing.

Several people I know bought one (coincidentally around August/September 1991 ) and I naturally had a knock with one against the Taylor Made I was hitting at the time.

It looked, and felt, like a bar of soap, and went exceedingly low is all I can remember about it.

[Ogre41]

This thread has me thinking about digging out the old golf clubs that I bought because they looked cool. A Hogan persimmon wood driver with a speed slot (I bet they all had that though), a Yonex Graphlex 3 wood, a Ping Eye 2 4 wood, and some sort of old Walter Hagen 7 wood. That may be a good start playing with the inlaws this chrsitmas as they don't get out as much as I do and that should level the playing field, if not tilt it towards them. Either way, should be fun!



Just hit the old woody yesterday and I think that maybe an Original Big Bertha or a Warbird driver would be more realistic. Otherwise, everyone is gonna punish me.

[jimb]

I am not sure how the new balls would perform with the persimmon driver of old. Those old wooden suckers needed spin to go up in the air. The modern ball is designed to spin as little as possible when hit flush with a driver. The last driver I bought, and still have, is a Wood BrosTexan. Arguably one of the finest persimmon drivers ever made. Other than a metal sole plate it was just a solid mass of wood. The only thing correcting a mishit with the persimmon head was bulge and roll, which did provide some gear effect. Too far from the center and you lost a ton of distance.

Wood Brothers also toyed with clubs like the Corker, which I believe was a cork plug in the center of the head and then there was Peerless Pete, the first persimmon driver that I recall that had some perimeter weighting and came with a stock graphite shaft. It was longer than a standard driver, but never caught on.

Persimmon drivers are seriously heavy and that in itself will affect swingspeed and timing. Even for someone as strong as Tiger, I would think he could hit is Nike driver and NOP 50 yards past anything persimmon.

[XYB34A]

I have read all of the posts. I have put a couple of them in myself. Mat said that he can barely hit a 5 yard fade with the new ball. Another poster said that his 5 yard fade with a balata ball was a 15 yard slice and he missed the green. That is the whole point. With a ball that wont cut or fade or won't draw or hook. Then the skill to hook, draw, duck hook, cut, fade, slice, punch, skip u name it is gone. I think the only time that skill is involved is tournament play where the ole "three letter word that everyone has one scrunchs up" If u can get thru that, then you have skill.

[bma725]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826901' date='Dec 16 2007, 05:47 PM']Somebody thats good at looking stuff up look this one up Jack Nicklaus entered one PGA driving contest I think in the sixtys they used to have one every year at the PGA He hit it 340 and the record stood for like 20 years

Kids Tiger did not invent the long ball I remember when Jack smoked just about everyone on tour by about twenty.[/quote]

It wasn't just Jack. I caught a couple of the old Challenge Golf episodes where Arnold Palmer and Gary Player would play a best ball match against other pros in the 1960s. There were drives hit in the 330+ range, lots of drives around 310 or 320, guys like Palmer, George Bayer etc were cranking the ball out there. Even Player hit a few at 300, and Sam Snead despite his age was close. Difference was when they mishit it, it went nowhere.

[Adk Jake]

I watched a Challenge Golf episode the other night, Sam Snead vs Billy Maxwell. I'd say Maxwell averaged about 250 -255 of the tee, Sam 20 -25 yds longer. On one of the long par 4 holes, Maxwell had to hit driver - 4 wood, Snead hit driver - 4 iron.

I'll bet today's PGA tour pro, even one who's in the middle in driving distance would probably be hitting a 7 or 8 iron on the same hole.

Not that I long for the persimmon wood-blata ball days, but a little roll back wouldn't hurt. A long par 4, should require a second shot made with a 4 wood or 4 iron.

[StaffBag]

[quote name='Adk Jake' post='826195' date='Dec 16 2007, 04:28 AM']Got to thinking about Tiger's comments the other day about today's clubs vs persimmon woods, and that he's only about 15 yds longer now than he was back in the days when he was still using a persimmon driver, and that he thought most of the difference is in the ball. He further stated the obvious that today's woods are more forgiving and that if he mishit a persimmon driver, he was lucky to get 200 yds out of it.

Just wondering how many of you who were playing back in the persimmon days agree with him? I kind of do, maybe a 20 yard difference for me between today's solid tee shot and what I used to get out of the old woods. Course I was younger then too

Every once in a while, if I'm hitting it crappy off the tee, I'll take an old persimmon driver to the range and practice with it. Makes you really concentrate on hitting it solid on the center of the club. The good ones go pretty far, less carry more roll for me.

And, if you want to get some laughs, have someone who's taken up the game since metal woods became popular and have them hit the woodie. They're like, how the heck did people ever play with these things [/quote]

I believe him. However, I think that he is a bit underestimating the total yardage. I would think it is closer to 20 to 25 instead of 15... but that is why he is Tiger.

I took my old Palmer Peerless out of storage this past summer. (10* loft, X100, 44" long... just a BEAST for weight now!) Anyway, I hit it along with some of my "younger" friends who have never hit a "wood" wood before!

What I found was that the head looked VERY small from what I remembered. I hit it just fine, loved the feel (but did seem "dead" compared to today's stuff) and only hit it about 10 yards farther than my current 3 wood!!! (A 906 F4 at 13* with an Aldila VS 85 X in it!)

Considering that you only really hit your driver about 15 yards longer than your 3 wood (in the air carry) what the main difference is today is the superior MOI, the longer and lighter shaft, more forgiveness on misses, better spin control from being fitted, and todays golfball. (The spin control and the golfball are virtually related due to the increased knowledge in today's fitting!)

All this translates into about 20 yards more than 18 years ago. Not overly surprising. I'm sure that someone will blast these findings, but my little test was not overly scientific and had a great deal of human error involved. However, I do believe this to be relatively accurate due to my own skill level.

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='Konrad' post='826964' date='Dec 16 2007, 05:40 PM'][quote name='kenk7us2002' post='826901' date='Dec 16 2007, 06:47 PM']Konrad sooner or later we have to quit making the ball go longer its that simple or the game will out grow the courses and the real estate. But I am and old guy and am in no way in favor of rolling the current ball back or coming up with a special ball for tour players.[/quote]


We've made the ball go as far as possible. The COR has been maxed out on clubs and balls. Anything else you read is pure propaganda. The only way to gain distance nowadays is to be properly fit into your sticks.
[/quote]

There is a thing called aerodynamics, my friend. Also, mating materials within the ball to emphesize intertia will increase ball speed and thus distance. The ball is about as far as it can go but I believe designers can still get more.

**********************************************************************

Getting back to the topic:

I used to play persimmon woods and balata golf balls. Personally, I prefer these as these made players play shots instead of just banging the ball down the middle. Shotmaking is an art that a lot of young players have no idea how to do or when and why. I played my best golf sporting a MacGregor persimmon driver and 3 wood and playing balata golf balls back in 1991 and 1992. I was playing to about a 2 handicap then.

Here are some beauties!

All of the woods are MacGregors from the 1950s. The top picture is a 1950-1952 Tommy Armour 693 driver. The second picture is a 1954-1955 M75 EOM Tourney. The third picture is the soleplates of the (from left to right) M75, 693, 1954-1955 Tommy Armour 945 EOM, 1953 Tommy Armour 945 solid red insert 3 wood. The last picture is the M75 (top) and 693.

[mat562]

Lovely selection there Robot.

[RobotDoctor]

Thanks mat562!

[quote name='jimb' post='828202' date='Dec 17 2007, 05:14 PM']... The last driver I bought, and still have, is a Wood BrosTexan. Arguably one of the finest persimmon drivers ever made. Other than a metal sole plate it was just a solid mass of wood. ...[/quote]

Most manufacturers of Persimmon clubs would pour molten lead into a cavity in the head (under the soleplate) to ensure the head weighed a specific amount. Of course Persimmon heads were oil hardened and this process would add weight.

[XYB34A]

Robotdoctor. great looking clubs. I really miss the sweetest pure shot, hitting it on the screws with a balata ball. It felt like a marshmallow. Take great care of those. I remember going to an olderman that had worked for Maxfli-????. In Greenville South Carolina in the late 80's and he took the sole plates off a set of woods that I owned and swingweighted them all to D6. Then he put a new coat of shellac on the bottom of them to seal them from water again. I had special ordered a set of Powerbilt Citation's with a Dynamic Gold x300 in them. And to think, how proud you were when u could play a round with a balata ball and not smile it. That was an accomplishment in itself.

[freddiec]

RobotDr- Always like looking at those classics of yours.

I played a good amount of golf this year with a persimmon driver that was made in the 50s, and also used a balata ball from the 80s. I can tell you for sure , the difference for me was about 30 to 40 yards. I hit the persimmon about 235-240 yds tops. It is amazing how difficult it can be to hit these classics straight, but the feel and look great.

Here are my 3 classics. The 945W Tommy Armour EOM, M85W (my fav) and a M75W.[attachment=199755:MoninasG...tion_085.jpg]

[RobotDoctor]

Fred, these are about as good a set of drivers anyone could ever own. The only thing really missing is a nice M43. Thanks for sharing pictures of the drivers!

[seanylax21]

I think that Tiger's reason to go back to "old school" is to play at his advantage and hit all those crazy shots that he and only he and a few others can hit. Plus he would probably dominate the entire field

[RobotDoctor]

Believe me, if Persimmon woods and Balata balls were reinstated then there would be many people that could work the ball, not just Tiger. Tiger is a tremendous ball striker so maybe he would be the head of the class. I will offer that I used to work the ball a lot when I played Persimmon woods and Balata balls because it was so much easier to do with those.

[mat562]

I agree that Woods would still be on top if a return to persimmon was the edict from the ruling bodies tomorrow.

I also think there would be a lot of players who would move up or down the rankings based on the quality of their ballstriking. The modern game places so much emphasis on length and putting. In essence, if you hit the ball a long way, and/or are a good putter you'll do well.

Make it more difficult to even hit the fairway - let alone 330 yards out - and you open up the field a lot more than is the case currently.

the good iron players and flushers of the ball will come through a whole lot more, and the game will be more a test of the complete range of skills, rather than Bomb and Gouge and hole a lot of putts.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='mat562' post='830695' date='Dec 19 2007, 06:35 PM']I agree that Woods would still be on top if a return to persimmon was the edict from the ruling bodies tomorrow.

I also think there would be a lot of players who would move up or down the rankings based on the quality of their ballstriking. The modern game places so much emphasis on length and putting. In essence, if you hit the ball a long way, and/or are a good putter you'll do well.

Make it more difficult to even hit the fairway - let alone 330 yards out - and you open up the field a lot more than is the case currently.

the good iron players and flushers of the ball will come through a whole lot more, and the game will be more a test of the complete range of skills, rather than Bomb and Gouge and hole a lot of putts.[/quote]

100% agree. One of the real shames is that technology has rendered some of the great old courses of the game obsolete for Championship tournament play. I'd love to see great iron play and shotmaking become a more important component of the game, but unfortunately I think that a rollback in ball and driver technology isn't the right answer. Maybe banning square grooves and wedges with more than 56 deg. of loft for the Pro tours is the right way to go. That would really place a much greater emphasis on hitting fairways and greens without altering the game too much and making it more difficult for the amateurs.

[Swingtheclub]

I love Freddies woods. I have a four wood I think is and eyeomatic in the garage and a Jimmy Demaret driver

that is sweet.

Hogans fan why would you ban wedges with over sixty degrees of loft they have been around for fifty years.

I have and R91 I got in 1972 that I think is 61 or 62 with about fourteen degrees of bounce.

You know when Gary Adams came out with his first Metal woods with Taylor (not that he designed them) He talked about them being indestructible (he wanted everyone to throw away the head covers at first) and the lower center of gravity getting the ball up easy.

It never dawned on him at first that they would go straighter, a small by product of there being hard to work is they go straighter lol or that eventually they would go farther.

He did talk about the swing weights staying the same and how the clubs would not swell with moisture. Its funny Gary new what he had would be big but honestly he was not sure how.

[Cbey77]

I actually think conditioning and a better understanding of the swing through vedio and other media has advance the distance as much as anything else. Also, fairways are tighter. Don't get me wrong, the clubs and ball play a big factor. But these guys playing today are starting with better instruction at an earlier age. Even hackers are talking about swing plane. Combine all those elements and you get what we have today. Sorry, guys, I have no desire to see pros hitting 50 yard cuts like Lee Travino. Nor do I have a desire to have to switch balls every three hole because it is cut up. Give me 320 loud and straight any day.

[hoganfan924]

[quote name='kenk7us2002' post='830818' date='Dec 19 2007, 08:37 PM']Hogans fan why would you ban wedges with over sixty degrees of loft they have been around for fifty years.

I have and R91 I got in 1972 that I think is 61 or 62 with about fourteen degrees of bounce.[/quote]

Ken,

Just an idea for how to put more of a premium on hitting fairways and greens instead of bomb & gouge. I think banning square grooves for PGA and other major tours would actually have the biggest impact. I think it would be kind of funny in the first year seeing some of the younger guys learn what a flyer lie really is and then having to adjust to hit those kind of shots.

[dlygrisse]

IMO I too think that banning a club because it has more than 56* of loft would be a bad idea, because it really doesnt have anything to do with technology, just loft. Who knows how many people bent thier wedges in years gone by to have more loft. While I am sure the "standard" was around 55 or 56* for many years, anyone with a loft and lie machine and a soft forged wedge could bend them 4* or so no problem. Plus, the old Niblicks only had around 50* loft, so the argument could be make that we should go back to that as a standard if you want real shot makers. Why not go back to hickory shafts as well?
I would agree that square grooves should be banned, and that it would put more of a premium on shotmaking and putting the ball in the fairway. Square grooves, as we know them, are a relativley modern invention, and the rules makers have been regulating them for centuries. You can find pictures of some old Schottish niblicks that had monster grooves that were made illegal.
If you want to see some more shotmaking I say cut the number of clubs back to 10 or 12 and let the player decide if they want a 64* wedge in thier bag, or they want a 52* to be the highest loft, thier choice. I would suspect you would see most players only keep a 60* if it was thier favorite club, most others would go back to a 56* or 58*. Plus with todays sole grinds it is very easy to make a 56* play like a 60* if you have just a little talent and some practice.
The golf ball does play a big part in distance, but the thing that bothers me is not that the distance standard is too great, it is that the tolerances on that distance standard need to be tightened down to almost nothing. 2% is too much if you consider most of them are building the ball at the tolerance, and them hoping it doesnt go 3% over that. Leave no tolerance and then they would have to build the balls below the tolerance and it would effectivley cut almost 10 yards carry off of a 300 yard drive.
As far as the balata spinning more and being able to "work" the ball more with them, I think that if the pros wanted a ball that curved they would demand the manufacturers to make one. The real difference between the balatas and the ProV's is that the ProV's fly off of a driver like the old Pinnacles and Top Flites but stop on the green like the old balatas. The pros now get the best of both worlds and the only thing they need to worry about is controling trajectory.
What really bothers me is not that players can bomb it, it is that I am totally jealous becasue I can't bomb it becasue I am getting older, and my back and hips are killing me! LOL
But seriously the sad thing is that I dont think we will ever see a Corey Pavin/Justin Leonard/Jerry Barber/Mark Brooks win a major again. It is just too difficult for these guys to compete because they are at such a disadvantage. I dont think that the spring like effect/modern ball really gives you that big of an advantage until you get you clubhead speed over 115 mph. I cant find any scientific studies to back this up, although I did read an article once that led me to beleive that this is true. There jsut seems to be an exponential gain at some level that really helps the higher swing speed players. If you could roll back the COR, tighten the tolerance on the ball, pull a couple of clubs from the bags, I think you would see the return of the shot maker. You could accomplish this without getting rid of the forgiveness of the larger clubs, not punish the average player, but make the game more of a shotmakeing contest for the top level players. JMO

[PixlPutterman]

i believe that the world record for longest drive in a pro tourney is still held by a persimmon driver
""On Sept. 25, 1974, [Mike] Austin was playing in the US National Seniors Open Championship at the Winterwood Golf Course in Las Vegas, a course since renamed Desert Rose. Austin drew back and unleashed a blast that flew more than 400 yards, bounced in front of the green and came to rest 65 yards beyond the flag-stick. That shot set the Guinness world record as the longest drive ever recorded in a PGA tournament: 515 yards."

[Night train]

[quote name='Cbey77' post='831645' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:13 PM']I actually think conditioning and a better understanding of the swing through vedio and other media has advance the distance as much as anything else. Also, fairways are tighter. Don't get me wrong, the clubs and ball play a big factor. But these guys playing today are starting with better instruction at an earlier age. Even hackers are talking about swing plane. Combine all those elements and you get what we have today. Sorry, guys, I have no desire to see pros hitting 50 yard cuts like Lee Travino. Nor do I have a desire to have to switch balls every three hole because it is cut up. Give me 320 loud and straight any day.[/quote]

With all due respect..........BS

I'm 54 years old and hitting it 20 yards farther off the tee than I did 30 years ago and a club longer with my irons. I'm 40 lbs. heavier than I was then........it isn't conditioning that has me hitting it farther.

[RobotDoctor]

It is mostly the ball that makes todays game longer. Yes, "woods" have improved and are longer but the major distance increase is the ball.

[TEConnor]

[quote name='hoganfan924' post='826713' date='Dec 16 2007, 04:26 PM']Took a quick check on the stats:

In 1980, the median driving length on tour was 256.7 yds.
In 2007 - 288.6 yds. A 31.9 yd. difference That's a 3 club difference on the approach shot for most of us.

Before some wiseguy flames me claiming that median is wothless and mean would be more appropriate, I've done this before and the difference in the 2 was less than 0.5 yds. (due to the relatively normal distribution and large sample size)

BTW, Sandy Lyle was T46th in 1986 with a 267 yd. avg.[/quote]

The historical drive stats on tour are fascinating to me. Here are the top 5 in driving from 1990 - 2005.

[color="#808080"][list]
[*]1990: Purtzer-280, Adams-279, Forsman-278, Lancaster-278, Norman-278
[*]1991: Daly-289, Norman-282, Couples-281, Cheesman-276, Forsman-276
[*]1992: Daly-283, Blackmar-277, Adams-276, Gibson-275, Couples-275
[*]1993: Daly-298, LoveIII-280, Jackson-279, Adams-278
[*]1994: LoveIII-284, Paulson-283, Couples-280, Barranger-279, Gamez-278
[*]1995: Daly-289, LoveIII-285, Paulson-284, Singh-284, Gibson-280
[*]1996: Daly-289, Adams-287, Couples-286, LoveIII-286, Herron-284
[*]1997: Daly-302, Woods-295, Glasson-288, LoveIII-286, Mickelson-284
[*]1998: Daly-299, Woods-296, Frazar-290, Couples-289, McCarron-289
[*]1999: Daly-306, Couch-296, Woods-293, Sabbatini-293, Frazar-291
[*]2000: Daly-301, Woods-298, LoveIII-289, Mickelson-289, McCarron-289
[*]2001: Daly-307, Quigley-299, LoveIII-298, Woods-298, Duval-297
[*]2002: Daly-307, Weekly-297, Goggin-296, HowellIII-294, Paulson-294
[*]2003: Kuehne-324, Daly-314, Mickelson-306, Clarke-305, Els-303
[*]2004: Kuehne-314, Hend-313, Daly-306, Heinen-305, Smith-304
[*]2005: Hend-319, Woods-316, Wetterich-312, Gutschewski-311, Daly-310
[/list][/color]

Following three guys from 1990 through 2005, I'd say that Couples, Daly, and LoveIII would be a good barometers.

[color="#808080"][list]
[*]1990: Couples-273, Daly-297, LoveIII-277
[*]1991: Couples-281, Daly-289, LoveIII-272
[*]1992: Couples-275, Daly-283, LoveIII-273
[*]1993: Couples-275, Daly-289, LoveIII-280
[*]1994: Couples-280, Daly-290, LoveIII-284
[*]1995: Couples-276, Daly-289, LoveIII-285
[*]1996: Couples-286, Daly-289, LoveIII-286
[*]1997: Couples-284, Daly-302, LoveIII-286
[*]1998: Couples-289, Daly-299, LoveIII-281
[*]1999: Couples-283, Daly-306, LoveIII-283
[*]2000: Couples-285, Daly-301, LoveIII-289
[*]2001: Couples-288, Daly-307, LoveIII-298
[*]2002: Couples-289, Daly-307, LoveIII-288
[*]2003: Couples-293, Daly-314, LoveIII-299
[*]2004: Couples-295, Daly-306, LoveIII-300
[*]2005: Couples-296, Daly-310, LoveIII-305
[/list][/color]

My presumption on looking at these stats is that during the 90's the ball had not changed a lot from the 80s, but the tour moved to an exclusive metal wood era. In 2000 Titleist put out the proV1, which may be a decent mark for a major innovation in ball design and construction (possibly in response to other companies, but I'm no ball manufacturing expert). Driver heads and shafts definitely improved throughout the 2000's, but the ball was the major changer in my opinion during this period. Based on a completely off-the-cuff reaction to these numbers I'd say that the move to metal woods was a 10 yard gain, on average, the solid core balls another 10, and a combo of fitness and fitting technology another 10.

Tim

[Cbey77]

[quote name='Night train' post='832555' date='Dec 21 2007, 08:42 AM'][quote name='Cbey77' post='831645' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:13 PM']I actually think conditioning and a better understanding of the swing through vedio and other media has advance the distance as much as anything else. Also, fairways are tighter. Don't get me wrong, the clubs and ball play a big factor. But these guys playing today are starting with better instruction at an earlier age. Even hackers are talking about swing plane. Combine all those elements and you get what we have today. Sorry, guys, I have no desire to see pros hitting 50 yard cuts like Lee Travino. Nor do I have a desire to have to switch balls every three hole because it is cut up. Give me 320 loud and straight any day.[/quote]

With all due respect..........BS

I'm 54 years old and hitting it 20 yards farther off the tee than I did 30 years ago and a club longer with my irons. I'm 40 lbs. heavier than I was then........it isn't conditioning that has me hitting it farther.

[/quote]


Anytime someone says "all due respect" followed by BS, they don't mean it. Anyway, if you read the post, I'm not discounting equipement. I was just stating that todays players have a better overall understanding of the swing and in general are better conditioned to hit longer balls. I think that if you took your equipemnt from 30 years ago today, you would hit it longer than you were then. You've played longer and what a golfer can learn and understand about the swing today is far greater than what it was in the past. The advancements in golf instruction do to technology alone have given us a few more yards. Be honest, how much better do you understand the swing today than you did when you started? How much better do 20 year olds playing today understand the swing than you did when you were their age? I'm 30, and I reamember when I was a teenager and we didn't know what the hell we were doing. We were just out playing. Now, I'm at the range and I have 14 year olds talking about clearing their hips and staying on plane. Access and information along with all the other things are playing a role in why we hit the ball farther. I don't we can just blame it on balls and clubs.

And on another note, that does not mean that as a whole we are playing better golf. While distance has gone up, handicaps have not went down. So, this whole notion of courses becoming out of date or not usable is a big joke. Golf always wins in the long run.

[Night train]

[quote name='Cbey77' post='833542' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:57 PM'][quote name='Night train' post='832555' date='Dec 21 2007, 08:42 AM'][quote name='Cbey77' post='831645' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:13 PM']I actually think conditioning and a better understanding of the swing through vedio and other media has advance the distance as much as anything else. Also, fairways are tighter. Don't get me wrong, the clubs and ball play a big factor. But these guys playing today are starting with better instruction at an earlier age. Even hackers are talking about swing plane. Combine all those elements and you get what we have today. Sorry, guys, I have no desire to see pros hitting 50 yard cuts like Lee Travino. Nor do I have a desire to have to switch balls every three hole because it is cut up. Give me 320 loud and straight any day.[/quote]

With all due respect..........BS

I'm 54 years old and hitting it 20 yards farther off the tee than I did 30 years ago and a club longer with my irons. I'm 40 lbs. heavier than I was then........it isn't conditioning that has me hitting it farther.

[/quote]


Anytime someone says "all due respect" followed by BS, they don't mean it. Anyway, if you read the post, I'm not discounting equipement. I was just stating that todays players have a better overall understanding of the swing and in general are better conditioned to hit longer balls. I think that if you took your equipemnt from 30 years ago today, you would hit it longer than you were then. You've played longer and what a golfer can learn and understand about the swing today is far greater than what it was in the past. The advancements in golf instruction do to technology alone have given us a few more yards. Be honest, how much better do you understand the swing today than you did when you started? How much better do 20 year olds playing today understand the swing than you did when you were their age? I'm 30, and I reamember when I was a teenager and we didn't know what the hell we were doing. We were just out playing. Now, I'm at the range and I have 14 year olds talking about clearing their hips and staying on plane. Access and information along with all the other things are playing a role in why we hit the ball farther. I don't we can just blame it on balls and clubs.

And on another note, that does not mean that as a whole we are playing better golf. While distance has gone up, handicaps have not went down. So, this whole notion of courses becoming out of date or not usable is a big joke. Golf always wins in the long run.
[/quote]

When you're 54 you'll understand why you shouldn't hit longer than you did when you were 24.......

[Cbey77]

[quote name='Night train' post='833701' date='Dec 22 2007, 06:58 AM'][quote name='Cbey77' post='833542' date='Dec 21 2007, 09:57 PM'][quote name='Night train' post='832555' date='Dec 21 2007, 08:42 AM'][quote name='Cbey77' post='831645' date='Dec 20 2007, 02:13 PM']I actually think conditioning and a better understanding of the swing through vedio and other media has advance the distance as much as anything else. Also, fairways are tighter. Don't get me wrong, the clubs and ball play a big factor. But these guys playing today are starting with better instruction at an earlier age. Even hackers are talking about swing plane. Combine all those elements and you get what we have today. Sorry, guys, I have no desire to see pros hitting 50 yard cuts like Lee Travino. Nor do I have a desire to have to switch balls every three hole because it is cut up. Give me 320 loud and straight any day.[/quote]

With all due respect..........BS

I'm 54 years old and hitting it 20 yards farther off the tee than I did 30 years ago and a club longer with my irons. I'm 40 lbs. heavier than I was then........it isn't conditioning that has me hitting it farther.

[/quote]


Anytime someone says "all due respect" followed by BS, they don't mean it. Anyway, if you read the post, I'm not discounting equipement. I was just stating that todays players have a better overall understanding of the swing and in general are better conditioned to hit longer balls. I think that if you took your equipemnt from 30 years ago today, you would hit it longer than you were then. You've played longer and what a golfer can learn and understand about the swing today is far greater than what it was in the past. The advancements in golf instruction do to technology alone have given us a few more yards. Be honest, how much better do you understand the swing today than you did when you started? How much better do 20 year olds playing today understand the swing than you did when you were their age? I'm 30, and I reamember when I was a teenager and we didn't know what the hell we were doing. We were just out playing. Now, I'm at the range and I have 14 year olds talking about clearing their hips and staying on plane. Access and information along with all the other things are playing a role in why we hit the ball farther. I don't we can just blame it on balls and clubs.

And on another note, that does not mean that as a whole we are playing better golf. While distance has gone up, handicaps have not went down. So, this whole notion of courses becoming out of date or not usable is a big joke. Golf always wins in the long run.
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When you're 54 you'll understand why you shouldn't hit longer than you did when you were 24.......

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I'm almost afraid to see what the game will look like in 20+ years. But, we'll see. I say, hit it hard as you can for as long as you can.

[freddiec]

Thanks RoborDr. I'd like to also pick up a M43 sometime to complete the collection, that and a great 693.

Happy Holidays!!!

[mat562]

A Cleveland DG43 would be a nice addition to my collection...

Some beautiful old clubs on show in this thread.