What's coming next from the USGA and R&A...

[Dr. Block]

3 minutes ago, mahonie said:

You do realise that you’re talking about a guy who couldn’t hardly walk, is getting on in professional golf years and yet he still whooped the cream of best young talent only a few months ago?

 

8 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I am extremely entertained by today's professional golf.  Those guys can hit shots I can only dream about, including bombing driver down a tight fairway, on tv, with big money on the line and in the recent past, while Tiger was next to you with a huge gallery.  I don't hold onto the past much if at all.  I grew up watching Tiger, i think he was amazing but I see what he does and I wonder why he can't hardly hold a fairway with driver unless he hits one that spins like crazy basically making it a 3 wood off the tee?  I wonder why he isn't making cuts.  I wonder why Phil wasn't making cuts, and why he was so errant with driver all of the time.  It is almost as if, that is difficult to do.  Don't give me age or spine surgery excuses either.  Tiger still has his hands and talent, so does Phil.  Both also have plenty of length to compete.  Is it possible...maybe just a little....these modern golfers are REALLY good at the game?  Maybe as good or better than even the great Tiger and Phil?  I think it is a very big possibility they are.  Shoot, Tiger couldn't even win at his own Tiger stinger shot in a TM commercial.

 

 

  Your modern players will be as good as Tiger and Phil when they accomplish as much.  It's not looking like any of them will have the longevity or dominance to even sniff Phil's record.   Not saying it can't be done, but it seems un-likely.  Brooks Koepka was on pace, but his body is already failing him. 

[mahonie]

1 minute ago, clevited said:

 

What do you have to control when hitting a hugely important shot out of the woods with tree limbs hanging down and no clear window to go through?  How many times do you see players holding a fade up against the cross wind, or a draw?  How about Tiger's sand save not long ago?  How about Phil's saves on the Champions Tour just this weekend?  Is that not the art/imagination you guys so desperately desire and want to hold onto?

 

I see this stuff all of the time on the tour, but you know what, I am still more impressed by the bombs these guys hit down a tight fairway with trouble on either side and are playing with a lead on a Sunday.  Wow, to uncork one when all it takes is a tiny mistake and that ball is 30 yards in the crap, I am amazed and very entertained by the talent these guys possess. 

I’ll pick a top 10 player and tell you what I see. JT cannot control trajectory when coming out of trees. I’ve seen him hit overhanging branches on three separate occasions over the summer. I’ve seen him hit drives that have been 70 yards offline. That’s really poor. Radar actually measured the distance between a couple of JT’s drives on the same hole 2 rounds apart...it was 190 yards! 190 yards!! Cupcake hits it into the drink when he’s got a 70 yard wide fairway to hit.

 

Entertaining? It’s laughable.

[clevited]

9 minutes ago, mahonie said:

You do realise that you’re talking about a guy who couldn’t hardly walk, is getting on in professional golf years and yet he still whooped the cream of best young talent only a few months ago?

 

Tiger won the master's largely because the guys around him fell apart.  It also helps to have Tiger confidence and galleries around you.  Yes he is still a great iron player too.  He put it all together, and guys around him also fell apart, that is how he won.

[mahonie]

Just now, clevited said:

 

Tiger won the master's largely because the guys around him fell apart.  It also helps to have Tiger confidence and galleries around you.  Yes he is still a great iron player too.  He put it all together, and guys around him also fell apart, that is how he won.

He won.

[clevited]

2 minutes ago, mahonie said:

I’ll pick a top 10 player and tell you what I see. JT cannot control trajectory when coming out of trees. I’ve seen him hit overhanging branches on three separate occasions over the summer. I’ve seen him hit drives that have been 70 yards offline. That’s really poor. Radar actually measured the distance between a couple of JT’s drives on the same hole 2 rounds apart...it was 190 yards! 190 yards!! Cupcake hits it into the drink when he’s got a 70 yard wide fairway to hit.

 

Entertaining? It’s laughable.

 

I thought the driver was easiest club in the bag to hit though?

[milesgiles]

13 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Why do you think the game isn't growing?  I would love to see how you might connect distance and growing the game issues.

 

Lots of reasons mainly expense and time but.. the game used to be taught, or learnt, from the green backwards.

 

the sheer size of the driver now makes it easy to hit with bad technique, which isn’t worth much when it comes to the rest of the game. Result, quit in frustration

[mahonie]

Just now, clevited said:

 

I thought the driver was easiest club in the bag to hit though?

Exactly!!!

[clevited]

Just now, mahonie said:

He won.

 

How did he do at that there US Open where hitting fairways and being a masterful iron player should have put him at a large advantage?

[Dr. Block]

deleted.  my bad

Edited October 20, 2020 by Dr. Block

[mahonie]

Just now, clevited said:

 

How did he do at that there US Open where hitting fairways and being a masterful iron player should have put him at a large advantage?

You do realise that the USGA set it up for BCD to win to fast-forward the rollback...did I say that out loud?

[clevited]

8 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Exactly!!!

 

Do you realize you F'd with your own logic?  

 

-Drive is easiest club to hit you say.

-JT is a hugely successful pro golfer, and struggles at times to hit his driver and it goes way offline.

-Phil and Tiger, who supposedly have amazing skills hit their drivers all over the place, especially when they go after one at all.

- You can conclude therefore, either JT,  Phil and Tiger are horribly untalented golfers that can't hit the easiest club in the bag that practically hits itself, or that the driver is still a hugely difficult club to hit well.  

Edited October 20, 2020 by clevited

[Dr. Block]

4 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Tiger won the master's largely because the guys around him fell apart.  It also helps to have Tiger confidence and galleries around you.  Yes he is still a great iron player too.  He put it all together, and guys around him also fell apart, that is how he won.

Come on man.  Really?   He played the best golf in the fewest shots.  That's why he won. 

[clevited]

1 minute ago, mahonie said:

You do realise that the USGA set it up for BCD to win to fast-forward the rollback...did I say that out loud?

 

I do.  I also realize the earth is flat, and we really didn't land on the moon.....

[mahonie]

1 minute ago, clevited said:

 

I do.  I also realize the earth is flat, and we really didn't land on the moon.....

🙄

[clevited]

5 minutes ago, Dr. Block said:

Come on man.  Really?   He played the best golf in the fewest shots.  That's why he won. 

 

You do realize I love Tiger, I am just a realist.  He won yes, by getting the ball in the hole with the fewest shots, but he also got gifted the win by Molinari and Koepka choking.  A win is a win though but I mentioned all of this to show that these guys today can hang with Tiger, and I would even go so far as to say, many of them could hang with him back in the 90s.  That is a whole different discussion though that has to do with people downplaying the talent that today's players have. Logic dictates that with the increase in money and popularity of a sport, more and more talent will come out of the general population attracted to the sport.  That I believe is what has largely happened, as well as the distance arms race due to how helpful being a great driver of the ball can be (as it has always been).

Edited October 20, 2020 by clevited

[milesgiles]

5 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Do you realize you F'd with your own logic?  

 

-Drive is easiest club to hit.

-JT is a hugely successful pro golfer, and struggles at times to hit his driver and it goes way offline.

-Phil and Tiger, who supposedly have amazing skills hit their drivers all over the place, especially when they go after one at all.

- You can conclude therefore, either JT,  Phil and Tiger are horribly untalented golfers that can't hit the easiest club in the bag that practically hits itself, or that the driver is still a hugely difficult club to hit well.  

 

Put those same swings on a persimmon see what happens 

[mahonie]

9 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Do you realize you F'd with your own logic?  

 

-Drive is easiest club to hit.

-JT is a hugely successful pro golfer, and struggles at times to hit his driver and it goes way offline.

-Phil and Tiger, who supposedly have amazing skills hit their drivers all over the place, especially when they go after one at all.

- You can conclude therefore, either JT,  Phil and Tiger are horribly untalented golfers that can't hit the easiest club in the bag that practically hits itself, or that the driver is still a hugely difficult club to hit well.  

The modern players are not as talented as you think they are...period.

[hammersia]

4 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

You do realize I love Tiger, I am just a realist.  He won yes, by getting the ball in the hole with the fewest shots, but he also got gifted the win by Molinari and Koepka choking.  A win is a win though but I mentioned all of this to show that these guys today can hang with Tiger, and I would even go so far as to say, many of them could hang with him back in the 90s.  That is a whole different discussion though that has to do with people downplaying the talent that today's players have. Logic dictates that with the increase in money and popularity of a sport, more and more talent will come out of the general population attracted to the sport.  That I believe is what has largely happened, as well as the distance arms race due to how helpful being a great driver of the ball can be (as it has always been).

No, I’m not having it that Molinari “choked”. He did what hundreds of others have done over the years on 12, was five yards short, and clipped a single branch hanging out on 15. 

[clevited]

1 minute ago, milesgiles said:

 

Put those same swings on a persimmon see what happens 

 

They are talented golfers, they would all adapt and also find the perfect persimmon club to match their swing or their tweaked swing.

 

  

 

[hammersia]

4 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

They are talented golfers, they would all adapt and also find the perfect persimmon club to match their swing or their tweaked swing.

 

  

 

But I’m sure that’s with modern balls as well. Huge difference compared to the featheries I used to play with. 

[clevited]

2 minutes ago, mahonie said:

The modern players are not as talented as you think they are...period.

 

How much more leisure time do people have today vs back in Jack or even Tiger's day?  I would argue way more, which allows many more kids that do take up the game, ample hours to get as good as possible at every facet of the game.  Just something to think about.

 

Also, you have no way to prove what you just said whatsoever.  I at least have some evidence to the contrary that I think adequately shows they do have as much or more talent/skill than many golfers of the past.  Hand eye coordination, strength, emotional stability, green reading, scrambling, confidence, clutch in the moment.  Lots of these guys have it, and not to mention, can hit a stinger better than Tiger himself.

[Dr. Block]

2 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

You do realize I love Tiger, I am just a realist.  He won yes, buy getting the ball in the hole with the fewest shots, but he also got gifted the win by Molinari and Koepka choking.  A win is a win though but I mentioned all of this to show that these guys today can hang with Tiger, and I would even go so far as to say, many of them could hang with him back in the 90s.  That is a whole different discussion though that has to do with people downplaying the talent that today's players have. Logic dictates that with the increase in money and popularity of a sport, more and more talent will come out of the general population attracted to the sport.  That I believe is what has largely happened, as well as the distance arms race due to how helpful being a great driver of the ball can be (as it has always been).

Hey, its the back nine at Augusta in the final round of the masters.  It takes a particular set of skills to cope with it.  Old school, shot-shaping skills.. and exemplary strategy.  I don't recall anything looking like a gift.  I do recall seeing a legend with a fused spine answering the bell and a handful of others not being able to hack it.  Maybe that's what you mean.

 

Modern players dominate the game you prefer and enjoy because it's all they've known growing up.  Good for them.  I take nothing from them, what they can do is impressive.  It's my opinion none of them will have the mastery to dominate though - not at historic levels.  Not from their paint by numbers skills to their massively stressed joints.      

[clevited]

Just now, hammersia said:

But I’m sure that’s with modern balls as well. Huge difference compared to the featheries I used to play with. 

 

Not nearly as much as you think.  I would love Titleist thought to remake a limited edition batch for nostalgia.  Any evidence you see to the contrary these days is bunk.  20+ year old wound balls don't hold up.  They shrink, lose weight and lose major elasticity.  Closest I have seen to almost like new performance is Rick Shiels pro 90 ball.  (don't forget, there was a pro 100 ball that would have been that much better for a high speed swinger.)

[milesgiles]

7 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

They are talented golfers, they would all adapt and also find the perfect persimmon club to match their swing or their tweaked swing.

 

  

 

 

Under no pressure, on a range, his best carry is 275, less than 300 total. That’s where golf needs to be

[mahonie]

2 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

How much more leisure time do people have today vs back in Jack or even Tiger's day?  I would argue way more, which allows many more kids that do take up the game, ample hours to get as good as possible at every facet of the game.  Just something to think about.

 

Also, you have no way to prove what you just said whatsoever.  I at least have some evidence to the contrary that I think adequately shows they do have as much or more talent/skill than many golfers of the past.  Hand eye coordination, strength, emotional stability, green reading, scrambling, confidence, clutch in the moment.  Lots of these guys have it, and not to mention, can hit a stinger better than Tiger himself.

Yet Tiger still trashed them all.."

[Dr. Block]

1 minute ago, clevited said:

 

Not nearly as much as you think.  I would love Titleist thought to remake a limited edition batch for nostalgia.  Any evidence you see to the contrary these days is bunk.  20+ year old wound balls don't hold up.  They shrink, lose weight and lose major elasticity.  Closest I have seen to almost like new performance is Rick Shiels pro 90 ball.  (don't forget, there was a pro 100 ball that would have been that much better for a high speed swinger.)

Now we are seeing eye to eye.  I would also love for some company to remake the wound balata for those of us that enjoy the occasional round with their vintage bags.  Anything you can grab off ebay these days is about 40 compression and only good for wedge shots.    

 

The 90 vs 100 compression wasn't much of a difference really.  Mostly feel.  I recall many pro's preferring 90 compression over the 100 for the better feel. 

[clevited]

11 minutes ago, hammersia said:

No, I’m not having it that Molinari “choked”. He did what hundreds of others have done over the years on 12, was five yards short, and clipped a single branch hanging out on 15. 

 

Choked, failed, screwed up?  Call it what you want, Molinari lost it.  Tiger still had to execute shots, don't get me wrong, he won, but he got help for sure.  I was hoping it would go neck and neck the whole way, but such is the game of golf right?

[clevited]

3 minutes ago, mahonie said:

Yet Tiger still trashed them all.."

 

When?

[mahonie]

1 minute ago, clevited said:

 

When?

Errr...Augusta...defending champion in 4 weeks...what we’ve been talking about the last half hour...ring any bells?

[hammersia]

4 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Choked, failed, screwed up?  Call it what you want, Molinari lost it.  Tiger still had to execute shots, don't get me wrong, he won, but he got help for sure.  I was hoping it would go neck and neck the whole way, but such is the game of golf right?

Nope. Spieth choked. Norman choked. Floyd and Hoch choked. 
 

Not Molinari. This isn’t a Ryder Cup thing is it?