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Driver.....head/shaft/ball.....lower launch/more spin?


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If you have two of the same lofts and the same overall weight in two different Drivers heads  .... will CG location produce different launch and spin numbers with the same shaft and grip?  Seems like loft = spin and if CG location changes (lowered) , so does effective (dynamic) loft increase = more loft and spin, no? I’m not looking for higher launch, only higher spin. I’d like lower launch and higher spin if possible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I launch the ball High (around 16*) and spin the ball low (17-1900) when my loft is set at 7.5*.    I like the shaft, grip, head and overall weight of the club, but wondering if I’d be better served with a head that has a different CG location. My current driver is a Ping G410 lst.  If I were to get the G410 plus, and play the same shaft/Grip/ and weight in the head, will it change my launch and spin?  I’m assuming if it does, they won’t be independent but connected .... ie slightly higher launch and slightly higher spin.  I’m not looking for a higher launch, just a bit more spin. I have changed balls, but thinking of going from the Bridgestone BX to a higher spin ball (Mizuno RB tour X) my ball speed is between 164-168mph generally. I love the Aldila Xtorsion Copper 60TX I have, but wondering if the Green would give me a bit lower launch with the same feel, or is it a more loft = more spin issue? 


I have a mid/late to late release ...... 3.5 on the Mizuno shaft optimizer (at least with a 7 iron)  if I remember correctly. With a moderate Tempo and transition.  I currently have an injury so I’m unable to hit balls (I woke up with my shoulder killing me, and it’s been that way for over a week. If I move it 90* I have a lot of pain. It hurts terribly in my backswing, but not followthrough) I thinks it’s a slight tear in my rotator cuff, getting older sucks!  😞 

 

Im hoping the ball change will be enough. All my past launch

Monitor numbers have been with a Taylormade TP5x or Bridgestone BX. I have hit some Bridgestone BXS with irons on a GC quad and Trackman when getting fit for new irons, and they spun much more than the new Precept range balls they had, but didn’t get to hit my Driver to see how much difference there was. I have played a round with the BXS and they seem better than the BX anyways! 

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Short Answer yes.  The driver head has a way bigger influence on launch and spin than the shaft (Grip has nothing to do with it).  Assuming ball speed, angle of attack, and driver lofts are constant,

Thanks  exactly what I was looking for! 

I feel like the BXS is a change in the right direction from what I saw out on the course, but I lofted up to 8* in the flat setting as well. I haven’t looked at the numbers in the GC Quad or a Trackma

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Short Answer yes.  The driver head has a way bigger influence on launch and spin than the shaft (Grip has nothing to do with it).  Assuming ball speed, angle of attack, and driver lofts are constant, you will get different spin characteristics depending on the head's COG.  For example A Ping G400 Max will generally give you more spin than a TM SLDR if both had the same lofts.

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10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft
1999 Ben Hogan Apex Blades (3-PW) with stock Apex 4 Steel Shafts
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts
Taylormade ATV wedges in 54 and 58 degrees with stock steel shafts
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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2 minutes ago, cgasucks said:

Short Answer yes.  The driver head has a way bigger influence on launch and spin than the shaft (Grip has nothing to do with it).  Assuming ball speed, angle of attack, and driver lofts are constant, you will get different spin characteristics depending on the head's COG.  For example A Ping G400 Max will generally give you more spin than a TM SLDR if both had the same lofts.


thanks! 👍

 

With the increase in COG that increases spin, is that because it’s  increased effective (dynamic) loft as well? Can they be independent, or are they connected? Seems like they are always connected to one another. 

 


 

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4 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:


thanks! 👍

 

With the increase in COG that increases spin, is that because it’s  increased effective (dynamic) loft as well? Can they be independent, or are they connected? Seems like they are always connected to one another. 

 


 

If you have 2 driver heads with the same loft (static and dynamic) you will get more spin if the COG is further back and more MOI which results in more forgiveness.

 

This chart will explain it a little better.

 

cg-quads-1.gif

10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft
1999 Ben Hogan Apex Blades (3-PW) with stock Apex 4 Steel Shafts
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts
Taylormade ATV wedges in 54 and 58 degrees with stock steel shafts
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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I’d try a ball change before changing your driver if you like your current driver... you don’t need to add a ton of spin, so moving to the bxs could be enough of a change.

As of 1/24/21

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with RipX

13 Degree Adams Speedline with Aldila Alpha 

18 Degree Adams A12 with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5 iron Sub70 639 CB with S400

6-GW Adams CMB with Project X 6.0

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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20 minutes ago, Myherobobhope said:

I’d try a ball change before changing your driver if you like your current driver... you don’t need to add a ton of spin, so moving to the bxs could be enough of a change.

I feel like the BXS is a change in the right direction from what I saw out on the course, but I lofted up to 8* in the flat setting as well. I haven’t looked at the numbers in the GC Quad or a Trackman yet, and since my shoulders is messed up, on top of living in Massachusetts, I think it will be a while before I get out again. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

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11 minutes ago, Drivingrangehero said:

I feel like the BXS is a change in the right direction from what I saw out on the course, but I lofted up to 8* in the flat setting as well. I haven’t looked at the numbers in the GC Quad or a Trackman yet, and since my shoulders is messed up, on top of living in Massachusetts, I think it will be a while before I get out again. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

I’m with you... I’m completely overhauling my putting while winter ends and i recover from a back injury...

 

it’ll be an interesting few first round for sure!

As of 1/24/21

9 Callaway Mavrk Sub Zero with RipX

13 Degree Adams Speedline with Aldila Alpha 

18 Degree Adams A12 with Proforce V2

4 Utility Sub70 699u 22 degree Proforce V2

5 iron Sub70 639 CB with S400

6-GW Adams CMB with Project X 6.0

Sub70 286 54

Sub70 JB Low Bounce 58

SeeMore milled Tri-Mallet fit and built at SeeMore 

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1 hour ago, Drivingrangehero said:

Thanks 

exactly what I was looking for! 

Agreed on all above and the ball test. The farther back the CG, the more dynamic loft as it tries to align with the shaft axis.  Adding gear effect:  The higher the CG the more it will gear higher backspin, the lower the CG the lower the spin.  BUT strike is king, and strike varies more than low vs high CG positions in driver heads.  From mgs's 2019 CG report, all heads tested only varied CG about 5mm in height.  The tested 410 LST vs Plus were basically the same CG height from face center and from neutral axis:

20210123_110545.jpg.9807ef6d8fe6a2f3ee0f09bc7dd346de.jpg

20210123_110707.jpg.2bbc4b5c91b1eb9b8236a0a833ddac28.jpg

D Adams XTD, 70M4X 3W TEE CBX, HZBk75S 5W Titleist 915F, D+80X

3I Srixon Z 545 4H Adams S 9031 6I-PW Mizuno MP-54, C Taper Lite X

GW Nike VPC, Tour V X 54 60 Cleveland CBX, DG S300 Cure CX3

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2 hours ago, Drivingrangehero said:


thanks! 👍

 

With the increase in COG that increases spin, is that because it’s  increased effective (dynamic) loft as well? Can they be independent, or are they connected? Seems like they are always connected to one another. 

 


 

The reason is vertical gear effects. Different cgs will produce more or less vertical gear effects on where its struck

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43 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

The reason is vertical gear effects. Different cgs will produce more or less vertical gear effects on where its struck

I see this in practice. My low on the face gets a lower launch, higher spin maybe 11-12.5* and 27-2900 rpm’s my high on the face strikes are 16.5-18* and 900-1300 rpm’s. 
I can’t remember the last time I’ve heeled one, and since I’ve shortened my shaft to 44.25 I find the center of the face with less MM disparity, but the occasional high toe is sub 1000rpm .... maybe  600-800rpms 

 

Ball speed on low miss isn’t a huge drop, but high on the face is 10mph + and minus 600 rpm’s..... works out if you are in a vacuum on a GC Quad, but real life with 10-15 mph breeze, not so much!

Edited by Drivingrangehero
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