JGS and the new Course Condition Adjustment (CCA) calculation

[tiger1873]

Any of you who follows JGS rankings should be aware of the new Course Condition Adjustment Calculation.  It can adjust the course ratings up and down.

 

I tried to contact JGS and get a clear way of calculations or at least a better understanding but all I get is Crickets.  So I can only guess how it works.  I wondering if others see the same thing as me.

 

This does not seem to effected by weather in itself but the calculation seems to be based on how the field scores relative to the course 

 

This is pure speculation but I noticed that when tournaments are submitted and before they actually are calculated int the ratings they have no adjustments. This leads me to believe weather has nothing to do it.  I also noticed you can have multiple windy days and one day will have adjustment another may be either up or down. The difference is basically that some ranked players did better that day. 

 

At first I thought this was a great change now I am not sure as I think the net result is this may  actually be biased against kids who are improving and climbing the rankings.  I guess it will eventually work out.  It just seems like this and some other things they done lately don't make a lot sense.

Edited February 3, 2021 by tiger1873

[Pinewood Golfer]

This is a great change. It’s not a weather adjustment. It’s purely an adjustment that compares actual scores to expected scores based upon the players’ differential prior to the tournament relative to the Course rating. 
 

scores can be out of line (higher or lower) relative to course rating for a number of reasons. Some tourney directors intentionally turn in yardages longer than what’s played. This will eliminate the benefit of that. Some courses haven’t been rerated in decades. This will incorporate that. Some tourneys are played in difficult conditions (wind, temp, rain, rough, pins). This will account for that. Some tourneys are set up super easy and this will account for that. 
 

it’s a great change

[jkpgolf]

I'm not convinced. It seems to helped worse players. They have a bad day and they don't get dinged for it. We'll see. Time will tell. 

[tiger1873]

On 2/5/2021 at 10:11 PM, jkpgolf said:

I'm not convinced. It seems to helped worse players. They have a bad day and they don't get dinged for it. We'll see. Time will tell. 

 

I agree completely with what you are saying. It seems like the changes JGS has done in the last few years really has helped the worse players and not the better players.

 

There is no way kids who play US Kids should ever outrank kids who play in AJGA events.  That is a big flaw in rankings. Also the better the event the more likelihood you will see players improve their game because they been working hard prior to a big event.

 

Time will tell but it does seem like JGS is losing it's importance a bit.

[Pinewood Golfer]

On 2/8/2021 at 8:56 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

I agree completely with what you are saying. It seems like the changes JGS has done in the last few years really has helped the worse players and not the better players.

 

There is no way kids who play US Kids should ever outrank kids who play in AJGA events.  That is a big flaw in rankings. Also the better the event the more likelihood you will see players improve their game because they been working hard prior to a big event.

 

Time will tell but it does seem like JGS is losing it's importance a bit.

What examples do you have to support this “feeling”?

 

and there is no LESS valid ranking system than AJGA. They cherry pick their own events, add about another 6-10 to that, and then say they’re identifying the best golfers. 
 

the AJGA rankings have definitely fallen in importance. Go look at the major independent tournaments and the rankings they use for entry. Many don’t even consider AJGA. Almost all consider JGS and Golfweek. 
 

it’s a shame Golfweek won’t include more events from a more level geographic dispersion because their methodology is perfect. 

[tiger1873]

42 minutes ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

What examples do you have to support this “feeling”?

 

and there is no LESS valid ranking system than AJGA. They cherry pick their own events, add about another 6-10 to that, and then say they’re identifying the best golfers. 
 

the AJGA rankings have definitely fallen in importance. Go look at the major independent tournaments and the rankings they use for entry. Many don’t even consider AJGA. Almost all consider JGS and Golfweek. 
 

it’s a shame Golfweek won’t include more events from a more level geographic dispersion because their methodology is perfect. 

 

To me it seems like JGS was a gold standard for rankings and getting into better tournaments a few years ago. 

 

I think it still helps but kids rankings are all over the place lately and i am not seeing too many tournaments that you need to worry about it much. 

 

my kids are not old enough for college recruiting so can’t comment on if it matters there. But I suspect if you post low scores that will be what they care more the. Actual rank.

 

 

[tiger1873]

I should add when I say I see rankings all over the place I am talking about girls and the fact that JGS rankings seem to have very little relevance to how the players will place.

 

A few years ago if a girl was ranking 500-1000  you would almost never see anyone above 1000 that would beat that player. Now it seems like it really doesn't matter the ranking a girl who is 500 might be behind a bunch of girls who over 1000.  

 

I know rankings don't matter and determine score but the kids with a higher rank just seemed to have more Skills then the other players.  That doesn't seem to be the case so much anymore.

[leezer99]

Rankings are BS @tiger1873

 

[heavy_hitter]

17 hours ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

What examples do you have to support this “feeling”?

 

and there is no LESS valid ranking system than AJGA. They cherry pick their own events, add about another 6-10 to that, and then say they’re identifying the best golfers. 
 

the AJGA rankings have definitely fallen in importance. Go look at the major independent tournaments and the rankings they use for entry. Many don’t even consider AJGA. Almost all consider JGS and Golfweek. 
 

it’s a shame Golfweek won’t include more events from a more level geographic dispersion because their methodology is perfect. 

 

 

I agree.  The AJGA Rolex Rankings honestly mean nothing.

 

AJGA is still important for boy's.  Not at all important for girl's.

[Pinewood Golfer]

18 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

I should add when I say I see rankings all over the place I am talking about girls and the fact that JGS rankings seem to have very little relevance to how the players will place.

 

A few years ago if a girl was ranking 500-1000  you would almost never see anyone above 1000 that would beat that player. Now it seems like it really doesn't matter the ranking a girl who is 500 might be behind a bunch of girls who over 1000.  

 

I know rankings don't matter and determine score but the kids with a higher rank just seemed to have more Skills then the other players.  That doesn't seem to be the case so much anymore.

I’ll grant one point on JGS. The fact that (a) they discontinued rankings for almost 3 months last year and (b) many juniors played a reduced schedule due to covid has resulted in an inordinate number of juniors with very few events having rankings much higher than they may would be had they played a full schedule. 
 

with that being said, once the new JGS methodology has had a year to run its full course it will be the gold standard. It’s methodology still won’t be as good as Golfweek but it will be a solid methodology with the most comprehensive database of events included. 

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

I’ll grant one point on JGS. The fact that (a) they discontinued rankings for almost 3 months last year and (b) many juniors played a reduced schedule due to covid has resulted in an inordinate number of juniors with very few events having rankings much higher than they may would be had they played a full schedule. 
 

with that being said, once the new JGS methodology has had a year to run its full course it will be the gold standard. It’s methodology still won’t be as good as Golfweek but it will be a solid methodology with the most comprehensive database of events included. 

 

 

I hope you are correct. I do like Golfweek a lot better with how they do things just wish they had more tournaments listed. 

 

 

Edited February 10, 2021 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

3 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

I agree.  The AJGA Rolex Rankings honestly mean nothing.

 

AJGA is still important for boy's.  Not at all important for girl's.

 

Rankings are important. Even if no one cares it nice to see your kid move up the rankings. If nothing else it's validation things are working.

 

 A  parents of juniors put short term rankings above long term development that is not a good thing.

[Pinewood Golfer]

23 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Rankings are important. Even if no one cares it nice to see your kid move up the rankings. If nothing else it's validation things are working.

 

 A  parents of juniors put short term rankings above long term development that is not a good thing.

The problem with AJGA’s rankings is that it forces you to play AJGA events to be ranked. The problem with playing AJGA events is that, unless you are elite, you have to play AJGA qualifiers to stockpile enough stars to play multiple AJGA events. 
 

it is indescribably stupid how AJGA allocates stars to non-AJGA events compared to how they allocate stars to their won events and qualifiers. 
 

AJGA is in it for AJGA and no one else

[tiger1873]

1 hour ago, Pinewood Golfer said:

The problem with AJGA’s rankings is that it forces you to play AJGA events to be ranked. The problem with playing AJGA events is that, unless you are elite, you have to play AJGA qualifiers to stockpile enough stars to play multiple AJGA events. 
 

it is indescribably stupid how AJGA allocates stars to non-AJGA events compared to how they allocate stars to their won events and qualifiers. 
 

AJGA is in it for AJGA and no one else

 

 I understand what you are saying but the reality is with AJGA is I seen kids with no stars qualify for an event and then turn around and do well enough to get an exemptions by doing well in the event.   So it's not that hard to get into the events if you can play. 

 

Chasing AJGA performance stars is a not really a good use of resources. 

 

For Boys I would expect you need to break par and girls need to break 75 to even be close to being competitive. Everyone else is just playing a round to say they play in AJGA and honestly they might be better off playing something else.

 

 

 

 

[heavy_hitter]

On 2/11/2021 at 1:50 PM, Pinewood Golfer said:

The problem with AJGA’s rankings is that it forces you to play AJGA events to be ranked. The problem with playing AJGA events is that, unless you are elite, you have to play AJGA qualifiers to stockpile enough stars to play multiple AJGA events. 
 

it is indescribably stupid how AJGA allocates stars to non-AJGA events compared to how they allocate stars to their won events and qualifiers. 
 

AJGA is in it for AJGA and no one else

The star system is really really bad.  It honestly doesn’t make a lot of sense in how they are distributed.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 2/8/2021 at 9:56 AM, tiger1873 said:

 

I agree completely with what you are saying. It seems like the changes JGS has done in the last few years really has helped the worse players and not the better players.

 

There is no way kids who play US Kids should ever outrank kids who play in AJGA events.  That is a big flaw in rankings. Also the better the event the more likelihood you will see players improve their game because they been working hard prior to a big event.

 

Time will tell but it does seem like JGS is losing it's importance a bit.

It happened in prior years.  Kids playing in US Kids 2 day events at 6000 yards out rank or nearby kids playing 7000+ kids.

 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 2/3/2021 at 9:26 AM, tiger1873 said:

Any of you who follows JGS rankings should be aware of the new Course Condition Adjustment Calculation.  It can adjust the course ratings up and down.

 

I tried to contact JGS and get a clear way of calculations or at least a better understanding but all I get is Crickets.  So I can only guess how it works.  I wondering if others see the same thing as me.

 

This does not seem to effected by weather in itself but the calculation seems to be based on how the field scores relative to the course 

 

This is pure speculation but I noticed that when tournaments are submitted and before they actually are calculated int the ratings they have no adjustments. This leads me to believe weather has nothing to do it.  I also noticed you can have multiple windy days and one day will have adjustment another may be either up or down. The difference is basically that some ranked players did better that day. 

 

At first I thought this was a great change now I am not sure as I think the net result is this may  actually be biased against kids who are improving and climbing the rankings.  I guess it will eventually work out.  It just seems like this and some other things they done lately don't make a lot sense.

Of course you contacted them. 🙂

[Noles]

We are considering completely bagging AJGA this year.  So few opportunities to get stars up here and conflicts between events make it feel like it isn't even worth it.  

[heavy_hitter]

I reluctantly joined.  Going to do some qualifiers and if he makes it great, if not that is OK too.

[MyShortGameSucks]

8 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

I reluctantly joined.  Going to do some qualifiers and if he makes it great, if not that is OK too.

Same here - my son has 20 stars so which gets him into nothing around here.  He just verbally committed for 2022 so I think maybe just play state and New England/NY tourneys.

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 3/6/2021 at 7:43 PM, MyShortGameSucks said:

Same here - my son has 20 stars so which gets him into nothing around here.  He just verbally committed for 2022 so I think maybe just play state and New England/NY tourneys.

Same here.  Not leaving the state this year.  Son is a 2021 and just verbally committed to a Div 2 school.  We plan to play a lot of casual rounds together again.  High school season just started for him, so that goes until May.  He is playing Junior golf until July and then shutting it down.  Last tournament will be the first he ever played in.