Tsi 3 wood lofted up vs 4 wood neutral?

[hardcaliber]

Just want to make sure I have this correct.  I can loft up a titleist 3 wood to 16.5 (same loft as stock 4 wood) but the independent lie adjustment allows the ball flight to stay neutral?  

 

I'm looking to play something in the 16-17 degree loft range but I like the bigger head of the 3 wood.  I'm thinking if I loft up the 3 wood and add some weight, I'll essentially create a 4 wood with a bigger head and I can still independently adjust fade/draw bias to suit?

Edited August 3, 2021 by hardcaliber

[RobS]

In concept, you can loft up the Titleist but keep the flight neutral.  Lofting up will cause the clubface to sole naturally closed so you need to be conscious of setting the club face square at address to keep the flight neutral.  One potential downside to lofting up a fairway is that it raises the leading edge in the square position slightly and that can contribute to low strikes on the face which are a killer when hitting a fairway wood off the deck.  The TSi fairways are really nice but I'd look at some other options if you want a 3w size head in the 16-17* range.  The Epic Speed 4w at 175cc is the same size as the TSi3 3w or if you want to go even bigger, the SIM2 Max 3HL at 190cc.

[Doyouevenblade]

Is the tsi wood lofted at 16.5 stock not the natural choice? 

 

I could only find limited info about the CC of Titleist fairway heads, so I don't know if it is smaller (tsi3). 

[hardcaliber]

2 hours ago, Doyouevenblade said:

Is the tsi wood lofted at 16.5 stock not the natural choice? 

 

I could only find limited info about the CC of Titleist fairway heads, so I don't know if it is smaller (tsi3). 

The 16.5 loft 4 wood looks like its 35 cc smaller based on specs I saw on retailer website

 

 

[hardcaliber]

4 hours ago, RobS said:

In concept, you can loft up the Titleist but keep the flight neutral.  Lofting up will cause the clubface to sole naturally closed so you need to be conscious of setting the club face square at address to keep the flight neutral.  One potential downside to lofting up a fairway is that it raises the leading edge in the square position slightly and that can contribute to low strikes on the face which are a killer when hitting a fairway wood off the deck.  The TSi fairways are really nice but I'd look at some other options if you want a 3w size head in the 16-17* range.  The Epic Speed 4w at 175cc is the same size as the TSi3 3w or if you want to go even bigger, the SIM2 Max 3HL at 190cc.

 

Thanks for the great response.  I think you are right, might be better just to look elsewhere.  I really wish Callaway still had adjustable hosel in the fairways, especially because I think they have the best adapter in the business.

[Stuart_G]

15 hours ago, hardcaliber said:

Just want to make sure I have this correct.  I can loft up a titleist 3 wood to 16.5 (same loft as stock 4 wood) but the independent lie adjustment allows the ball flight to stay neutral? 

 

No.   With Titleist adapter the lie angle adjustment is independent of the loft, but the face angle adjustment is not.  The Face angle will still change (close when lofting up) and it's the face angle change that is the largest source of bias that occurs from the hosel setting changes.   Lie angle accounts for only a small percentage of the potential bias from hosel adjustments.

 

Some people, who are not that sensitive to face angle changes, can compensate to some degree by adjusting the face orientation at address.  But that's a vast over simplification.  It's not always that easy.  The face angle change will change the angle between the head and the shaft which creates a different visual at address that no amount of rotation can change.   Some people are still sensitive to that and it can still effect their swing and ball flight results.

 

The good news is that demo'ing the club with the higher setting is all that it usually takes to determine if it will be a problem or not.

Edited August 4, 2021 by Stuart_G

[hardcaliber]

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

No.   With Titleist adapter the lie angle adjustment is independent of the loft, but the face angle adjustment is not.  The Face angle will still change (close when lofting up) and it's the face angle change that is the largest source of bias that occurs from the hosel setting changes.   Lie angle accounts for only a small percentage of the potential bias from hosel adjustments.

 

Some people, who are not that sensitive to face angle changes, can compensate to some degree by adjusting the face orientation at address.  But that's a vast over simplification.  It's not always that easy.  The face angle change will change the angle between the head and the shaft which creates a different visual at address that no amount of rotation can change.   Some people are still sensitive to that and it can still effect their swing and ball flight results.

 

The good news is that demo'ing the club with the higher setting is all that it usually takes to determine if it will be a problem or not.

 

Thank you so much for the informative post! I had been under the mistaken impression that loft and left/right directional bias could be adjusted completely independently.

 

Does this info hold true for the callaway adapter as well? 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, hardcaliber said:

 

Thank you so much for the informative post! I had been under the mistaken impression that loft and left/right directional bias could be adjusted completely independently.

 

Does this info hold true for the callaway adapter as well? 

 

It's actually understandable since most marketing seems to focus on the lie angle for left/right bias adjustment.  Face angle changes tend to be ignored because it can potentially get confusing or seem contrary to what the "loft" adjustments are marketed to do.

 

It's an inherent relationship that can't be avoided by anything they could do to the adapter.  Adjusting loft at the hosel (regardless of whether it's via an adapter or just bending the hosel) will always change the face angle.   Some companies have tried to tweak the design of the sole to help mitigate the changes (like the cobra smart pad) but it can't completely counter it.  The old TM sole plate (R11 -> R1)  was probably the closest thing to a "fix" that was ever available but I don't see that coming back any time soon.

 

[naws-golfer]

ive gone to a tsi2 5 wood, 18*  turned down to flat, and 17.25* face sits just barely open, and i perfect for what i need.