Dr Kwon

[BabyCarrot]

Has anyone bought a spool of rope yet and selling 7ft strands? Please PM me if you are.

[Duffer Mark]

My apologies. I watched this video this morning - the new one with audio. He also swings a kettle bell and seems to have trouble not implementing an arm swing. 

 

[nikeblades00]

1 hour ago, BabyCarrot said:

Has anyone bought a spool of rope yet and selling 7ft strands? Please PM me if you are.

They sell rope at home Depot and Lowes by the foot. Probably less than $10.

[Nels55]

We have had a bit of discussion of Dr. Kwon vs. Larry Rinker / Wright Balance in this thread.  Watching Dr. Kwon's videos I am starting to believe that there is not really all that much difference in the students swings from what Larry Rinker might teach.  Kwon definitely does not teach the kind of positional stuff the Rinker says his teachers messed him up with when he was on tour.  Huge lag and hips way open at impact and so forth.  

 

Here is a look at a swing of a Kwon student who I am quite certain would be classified Upper Core by Rinker:

 

Looks a lot like Upper Core, shoulders still closed and hips square.  So I think that Rinker and Dr. Kwon would actually have more in common then I might have thought at first glance.  LOL Kwon's method is definitely a lot simpler for me to grasp and I don't have to be tested to determine what core I am in order to do the right drills.

[glk]

2 hours ago, Nels55 said:

We have had a bit of discussion of Dr. Kwon vs. Larry Rinker / Wright Balance in this thread.  Watching Dr. Kwon's videos I am starting to believe that there is not really all that much difference in the students swings from what Larry Rinker might teach.  Kwon definitely does not teach the kind of positional stuff the Rinker says his teachers messed him up with when he was on tour.  Huge lag and hips way open at impact and so forth.  

 

Here is a look at a swing of a Kwon student who I am quite certain would be classified Upper Core by Rinker:

 

Looks a lot like Upper Core, shoulders still closed and hips square.  So I think that Rinker and Dr. Kwon would actually have more in common then I might have thought at first glance.  LOL Kwon's method is definitely a lot simpler for me to grasp and I don't have to be tested to determine what core I am in order to do the right drills.

Nah. Dr Kwon teaches a body driven swing.  The Rinker clip he made it clear the arms swing the body - 180* different.

 

Kwon is showing that even folks with a lifetime of arm driven swings can be taught a body driven swing - with only their current ROM being a limiting factor and their past experience since youth in developing their motion pattens.    Mr Dugan takes pretty much the entire session before he starts making a shift, turn,etc swing but he does get it and will have to continue to work on his knee and pelvis motion a lot more than others.

Edited January 7, 2022 by glk

[Nels55]

19 hours ago, glk said:

Nah. Dr Kwon teaches a body driven swing.  The Rinker clip he made it clear the arms swing the body - 180* different.

 

Kwon is showing that even folks with a lifetime of arm driven swings can be taught a body driven swing - with only their current ROM being a limiting factor and their past experience since youth in developing their motion pattens.    Mr Dugan takes pretty much the entire session before he starts making a shift, turn,etc swing but he does get it and will have to continue to work on his knee and pelvis motion a lot more than others.

Yes, you are correct on the arm driven aspect of Rinker's upper core swing vs. the body driven aspect of Dr. Kwon's teaching.  Of course for lower and mid core Rinker would teach a body driven motion.  I do think that even for upper core there are some similarities as far as the back to the target starting down and possibly the way that Kwon wants the arms to release off of the body and fire through the ball.  But as you mention there is a very large difference in the teaching. 

 

It would be very interesting to see how Mr. Dugan would do being taught by Larry Rinker vs. how he will do being taught by Kwon.  Possibly there would not be much difference in ball striking either way and maybe little improvement over the ingrained swing that he had to begin with.  Or maybe there will be a large improvement.  It would be nice to track the students progress somehow!

 

Edit:  One other similarity is that both use ground force to add power.  Rinker wants upper core players to jump up through the ball.  

Edited January 7, 2022 by Nels55

[glk]

I’m curious on if,how, or has dr kwon works in information he gets from the motor learning colleagues he mentioned.     One example, is that in motor learning versus cognitive doing it intentionally wrong can help the learning process - called Goldilocks drills.   I don’t see much in his current set of drills etc that are  in the nature of intentionally doing it wrong - of course most of the folks he is seeing are already doing it wrong to various degrees.    
 

a second item is that we are all built a bit differently and our motion experiences growing up vary widely which leads to variability in how much we would do of the shift turn shift turn pattern.   obviously some can have a more difficult time learning the motion than others and it would be interesting to hear dr kwon’s thought on this 

 

there aren’t many options to ask questions directly of dr kwon - probably the best are become his student or take his certification classes - asking questions on his ig or youtube are pretty limited.

[MK7Golf21]

From what I gather it seems ground reaction force is kind of the basis of what Kwon is teaching with the swing. Trying to maximize the ground reaction forces for your benefit of speed, therefore a more body driven swing really focusing on using the big muscles to interact with the ground instead of arms kind of dominating.

 

The step drills he uses teach this, he is trying to maximize the rotational torque for the downswing by having a long moment arm between the center of rotation (hips) and the horizontal force created in the backswing. The active backswing using the body and step drills he teaches set all this up.

 

[MPStrat]

4 hours ago, glk said:

I’m curious on if,how, or has dr kwon works in information he gets from the motor learning colleagues he mentioned.     One example, is that in motor learning versus cognitive doing it intentionally wrong can help the learning process - called Goldilocks drills.   I don’t see much in his current set of drills etc that are  in the nature of intentionally doing it wrong - of course most of the folks he is seeing are already doing it wrong to various degrees.    
 

a second item is that we are all built a bit differently and our motion experiences growing up vary widely which leads to variability in how much we would do of the shift turn shift turn pattern.   obviously some can have a more difficult time learning the motion than others and it would be interesting to hear dr kwon’s thought on this 

 

there aren’t many options to ask questions directly of dr kwon - probably the best are become his student or take his certification classes - asking questions on his ig or youtube are pretty limited.

 

This is a great question. I was also thinking about this and couldn't imagine a scenario where he didn't consult experts in this field. Motor control and its application to the golf swing has always fascinated me and there was always a lot of garbage out there. I remember a few years ago that guy Tony Luzak claimed that he "figured out the golf swing" from a motor control perspective and that it needed to be in the right hand.

[glk]

13 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

 

This is a great question. I was also thinking about this and couldn't imagine a scenario where he didn't consult experts in this field. Motor control and its application to the golf swing has always fascinated me and there was always a lot of garbage out there. I remember a few years ago that guy Tony Luzak claimed that he "figured out the golf swing" from a motor control perspective and that it needed to be in the right hand.

Someone didn’t tell shortarmgolfer.  He can hit it out past 250.  One of my favorite swings. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-223cUDXqj/?hl=en

 

 

 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, glk said:

Someone didn’t tell shortarmgolfer.  He can hit it out past 250.  One of my favorite swings. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/B-223cUDXqj/?hl=en

 

 

 

Love that. But that doesn’t make Luzak correct that the best way for everyone to learn from a motor control standpoint is through the right hand which was his claim. 
 

 

Maybe after extensive study is done on the topic of motor learning specific to the golf swing we might be able to make definitive statements. 

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by MPStrat

[rondo01]

15 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Love that. But that doesn’t make Luzak correct that the best way for everyone to learn from a motor control standpoint is through the right hand which was his claim.

 

Maybe after extensive study is done on the topic of motor learning specific to the golf swing we might be able to make definitive statements. 

 

 

This + step drills is basically my entire winter workout. incredible kid and swing. 

[Daniel Eason]

I am loving kwon material, my speeds are up for sure.

 

You really need to sort out your knowledge if you want to ask more questions of him....he has given 4 hours of his lessons available to watch!

 

 

 

 

[glk]

55 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Love that. But that doesn’t make Luzak correct that the best way for everyone to learn from a motor control standpoint is through the right hand which was his claim. 
 

 

Maybe after extensive study is done on the topic of motor learning specific to the golf swing we might be able to make definitive statements. 

 

Huh. Shortarmgolfer certainly is not an example of learning the golf swing through the right arm just like the kid.    
 

my understanding is motor control is basically how to practice to learn a new motion.  Motor learning is the processes in the brain involved in making a motion automatic.   Kinda simplified.  
 

I should have said motor control since that is what I really heard him say but the two do go together.  My bad.

[Canada8888]

On 1/6/2022 at 2:59 PM, BabyCarrot said:

Has anyone bought a spool of rope yet and selling 7ft strands? Please PM me if you are.

at home depot they will cut it for you (using a hot device that seals the ends) and sell you 7 feet ...

[rondo01]

Great example of how focusing on forces puts the body into correct positions. Also interesting to hear Malaska relate how much energy Nicklaus put into the backswing.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by rondo01

[acekun]

1 hour ago, rondo01 said:

Great example of how focusing on forces puts the body into correct positions. Also interesting to hear Malaska relate how much energy Nicklaus put into the backswing.

 

 

Thank you for posting this video! I have been trying to find a feel like this. Even though I've seen a Malaska video in the past on pushing back the left hip before, this resonated differently where I could actually do it. Just hit into my net and this feels so much more natural to me than squat/rotate or trying to change pressure from trail side to front side. A linear shift backwards of the hips clicks more with me than thinking about a rotational move.

 

I've tried some of Dr Kwon's drills but I have no confidence that I'm doing them correctly after watching his student lessons. 

[glk]

12 hours ago, acekun said:

Thank you for posting this video! I have been trying to find a feel like this. Even though I've seen a Malaska video in the past on pushing back the left hip before, this resonated differently where I could actually do it. Just hit into my net and this feels so much more natural to me than squat/rotate or trying to change pressure from trail side to front side. A linear shift backwards of the hips clicks more with me than thinking about a rotational move.

 

I've tried some of Dr Kwon's drills but I have no confidence that I'm doing them correctly after watching his student lessons. 

Building up to the steps is easier.    Doing the band drill - which malaska has Cogorno do by holding his hands - is simple and and can get into a shift,turn,shift,turn rhythm.   Then a weight swing to feel the body doing the work.  Then a rope.    Actually this makes a nice 5 minute or so warm or do them longer and they are going start changing your pattern.      Then do the continuous  swings with maybe raising your heels or baby steps, or rope swing or weight with steps.    Lots of stuff that is easy to do correctly and check via a short video before jumping into the step drills.   And like other golf drills do tHem at a slower pace to start and build to more speed.

 

and the Haerim dance - https://www.instagram.com/p/CQ5x_5wHtD3/

 

as he has said 30 minutes a day and changes will happen.  More examples of doing drills without swinging a club. https://www.instagram.com/p/B9care2B-8U/

 

good luck.

Edited January 8, 2022 by glk

[i*windows]

love the Dr Kwon stuff, 

 

just remember keep it simple guys, dont over think it and let the forces flow.

[Daniel Eason]

 

1 hour ago, i*windows said:

love the Dr Kwon stuff, 

 

just remember keep it simple guys, dont over think it and let the forces flow.

 

Jim Sheridan is a good example of this....he was unable to get steps right....then his swing flowed like anything after an hour.

 

 

[Haroputt]

This thread has legs   Still going strong.    Maybe because in this thread the swing is taught from the legs up. 😝 Lol

 

Seriously though. With talk about GRF   Isn’t this the same subject as having a good squat in the transition discussed in these forum years ago. Using the GRF just the same. 

 

[agolfman]

I’m a week into this thread and using the good doctor’s drills:  step, weighted swings, etc.  There’s one element I’m also stressing, which is to get more depth (less lift) in the backswing and I think this is starting to really help.

 

A quick observation: doing less here is more. To really gain movement improvements I would suggest being diligent about quality of movement and not just doing a couple drills and assume that you’ve finished and are ready for a full swing at a range.

 

Dr. Kwon is definitely teaching biomechanics, but more than that, he’s showing a path toward retraining a golfer about how to change ingrained movements and instincts.  It’s as much a rewiring process as it is biomechanics. It is absolutely a “volume thing” as long as those movements are high quality.

 

Stop in front of every mirror in your house, commit to multiple times a day, and take every opportunity to ingrain the movements and you’ll see progress. There’s no short cut, so enjoy the process!

[rondo01]

1 hour ago, agolfman said:

There’s one element I’m also stressing, which is to get more depth (less lift) in the backswing and I think this is starting to really help.

im finding the same. Big turn to p3.

 

found this video with @dana dahlquisttalking pressure shifts with Josh Park; good to hear a detailed explanation of where it moves, and to listen two golf instructors obviously influenced by Kwons modeling. Entire video is great, but lots of gold starting around 21 min in. Note the preference to begin 60-40 weight on the lead side. 
 

https://www.instagram.com/jparkgolf/tv/CXSWwcal8Ie/?utm_medium=copy_link

Edited January 9, 2022 by rondo01

[Golfbeat]

After watching quite a few videos of Dr Kwon and attempting to practice what he teaches with ropes and kettlebells for the last few weeks I can say that the first results on the golf course are really encouraging. I have been notoriously bad with my driver for the last 10 years or so and have only used the 3 wood when playing tournaments. 

 

Last Friday, I hit driver in a match play tournament qualifier and have never hit my driver as straight and long. Also, my other clubs went further and with more ease and with more solid contact. My arms now feel more relaxed and seem to follow the body rather than hitting at the ball. It is early days but it is encouraging. I always had a feeling that my hips were not properly moving but I could never fix that by doing butt on the wall/chair drills or other drills. These more dynamic, rhythmic drills that Dr. Kwon teaches seem to stick in the muscle memory much better. As I said, it is early days, but I have for the first time the feeling that I am swinging rather than hitting at the ball.

Edited January 10, 2022 by Golfbeat
Grammar

[glk]

First 25-30 minutes is more of same but second half has lots of good discussion and some different drills etc.

 

 

[Simpsonia]

Interesting discussion at the very end around @1:10:00. The guy builds in some squat motion and Dr. Kwon admonishes him and says that the lowering is messing with the timing and to only focus on the up. 

[PracticeSwinger]

21 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

The guy builds in some squat motion and Dr. Kwon admonishes him and says that the lowering is messing with the timing and to only focus on the up. 

Direct relation as to why 99% of amateurs can't even come close to lifting their lead foot in the rainbow pattern just prior to impact (driver swing obviously) - like JT, Bubba, Berkshire or any long drive guys do - even when just trying to do it with an air swing... bracing for torque, but also shifting their COM not just the COP (doing so you just don't have enough force, shortest moment arm, to push back up) but very subopotimal vertical force compared to what these guys apply just prior to impact

[glk]

40 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

Interesting discussion at the very end around @1:10:00. The guy builds in some squat motion and Dr. Kwon admonishes him and says that the lowering is messing with the timing and to only focus on the up. 

My take is he was actually adding more knee flex when he was doing the step motion versus just stepping with knee already flexed and then pushing up.    When you turn to the right the left knee will flex so just step and turn versus step, flex then turn.

[MrHateCoffee]

@glk Are you no longer doing No Turn Cast?

[glk]

56 minutes ago, MrHateCoffee said:

@glk Are you no longer doing No Turn Cast?

By the time it came out I was already focused on the shift turn shift turn or recentering so that part yes.    Otherwise I regressed bit with my extension inthe backswing.   Picked up on casabella which lead me to kwon in late 2019.  I was close to signing up for one of kwon certification courses last year but never pulled the trigger - still considering it but he does advertise it for golf professionals in a variety of fields so don’t know if he considers a more general audience.

Edited January 10, 2022 by glk