Swing help

[Tfb003]

Hey guys hope I can tap into some of the knowledge in here. I have taken 1 lesson online with Monte last year where he noticed I was lacking wrist c0ck. I feel like I have some more but still don’t seem to get all the way there. I am trying to speed my arms up but they still trail a bit…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CSagan]

Pelvis moving out of wack is most glaring thing to me. It’s very lateral back and lateral through. 
 

Id hit a millions balls with a short iron and focus on right pocket going back to start the swing then left pocket back on downswing. I think monte has a thing where you imagine a rubber band connected from each hip and the ball and you stretch the right one out going back and the left one back going through. 
 

you’d be best to get some hands on lessons so they can get ya moving right in less time. 

[MonteScheinblum]

19 minutes ago, CSagan said:

Pelvis moving out of wack is most glaring thing to me. It’s very lateral back and lateral through. 
 

Id hit a millions balls with a short iron and focus on right pocket going back to start the swing then left pocket back on downswing. I think monte has a thing where you imagine a rubber band connected from each hip and the ball and you stretch the right one out going back and the left one back going through. 
 

you’d be best to get some hands on lessons so they can get ya moving right in less time. 

Agree.  Adding flex to right knee and left hip and knee pushing away from target way too much.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMFW-xPFdLf/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=
 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CMKm-_rl3vU/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

[golfarb1]

Your swing is dominated by lateral movement instead of by rotational movement 

In your back swing you sway load going high into your right hip at the top 

Going down you slide instead of rotate 

These issues have their genesis in your grip and takeaway.

Your right hand  grip is too far under  resulting in too much shoulder tilt at setup-1st still

Such shoulder tilt invariable favors a takeaway that is too inside

 

Almost immediately you start to roll your hands inside - compare the second and third still.

For the first 18 inches of your takeaway feel as though the BACK of your right hand  moves DIRECTLY BACK with ZERO movement by WRISTS or FOREARMS 

CSagans suggestion to focus on your right and left pockets is a good one . To visually emphasize these moves, empty them and pull out the inside of these pockets 

 

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by golfarb1

[Tfb003]

Thanks Sagan and Monte! I will try to work on the slide. 
 

@golfarb1 would you suggest the first 18 inches of the takeaway to move the without wrist or forearm movement to include no upcock?

 

 

[Zitlow]

You look just as good as a tour pro in your set up. Fix a couple of issues and a lot of things will fall into place. Working on setting your hands and using your right arm and hand properly will be a big step in the right direction. It won't take long to make the changes, you have a ton of potential. 

 

For efficiency your hands should be cocked as they pass your right foot. The shaft starts coming onto the plane and adds momentum for the back swing. So set em and forget em.

 

Your right hand and arm action is a little funky starting down which is easily fixed. The right elbow should uncock the hands not the other way around. It's like swinging a hammer, the elbow unfolds the hand snapping the head of the hammer into the nail. 

 

Look how far the shaft is from your head, you've already used your hands. If you were swinging a hammer you'd bend the nail by putting a weak glancing blow on it. 

 

 

His shaft is close to his head. He uses his right arm like a whip. His right elbow starts unfolding and snaps his hands into the ball squaring the face up an instant before impact. 

 

 

A minor thing, don't keep your right knee flexed as you start back let it extend so it can support your right side. You don't walk around on bent knees, when you walk you extend the knee that's supporting your weight. 

[golfarb1]

1 hour ago, Tfb003 said:

Thanks Sagan and Monte! I will try to work on the slide. 
 

@golfarb1 would you suggest the first 18 inches of the takeaway to move the without wrist or forearm movement to include no upcock?

 

 

YES, there is plenty of time to do so later

Edited June 20, 2022 by golfarb1

[Tfb003]

Anybody think this turn is looking better? I smoked this ball but feel like maybe my whole upper body is sliding forward too much.

[KMeloney]

Put your pointer on your head in your in that video. Watch how your head stays in a great spot 1/3-1/2 way through your backswing, but then you lift your head and move it toward the target from there as a result of bending into a "c" instead of turning. Watch the pros -- their heads move DOWN and AWAY from the target. It looks like it all stems from the inside, looping path of the club in your backswing, leading you to come over the top and really steepen the shaft in order to make contact with the ball. And some of that may be from your intention to lift the ball into the air instead of feeling like you're smashing down on it (you won't be) with a swing that's much more shallow and "around" you.

 

Your set up looks SO good to me in that latest video -- but then you just lift and bend instead of turning, and you don't take advantage of the great set up.

 

You definitely look to me like you're dragging the club through the ball instead of getting "behind" it and smashing it. I'd experiment with putting the ball more forward in your stance, feeling like you're making a 1/2-swing, and concentrate on turning while keeping your head well behind the ball.

 

Also, whereas I don't love all of his stuff, I think you could stand to check out Mike Bender on Instagram, and see how he wants all of his students to move their shoulders in the backswing. He has them turning their upper bodies over their trail knee, essentially (that's my layman's interpretation of the look of it). Doing anything to the extreme is usually not helpful, but for you it would be an anti-c move, and could get you "behind" the ball instead of lifting and moving ahead of it.

Edited November 15, 2022 by KMeloney
(More to add)

[Valtiel]

On 11/13/2022 at 1:24 PM, Tfb003 said:

Anybody think this turn is looking better? I smoked this ball but feel like maybe my whole upper body is sliding forward too much.

The first 2/3rds of this overall backswing move is much better, its how far out of bounds you continue going that is the problem:



Right here you getting to what would generally be considered as "fully loaded" as far as rotation/movement goes. This is a full....everything. Shoulder turn, pelvic turn, weight shift etc. There is nothing beyond this point that will result in more power or a better sequence. The problem is...



....you keep going. Even here could be *ok* if you had a good move to start down, but the fact that you've stopped rotating and have started tilting/lifting is a concern. This isn't because you need to rotate more/better, it's because you're literally at the end of the line here and there is no need to continue reaching for "more".



But you do and that's the problem. You're over-rotated to the point that it's going to be REALLY hard to get your arms back down in front of you in any kind of correct sequence. You'd have to get extremely narrow with your hands/arms by pulling the club in extremely close to have any chance for them to not get left behind at this point....



...but unfortunately you cast your arms out very wide while making an aggressive lateral move towards the target. The last frame is a very typical "stuck" out of sequence position that Monte calls the 6-8 Ballerina in where your body and arms are in two very different positions in the swing, out of sync with each other. You may have crushed this ball, but I guarantee your ability to do that consistently with this swing is lacking, and you also likely launched and spun this much higher than is optimal as a result.

Your entire backswing motion needs to stop WAY earlier than what you're currently doing and you'll need to develop the feel and body awareness to recognize when this is happening. What feels like a 50% swing to you right now is likely what most pros would consider 100%.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Valtiel

[Zitlow]

@Valtiel Good observations. 

 

@Tfb003Your arms and body are out of sync, instead of NTC try TNC. 

 

Cast

 

 

Leaning

 

 

No Lean no cast 

 

 

 

[Tfb003]

5 hours ago, Valtiel said:

 You may have crushed this ball, but I guarantee your ability to do that consistently with this swing is lacking.

Never hath truer words been spoken. I can be lights out one day and awful another. Short game has bailed me out my whole life so I am now trying to get this motion under control. 
 

Will work on shortening the backswing as well as reducing lean towards target/ keep head back through the strike. Hopefully fixing some of that will fix the cast which is likely a compensation from being out of position.

[Valtiel]

15 minutes ago, Tfb003 said:

Never hath truer words been spoken. I can be lights out one day and awful another.

It's all an optimization/fat cutting game of how much can you fit into the 1/4s that is the downswing. The pros are lean in this regard, either with solid fundamentals (your Adam Scotts, Patrick Cantlays, and Tiger Woods') or extremely well ingrained compensations for anything outside the norm (your Viktor Hovlands, Scottie Schefflers, Shane Lowrys, John Dalys etc). Sizing up whatever your "flaw" is and it's relative severity can kind of inform whether you learn the right compensation or fix the flaw. Past a certain point of severity it makes sense to just address the flaw because compensation will be just as hard if not harder to learn, and i'd say you're over that severity threshold here with swing length. Reducing the overall amount of backswing will probably feel weird at first but stick with it, because the main reason you might struggle is because your sequence will change, but just as you've learned to occasionally make good contact with a very bad sequence you can relearn in a framework that can hopefully create a better one.

[Ifelloffladder]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:24 PM, Tfb003 said:

Anybody think this turn is looking better? I smoked this ball but feel like maybe my whole upper body is sliding forward too much.

0:03 is where you should stop. Stand against a wall with your typical address. Keep your head against the wall in spot and turn your hips, knees should NATURALLY follow. Rotate your hips back and forth while your knees follow. That is to keep that body from a lateral movement which is causing you to lift your body before the backswing which you're doing to prevent you from hitting the ground at impact.

[ezra76]

I'll just share a quick drill/feel that worked for me. I stood back against a wall then bent over into address position with my butt still on the wall. I made a good connected slow motion backswing, feel the right butt cheek rotate on the wall. I reach back as far as I can and just touch the club to the wall as far back as I can with my hip and shoulder rotation maxed. 

 

So when I do my real swing I would think like I had a sticky note on the back of the clubhead. Reach back and stick it on the wall (little pause to stick it on there). The note says "the McRip is back" and from there just get the left hip out of the way and rip it.  Anyway, good luck. 

[mikpga]

Hips swaying away during back swing and probably not swaying enough forward in forward swing…

 

Allow trail leg to extend progressively from address to the top of your swing…

 

 

[Tfb003]

How is this looking? Very focused on shortening the arm swing and getting more of the steep takeaway to shallow downswing. My downswing looks way more shallow here but I still seem to be casting too much.

[KMeloney]

Why are you trying to get more steep-to-shallow? You're not getting shallow enough on the way down, so why bother trying to get more steep going back? You're fighting yourself.

[Tfb003]

I have always been told and read that being shallow (low and inside) on the way back leads to steep and OOT on the way down…

[ericg33]

You look way too bent over at set up which then leads to you moving your whole upper body back and away from the ball while early extending at the same time.  I would try standing taller and then getting your lead hip back and around (zipper drill) which should get your chest closer to the ball.  

[KMeloney]

1 hour ago, Tfb003 said:

I have always been told and read that being shallow (low and inside) on the way back leads to steep and OOT on the way down…

 

It's true that you don't want to loop the club low, back, and up, because then the tendency is to do the opposite looping coming down. But all you're doing now is making your swing plane impossibly steep. Unless you can lay the club all the way down like Matt Wolffe does by P6, then you're not going to be able to do anything else but stand up and try to make some room for the club to pass in front of you.

 

Look up Monte's "perfect backswing drill" on Instagram. Grab a club, get in front of a mirror, and try it. Notice that you need to hinge your wrist completely as the first move (you don't currently do this), have to rotate your forearms (and the face) 90° to set the club on plane as the next move (you don't do this), and then just rotate your core to move the club on the plane to the top (you don't do this, either). See in the mirror 1. that you're performing it correctly, and 2) what your feel looks like/what it feels like to be in the correct position. Right now, it looks like you're headed down a bad path.

[KMeloney]

 

If you were the right distance from the ball, the face not so closed, and if your wrist-set brought the club “back” the rest of the way, you look like you could smash the ball from here. 

[Tfb003]

Here are some recent swing videos. Hoping for some more advice. Have done FaceTime with Monte who told me that all I need to do is get the arms going. Focusing on the tiger feel of arms get to ball before hips. Certainly getting better ball speeds lately with it.
 

Wondering there is any feedback on setup or if there are backswing problems that are putting me in a position to struggle. I have been trying to get hands and club up earlier, less arm runoff which was clearly a big issue people here mentioned, and to avoid getting my left arm stuck too far to the right (arm swing illusion). 
 

Overall, I feel like I am getting under plane potentially due to starting to get the arms going better (although a long way to go) and feel like a am hitting more hooks than normal especially with driver.