Declaring unplayable when ball is not really "unplayable".

[david.c.w]

Before I get flamed, 2 things:

• Yes I know any ball can be unplayable anytime, anywhere (except in a PA)
• If this is not the right forum, please move.  Rules related but not a question of the rule itself, but rather golfer behavior.

 

Have any of you declared a ball unplayable, not because it is in a bush or a tree or something, but because the outcome of the your next shot could be very, very bad?

 

Example from my home course:  I have a 25 yard greenside bunker shot front of me.  I catch too much ball and it sails over the pin, over another bunker, and into thick rough the other side.  My next shot would be a downhill lie over a bunker to a short pin on a downhill slope.  Absolute best case is 3 more shots, and probably even 4, resulting in a triple.   It seems the best choice would be to declare the first shot unplayable, drop back in the original bunker and hope to hole out for bogey, or get up and down for a double.

 

Another example is our second hole.  If you pull the approach way left it can get the cart path and loop around and down a hill and be behind a bunch of trees with no way to play through.  Making double would be a good score 

 

I never think of the unplayable unless the ball is physically unplayable.  We normally play fourball so this does not come into play for me very often, but with stroke play club championship coming up, I would rather avoid making 10.

 

Who has made such a poor shot, that the result put you in such a bad spot that even though the ball is sitting perfectly on the grass with no interference anywhere, you decided to take an unplayable? #stymie 

Edited August 2, 2022 by david.c.w
spelling

[Krt22]

Stroke and distance is always an option with an unplayable ball, nothing wrong with that. I actually think it should be used more often in cases like those you detailed, taking your medicine and not compounding the error makes more sense than putting up a really big number

[Colin L]

35 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

I never think of the unplayable unless the ball is physically unplayable. ......

 

Then you could be denying yourself many chances of benefiting from a particularly helpful rule.

[llewol007]

By the description, you have already hit it out of the bunker and thus you cant go back and erase the shot to call an unplayable lie. 

[Habitual Flipper]

1 minute ago, llewol007 said:

By the description, you have already hit it out of the bunker and thus you cant go back and erase the shot to call an unplayable lie. 

 

He's talking about calling the subsequent shot unplayable and dropping back in the bunker. 

[llewol007]

3 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

He's talking about calling the subsequent shot unplayable and dropping back in the bunker. 

By my reading, he is not talking about the subsequent.

 

"It seems the best choice would be to declare the first shot unplayable, drop back in the original bunker"

 

[Habitual Flipper]

1 minute ago, llewol007 said:

By my reading, he is not talking about the subsequent.

 

"It seems the best choice would be to declare the first shot unplayable, drop back in the original bunker"

 

 

I will let OP clarify but I think he was referencing first shot in this sequence of subsequent shots, " ... Absolute best case is 3 more shots, and probably even 4, resulting in a triple.".

 

 

[Krt22]

3 minutes ago, llewol007 said:

By my reading, he is not talking about the subsequent.

 

"It seems the best choice would be to declare the first shot unplayable, drop back in the original bunker"

 

The first stroke already occurred, so he is taking the unplayable due to the bad result and  low percentage 2nd shot he faces. You can do that anytime you want

[llewol007]

10 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

He's talking about calling the subsequent shot unplayable and dropping back in the bunker. 

 

1 minute ago, Krt22 said:

The first stroke already occurred, so he is taking the unplayable due to the bad result and  low percentage 2nd shot he faces. You can do that anytime you want

But if he takes an unplayable he would have to drop in the same bunker he just hit into. 

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, llewol007 said:

 

But if he takes an unplayable he would have to drop in the same bunker he just hit into. 

No, he's dropping in the original bunker that he skulled it out of under penalty of stroke and distance. You always have the option to replay from the same spot

Edited August 2, 2022 by Krt22

[Habitual Flipper]

15 minutes ago, llewol007 said:

 

But if he takes an unplayable he would have to drop in the same bunker he just hit into. 

 

Deducing from the scores he has mentioned, this is a Par 3 but he also has messed up his potential scoring. 

 

Scenario 1:

 

Shot 1 - Tee shot into greenside 25 yard bunker

Shot 2 - Bunker shot, skulled over the green into the crap

Hypothetical shots 3, 4, 5 (and possibly 6) - to get in for double or triple bogey.

 

or

 

Scenario 2:

 

Shot 1 - Tee shot into greenside 25 yard bunker

Shot 2 - Bunker shot, skulled over the green into the crap

Shot 3 - Unplayable, drop back in original bunker under rule 19.2

Shot 4 - Repeat bunker shot

Shot 5 - Hole out for double

 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2022 by Habitual Flipper
Formatting

[david.c.w]

3 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

No, he's dropping in the original bunker that he skulled it out of under penalty of stroke and distance. You always have the option to replay from the same spot

 

Correct.  

[david.c.w]

2 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Scenario 1:

 

Shot 1 - Tee shot into greenside 25 yard bunker

Shot 2 - Bunker shot, skulled over the green into the crap

Hypothetical shots 3, 4, 5 (and possibly 6) to get in for double or triple bogey.

 

 

 

 

This is my scenario.  

[Habitual Flipper]

4 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

This is my scenario.  

Delete, thought I was replying to someone else.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Habitual Flipper

[david.c.w]

My question is not about the rule itself, but who here has taken an unplayable back and dropped at the original spot, when the other options stink, even if the ball is sitting in a good lie?

 

Due to mostly match play or fourball, this is a situation I am almost never in, so the strategy part of it does not cross my mind.  

[bcjim]

No need to "declare it unplayable", just replay the shot, right? You could hit it to 2 inches and elect to replay the shot if you wanted. Yes?

[david.c.w]

8 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

 

Deducing from the scores he has mentioned, this is a Par 3 but he also has messed up his potential scoring. 

 

 

 

You are correct.  I fixed in original post.  Hole out for bogey, or up and down for double.

[Krt22]

2 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

My question is not about the rule itself, but who here has taken an unplayable back and dropped at the original spot, when the other options stink, even if the ball is sitting in a good lie?

 

Due to mostly match play or fourball, this is a situation I am almost never in, so the strategy part of it does not cross my mind.  

I have once.  I smoother hooked a drive into the trees. Found the ball, had no real option at a shot without playing some circus shots and since it was a mean hook it didnt go very far in the first place, so even those circus shots wouldn't net me much. So I went back to retee 

[Habitual Flipper]

2 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

You are correct.  I fixed in original post.  Hole out for bogey, or up and down for double.

In the scenario you outlined I think I'd still play with out declaring the unplayable. I think I'd like my chances of forgetting about the pin and doing whatever possible to get third shot somewhere on the green, then two putting for double and maybe sometimes a lucky bogey 4.

 

Going back into the bunker under stroke a distance doesn't seem like it would net a better score over a hundred simulations. 

[david.c.w]

6 minutes ago, Habitual Flipper said:

In the scenario you outlined I think I'd still play with out declaring the unplayable. I think I'd like my chances of forgetting about the pin and doing whatever possible to get third shot somewhere on the green, then two putting for double and maybe sometimes a lucky bogey 4.

 

Going back into the bunker under stroke a distance doesn't seem like it would net a better score over a hundred simulations. 

 

Fair enough.   Wondering who out there has looked at a situation where they say, "I can see making 10 here.  I better go back and try that last shot again".

[sui generis]

5 minutes ago, david.c.w said:

 

Fair enough.   Wondering who out there has looked at a situation where they say, "I can see making 10 here.  I better go back and try that last shot again".

 

Easy, at my place with a front hole location on #15, a chip or a putt which goes a little too far beyond the hole will only stop rolling about 50 yards down the fairway. 

 

"Hmm, I think I'll try that one again." says the player, silently cursing Donald Ross under his breath.  😉

[Krt22]

2 minutes ago, sui generis said:

 

Easy, at my place with a front hole location on #15, a chip or a putt which goes a little too far beyond the hole will only stop rolling about 50 yards down the fairway. 

 

"Hmm, I think I'll try that one again." says the player, silently cursing Donald Ross under his breath.  😉

Which is what Phil probably should have done at Shinnecock instead of playing hockey on the green.

[david.c.w]

7 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Which is what Phil probably should have done at Shinnecock instead of playing hockey on the green.

 

That was one of the thoughts I had when making this thread....

[bcjim]

20 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Which is what Phil probably should have done at Shinnecock instead of playing hockey on the green.

Yes, and I saw that one from the edge of the green.

[jomatty]

I can’t say I’ve ever done that.  I probably should more often but it would be a severe situation that would have me taking stroke and distance with a playable ball.  I might not try to hit a good shot but just hit one off the toe somewhere on the green or try and do something that doesn’t set me up for double or triple as a most likely scenario…

[T_Golf_23]

I have tons of fescue in my course and use unplayable constantly. 
 

had one in the rescue on a steep uphill Lie. Brought it back in line like 40 yards so I was exactly at a full wedge shot I felt comfortable with hitting over some obstructions. 
 

skulled one over a green into the fescue and it was buried, took an unplayable back to original spot in the fairway and hit it 8 feet from the pin. Salvaged bogey. 
 

Unplayable is such an under utilized option….. 
 

i do love it when my competitors argue that I can’t take an unplayable or they somehow have to agree to it…. yeah buddy…. Hit out of your own pitch while your at it …. 
 

also keep in mind the abnormal lie relief rule…. Another one under utilized…. Had a guy try to tell me to suck it up and hit off a temporary compacted dirt road on the course…. 

 

[Mizunoid]

It's mental that in a game that prides itself on 'play it as it lies' you can simply say 'nah don't like this shot' and move your ball back to where it was for another go.

[Colin L]

4 hours ago, T_Golf_23 said:

 

....also keep in mind the abnormal lie relief rule…. Another one under utilized…. Had a guy try to tell me to suck it up and hit off a temporary compacted dirt road on the course…. 

 

   If by "dirt" you mean earth, then I would be another guy to tell you, in the absence of any local rule that would allow relief,   to suck it up and play your ball as it lies or take penalty relief.  

 

My copy of the Rules seems deficient, by the way.   I doesn't have an "abnormal lie relief" rule.   Perhaps I should send it back for a refund.

[Colin L]

18 minutes ago, Mizunoid said:

It's mental that in a game that prides itself on 'play it as it lies' you can simply say 'nah don't like this shot' and move your ball back to where it was for another go.

I think you are misunderstanding.  What you describe is usually known as a mulligan.

Stroke and distance does not  simply give you "another go".  It involves counting the stroke that got you into trouble and adding a penalty stroke before playing your next shot.  It comes at a cost which you have to factor in to your decision as to what's your better option - play the ball as it lies or take stroke and distance.

[T_Golf_23]

24 minutes ago, Colin L said:

   If by "dirt" you mean earth, then I would be another guy to tell you, in the absence of any local rule that would allow relief,   to suck it up and play your ball as it lies or take penalty relief.  

 

My copy of the Rules seems deficient, by the way.   I doesn't have an "abnormal lie relief" rule.   Perhaps I should send it back for a refund.

Abnormal course conditions are not part of the standard design or challenge of the course…. Conditions also verified and defined by our local golf committee and pro due to a complete course renovation and heavy construction vehicle on the course. It covers the fact that not all GUR needs to be marked by White lines in certain conditions. 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/rules/rules-2019/rules-of-golf/rule-16.html

 

https://www.golfmonthly.com/features/the-game/what-are-abnormal-course-conditions

 

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by T_Golf_23