USGA and R&A announce proposal to limit golf ball performance for elite level competition

[Titleist99]

5 hours ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

It doesn't need to be changed because the guys who get paid make the gane too easy. The everyday golfers scores haven't improved much even though everyone is a scrtach handicap and hits a 300 yard baby fade everytime on the internet.

Not only do they hit it 300 yards, but all their friends and most guys at their club hit 300 yards off the tee as well.

[Jim53]

53 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Not only do they hit it 300 yards, but all their friends and most guys at their club hit 300 yards off the tee as well.

Of the 30 or so people I have played golf with regularly for the last 20 yrs only (2) can actually hit a 300 yd drive and that was rare and even more rare if it was in the right fairway.

Most of we chumps are thrilled with a 230- 250 yd drive and that is down wind and some roll. 

And I dare say for those 65+ a 200 yd drive is thrilling. 

Its all baloney and last I checked there is already a new rule so all this thread is just something for a few very bored folks to harp on about.

 

Carry on

[AZBRONCFAN]

2 hours ago, StoutKing said:

Another bifurcation fan.  Me too

I say leave it alone as my first choice. I'd take bifurcation over punishing everyone.

[AZBRONCFAN]

1 hour ago, Titleist99 said:

Not only do they hit it 300 yards, but all their friends and most guys at their club hit 300 yards off the tee as well.

340 if they want to sling blade it out there too! Would be pro in no time if they put the effort in practicing.

[StoutKing]

2 minutes ago, Jim53 said:

Of the 30 or so people I have played golf with regularly for the last 20 yrs only (2) can actually hit a 300 yd drive and that was rare and even more rare if it was in the right fairway.

Most of we chumps are thrilled with a 230- 250 yd drive and that is down wind and some roll. 

And I dare say for those 65+ a 200 yd drive is thrilling. 

Its all baloney and last I checked there is already a new rule so all this thread is just something for a few very bored folks to harp on about.

 

Carry on

Another reason to bifurcate.  I'm in.  Let's get this thread to 500 before Troon.  Come on

Edited Thursday at 10:34 PM by StoutKing

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, Golferpaul said:

Or we do nothing and enjoy the modern golf world as the pros play it.

Exactly. There is nothing in the pro game or the elite amateur game that is ruining golf. Theres no golf course where the course records are being challenged on a daily basis because of the supposed length of todays golf.

 

Some say all the courses they play are too short and its boring hitting 7i or less into all the par 4s yet they aren’t shooting mid to lows 60s or breaking course records despite how easy the game supposedly is with the modern equipment and short courses. 

[mgoblue83]

6 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Exactly. There is nothing in the pro game or the elite amateur game that is ruining golf. Theres no golf course where the course records are being challenged on a daily basis because of the supposed length of todays golf.

 

Some say all the courses they play are too short and its boring hitting 7i or less into all the par 4s yet they aren’t shooting mid to lows 60s or breaking course records despite how easy the game supposedly is with the modern equipment and short courses. 

Stop. Not a single one of us cares about scores as the reason to roll back equipment.

 

We care about needing to use every club in our bag and playing golf courses the way they were designed and played for almost 100 years.

 

The last round I played was on a 6600yd “championship” course and I could only hit 3 drivers the entire round because of dog legs and run outs. I hit more long irons off the tee than I had mid irons into greens. It was one of the most boring rounds I’ve ever played.

[Simpsonia]

12 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

Stop. Not a single one of us cares about scores as the reason to roll back equipment.

 

We care about other people needing to use every club in our bag and playing golf courses the way they were designed and played for almost 100 years.

 

The last round I played was on a 6600yd “championship” course and I could only hit 3 drivers the entire round because of dog legs and run outs. I hit more long irons off the tee than I had mid irons into greens. It was one of the most boring rounds I’ve ever played.

 

Added the bold part for ya. Nothing is stopping you from playing with every club in your bag, or using whatever equipment you want. If you want to hit your old Big Bertha, go for it. Nothing is stopping you whatsoever from playing how you keep describing you want to play. Just admit that as a proponent of the rollback, it's about you enforcing your desire on everyone else. 

[Ashley Schaeffer]

14 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Added the bold part for ya. Nothing is stopping you from playing with every club in your bag, or using whatever equipment you want. If you want to hit your old Big Bertha, go for it. Nothing is stopping you whatsoever from playing how you keep describing you want to play. Just admit that as a proponent of the rollback, it's about you enforcing your desire on everyone else. 

Mentioned this a lot of pages back.  If you want to interact with your favorite fairway bunker, hit the club that ensures that you do so.  Get an old 1-iron and feather that baby into some par 4s to play like your heroes.  If that's what makes golf fun for you, you are free to do so.  Nobody can tell you how to play. 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, mgoblue83 said:

Stop. Not a single one of us cares about scores as the reason to roll back equipment.

 

We care about needing to use every club in our bag and playing golf courses the way they were designed and played for almost 100 years.

 

The last round I played was on a 6600yd “championship” course and I could only hit 3 drivers the entire round because of dog legs and run outs. I hit more long irons off the tee than I had mid irons into greens. It was one of the most boring rounds I’ve ever played.

Who said anything about caring about score. I pointed out that course records aren’t being broken which proves no course is obsolete.
 

I pointed out that none of the ones claiming local courses are too short and boring aren’t scoring low despite how easy the game is claimed to be due to big drives and long distances.

and no they aren’t obsolete because they aren’t played as the design calls for. That’s not a rule for playing golf and you can’t point to anything that shows it should be. And no design challenges all golfers the same. 
 

you are free to use every club in your bag. Nobody is making you use driver off the tee. You don’t want to hit driver 7i into all the par 4s then hit an iron or a wood. That your choice.

 

Maybe use that distance to take on the doglegs

Edited Friday at 12:08 AM by GoGoErky

[smashdn]

3 hours ago, Golferpaul said:

Or we do nothing and enjoy the modern golf world as the pros play it.

7800-8000 yard courses are the future then.

 

You'll be dealing with more and more of them t-shirt wearing "protesters" if we don't reign in the land use area and input usage.  I think golf will be seen in a poorer and poorer light in the years to come.

[clevited]

6 minutes ago, smashdn said:

7800-8000 yard courses are the future then.

 

You'll be dealing with more and more of them t-shirt wearing "protesters" if we don't reign in the land use area and input usage.  I think golf will be seen in a poorer and poorer light in the years to come.

 

No, they aren't.  

Edited Friday at 01:07 AM by clevited

[Titleist99]

3 hours ago, GoGoErky said:

Exactly. There is nothing in the pro game or the elite amateur game that is ruining golf. Theres no golf course where the course records are being challenged on a daily basis because of the supposed length of todays golf.

 

Some say all the courses they play are too short and its boring hitting 7i or less into all the par 4s yet they aren’t shooting mid to lows 60s or breaking course records despite how easy the game supposedly is with the modern equipment and short courses. 

100%..... still a lot to talk about.

 

1.    Scoring average over the years, even though RBs say that score doesn't matter.

 

2.    Holding Architects accountable if the RBs really want to save the game for our grandchildren. Pretty hard to type that one with a straight face.

Edited Friday at 01:42 AM by Titleist99

[Titleist99]

43 minutes ago, smashdn said:

7800-8000 yard courses are the future then.

 

You'll be dealing with more and more of them t-shirt wearing "protesters" if we don't reign in the land use area and input usage.  I think golf will be seen in a poorer and poorer light in the years to come.

No golf course should ever be built over 7200-7300 yards if we hold the architect accountable. If you can't build a course that challenges the best at that length, you're not a real architect. Yes, that includes Jack and Tiger.

[bcjim]

11 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Stop. Not a single one of us cares about scores as the reason to roll back equipment.

 

We care about needing to use every club in our bag and playing golf courses the way they were designed and played for almost 100 years.

 

The last round I played was on a 6600yd “championship” course and I could only hit 3 drivers the entire round because of dog legs and run outs. I hit more long irons off the tee than I had mid irons into greens. It was one of the most boring rounds I’ve ever played.

You complain when it's driver wedge all day.  Then complain when you can't hit driver wedge as well? You guys are tough to please. 

[GoGoErky]

23 minutes ago, bcjim said:

You complain when it's driver wedge all day.  Then complain when you can't hit driver wedge as well? You guys are tough to please. 

Plying the course as designed was boring. Not hitting driver wedge was boring.
 

so let’s make the pros play the course as designed and no hit driver wedge so the pro game is less entertaining.

 

[smashdn]

11 hours ago, clevited said:

 

No, they aren't.  

 

You are in a way correct, they already exist.

 

Feel free to disagree but I can just link to newly built and newly remodeled courses, as I have done here before, to prove the point.

[Simpsonia]

32 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

You are in a way correct, they already exist.

 

Feel free to disagree but I can just link to newly built and newly remodeled courses, as I have done here before, to prove the point.

 

You've quoted anecdata. Just because a handful of courses are being remodeled, or a handful of new courses are being built with long yardages has no impact on the overall game of golf as a whole. The average male amateur still drives the ball roughly ~220yds, even less for female ams. You keep making it sound like hundreds or thousands 8000yd courses are going to be springing up all over the world. To the extent that any 7500-8000 yd courses are being remodeled or built, they are outliers amongst all the other courses across the world. My munis that tip out at 6000yds will be just fine. 

Edited Friday at 12:47 PM by Simpsonia

[clevited]

44 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

You've quoted anecdata. Just because a handful of courses are being remodeled, or a handful of new courses are being built with long yardages has no impact on the overall game of golf as a whole. The average male amateur still drives the ball roughly ~220yds, even less for female ams. You keep making it sound like hundreds or thousands 8000yd courses are going to be springing up all over the world. To the extent that any 7500-8000 yd courses are being remodeled or built, they are outliers amongst all the other courses across the world. My munis that tip out at 6000yds will be just fine. 

 

Exactly, couldn't have described what I was thinking when he posted that any better.

[gvogel]

12 hours ago, smashdn said:

7800-8000 yard courses are the future then.

 

You'll be dealing with more and more of them t-shirt wearing "protesters" if we don't reign in the land use area and input usage.  I think golf will be seen in a poorer and poorer light in the years to come.

I agree with this comment.

[gvogel]

12 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

No golf course should ever be built over 7200-7300 yards if we hold the architect accountable. If you can't build a course that challenges the best at that length, you're not a real architect. Yes, that includes Jack and Tiger.

My eye test says that you are wrong, because what I see is that elite players are hitting driver, short iron on par 5's on 7,200 yard course, and driver, wedge on par 4's.

 

I cannot think of another sport, except sailing, where performance increased anywhere close to the distance increase in hitting driver from 1995 to 2015.  Incredible.  And yet you guys who never played with wood heads and steel shafts think that the increase came from better athletes and improved conditioning.  It's laughable, really. 

[betarhoalphadelta]

22 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

BIFURCATION

 

18 hours ago, StoutKing said:

Another bifurcation fan.  Me too

 

How about this for bifurcation?

 

MLR that states that no club (other than putter) of less that 15 degrees of loft can be used. It doesn't need to be implemented on every course the PGAT or elite events use--it can be enforced only on the courses who "need" to rein in distance. 

 

Doesn't require ANY equipment to be changed, doesn't require ANY pro or elite player to adjust as they already have a 3W in the bag, and doesn't muck with the amateur game. 

 

Don't change the ball. Just take driver out of the bag if elite players are hitting driver too far. 

[ThinkingPlus]

9 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

 

How about this for bifurcation?

 

MLR that states that no club (other than putter) of less that 15 degrees of loft can be used. It doesn't need to be implemented on every course the PGAT or elite events use--it can be enforced only on the courses who "need" to rein in distance. 

 

Doesn't require ANY equipment to be changed, doesn't require ANY pro or elite player to adjust as they already have a 3W in the bag, and doesn't muck with the amateur game. 

 

Don't change the ball. Just take driver out of the bag if elite players are hitting driver too far. 

It's not what the ruling bodies and rollback enthusiasts want. They want golf as it was in the 1950s to 1970s, but with modern agronomy. They want fast, firm fairways and greens as well as groomed playable bunkers with modern specified sand.

 

To get this they will need to dial equipment specs back to lower performing than what was available in the 1950s to 1970s. The lower performance makes up for the increased athleticism and training of the modern golfer, better instruction, and swing optimization equipment as well as the improved agronomy.

 

Hitting driver well is a skill integral to high level golf. They just want a well struck driver to go only 265 yards.

[AZBRONCFAN]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

My eye test says that you are wrong, because what I see is that elite players are hitting driver, short iron on par 5's on 7,200 yard course, and driver, wedge on par 4's.

 

I cannot think of another sport, except sailing, where performance increased anywhere close to the distance increase in hitting driver from 1995 to 2015.  Incredible.  And yet you guys who never played with wood heads and steel shafts think that the increase came from better athletes and improved conditioning.  It's laughable, really. 

Baseball and Home runs. Passing yards in NFL. 3 pt shots in basketball 

[GoGoErky]

1 hour ago, gvogel said:

My eye test says that you are wrong, because what I see is that elite players are hitting driver, short iron on par 5's on 7,200 yard course, and driver, wedge on par 4's.

 

I cannot think of another sport, except sailing, where performance increased anywhere close to the distance increase in hitting driver from 1995 to 2015.  Incredible.  And yet you guys who never played with wood heads and steel shafts think that the increase came from better athletes and improved conditioning.  It's laughable, really. 

Always got the snide remark and misrepresenting what’s been said.

 

Im pretty sure everyone na said that equipment and ball had an impact on distance., but that since the current conforming specs have been in place distance gains aren’t coming from the equipment or the ball. Btw the same organization you and the pro rollbackers are supporting in this decision have also stated as much in an interview that the current distance gains are coming from the golfers not the equipment 

[betarhoalphadelta]

8 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

It's not what the ruling bodies and rollback enthusiasts want. They want golf as it was in the 1950s to 1970s, but with modern agronomy. They want fast, firm fairways and greens as well as groomed playable bunkers with modern specified sand.

 

To get this they will need to dial equipment specs back to lower performing than what was available in the 1950s to 1970s. The lower performance makes up for the increased athleticism and training of the modern golfer, better instruction, and swing optimization equipment as well as the improved agronomy.

 

Hitting driver well is a skill integral to high level golf. They just want a well struck driver to go only 265 yards.

 

I'm just saying it gives them what they want. Trackman's updated tour averages suggest that 3 wood carry distance on tour is 33 yards shorter than driver. With more spin and a steeper landing angle, so less rollout. That'll make a MUCH bigger difference than this ball rollback. And it's a smaller, less forgiving head, so it should take more skill to hit. 

 

What's not to love for the rollbackers?

 

And the clubmakers would love it. While they've gotten the opportunity to show off an entirely new club (the mini driver), they could invent a mega 3 wood optimized for tee shots, and all the people who want to play like Tour players can buy them!

[farmer]

8 minutes ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

Baseball and Home runs. Passing yards in NFL. 3 pt shots in basketball 

Every record in every sport.

[ThinkingPlus]

19 minutes ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

I'm just saying it gives them what they want. Trackman's updated tour averages suggest that 3 wood carry distance on tour is 33 yards shorter than driver. With more spin and a steeper landing angle, so less rollout. That'll make a MUCH bigger difference than this ball rollback. And it's a smaller, less forgiving head, so it should take more skill to hit. 

 

What's not to love for the rollbackers?

 

And the clubmakers would love it. While they've gotten the opportunity to show off an entirely new club (the mini driver), they could invent a mega 3 wood optimized for tee shots, and all the people who want to play like Tour players can buy them!

It doesn't give them what they want. It isn't just about how far the ball is being hit with one club. It is about style of play. This is an esoteric issue. Touchy, feely non-rational subjective preference for returning golf to mostly (none, so far, have expressed a desire for cow pasture fairways and stimp 7 greens) ye olden times.

[gvogel]

22 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Always got the snide remark and misrepresenting what’s been said.

 

Im pretty sure everyone na said that equipment and ball had an impact on distance., but that since the current conforming specs have been in place distance gains aren’t coming from the equipment or the ball. Btw the same organization you and the pro rollbackers are supporting in this decision have also stated as much in an interview that the current distance gains are coming from the golfers not the equipment 

Every year or two the engineers make incremental gains in clubface technology or ball technology.  For example, the new Ping G430 Max 10K has some secret sauce that is providing higher launch and less spin than previous models.  Face technology, weighting, aerodynamics, etc.  The ball manufacturers are hard at work tweaking rubber, and now tweaking the firmness from the middle of the inside to the outside of the inner layer.

 

These incremental gains add up over the year.

[gvogel]

36 minutes ago, AZBRONCFAN said:

Baseball and Home runs. Passing yards in NFL. 3 pt shots in basketball 

I doubt that those performance advances are of the same magnitude as the advances in driving distance.