Titleist driver loft sleeve adjustments for strike location

[pghgolfer]

Hi All,

 

If this has been previously discussed at length, please post the thread and don’t waste your time responding! Thanks to all in advance if this gains any traction. 

Situation: Chronic low ball hitter, IMPROVING. Recently fit by Titleist rep into a driver that I have been hitting very well. I have good control of the ball, flight  is higher than ever, but I am now looking to maximize smash factor. I am trying try strike the ball in the high toe, as previously discussed at length (Howard Jones). I currently strike the ball center to center-toe, but rarely above the equator or COG. SS 105mph. AOA +2-4*. Club: TSR2 11* with Tour AD UB 7S. 

 

So the question is, do we have any proof that using a specific setting on the titleist loft sleeve will change strike location (higher on the club face)? Due to my + AOA, I think the lower part of the face ‘sees’ the ball first, hence lower strike. If I decrease my AOA, I may strike the ball higher, but spin goes up and control goes down. Any ideas are appreciated. 

[Jc0]

Tee it higher. Adjusting the face will do nothing. If you want a positive angle of attack you need to have the ball tee'd high enough to allow it.

[B.Easy]

I don't agree that it will do nothing.  I also don't believe that it will absolutely do what you're hoping it will do.

 

Some players are very sensitive to the look of certain lie angles.  Titleist happens to allow for a lie angle change without significantly changing loft.

 

I am sensitive to an upright lie angle and have a tendency to heel strike when drivers are upright.  I changed my TSR3 to the flattest setting  and it moves strike to center/toe. I already hit higher on the face, so it didn't change that for me much, but it did some.

 

You already have a +2-+4 AOA naturally and that's fine.  One thing that will raise strike on the face is moving it "slightly" back in your stance from normal.  "Hitting up" doesn't lower spin and increase smash like some preach on this site.  Strike location increases smash.  I'm 116-120+ SS with a 0-+2 AOA and I'm a low to mid spin player with driver.

 

BUT, I would suggest something better.   @Howard_Jones has an absolutely awesome thread here about "DIY driver fitting" that has helped many people on this site find the correct strike and hit their driver better than ever before.  Slightly above center/slightly toe side, which is what you're looking for.  

[B.Easy]

1 hour ago, pghgolfer said:

Hi All,

 

If this has been previously discussed at length, please post the thread and don’t waste your time responding! Thanks to all in advance if this gains any traction. 

Situation: Chronic low ball hitter, IMPROVING. Recently fit by Titleist rep into a driver that I have been hitting very well. I have good control of the ball, flight  is higher than ever, but I am now looking to maximize smash factor. I am trying try strike the ball in the high toe, as previously discussed at length (Howard Jones). I currently strike the ball center to center-toe, but rarely above the equator or COG. SS 105mph. AOA +2-4*. Club: TSR2 11* with Tour AD UB 7S. 

 

So the question is, do we have any proof that using a specific setting on the titleist loft sleeve will change strike location (higher on the club face)? Due to my + AOA, I think the lower part of the face ‘sees’ the ball first, hence lower strike. If I decrease my AOA, I may strike the ball higher, but spin goes up and control goes down. Any ideas are appreciated. 

 

 

[pghgolfer]

5 minutes ago, B.Easy said:

 

 

 

Thank you for the thoughts. I have used Howard’s guide many times in the past. His guide would recommend teeing the ball higher, and cutting the shaft a hair shorter. In the past, cutting the shaft has led to horrible inconsistencies for me. Currently playing 45.25, and I’d like to keep it there. I feel like I already tee the ball fairly high, hence why I am asking specifically about how the loft sleeve affects strike location. I was hoping it may be an easy fix with one of the settings. 

[drscott266]

I was hitting heel quite a bit as a miss, so we adjusted to B2, and slid  the weight to H1. Helped square up my strike instantly. I can hit center of face and not lose anything, but now my miss is less punished if I heel it slightly. Pretty cool 

[B.Easy]

Try the flat setting and moving the ball very slightly rearward in your stance.  Trial and error.  Keeping track of what works and try to take it to the course.  You're a 4hcp, so you will eventually figure this out!  

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

 

Thank you for the thoughts. I have used Howard’s guide many times in the past. His guide would recommend teeing the ball higher, and cutting the shaft a hair shorter. In the past, cutting the shaft has led to horrible inconsistencies for me.

 

Did you follow the complete instructions in that thread concerning finding the best shaft weight and head weight for the shorter length?

 

 

But low on the face is not uncommon for those who have tried to increase there AoA in a way that results in the hands too far behind the ball at impact.   Just moving the ball position a little further back in the stance is worth trying (if you haven't already tried it).   You might loose some AoA but the effect on the strike location is usually worth it.

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Stuart_G

[pghgolfer]

Just now, Stuart_G said:

 

Did you follow the complete instructions in that thread concerning finding the best shaft weight and head weight for the shorter length?

 

I did. Initially the shorter length was great, then I completely lost it. Couldn’t hit a driver for almost a year. It was a sad time. I got into this tsr2 in November and truly have never hit the driver better. I’m being a bit greedy trying to optimize strike location right now… but I guess that’s what we do. Goal is to move the strike higher on the head with minimal swing changes. I guess I’ll tee the ball even higher…

[pghgolfer]

I use 3 1/4in blue and white pride professional tees. Maybe I’ll give 4in a try, but seems excessive…

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, pghgolfer said:

I use 3 1/4in blue and white pride professional tees. Maybe I’ll give 4in a try, but seems excessive…

 

You might have missed my edit - but I think you'd have better luck with this:

 

1 hour ago, Stuart_G said:

Just moving the ball position a little further back in the stance is worth trying (if you haven't already tried it).   You might loose some AoA but if it works, the effect on the strike location is usually worth it.

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by Stuart_G

[pghgolfer]

6 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

You might have missed my edit - but I think you'd have better luck with this:

 

 

will do, I’ll report back with some foot spray shots

[Stuart_G]

10 minutes ago, pghgolfer said:

will do, I’ll report back with some foot spray shots

 

Teeing it up lower is also something that can work in some cases - despite being counter-intuitive.   It is another way to force an AoA down a bit which can move the ball position closer to the bottom of the swing arc - which makes impact control a bit easier.

[jaffabell]

On the subject of teeing it higher - does anyone else get the absolute fear when teeing it remotely high? I have always preferred the look of a lower tee which upon reflection may not actually be helping me. Its not something I ever think about either, but reading this has me thinking. If I tee it high It looks like the head will go under the ball and I have to re tee. I suppose if you are a decent player your brain will react naturally to a higher tee but my brain tells me that its not gonna work 🙂 

[jvincent]

55 minutes ago, jaffabell said:

On the subject of teeing it higher - does anyone else get the absolute fear when teeing it remotely high? I have always preferred the look of a lower tee which upon reflection may not actually be helping me. Its not something I ever think about either, but reading this has me thinking. If I tee it high It looks like the head will go under the ball and I have to re tee. I suppose if you are a decent player your brain will react naturally to a higher tee but my brain tells me that its not gonna work 🙂 

 

Not a fear, just terrible results. When I tee it up I invariably get my body all tilted wrong at impact and hit it all over face. Well more all over the face than when I tee it lower.

 

Yes, I hit the occasional bomb when teed high. I also hit a much higher percentage of FORE (left/right)! 

[Howard_Jones]

13 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

 

Thank you for the thoughts. I have used Howard’s guide many times in the past. His guide would recommend teeing the ball higher, and cutting the shaft a hair shorter. In the past, cutting the shaft has led to horrible inconsistencies for me. Currently playing 45.25, and I’d like to keep it there. I feel like I already tee the ball fairly high, hence why I am asking specifically about how the loft sleeve affects strike location. I was hoping it may be an easy fix with one of the settings. 

The only way hosel setting MIGHT help you, is if you can lower lie angle, but it will not be a huge difference, but maybe enough to notice.

PS! be aware of when we in this case say "high toe side", we dont relly mean HIGH, but we are talking 2-3/8 above senter line, and 2-3/8 out against the toe

Its 3 parameters combined we are changing then.
- The actual loft = higher launch
- Maximixed ball speed . Toe side is faster than center, but to far off center cause a drop in PTR/smash factor and we dont want that, but stretch it to the limit where we take advantage of the higher club speed toe side, combined with max core and by that max ballspeed, and thats about 3/8 against the toe.
- Vertical gear effects will eat spin.

Another way to move it higher is by teeing it LOWER, and make the "imagination" that you are suppose to hit it off the deck (no tee), so you tee it up in the same height you want impact.
Moving impact only 1/8" UP, adds average 0.35* to launch (2/8" = 0.70*), so you DONT have worry about a change in AOA against negative when teeing it lower, it does NOT matter, and will be "compensated" with higher launch, better ball speed and spin levels...

Edited March 31, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Howard_Jones]

Adding a chart who shows how a player with NEGATIVE vs POSITIVE AOA needs different loft to get to the same launch angle. From +5* to 0* its only about 1.0* of loft, and since the average "loft to launch" is 1 loft = 0.85 on launch, a movement of impact by 2/8* who delivers 0.7 higher launch is all it takes to compensate for a change in AOA by 5* and it will NOT be that large of a difference when you tee it lower.

 

[pghgolfer]

21 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Adding a chart who shows how a player with NEGATIVE vs POSITIVE AOA needs different loft to get to the same launch angle. From +5* to 0* its only about 1.0* of loft, and since the average "loft to launch" is 1 loft = 0.85 on launch, a movement of impact by 2/8* who delivers 0.7 higher launch is all it takes to compensate for a change in AOA by 5* and it will NOT be that large of a difference when you tee it lower.

 

thank you, It’s Hard to wrap the mind around deceasing AOA and not adding spin. Seems that if I improve my impact location but decreasing AOA, the spin will be fine. I will try teeing it up lower. Thanks everyone.

[BraxtonFullerton]

2 hours ago, jaffabell said:

does anyone else get the absolute fear when teeing it remotely high?

 

I do. I tend not to stack and tilt enough with driver, so the fear of a dummy mark is absolutely there. I'm usually .5-2* up, but I do tee it decently low. I very rarely hit it in the 'bomber' locations above the equator, but my strike is fairly consistent on the face.

[Howard_Jones]

25 minutes ago, pghgolfer said:

thank you, It’s Hard to wrap the mind around deceasing AOA and not adding spin. Seems that if I improve my impact location but decreasing AOA, the spin will be fine. I will try teeing it up lower. Thanks everyone.

Start by trowing the myth about a connection between AOA and spin in the trash bin where it belongs, i debunked that myth in 2011, and had a hell of a debate with Trackman about it. (my studio was in Denmark where Trackman comes from, and several of them who worked there was my customers)

Spin is MADE by Dynamic loft, and the largest influence + or minus comes from Vertical gear effects, so we can say Vertical gear affects is the ruler of spin, since it ALSO overrides Dynamic loft.

AOA changes the GEAR RATIO from Dynamic loft to launch (like the headers of the chart shows for 100 mph), and thats it.
 

Look at this numbers, thats why i ended up in this debate with Trackman

AOA is = - 0.2
Dynamic loft is average 17.4
(static loft is 13.0* hand picked measured head)
(Spin loft = 17.6)
Spin is only 1.843

Distance is over and beyond Trackmans optimum numbers for +5, and WAY over and beyond their optimum for a neutral AOA
(numbers are METRIC)

 

Best drive was 199.4 meters or 219 yards carry, and 248 yards total, so thats "quite good" from only 90 mph club speed.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[Stuart_G]

2 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

thank you, It’s Hard to wrap the mind around deceasing AOA and not adding spin. Seems that if I improve my impact location but decreasing AOA, the spin will be fine. I will try teeing it up lower. Thanks everyone.

 

Face impact location is always going to be the king of spin for drivers.   More important than anything else.

 

In addition to what Howard said, there are good ways to increase AoA , and less than ideal ways.  Mostly with respect to how far back behind the ball the hands are at impact.  Too far back and it can be very problematic - both in terms of dynamic loft added and face impact location.   Most am's who are told that AoA will help spin end up doing it the "not so good" way - which ends up making the problems worse.

Edited March 31, 2023 by Stuart_G

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, pghgolfer said:

Hi All,

 

If this has been previously discussed at length, please post the thread and don’t waste your time responding! Thanks to all in advance if this gains any traction. 

Situation: Chronic low ball hitter, IMPROVING. Recently fit by Titleist rep into a driver that I have been hitting very well. I have good control of the ball, flight  is higher than ever, but I am now looking to maximize smash factor. I am trying try strike the ball in the high toe, as previously discussed at length (Howard Jones). I currently strike the ball center to center-toe, but rarely above the equator or COG. SS 105mph. AOA +2-4*. Club: TSR2 11* with Tour AD UB 7S. 

 

So the question is, do we have any proof that using a specific setting on the titleist loft sleeve will change strike location (higher on the club face)? Due to my + AOA, I think the lower part of the face ‘sees’ the ball first, hence lower strike. If I decrease my AOA, I may strike the ball higher, but spin goes up and control goes down. Any ideas are appreciated. 

Sleeve does NOT change strike location.  If you want to change that, adjust your distance to the ball, based on your mechanics.  Optimum strike face location is fractionally above Center face, fractionally forward.  Generally, + AoA in the proper face location gets a great trajectory, distance, and low spin.  The other factor is transition position should be synchronized with the clubhead hitting up on the ball. 

 

What's seldom talked about regarding sleeve settings, most people set the club head on the turf then grip and wonder why there's no trajectory change, after adjusting the sleeve. 

 

My natural flight is low-mid trajectory.  When I want a higher trajectory, I tee the ball at max tee height, 3", then I grip the club and hover the club head, square the face followed by a smooth takeaway of my TSR2 10', sleeve on D4 or standard lie, +.75' loft.  That's how I still get distance at 70+ yrs old.