Berkeley Hills vs Rivermont (2023 update)

[bronisboss]

There are a few threads on these courses that are out of date at this point so wanted refreshed opinions if anyone has them.

 

I've played both and liked them. Both greens are imperfect currently but it's been a bad year so far. My round at Rivermont took more than 4 hours while my round at BH was closer to three and a half. Rivermont was definitely more interesting but harder off the tee and less walkable. 

 

Initiation fees are similar. 

 

My biggest gripes are:

Rivermont:

Slower rounds seemed normal, tee time request system seems frustrating, members were not very engaged, they seem to prioritize the events they host which is an inconvenience on the members

 

BHCC:

The collection areas around the greens were a bit patchy so it was hard to get clean chips, edges of the new greens are burnt, membership seemed a bit older, less press/awareness (maybe not a bad thing)

 

Any feedback from current members on the playing groups, tee time availability, conditions, etc.? Both have invested in the course over the last year which is awesome and hopefully means no assessments anytime soon.

[hollabachgt]

I was a member at Berkeley Hills for a decade, left 5 years ago for grad school. If I still lived close to the club I'd be a member again.  When I was shopping clubs I narrowed down my selection to Rivermont and Berkeley. I ultimately went with Berkeley because of the better quality practice facilities and the more walkable course.  While I can't speak to the current state of the club, I give you my impressions from my tenure at Berkeley.

 

The Super, Chris Purvis, does a really good job managing the course. He's forthright with the members and that has garnered him a lot of trust. The course will never be perfectly wall to wall green, but it will always play well. When I joined, I was one of the only members under the age of 25. By the time I left there was a really strong group of players under the age of 30. It felt like the membership was skewing younger and I was quickly becoming one of the older guys, so it's interesting to hear your impression that the membership is older. The MGA would run a handful of event through the year, but did not manage week by week play. There are a number of revolving weekend morning groups. Some are more open than others, but the head pro Shawn is helpful at introducing new members into the right game for them.

 

Berkeley is a sneaky hard course. Virtually every new members handicap immediately goes up 2 or 3 shots once they join. Rivermont is much more visually interesting, but also a lot more straightforward. It doesn't hide anything. Berkeley is more subtle. I don't know how many people I'd bring out there, good players, who scored poorly but didn't feel like they played that poorly. It's a course that forces you to be a better player.

 

You really can't make a bad decision here, both are good places to call home.

[masegolf1978]

Any updates/additional thoughts for 2024?

[bronisboss]

15 hours ago, masegolf1978 said:

Any updates/additional thoughts for 2024?

 

I ended up passing on both, although I enjoyed my rounds there and the hosts were great. I'm going with one of the in-town courses instead to cut my golf commute from 30+min to 5min. Hope others can weigh in that made a decision between the 2.

[kobe123]

On 1/18/2024 at 10:54 AM, bronisboss said:

 

I ended up passing on both, although I enjoyed my rounds there and the hosts were great. I'm going with one of the in-town courses instead to cut my golf commute from 30+min to 5min. Hope others can weigh in that made a decision between the 2.

Which course?

[srs06d]

9 minutes ago, kobe123 said:

Which course?

Did you marry into? 😉

[renobleiii]

I’m going to slightly hijack this thread. Really want to join a club, but I’m in smyrna/vinings. The high end clubs (ACC, Cherokee, capitol city, etc) aren’t an option for me. What clubs might fit? I’m looking for a golf club first (country club amenities don’t move the needle for us), a course that is walkable, and proximity to my area matters. I need to be able to go play 9 or 18 after lunch and be home before the wife and kids. 
 

pinetree and Indian hills are in Cobb, but don’t know if anywhere else might fit the bill. 

[bluedot]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:08 PM, renobleiii said:

I’m going to slightly hijack this thread. Really want to join a club, but I’m in smyrna/vinings. The high end clubs (ACC, Cherokee, capitol city, etc) aren’t an option for me. What clubs might fit? I’m looking for a golf club first (country club amenities don’t move the needle for us), a course that is walkable, and proximity to my area matters. I need to be able to go play 9 or 18 after lunch and be home before the wife and kids. 
 

pinetree and Indian hills are in Cobb, but don’t know if anywhere else might fit the bill. 

I don’t think you have any options that fit all your criteria.  You’ll have to spend more, or drive more.  Pinetree is excellent; Indian Hills is ok, but extremely crowded, even with 27 holes, and I think there are lotteries for tee times on the weekends.

 

As to playing golf after lunch and being home before the wife and kids, there are few places in the world where that’s tougher to do than metro Atlanta in general and Cobb County in particular.  It takes 45 minutes to make a quick trip to the grocery store, and people buy gas at stations where they don’t have to make a left turn in or out of the lot.  There is no “rush hour” in Atlanta anymore; there’s heavy traffic, and there’s gridlock.

[renobleiii]

50 minutes ago, bluedot said:

I don’t think you have any options that fit all your criteria.  You’ll have to spend more, or drive more.  Pinetree is excellent; Indian Hills is ok, but extremely crowded, even with 27 holes, and I think there are lotteries for tee times on the weekends.

 

As to playing golf after lunch and being home before the wife and kids, there are few places in the world where that’s tougher to do than metro Atlanta in general and Cobb County in particular.  It takes 45 minutes to make a quick trip to the grocery store, and people buy gas at stations where they don’t have to make a left turn in or out of the lot.  There is no “rush hour” in Atlanta anymore; there’s heavy traffic, and there’s gridlock.

I’m born and raised in Georgia. You’re preaching to the choir on traffic. Pinetree probabaly fits the bill best.  I feel like I’d have options if I lived along 400 or 141. When I say play in the afternoon, I mean dip out at noon or 1 and go play. I know catching a 3 pm round just isn’t possible at this point since my kids are so young. They need both parents at home each evening. 

[bluedot]

23 hours ago, renobleiii said:

I’m born and raised in Georgia. You’re preaching to the choir on traffic. Pinetree probabaly fits the bill best.  I feel like I’d have options if I lived along 400 or 141. When I say play in the afternoon, I mean dip out at noon or 1 and go play. I know catching a 3 pm round just isn’t possible at this point since my kids are so young. They need both parents at home each evening. 

I lived in Alpharetta and worked in Roswell for 40 years before moving back to NC a few years ago.  My best friends in the world are there, and I miss them.  
 

But I’m grateful every day for not being in that traffic anymore.  I live 5 minutes from my golf club, and if I don’t take a trip, I buy gas about once a month, sometimes longer.  In Atlanta, you can’t get out of your subdivision in 5 minutes, much less to a golf course.

[Octopus Golfer]

3 hours ago, bluedot said:

I lived in Alpharetta and worked in Roswell for 40 years before moving back to NC a few years ago.  My best friends in the world are there, and I miss them.  
 

But I’m grateful every day for not being in that traffic anymore.  I live 5 minutes from my golf club, and if I don’t take a trip, I buy gas about once a month, sometimes longer.  In Atlanta, you can’t get out of your subdivision in 5 minutes, much less to a golf course.

I’d just like to point out that you did not live in Atlanta; you lived in Alpharetta. I live in Atlanta (Buckhead), can get to my office in Midtown in less than 10 minutes, can get to a public golf course in 5 minutes, and can get to my private club in 20 minutes. I get that traffic is really bad in the broader region, but there are places to live that don’t have the same traffic headaches. 

[bluedot]

19 hours ago, Octopus Golfer said:

I’d just like to point out that you did not live in Atlanta; you lived in Alpharetta. I live in Atlanta (Buckhead), can get to my office in Midtown in less than 10 minutes, can get to a public golf course in 5 minutes, and can get to my private club in 20 minutes. I get that traffic is really bad in the broader region, but there are places to live that don’t have the same traffic headaches. 

Point taken, and you are correct in that living and working in places where you don’t have to get on 400 or 75 or 285 is a significant improvement.  But probably not possible for the OP living in Smyrna and looking for an affordable private club where he can squeeze in afternoon golf and still be home before the kids. 

[hollabachgt]

On 1/26/2024 at 7:08 PM, renobleiii said:

I’m going to slightly hijack this thread. Really want to join a club, but I’m in smyrna/vinings. The high end clubs (ACC, Cherokee, capitol city, etc) aren’t an option for me. What clubs might fit? I’m looking for a golf club first (country club amenities don’t move the needle for us), a course that is walkable, and proximity to my area matters. I need to be able to go play 9 or 18 after lunch and be home before the wife and kids. 
 

pinetree and Indian hills are in Cobb, but don’t know if anywhere else might fit the bill. 

 

Dogwood in Austell might be a good option for you.

[me05501]

23 hours ago, Octopus Golfer said:

I’d just like to point out that you did not live in Atlanta; you lived in Alpharetta. I live in Atlanta (Buckhead), can get to my office in Midtown in less than 10 minutes, can get to a public golf course in 5 minutes, and can get to my private club in 20 minutes. I get that traffic is really bad in the broader region, but there are places to live that don’t have the same traffic headaches. 

 

There are such places, definitely. People have to balance their budget, housing requirements, school needs, golf habit and a ton of other factors to end up with a situation like yours inside the perimeter. Enjoy it!

[CPT_LHR_ATL]

Hi gents. Thanks for this thread -- it's very useful as a recent transplant to Atlanta looking at the golf options. I'm in Ansley Park and on the wait list for the Ansley Club, but post-COVID it's a rather long list! Don't mind joining somewhere else in the interim. Retired so I mostly play weekday late mornings, don't really care about other facilities -- just the golf. 75 or 85 North are my best shots out of town. Are there any other private clubs comparable to Rivermont/Berkeley Hills that I should be considering? Much appreciated!

[Octopus Golfer]

35 minutes ago, CPT_LHR_ATL said:

Hi gents. Thanks for this thread -- it's very useful as a recent transplant to Atlanta looking at the golf options. I'm in Ansley Park and on the wait list for the Ansley Club, but post-COVID it's a rather long list! Don't mind joining somewhere else in the interim. Retired so I mostly play weekday late mornings, don't really care about other facilities -- just the golf. 75 or 85 North are my best shots out of town. Are there any other private clubs comparable to Rivermont/Berkeley Hills that I should be considering? Much appreciated!

I think TPC Sugarloaf would fall in that category. They have 3 nines, and they are all pretty solid. It’s far from you, but it appears that’s not a big factor for you. I don’t have details about cost and waitlist, but I know it’s considerably cheaper than Ansley. 

[CPT_LHR_ATL]

20 hours ago, Octopus Golfer said:

I think TPC Sugarloaf would fall in that category. They have 3 nines, and they are all pretty solid. It’s far from you, but it appears that’s not a big factor for you. I don’t have details about cost and waitlist, but I know it’s considerably cheaper than Ansley. 

 

I heard from a neighbor that Ansley is telling current applicants it's about 6 years for social + Settindown membership and another 18 months on top of that for Midtown golf privileges.

[Octopus Golfer]

27 minutes ago, CPT_LHR_ATL said:

 

I heard from a neighbor that Ansley is telling current applicants it's about 6 years for social + Settindown membership and another 18 months on top of that for Midtown golf privileges.

That’s insane. Just a few years ago, you could join Settingdown immediately with a 2 year wait to play the intown course. 

[CPT_LHR_ATL]

2 minutes ago, Octopus Golfer said:

That’s insane. Just a few years ago, you could join Settingdown immediately with a 2 year wait to play the intown course. 

I know right? I think they are expecting to lose a chunk of members when Settindown closes for renovation so maybe that will help to cut down the waiting list.

[david.c.w]

What are they renovating?  Love that place.  Outside of maybe a few holes on the back and the par 3 7th(?), I dont know what they would/could change.

 

People don't like 18, but i think they just hit poor drives.  Also, almost impossible to change that hole.

 

[Drock25]

I think is just replacing drainage and bunkers, etc.  generally it doesnt drain well from what i’ve heard.  Last time i was there they were working to fix a pond on 12 i think (its the short par 4).  It was completely empty, could see about 50,000 pro v’s in the mud.  Don't think its a full course re-do.  Agree about 18, not much can really be done.

[Tyrus Webb]

Not a full redesign, but much much more than drainage and bunkers.  

[bluedot]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:49 AM, david.c.w said:

What are they renovating?  Love that place.  Outside of maybe a few holes on the back and the par 3 7th(?), I dont know what they would/could change.

 

People don't like 18, but i think they just hit poor drives.  Also, almost impossible to change that hole.

 

Most people don’t know or remember this now, but in Bob Cupp’s original routing, 18 at Settindown wasn’t the 18th hole.  
 

The original planned location for the main entrance and the clubhouse was just into Cherokee County, and not inside that subdivision where it is now.  I can’t recall the hole numbers anymore, but the current 18th was in the middle of on of the nines, and the original 18th was a long par 4.

 

The decision to relocate the site for the clubhouse was because the club couldn’t get the alcohol permits they wanted/needed from Cherokee County at that time, but could In Fulton County.  That also necessitated changing the routing, though.  I know that sounds crazy, but Cherokee County in the ‘80’s was a very different place than it is today.

[david.c.w]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

Most people don’t know or remember this now, but in Bob Cupp’s original routing, 18 at Settindown wasn’t the 18th hole.  
 

The original planned location for the main entrance and the clubhouse was just into Cherokee County, and not inside that subdivision where it is now.  I can’t recall the hole numbers anymore, but the current 18th was in the middle of on of the nines, and the original 18th was a long par 4.

 

The decision to relocate the site for the clubhouse was because the club couldn’t get the alcohol permits they wanted/needed from Cherokee County at that time, but could In Fulton County.  That also necessitated changing the routing, though.  I know that sounds crazy, but Cherokee County in the ‘80’s was a very different place than it is today.

 

First off, sorry for hijacking the thread for Settindown...

 

Wild stuff.  Thanks for the info.  I just looked at the map.  The only hole entirely in Fulton is 18.  Partial holes are 1 tee, 10 tee, 9 green, 17 green.  Everything else is in Cherokee.  

 

I think 18 is a good hole.  Good drive sets you up for a short approach and opportunity for birdie.  Poor or short drive is almost an automatic bogey or worse.  Red line is the county borders.  

 

[driveandputtmachine]

On 1/28/2024 at 7:52 AM, bluedot said:

I don’t think you have any options that fit all your criteria.  You’ll have to spend more, or drive more.  Pinetree is excellent; Indian Hills is ok, but extremely crowded, even with 27 holes, and I think there are lotteries for tee times on the weekends.

 

As to playing golf after lunch and being home before the wife and kids, there are few places in the world where that’s tougher to do than metro Atlanta in general and Cobb County in particular.  It takes 45 minutes to make a quick trip to the grocery store, and people buy gas at stations where they don’t have to make a left turn in or out of the lot.  There is no “rush hour” in Atlanta anymore; there’s heavy traffic, and there’s gridlock.

I was a member at Pinetree and I have been at Indian Hills now for 4 years.  Indian Hills has a waiting list, I think I heard 3 or 4 years now and the initiation has gone through the roof(20k was what I heard, and 2k non refundable to get on the list).   As far as weekend tee times, I generally play in the morning both days, sometimes Sunday afternoon and never have a problem getting a tee time.  Yes it is a "Lottery" but the only time I can remember having trouble getting a tee time is on the weekend of a big MGA event if I wasn't playing in it, which would be the same at any club.  If you are trying to book something on Friday for the weekend or trying to get an afternoon time day of during the week, yeah you might have trouble depending upon the time of year.

 

I still have some friends at Pinetree and they have a waiting list and initiation price has gone up tremendously there as well, not sure what the cost is or time currently though.

 

Pinetree is far and away a better golf course.  It is bigger and broader.  The Bergin re-design/re-fit did amazing things.  I think they are nearing time for the greens to be redone, but I do not know for sure.  This golf course has some hard tee shots, but it's main difficulty is in approach shots/greens and chipping.  Their clubhouse is old, but has been redone, but shows its age in the design.  The pool and tennis courts are not good/large.  Men's locker room and men's grill room are good.

 

Indian Hills is a tee shot golf course.  There are 11 difficult(5) to interesting(6) greens out of the 27, but the rest are pretty benign.  They have done a ton of tree removal and significant upgrades to the areas surrounding the holes and removed all the asphalt cart paths and gone to concrete across the course.  I would still like quite a few more trees removed, but oh well.  The clubhouse, three pools, tennis courts and the rest of the non golf country club atmosphere is better.  Neither has great practice facilities, but Pinetree has much more grass and fewer members so it wins there.

 

Depending upon your game both courses handicaps will travel well.  If you play at IH and aren't a great driver of the golf ball and go somewhere more open, you will probably beat your handicap.  If you play at Pinetree and aren't a great approach player and go somewhere with more benign greens and surrounds you will probably beat your handicap.  If the opposites are true you may have trouble playing to your handicap.

 

I moved clubs because pre-covid being in the office four days a week and working at the 285/400 area, getting to Pinetree after work was difficult.  I live near Lassiter, and from my house getting to them is about the same amount of time.  Post Covid I am in the office one day a week, had covid occurred two years earlier or even 1 year I am probably still at Pinetree.  Both clubs have amazing membership, which to me is what makes or breaks most clubs.

[david.c.w]

On 3/12/2024 at 10:53 AM, driveandputtmachine said:

  Both clubs have amazing membership, which to me is what makes or breaks most clubs.

 

This should be 75% of the criteria.  

 

Unless the course really does not fit you, it really drops down on the criteria to #4 at best.  At the very least proximity, availability, and comradery are more important than the course. 

[me05501]

A friend who belongs to Rivermont told me a tree fell on the clubhouse causing a fire. Kind of a drag since it was renovated relatively recently. Not a total loss by any means, but a mess nonetheless. 

Edited March 13 by me05501