Immerse in the Japanese golf scene

[Jimi Thing]

I’m intrigued by Japan, at least my (possibly flawed) perception of it. Their culture, focus on detail and quality and am so curious how the Japanese experience golf. 
 

what would your Japanese golf focused trip consist of? What courses would you want to play? What equipment shopping would you do and where? What do you think should be included to get a more insiders view of what it’s like to be a golf nut in Japan?

[Schley]

Heading to Japan for my first golf trip there in the fall. Have been postponed due to COVID for 3 years.  Always wanted to play there as I have been to Japan a couple times, although never played.

 

It is very difficult to access their great courses without a tour operator who has connections.  I knew a guy elite sporting tours Japan from Australia.  He did a couple for some friends and has a good 10 day 8 round trip for eight of us.  Kawana is possible as it is a resort course and publicly accessible, however the othera w private and members are needed.

 

We are taking a tour of Kyoto while there, baseball game and sumo session. Will do some Michelin star restaurants as well.

 

Courses

Hirono 

Naruo

Tokyo gc

Kawana Fuji 

Ono 

Abiko

Yokohama 

Kasumigaseki Country Club

 

I know over 25 guys who have been and yet to hear any not have it ranked in their top three golf trips.

[Jimi Thing]

That sounds absolutely wonderful and is a representation of what I run into doing some google research. It seems to be on the exclusive side of Japanese golf, probably not what the average Japanese WRX'er would do on a weekend. Would love to learn about that as well.

 

I would love to hear your experience once you are back.

 

Some others possibly located in Japan that can share their views of how they experience being a golfer in Japan?

[Dancin]

if you don't have a local contact that wants to play with you or speak Japanese, it will be almost impossible to set up rounds outside of the resorts that cater to westerners.

 

If you do have a local that can set it up, drive you around and play with you, there are tons of courses and it's gotten a lot easier as many of the semi private/public courses have relaxed their previous requirements and now allow less than foursomes. With the exchange rate the average course is not ridiculously expensive any more either.

[AltC]

Have only been to play in Japan once - Stayed at Kawana played both Fuji (twice) and Oshima courses - highly recommend making time to play the Oshima course as well if you are there  it is a short but strategic course and way more fun and scenic than Fuji - which is a super course and well deserving of its high ranking. Hotel is a bit dated - but also great fun ( the bar closes at 10pm) I accidentally hit into a Japanese group in front on the first day on Fuji - went forward to apologize ( couldn’t see them from the tee) anyway that evening I spent drinking whisky with one of the guys from that flight in the bar - he would buy me good Japanese whisky and I would buy him good single malt scotch! Great time - fantastic place. If you are going to play a series of courses ( I didn’t know this at the time - you can get the “black cat” delivery vans to take your clubs ( if you give them the itinerary- they will pick up the clubs at the airport from you then take them to the course on the morning you play - then pick them up after you finish and take them to the next course - seemingly this works really well ( better than humping them on trains etc.) definitely going back sometime I have an American buddy who lives in Chiba who I will tap up for a few rounds.

[AltC]

On 6/18/2023 at 7:11 PM, Schley said:

Heading to Japan for my first golf trip there in the fall. Have been postponed due to COVID for 3 years.  Always wanted to play there as I have been to Japan a couple times, although never played.

 

It is very difficult to access their great courses without a tour operator who has connections.  I knew a guy elite sporting tours Japan from Australia.  He did a couple for some friends and has a good 10 day 8 round trip for eight of us.  Kawana is possible as it is a resort course and publicly accessible, however the othera w private and members are needed.

 

We are taking a tour of Kyoto while there, baseball game and sumo session. Will do some Michelin star restaurants as well.

 

Courses

Hirono 

Naruo

Tokyo gc

Kawana Fuji 

Ono 

Abiko

Yokohama 

Kasumigaseki Country Club

 

I know over 25 guys who have been and yet to hear any not have it ranked in their top three golf trips.

That is a superb golf trip - you will have a fantastic time in Japan - jeez the food is mind blowing and super cold Asahi in bottles - just the best!

[Schley]

Fyi this trip isn't cheap as several have messaged me.  It is about 10k for hotel, transport and golf for those rounds.

[smashdn]

Is a golf outing at a resort course like some of you have mentioned more "normal" to how we do golf in western civilizations (round of golf takes 3.5-4.5 hours with a snack at the turn) or more in line with the closer to all-day affair with full lunch in between nines?

[Dancin]

21 hours ago, smashdn said:

Is a golf outing at a resort course like some of you have mentioned more "normal" to how we do golf in western civilizations (round of golf takes 3.5-4.5 hours with a snack at the turn) or more in line with the closer to all-day affair with full lunch in between nines?

The resorts that cater to westerners generally will let you do whatever you want and you can play through a full 18 with no issues. Worst case you might have to wait a tee time or two at the turn.

 

Not sure what you mean by outing though. If you are talking about an organized tournament or event, I would guess they do have lunch and a break in between 9s.

Edited June 20, 2023 by Dancin

[smashdn]

2 hours ago, Dancin said:

The resorts that cater to westerners generally will let you do whatever you want and you can play through a full 18 with no issues. Worst case you might have to wait a tee time or two at the turn.

 

Not sure what you mean by outing though. If you are talking about an organized tournament or event, I would guess they do have lunch and a break in between 9s.

 

Not sure why I used outing instead of round but I meant "round of golf."  You answered my question though.  Thanks.

[AltC]

No expert - but at Kawana you were expected to sit down for 20/30 minutes and have a snack at the turn - some groups were having more like a full lunch - but I had the most exquisite hotdog I have ever had ( Japanese attention to detail and quality) - then slot back into your round - but not necessarily behind the same group - it was very organized without being apparent- if you were ready you were up next or after the next group. I think as a westerner you get cut some slack - everyone notices you and wants you to enjoy their culture and courtesy - if you make a faux pas you will never find out - it will just be ignored!! Very cool place and people with very welcoming hearts.

[AltC]

Regarding planning / booking a trip to Japan I think Schley (who gets around a bit as he was playing Royal Dornoch in my homeland a few days ago) has gone the “best / easiest” route for a foreigner visiting - yep it’s not cheap but the tour operator has gotten you access to all the top rated courses in Japan - to put this together yourself is possible but very difficult unless you have a Japanese speaker and golfer to help you. Needs lots of letters in Japanese to club secretaries and follow up phone calls. So I think it’s money well spent to go the tour operator route for what will be an experience of a lifetime trip. I am more of an independent traveler and my trip was a dip your toe in the water type of trip ( made with my wife who also plays) so we did the bookings ourselves - bought tourist rail passes etc as we also spent a day or two up in Tokyo sightseeing - and spent a couple of great evenings after golf in Ito (the local town to Kawana resort) exploring local restaurants- there was even a town festival on whilst we were there which was fantastic to see a bit of real Japanese culture. We were living in Hong Kong at the time so it was not so far as coming from USA for instance and having lived in Asia for 30 years it was not daunting to just wing it ourselves. I did try to book a reciprocal course we had which was nearby but couldn’t get through the language thing so just stuck to what we had booked. I would recommend a Japan golf experience trip for anyone - but I would also intersperse with some cultural experience- the Imperial Palace was fantastic day out ( although it was blistering hot) - shopping in Shinjuku and eating “cheap” Ramen out of plastic bowls was also superb! 

[Christen_The_Sloop]

Just took a peak at this thread. I'm at work and I will follow up in a little bit. I was thinking of doing something on the side (I have an English school here) taking folks on a golf and dine type adventure in and around Kyoto. Life is too short and overcoming the language barrier is too difficult for the average guy to even attempt to play golf somewhere decent. So, I would like to make golf a reality for folks like I see here. 

 

Like I said, I'll be back shortly and speak about my experience and ideas for how to get it done.

[Jimi Thing]

What I was wondering and am truly interested in is what golf is like for Japanese people. The options mentioned above sound wonderful, however I expect it will provide a non representative picture of what golf in Japan is like. Is there a way where I can experience golf close to how japanese people experience it?

[JungleJimbo]

5 hours ago, Jimi Thing said:

What I was wondering and am truly interested in is what golf is like for Japanese people. The options mentioned above sound wonderful, however I expect it will provide a non representative picture of what golf in Japan is like. Is there a way where I can experience golf close to how japanese people experience it?

 

@Jimi Thing Your desire to experience "what golf in Japan is like" = reminded me of this comment from @Soloman1 i.e. full of rituals/ expensive etc. 

 

...Also: perhaps @Christen_The_Sloop , @No_Catchy_Nickname , @Soloman1 can share their insights on "What golf in Japan is like" = Is it really played by the masses, at the multi-storeyed driving range/simulators/rarely have an opportunity to play on a golf course?  

 

 

..Extract/Quote from @Soloman1's post:

Quote

"I have no problem at all being paired with people when I'm playing in the U.S. or Europe. It just isn't part of the golf culture in Japan. And that's just the way it is. How many times should I repeat it before it starts to register? Should I type it in all caps?

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you probably don't have any experience playing golf in Japan. They don't pair up groups because that would mean they have eat lunch with them (there is a one-hour lunch break between sides), then they have to take the customary after-round bath with them, then they have to have the customary after-round, after-bath beer.

Golf is not a sport in Japan. Golf is a long list of ceremonies in the land of ceremonies. Getting in the cart ceremony, introduction by the caddy ceremony, first tee ceremony, ninth green "Thank you for your hard work" ceremony, the "who sits in which seat at the lunch table" ceremony (the most senior person sits in the sit farthest from the door and the most junior person sits closest to the restaurant door)."

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[Christen_The_Sloop]

My experience playing golf in Japan has been very positive. I've played at private clubs and places where you can walk on, and you get paired with interesting people, decent players and beginners alike - sometimes I can even get out and play by myself at these places, which is nice on occasion.

 

Yes, private clubs are stuffy, but the rules are pretty straightforward. You've got to bring a jacket and change into your clothes, you play 9, have lunch, play 9 more and then hit the hot bath. Nothing feels nicer after a long round, I've got to say. Usually after that, I'll go for dinner with whoever I've played with...

 

Living in Kyoto, it can be a little bit of a drive out and back to where the course are in Shiga, Kameoka or Hyogo. But, there are a ton of courses. I think it's cool to get well away from touristy places and see like what the average person sees in this regard. Some of the Shiga courses are played where ninjas used to train, places like Koka.

 

The architecture of the courses is top notch. You can play Nicklaus courses, Trent Jones etc. There are a lot of historic courses, as far as hosting LPGA, JPGA and events where big names have played. Even one of the cheap riverside courses has hosted events won by the likes of Greg Norman. The conditions can be pretty spectacular, at courses like The Country Club (Shiga), The Bear's Paw (Shiga), Kansai Country Club (Kameoka). And, the courses that are kind of budget, like Reisen Golf Club (Kameoka) or Crown Hills Golf Club (Nantan), are really decent. Then there's Seta Golf Club (Otsu, Shiga) where you have the choice of two that are not so expensive, but decent and there's a private course that just hosted the LPGA event last year. I haven't played it, but it has just a ton of great looking holes.

 

Getting a foot in the door was a big obstacle. I didn't really play here my first two years, I don't know what the hell I was thinking. It's pretty much a golfer's paradise. Basically, I started going with my father in law. After seeing that I wasn't a complete nitwit, we played with his friends, I've played with a lot of interesting dudes and a geisha (she wasn't wearing makeup or a kimono and I only learned after the game).

 

The last few years have seen a quite a number of great little used golf shops shutter. But, there are still a ton of great places to go picking great used clubs. You never know what you'll find in some of the stores, it's like an Easter egg hunt. And, of course there are a lot of premium shops where you can find the big names. Unfortunately testing with X shafts is a little hard. The top of the line experience is probably going to the Mizuno Flagship store in Osaka, about an hour away.

 

The range I go to has Top Tracer. It's helped my game immensely and I go there about 8-10 times for every time I play. It's a giant time commitment to go play. The riverside courses are a good hour away. Every other course that's closer you've got to go through the hole procedure which is about 6-7 hours before going for dinner. I don't know about weekend golf here. I played twice on holidays and it wasn't fun.

 

It's definitely worth it to see the cultural difference and learn how folks do things in Japan. I don't think I've ever had a bad experience, other than the holidays. And the dining after in Kyoto can be absolutely unforgettable. 

 

 

 

[Soloman1]

@Schley :

 

That quote was kind of taken out of context with a blockhead... 🙂

And I was just kidding about all of the ceremonies. Maybe.

 

I lived in Japan over 25 years and in the area you're going to. I know many of those courses and some others that can be more foreigner friendly.

 

I don't want to do a data dump of 25 years here. If you're interested, I'm happy to talk with and answer questions. Just shoot me a PM, and I'll give you my phone number.

Cheers.

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

@Christen_The_Sloop's post covers lots of it.

 

Depending on the course, you'll have to turn up in a jacket just to check in, though many semi-private and public courses don't have this rule, and even some of the stuffy private courses have relaxed this rule for the hot summer months (usually June to the end of September).

 

At most courses, you can book as a pair, though you'll likely have to pay extra. At my course, they've even started to charge threesomes extra.

 

It's now possible to book as a single, though you have to go through certain booking websites to do it (like Rakuten, I think), so Japanese ability is probably required. 

 

Private courses can be harder to book. I know members at the many of the more exclusive courses around here, so I get to play with them, but I doubt I'd ever get to play a course like Koga (oldest course in Fukuoka, and has held the Japan Open a few times, including in 2019).

 

Also, depending on the course, you can book a "through" round where you don't have to stop after nine and eat lunch. Strangely, at my course, a through round costs the same on weekdays as a round with lunch included. 

 

While golf is cheaper than it was during the bubble years, the pandemic started another golf boom here, and prices are going up to match. Not sure what it's like around Kyoto, but I've definitely seen this in down here in Fukuoka. Also, it's getting harder to get a booking at weekends, and expect rounds to be slow. I've played some brutally slow rounds this year, like each nine holes taking nearly 3 hours.

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by No_Catchy_Nickname

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

Couple more points:

Most courses are carts only, no walking, and cart-path only is the norm. However, some courses do allow carts on the course if the weather is good.

 

Also, if you're playing an exclusive course with caddies, I bet you'll get around faster. One good course near me insists on providing you with a caddy, is walking only (except if you're over 65 or have a medical condition), and the caddy makes sure we all get around in under 4 hours for a foursome, usually around 3 to 3 and a half hours. 

 

I like playing there.

[Christen_The_Sloop]

22 minutes ago, No_Catchy_Nickname said:

@Christen_The_Sloop's post covers lots of it.

 

Depending on the course, you'll have to turn up in a jacket just to check in, though many semi-private and public courses don't have this rule, and even some of the stuffy private courses have relaxed this rule for the hot summer months (usually June to the end of September).

 

At most courses, you can book as a pair, though you'll likely have to pay extra. At my course, they've even started to charge threesomes extra.

 

It's now possible to book as a single, though you have to go through certain booking websites to do it (like Rakuten, I think), so Japanese ability is probably required. 

 

Private courses can be harder to book. I know members at the many of the more exclusive courses around here, so I get to play with them, but I doubt I'd ever get to play a course like Koga (oldest course in Fukuoka, and has held the Japan Open a few times, including in 2019).

 

Also, depending on the course, you can book a "through" round where you don't have to stop after nine and eat lunch. Strangely, at my course, a through round costs the same on weekdays as a round with lunch included. 

 

While golf is cheaper than it was during the bubble years, the pandemic started another golf boom here, and prices are going up to match. Not sure what it's like around Kyoto, but I've definitely seen this in down here in Fukuoka. Also, it's getting harder to get a booking at weekends, and expect rounds to be slow. I've played some brutally slow rounds this year, like each nine holes taking nearly 3 hours.

 

 

 

These days I mostly play local competitions and I've met a lot of cool folks. One guy is a member at Naruo (Hyogo). That's one place I'd love to play. At the end of the game her gave me a ball repair tool from there. Best he could do I guess.

 

A lot of the guys are members at average places I can book at without much problem. I really don't know if there's been much growth in the game, aside from the range I go to being packed at peak times - I kind of attribute that to installing Top Tracer.

 

I am going to Kyoto Golf Club Kamigamo course next week for my second non-tournament round of the year. It's short, under 6,000 yards, but brutally narrow fairways, likely thick rough, tiny, heavily bunkered and sloping greens. It's a good challenge and some really fun holes.

 

I am not sure, but I think you have to no a member to get on. I'm going with my father in-law, his friend who has tiny bar in Gion and I don't know who the fourth is yet. Looking forward to it.

 

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

33 minutes ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

 

These days I mostly play local competitions and I've met a lot of cool folks. One guy is a member at Naruo (Hyogo). That's one place I'd love to play. At the end of the game her gave me a ball repair tool from there. Best he could do I guess.

 

A lot of the guys are members at average places I can book at without much problem. I really don't know if there's been much growth in the game, aside from the range I go to being packed at peak times - I kind of attribute that to installing Top Tracer.

 

I am going to Kyoto Golf Club Kamigamo course next week for my second non-tournament round of the year. It's short, under 6,000 yards, but brutally narrow fairways, likely thick rough, tiny, heavily bunkered and sloping greens. It's a good challenge and some really fun holes.

 

I am not sure, but I think you have to no a member to get on. I'm going with my father in-law, his friend who has tiny bar in Gion and I don't know who the fourth is yet. Looking forward to it.

 

 

 

You've certainly got a larger selection of top courses around you in the Kyoto-Osaka-Kobe area compared to me in Fukuoka.

 

I've played The Classic, which held the women's Open in 2020 (no spectators due to Covid-19 unfortunately), and Wakamatsu, which is one of Fukuoka's older courses, but I've not played many of the exclusive courses around Hakata, such as Dazaifu or Koga.

 

One I'd really like to try is Moji; old school raised dome-shaped Korai greens. It's said to be very difficult.

 

Then again, I haven't played for over a month, so right now I'd be happy with the local goat track.

[TexasTurf]

Wonderful people. But excruciating deliberate slow play. 

[bcjim]

Interesting thread.  To me,  golf in Japan doesn't sound particularly appealing, tbh.

 

After finishing my swampy, nasty round this weekend,  I'd have gone full samurai on anyone suggesting I needed to take a hot bath with them.  

[JungleJimbo]

20 minutes ago, bcjim said:

Interesting thread.  To me,  golf in Japan doesn't sound particularly appealing, tbh.

 

After finishing my swampy, nasty round this weekend,  I'd have gone full samurai on anyone suggesting I needed to take a hot bath with them.  

"Full Samurai" in the hot bath? Surely you meant "Open Kimono"!?

 

 

 

Edited June 27, 2023 by JungleJimbo

[Christen_The_Sloop]

On 6/27/2023 at 8:58 PM, JungleJimbo said:

"Full Samurai" in the hot bath? Surely you meant "Open Kimono"!?

 

 

 

 

in Korea the flasher is known as "Burberry Man."

[huskydawg]

On 6/27/2023 at 4:54 AM, Jimi Thing said:

What I was wondering and am truly interested in is what golf is like for Japanese people. The options mentioned above sound wonderful, however I expect it will provide a non representative picture of what golf in Japan is like. Is there a way where I can experience golf close to how japanese people experience it?

Also tagging @JungleJimbo

 

I can only speak to my limited experience, but I have worked in a school for almost 4 years here.  In the Kansai region, golf is plentiful and you can book rounds online as far as I know.  My buddy takes care of that but I don't think you need to do anything special.  I could be wrong though (forms for address etc.)

 

Golf is a lifestyle sport.  People dress really nice in colorful, sharp clothes and enjoy their usually rare time off of work in this overworking culture.  I've never been paired with strangers, so I feel like it's a very in group activity, e.g. coworkers, friends, family, playing with only people you know.  If you don't have friends to play with, you miss out on that comradery aspect which is the main thing about golf in Japan.  Often experienced players pair up with inexperienced ones and they show them the ropes.  80s shooters could be paired with 120 or 130 shooters, skill doesn't matter so much. 

 

I feel like everything else you can experience like normal.  Driving to the course, usually no warm up range due to space limitations (go to a public range beforehand if you need to warm up), play (could be slow), marvel at the pristine course conditions, eat an amazing Japanese lunch, play the second 9, take a shower and bath or hot spring, drive home (in probably heavy traffic).  It is different, it will take all day but it's chill.  No need to finish in under 3 hours and hurry back home to do something else.

 

Most courses are out of the way in the mountains.  Using a car is a necessity, and you can get an international drivers license in the US at AAA.  

 

"Play 4" drops in the fairway for OB tee shots help speed things along.  This means to drop behind the yellow markers in the fairway and play your 4th shot.  Usually they're about 110 yards for par 4s and 200+ for par 5s.  This is to prevent pumping a half dozen balls into the woods OB on the same teebox.  You are welcome to play stroke and distance OB if you wish to though.

 

Some complaints, the automated carts are slow.  You can walk and operate them remotely but I'll always prefer driving to your ball like in the US.  I also dislike double greens.  They aren't at all courses, but they tend to be tiny and slopey and very tough to hit.  Fairways are really tight due to space limitations, you have to be really accurate.  Too many uphill shots to greens, I guess for drainage purposes.  Not enough people fix ball marks or rake bunkers, you'd think Japanese are caring for details but this is a worldwide phenomenon. 

 

That's about it.  Different experience but all things considered it's a lovely way to play.

Edited July 7, 2023 by huskydawg
minor edits

[JungleJimbo]

55 minutes ago, huskydawg said:

Also tagging @JungleJimbo

 

I can only speak to my limited experience, but I have worked in a school for almost 4 years here.  In the Kansai region, golf is plentiful and you can book rounds online as far as I know.  My buddy takes care of that but I don't think you need to do anything special.  I could be wrong though (forms for address etc.)

 

Golf is a lifestyle sport.  People dress really nice in colorful, sharp clothes and enjoy their usually rare time off of work in this overworking culture.  I've never been paired with strangers, so I feel like a very in group activity, e.g. coworkers, friends, family, playing with only people you know.  If you don't have friends to play with, you miss out on that comradery aspect which is the main thing about golf in Japan.  Often experienced players pair up with inexperienced ones and they show them the ropes.  80s shooters could be paired with 120 or 130 shooters, skill doesn't matter so much. 

 

I feel like everything else you can experience like normal.  Driving to the course, usually no warm up range due to space limitations (go to a public range beforehand if you need to warm up), play (could be slow), marvel at the pristine course conditions, eat an amazing Japanese lunch, play the second 9, take a shower and bath or hot spring, drive home (in probably heavy traffic).  It is different, it will take all day but it's chill.  No need to finish in under 3 hours and hurry back home to do something else.

 

Most courses are out of the way in the mountains.  Using a car is a necessity, and you can get an international drivers license in the US at AAA.  

 

"Play 4" drops in the fairway for OB tee shots help speed things along.  This means to drop behind the yellow markers in the fairway and play your 4th shot.  Usually they're about 110 yards for par 4s and 200+ for par 5s.  This is to prevent pumping a half dozen balls into the woods OB on the same teebox.

 

Some complaints, the automated carts are slow.  You can walk and operate them remotely but I'll always prefer driving to  your ball like in the US.  I also dislike double greens.  They aren't at all courses, but they tend to be tiny and slopey and very tough to hit.  Fairways are really tight due to space limitations, you have to be really accurate.  Too many uphill shots to greens, I guess for drainage purposes.  Not enough people fix ball marks or rake bunkers, you'd think Japanese are caring for details but this is a worldwide phenomenon. 

 

That's about it.  Different experience but all things considered it's a lovely way to play.

thanks @huskydawg this was really interesting!

[Jimi Thing]

Very insightful. Thank you!

[me05501]

 

I realize this is in Korea but it's a fun watch for anyone interested in the top-end Asian golf experience. 

[JungleJimbo]

informative tweet thread?