Across the Line

[tlinnert]

Is this a problem or playable? If a problem, what’s the best feel to correct this because I definitely don’t “feel” that across the line. 

[phizzy30]

I'm across the line at the top as well.  It's playable, but it means you need to make some compensations on the down swing because across the line usually means that you start the down swing steep.  As a result, you need to find a way to shallow out.  John Daly is extremely across the line and shallows out and he's done ok for himself considering his on and off course problems.  I play to a 4 cap so it's manageable.  It takes a bit more reps to maintain my swing. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by phizzy30

[cardoustie]

Interesting as your left wrist isn’t cupped

 

lots of players manage across the line … good position to hit draws from 

 

[tlinnert]

33 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

Interesting as your left wrist isn’t cupped

 

lots of players manage across the line … good position to hit draws from 

 

Hitting draws is definitely pretty natural for me. My miss is left but a lot of them stems from stalling out in my rotation and my arms flip to catch up. 
 

I hate the “look” of being that across the line but no matter what I do I can’t get it more laid off at the top. May just have to live with it. 

[tlinnert]

44 minutes ago, phizzy30 said:

I'm across the line at the top as well.  It's playable, but it means you need to make some compensations on the down swing because across the line usually means that you start the down swing steep.  As a result, you need to find a way to shallow out.  John Daly is extremely across the line and shallows out and he's done ok for himself considering his on and off course problems.  I play to a 4 cap so it's manageable.  It takes a bit more reps to maintain my swing. 

I play to an 8 currently and feel I shallow the club fairly naturally on my downswing. Ideally, I’d like to be a bit more laid off at the top (on plane) and then just rotate. Since I’m not there I do make a few compensations in my downswing and turn. 

[GoGoErky]

Your swing is pretty much arm driven and your left hip moves towards the ball in the backswing.

 

Fix the takeaway and hip movement.

[tlinnert]

6 minutes ago, GoGoErky said:

Your swing is pretty much arm driven and your left hip moves towards the ball in the backswing.

 

Fix the takeaway and hip movement.

Have definitely noticed that as well. I get a pretty full shoulder turn but my trail hip doesn’t really rotate. Instead my lead hip goes forward. It’s like a fake hip turn. 

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, tlinnert said:

Have definitely noticed that as well. I get a pretty full shoulder turn but my trail hip doesn’t really rotate. Instead my lead hip goes forward. It’s like a fake hip turn. 

You already have too much pelvis turn. What miss are you trying to correct? Do you have a face on? 

[tlinnert]

3 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

You already have too much pelvis turn. What miss are you trying to correct? Do you have a face on? 

Left miss all day long. Hips stall in transition and then arms flip at the bottom causing left miss. 

[MPStrat]

4 minutes ago, tlinnert said:

Left miss all day long. Hips stall in transition and then arms flip at the bottom causing left miss. 

 

Arms stay too wide too long/the setting of the arm and wrist structure happens late which is why the swing gets long and across. Essentially the structure of the levers has to start forming a lot earlier and you have to start your change of direction a lot sooner and more in sequence.

[MonteScheinblum]

Late vertical hinge, incorrect pelvis movement in backswing and downswing.

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, tlinnert said:

I hate the “look” of being that across the line but no matter what I do I can’t get it more laid off at the top. May just have to live with it. 

Without exaggeration, every single person that says "no matter what I do" either hasn't attempted or has but hasn't stuck *with* a couple basic fundamentals. What @MonteScheinblumand @MPStrat said is the core of it; you stay WAY too rigid and wide in your takeaway forcing the necessary hinging of the wrists and folding of the right arm to happen extremely late, something that you then create time for by WAY over-rotating your shoulders and hips. I'd bet that everything you've likely tried has been things around/added on top of this issue and not addressing it issue directly.

Do the AMG wrist set drill to give yourself an idea of what a correct wrist set is supposed to feel like and make practice shots as suggested
 

1 hour ago, tlinnert said:

I play to an 8 currently and feel I shallow the club fairly naturally on my downswing.

This is pretty much the one decent piece of metaphorical duct tape that is holding things together here, your ability to do this:



That is a big reroute in a good direction that saves an otherwise very poor position, but your left miss is still a product of the flaws this is helping you cover up. You shouldn't be thinking about anything other than what you're setting up, which is about 60*+ of "false" hip rotation, 130*+ of shoulder turn, and a club that you're having to rescue from somewhere in the Everglades. With that wrist set drill above will likely come the feeling that "this doesn't feel like a full swing anymore" which is GOOD. You're making nearly two full swings worth of movement here which is causing all your problems, so embrace the feeling of "less" as being in the right direction as it relates to your rotation and "more/earlier" as it relates to your wrist/arm hinging.
 

[tlinnert]

11 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Without exaggeration, every single person that says "no matter what I do" either hasn't attempted or has but hasn't stuck *with* a couple basic fundamentals. What @MonteScheinblumand @MPStrat said is the core of it; you stay WAY too rigid and wide in your takeaway forcing the necessary hinging of the wrists and folding of the right arm to happen extremely late, something that you then create time for by WAY over-rotating your shoulders and hips. I'd bet that everything you've likely tried has been things around/added on top of this issue and not addressing it issue directly.

Do the AMG wrist set drill to give yourself an idea of what a correct wrist set is supposed to feel like and make practice shots as suggested
 

This is pretty much the one decent piece of metaphorical duct tape that is holding things together here, your ability to do this:



That is a big reroute in a good direction that saves an otherwise very poor position, but your left miss is still a product of the flaws this is helping you cover up. You shouldn't be thinking about anything other than what you're setting up, which is about 60*+ of "false" hip rotation, 130*+ of shoulder turn, and a club that you're having to rescue from somewhere in the Everglades. With that wrist set drill above will likely come the feeling that "this doesn't feel like a full swing anymore" which is GOOD. You're making nearly two full swings worth of movement here which is causing all your problems, so embrace the feeling of "less" as being in the right direction as it relates to your rotation and "more/earlier" as it relates to your wrist/arm hinging.
 

This is great feedback. Thank you sir. Overhinging and arm runoff has long been a challenge. Will work on the wrist set drill. 

[tlinnert]

16 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Late vertical hinge, incorrect pelvis movement in backswing and downswing.

Would a chair drill help with the pelvis movement? Feeling my trail cheek move back against the chair and then feeling my lead cheek moving against it?

[MonteScheinblum]

43 minutes ago, tlinnert said:

Would a chair drill help with the pelvis movement? Feeling my trail cheek move back against the chair and then feeling my lead cheek moving against it?

It could And get some tilt in the hips

[Zitlow]

22 hours ago, MPStrat said:

 

Arms stay too wide too long/the setting of the arm and wrist structure happens late which is why the swing gets long and across. Essentially the structure of the levers has to start forming a lot earlier and you have to start your change of direction a lot sooner and more in sequence.

He must have watched the Keep the Right Arm Straight, Wow! video. 

[tlinnert]

15 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Without exaggeration, every single person that says "no matter what I do" either hasn't attempted or has but hasn't stuck *with* a couple basic fundamentals. What @MonteScheinblumand @MPStrat said is the core of it; you stay WAY too rigid and wide in your takeaway forcing the necessary hinging of the wrists and folding of the right arm to happen extremely late, something that you then create time for by WAY over-rotating your shoulders and hips. I'd bet that everything you've likely tried has been things around/added on top of this issue and not addressing it issue directly.

Do the AMG wrist set drill to give yourself an idea of what a correct wrist set is supposed to feel like and make practice shots as suggested
 

This is pretty much the one decent piece of metaphorical duct tape that is holding things together here, your ability to do this:



That is a big reroute in a good direction that saves an otherwise very poor position, but your left miss is still a product of the flaws this is helping you cover up. You shouldn't be thinking about anything other than what you're setting up, which is about 60*+ of "false" hip rotation, 130*+ of shoulder turn, and a club that you're having to rescue from somewhere in the Everglades. With that wrist set drill above will likely come the feeling that "this doesn't feel like a full swing anymore" which is GOOD. You're making nearly two full swings worth of movement here which is causing all your problems, so embrace the feeling of "less" as being in the right direction as it relates to your rotation and "more/earlier" as it relates to your wrist/arm hinging.
 

Worked today on letting my right arm fold, starting hinge a bit sooner and keeping swing more compact. I know it won’t be perfect in 24 hours but the AMG video helped. Focused on that drill in every swing today. 
 

 

[MPStrat]

Not a great angle but if I had to pick between your before swing and this one, the before is much better. 
 

The similarity between the two swings is that the arm and wrist structure is forming too late. So the problem still exists but your takeaway is just very outside. 
 

For your swing to look any different it will have to feel like your backswing is over at p2. That’s not possible with a takeaway that far outside. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by MPStrat

[tlinnert]

14 hours ago, MPStrat said:

Not a great angle but if I had to pick between your before swing and this one, the before is much better. 
 

The similarity between the two swings is that the arm and wrist structure is forming too late. So the problem still exists but your takeaway is just very outside. 
 

For your swing to look any different it will have to feel like your backswing is over at p2. That’s not possible with a takeaway that far outside. 

You are tough but fair sir. 

[Zitlow]

You can create more force swinging the club in a circular motion vs a linear motion. Swing the club around you not in front of you.

 

You're going one way and the club is going another way.   

 

 

He's in sync with the club. 

 

 

[tlinnert]

7 hours ago, Zitlow said:

You can create more force swinging the club in a circular motion vs a linear motion. Swing the club around you not in front of you.

 

You're going one way and the club is going another way.   

 

 

He's in sync with the club. 

 

 

That screenshot of me you posted is a bit of an exaggerated move resulting from the AMG video earlier in the thread (encouraging earlier wrist hinge). In that same sequence from the screenshot the swing ended up in the spot below. Is that more in synch? I know the takeaway looks weird because of the feel I’m trying get get earlier in the swing. Just wondering if it’s causing the club to get to a bad place. 
 

 

[tlinnert]

On 7/17/2023 at 6:29 PM, Zitlow said:

He must have watched the Keep the Right Arm Straight, Wow! video. 

Similar to this screenshot you took of my last swing to point out the right arm. If you go just a bit further you can see the right arm folds and doesn’t stay straight. 
 

Trying to make the point that I know my swing doesn’t look perfect in every position throughout and we can screen grab a spot and laugh about it. Just trying to determine if those lives are causing the club to get to a bad spot at the top (answer seems to be yes) and at impact (also yes)

[MPStrat]

8 minutes ago, tlinnert said:

Similar to this screenshot you took of my last swing to point out the right arm. If you go just a bit further you can see the right arm folds and doesn’t stay straight. 
 

Trying to make the point that I know my swing doesn’t look perfect in every position throughout and we can screen grab a spot and laugh about it. Just trying to determine if those lives are causing the club to get to a bad spot at the top (answer seems to be yes) and at impact (also yes)

Not laughing at you dude. Laughing at the weirdly aggressive marketing in golf instruction videos. 

[tlinnert]

4 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

Not laughing at you dude. Laughing at the weirdly aggressive marketing in golf instruction videos. 

That wasn’t at you my friend! I was reacting to Zitlows posts! By the way, totally okay with his posts. Just a follow up question. 
 

Appreciate the time you took to provide feedback. I actually really liked that AMG video you shared. 

[Chunkitgood]

This may be of interest:

 

 

[Sean124]

 

Sorry, had to. 

[Zitlow]

The shaft should be bisecting your body at this point. Your shaft is so vertical that you're out of sync with the club and all you can do is pull down with your left arm 

 

 

and stand up at impact. 

 

 

 

[Felton]

Hard to see in second video, but from looking at the first one you could be doing what i have been doing for years until i recently had a qualified and highly-educated instructor spot the issue. This is where you lose your right arm structure early and 'lift' the club up and out in a linear motion in an attempt to keep the club face strong. It gets you across the line and it gives you nothing to release later in the swing. I bet like me, you have an absolute tonne of reverse pivot at the top from front on view? Do you get any lower back pain too after a full round or range session?  You could try focus on your trail elbow and letting it fold more naturally and getting your wrists set sooner. Basically from takeaway, rather than trying to keep club face shut and lifting the club dominated by an upper body hinge, you could try keeping your right arm more connected to your body and then let it naturally 'fold away' as the wrists load, letting the face fan open a little more at the top. As a visual, think of the position your right arm would be in if you were about to do a dumb-bell curl, or how your arm and wrist would be bent/set if you were going to skip a stone across a pond in the direction of the target line.

[tlinnert]

19 hours ago, Felton said:

Hard to see in second video, but from looking at the first one you could be doing what i have been doing for years until i recently had a qualified and highly-educated instructor spot the issue. This is where you lose your right arm structure early and 'lift' the club up and out in a linear motion in an attempt to keep the club face strong. It gets you across the line and it gives you nothing to release later in the swing. I bet like me, you have an absolute tonne of reverse pivot at the top from front on view? Do you get any lower back pain too after a full round or range session?  You could try focus on your trail elbow and letting it fold more naturally and getting your wrists set sooner. Basically from takeaway, rather than trying to keep club face shut and lifting the club dominated by an upper body hinge, you could try keeping your right arm more connected to your body and then let it naturally 'fold away' as the wrists load, letting the face fan open a little more at the top. As a visual, think of the position your right arm would be in if you were about to do a dumb-bell curl, or how your arm and wrist would be bent/set if you were going to skip a stone across a pond in the direction of the target line.

Much of this is spot on. The takeaway is the result of both trying to get width and keeping the club face is a strong position. Reverse pivot was a problem I had until I worked with an instructor. It’s still there but not as much. Here is a face on video. Will definitely work on the tips you provided. Thanks!