Players with speed - using GI irons and swinging super smooth?

[bryanwmilburn]

I'm considering a new methodology with my irons and am curious if anyone has done it. I sit around 175 ball speed with the driver on course so speed is not really an issue for me. What I'm considering doing is getting some game improvement/strong lofted irons and just swinging super controlled at like 70% for accuracy purposes and to have that GI forgiveness without hitting nukes. Has anyone done this? If so - what were your results? I'm thinking the smooth swing will be offset by the lofts and my distances should be about the same as I'm hitting it now with my MB/CB combo. Let me know!

[me05501]

If you like your current irons why not just club up? A ton of pros recommend taking a smooth swing with more club as a way of hitting more greens. 

[picardyThird]

I find it extremely difficult to consciously slow down my swing enough to properly time softer shafts. I've put so much work into full speed swings (or very specific partial swings) that muscle memory has set in and I don't have to think about it (and I can focus on other things like face and path). Adding another variable would just make things more difficult and frustrating for me.

[bryanwmilburn]

16 minutes ago, me05501 said:

If you like your current irons why not just club up? A ton of pros recommend taking a smooth swing with more club as a way of hitting more greens. 

Because that eliminates the forgiveness variable of the benefit of using GI irons. I'd like to keep same "club" distances but it'd be hard to do that swinging smooth with my current blade/CB combo. It would create too large of a gap near the top end as I transition into hybrids/woods.

[me05501]

11 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Because that eliminates the forgiveness variable of the benefit of using GI irons. I'd like to keep same "club" distances but it'd be hard to do that swinging smooth with my current blade/CB combo. It would create too large of a gap near the top end as I transition into hybrids/woods.

 

I hear you. It just seems like a really big change you're considering and it could derail your game for a while if you don't get it quite right. 

 

Fortunately with ebay it's pretty easy to get one club to try before committing to a whole set. 

[bryanwmilburn]

1 minute ago, me05501 said:

 

I hear you. It just seems like a really big change you're considering and it could derail your game for a while if you don't get it quite right. 

 

Fortunately with ebay it's pretty easy to get one club to try before committing to a whole set. 

Great point - I might do that! I'll say my biggest point of apprehension is less than ideal lies out of the rough. One of the biggest benefits to having speed is being able to gouge out of bad lies. If I hit it in the rough I think that will be the hardest one to judge and I'll probably be inconsistent out of it. 

[me05501]

2 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Great point - I might do that! I'll say my biggest point of apprehension is less than ideal lies out of the rough. One of the biggest benefits to having speed is being able to gouge out of bad lies. If I hit it in the rough I think that will be the hardest one to judge and I'll probably be inconsistent out of it. 

 

That's a good example and there are probably other differences you won't care about until you're out there having to hit shots on the course. 

 

 

 

 

[Duffman57]

9 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Great point - I might do that! I'll say my biggest point of apprehension is less than ideal lies out of the rough. One of the biggest benefits to having speed is being able to gouge out of bad lies. If I hit it in the rough I think that will be the hardest one to judge and I'll probably be inconsistent out of it. 

So I think for me personally since I'm in the same boat as you are (have speed but need forgiveness), the idea of swinging slow really derails my ability to keep consistent distances and honestly, my natural instinct is to swing hard, so when I have another swing thought, I revert to swinging more aggressively than controlled. I'm a 15 handicap touching 120 driver swing speed, and in a recent fitting hit 103 clubhead with a 7 iron.

 

I think your better option would be trying to get something like the i230/i210's, which is a very forgiving, but more player focused iron. The T-MB kind of does the same thing since its not as aggressively lofted.  But it also depends on what your miss is.  I've noticed that if you miss more thin than anything like I do, it's not super beneficial to get into those game improvemnt irons, just focus on irons that have a lower COG. If it's heel/toe forgiveness you're looking for the titleist and ping irons are your best bet since both are super highly MOI focused.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Duffman57

[Albatross Dreamer]

The whole theoretical point of taking a smoother swing is that you'll have better contact. If you're already playing blades/players irons why not just stay with those and take advantage of the better distance control/precision? Or since you like Srixons why not something like ZX5 MK ii vs super GI.

 

I'd change irons OR change swing to start, otherwise you don't know which variable is truly making the difference. Like others have said intentionally trying to change your speed can jack things up as well. 

[Duffman57]

4 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

The whole theoretical point of taking a smoother swing is that you'll have better contact. If you're already playing blades/players irons why not just stay with those and take advantage of the better distance control/precision? Or since you like Srixons why not something like ZX5 MK ii vs super GI.

 

I'd change irons OR change swing to start, otherwise you don't know which variable is truly making the difference. Like others have said intentionally trying to change your speed can jack things up as well. 

But in this case its about making sure that he's not carrying his irons ridiculous distances.  It might help with contact but if he's still struggling with strike even slowed down the forgiveness is still needed compared to blades.  I'm in a position where in a fitting the callaway rep gave me the paradym irons and I carried the 7i 212 on one of the shots, which would basically be detrimental to my game and gapping, and he's about the same speed as me.  The zx5 MKII's are also pretty strongly lofted for what they are, but not terrible.  Coming from blades it might be a pretty big adjustment in terms of sole width.

[dfeldss]

Think it'd be easier to work on your ball striking with the swing you have now than just trying to dial it back to 70%.

 

Sounds like a recipe for awful distance control

[Albatross Dreamer]

8 minutes ago, Duffman57 said:

But in this case its about making sure that he's not carrying his irons ridiculous distances.  It might help with contact but if he's still struggling with strike even slowed down the forgiveness is still needed compared to blades.  I'm in a position where in a fitting the callaway rep gave me the paradym irons and I carried the 7i 212 on one of the shots, which would basically be detrimental to my game and gapping, and he's about the same speed as me.  The zx5 MKII's are also pretty strongly lofted for what they are, but not terrible.  Coming from blades it might be a pretty big adjustment in terms of sole width.

Yeah I agree with you, just saying I think the idea sounds better in theory then it might play out in practice. Doesn't mean it couldn't work, just that would be cautious with the approach. Especially going from blades to GI. That's skipping over a bunch of categories (for example, Srixon has the zx7 & zx5 before getting to the GI zx4) and like you said could play completely different. I mentioned the ZX5s since can bend them weak, but won't be overly thick soled. In my mind if he's swinging slower, but it's making his striking worse than it defeats the whole purpose of the change. Perhaps the cheapest way to try it out is simply bending one or two of his current irons strong and see what happens and if wants to further go down this path.

[Pnwpingi210]

42 minutes ago, Duffman57 said:

So I think for me personally since I'm in the same boat as you are (have speed but need forgiveness), the idea of swinging slow really derails my ability to keep consistent distances and honestly, my natural instinct is to swing hard, so when I have another swing thought, I revert to swinging more aggressively than controlled. I'm a 15 handicap touching 120 driver swing speed, and in a recent fitting hit 103 clubhead with a 7 iron.

 

I think your better option would be trying to get something like the i230/i210's, which is a very forgiving, but more player focused iron. The T-MB kind of does the same thing since its not as aggressively lofted.  But it also depends on what your miss is.  I've noticed that if you miss more thin than anything like I do, it's not super beneficial to get into those game improvemnt irons, just focus on irons that have a lower COG. If it's heel/toe forgiveness you're looking for the titleist and ping irons are your best bet since both are super highly MOI focused.

I like the suggestion for ping i210 or i230 based on your ask.

 

Very very forgiving.  Left/right workable.  Distance is very consistent across many swing speeds.  
 

I’m of similar speed as you and played the I210 power spec.  My 110 percent swing and 75  percent swing flew roughly the same distance, the only difference was apex/peak height.  The full swing apexes around 130ft and the 75 swing apexes around 100.  Both would fly about 175 with a 7 iron at sea level

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I might be out of turn here, but isn't fast supposed to be smooth? 😄 😄 😄

I'll see myself out....... 💨

 

[Duffman57]

2 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

Yeah I agree with you, just saying I think the idea sounds better in theory then it might play out in practice. Doesn't mean it couldn't work, just that would be cautious with the approach. Especially going from blades to GI. That's skipping over a bunch of categories (for example, Srixon has the zx7 & zx5 before getting to the GI zx4) and like you said could play completely different. I mentioned the ZX5s since can bend them weak, but won't be overly thick soled. In my mind if he's swinging slower, but it's making his striking worse than it defeats the whole purpose of the change. Perhaps the cheapest way to try it out is simply bending one or two of his current irons strong and see what happens and if wants to further go down this path.

I think he refers to that range as game improvements from what I’m gathering at least. A lot of better players will call that t200, p790, zx5 range “game improvement” and the next step down super game improvement. So it’s hard to tell what range he was talking about. 

[bryanwmilburn]

2 hours ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

The whole theoretical point of taking a smoother swing is that you'll have better contact. If you're already playing blades/players irons why not just stay with those and take advantage of the better distance control/precision? Or since you like Srixons why not something like ZX5 MK ii vs super GI.

 

I'd change irons OR change swing to start, otherwise you don't know which variable is truly making the difference. Like others have said intentionally trying to change your speed can jack things up as well. 

Actually the ZX5 are exactly what I was considering giving a go so you're spot on!

[Duffman57]

2 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Actually the ZX5 are exactly what I was considering giving a go so you're spot on!

What does your miss tend to be? Heel? Toe? Thin?

[Duffman57]

2 hours ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I like the suggestion for ping i210 or i230 based on your ask.

 

Very very forgiving.  Left/right workable.  Distance is very consistent across many swing speeds.  
 

I’m of similar speed as you and played the I210 power spec.  My 110 percent swing and 75  percent swing flew roughly the same distance, the only difference was apex/peak height.  The full swing apexes around 130ft and the 75 swing apexes around 100.  Both would fly about 175 with a 7 iron at sea level

What the poster with the name ping i210 in their name Is promoting the ping i series? Didn’t see that one coming 😂😂😂

[bryanwmilburn]

Everybody is spot on with what I'm thinking. Heck - to go even one step further - has anyone considered going stronger lofted irons and just hitting 3/4 shots? I notice that my strike is almost always solid when I hit 3/4 shots but of course distance is shorter. I could consider going something like ZX5 and hitting 3/4 irons all the time if it meant my strike and window was good but maintain the same distances I'm hitting it now. 

 

I'm an overthinker 😄

[bryanwmilburn]

2 minutes ago, Duffman57 said:

What does your miss tend to be? Heel? Toe? Thin?

I'd say generally toe side, but more importantly I'm directionally inconsistent. I do find myself generally more accurate either hitting smooth or knock down shots, so that's why I'm kind of considering something stronger lofted and hitting those type of shots as my "stock" iron swing to keep my current distances.

[Pnwpingi210]

5 minutes ago, Duffman57 said:

What the poster with the name ping i210 in their name Is promoting the ping i series? Didn’t see that one coming 😂😂😂

Touché 

 

I played a set in 2020-2021 🙂

 

long journey to get to pxg 0317 cb as gamers and tcb as backups.

 

 

[Pnwpingi210]

7 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Everybody is spot on with what I'm thinking. Heck - to go even one step further - has anyone considered going stronger lofted irons and just hitting 3/4 shots? I notice that my strike is almost always solid when I hit 3/4 shots but of course distance is shorter. I could consider going something like ZX5 and hitting 3/4 irons all the time if it meant my strike and window was good but maintain the same distances I'm hitting it now. 

 

I'm an overthinker 😄

I’ve tried that route.  

Easy in concept on the range, harder in execution on the course.  Adrenaline and I started to over think what club to hit when I was in between clubs.

[Duffman57]

7 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

I'd say generally toe side, but more importantly I'm directionally inconsistent. I do find myself generally more accurate either hitting smooth or knock down shots, so that's why I'm kind of considering something stronger lofted and hitting those type of shots as my "stock" iron swing to keep my current distances.

That’s fair. I mean Tommy Fleetwood plays exclusively knockdowns. It just forces you to rotate more and stay down on the shot. So I’m sure you got some early extension or lack of rotation stuff going on like every other amateur out there. I don’t think that’s a bad way to go. But if your miss is toe side and you’re looking at the zx5 s the i230s are made for you. And with more traditional lofts you’d be in good shape playing a knockdown more consistently 

[Duffman57]

12 minutes ago, bryanwmilburn said:

Everybody is spot on with what I'm thinking. Heck - to go even one step further - has anyone considered going stronger lofted irons and just hitting 3/4 shots? I notice that my strike is almost always solid when I hit 3/4 shots but of course distance is shorter. I could consider going something like ZX5 and hitting 3/4 irons all the time if it meant my strike and window was good but maintain the same distances I'm hitting it now. 

 

I'm an overthinker 😄

It just brings into play that you might have shots at 50 and 100% that sneak in to put you short or long in trouble. That’s the bigger issue. I would say if you’re going to go this route. Go the 100% knockdown route and still go after the ball 

[bryanwmilburn]

Great feedback in here! I’ll do a little trial period where I hit 3/4 shots the majority of the time and see where my numbers are and how successful I am. If the direction and consistency is good - I’ll evaluate distances and see if stronger lofts are needed then go from there!

[NRJyzr]

7 hours ago, bryanwmilburn said:

I'm considering a new methodology with my irons and am curious if anyone has done it. I sit around 175 ball speed with the driver on course so speed is not really an issue for me. What I'm considering doing is getting some game improvement/strong lofted irons and just swinging super controlled at like 70% for accuracy purposes and to have that GI forgiveness without hitting nukes. Has anyone done this? If so - what were your results? I'm thinking the smooth swing will be offset by the lofts and my distances should be about the same as I'm hitting it now with my MB/CB combo. Let me know!

 

When I had some speed, I tried experimenting with a friend's G20's.  I found that no matter how smooth I swung, I would balloon the short irons.

 

Edit:  another issue is that with many (most?) sets in that category, there can be a number of 5* gaps in the short and even mid irons.  You could find yourself with some 20+ yd gaps between clubs (at your speed).

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by NRJyzr

[JAMH03]

Overall I think it's a great idea, the 1st thing it reminds me of is Nick Faldo he's a big dude and he was not long relative to his peers because he'd worked so hard to have an incredibly neutral swing that he used to hit great approach shots again and again. Winning majors in diverse conditions.

His videos with Leadbetter were incredible for me in terms of his tempo it was other worldly.

I've always been a decent SS guy but never high SS. I've tried the approach hitting irons at 70% and it didn't work for me at all. The reason it didn't work was because 80-85% effort SS works best.

I say works best based on my "testing" I've tried to hit irons from 100% to 65% and as I mentioned for me 80-90% of a full swing is most repeatable and most accurate. I'd be shocked it that wasn't true for most other people too.

Certainly most of the posters in this thread are intimating similar experiances.

Faldo goes into his swing length with short irons and driver in the long for of the video and it becomes apparent why people have bigger misses with the longer clubs. Much longer swing with much longer clubs and less spin.

Sure the SGI heads help but not more than a comfortable, super repeatable swing and that typically takes MORE than 70% effort.

It's absolutely worth a shot to see how little effort you can put into iron swings and get consistent results though.

Buying a set of irons for this experiment is not at all worth it in terms of time nor expense though. A single iron or 4 might be worth it. Personally I'd be interested in maximizing my iron shaft fit though as you're trying to hone your approach game.

I say that because... I'm a handsy player and shafts that have an extremely consistent kick point work so much better for my misses.

I've seen people w/speed who could dial in some shafts and not others so that looks like an opportunity to improve your iron play as well.

So yes on knockdowns and smoothies! The question is what effort is most accurate and repeatable.

Also great point about SS helping with bad lies. Good news is you'll have that as long as you keep exercising.
 

 

Edited August 10, 2023 by JAMH03
Added some info

[bladehunter]

It won’t work op.  I’ll tell you exactly what will happen.  
 

 

you’ll see that 210 yard 7 iron one time and poof. You’re hitting them hard. You’ve got a 150 yard pw and a 30 yard gap down to your gap wedge. A year form now you’ll get tired of not scoring and you’ll go back to the old set. 

[Chunkitgood]

You shots will fall out of the air from lack of spin, is my prediction.

[SollyinGA]

I have a slower ball speed OP (average mid 150s) and have just concluded my experiment using Mizuno JPX 923 HMPs for a month. 
 

It just doesn’t work for me. Hitting a smoothed out PW 150 yards is fun, but not very practical. My last straw was air mailing greens by 20 yards while 150 yards out with a smoothed out 9 iron with flyer lies. Yeah it’s kinda fun until you start noticing your scores at the end of rounds.

 

I will say, it does make the game much easier hitting 230 yard 4 irons off the tee straight down the middle of the fairway. Long iron play is really fun with the more forgiving clubs, but 230 yard tee shots still put you behind the 8-ball for your second shot. For tight holes, it’s a no brainer in my book now.

 

I will also add, that the experiment did cause me to have a longer putts than I’m used to having. If I was hitting  with an iron on approach shots,  you do get a little more roll out even with +45 degree landing angles. I also was not as accurate on approaches.  I definitely missed more greens than I normally did.

 

Clubs like the Z5 series, Miz 223, Ping i230 would be much better for this than the HMPs that I used. HMP were probably to hot for my experiment, but the forgiveness was unlike anything that I had ever used.

 

The best of both worlds is having a combo set of irons. You do have to put in a little work closing all of your gaps between clubs, but it is so worth it.

 

Currently I’m gaming T100s from 6i-P, 5i is a T200, 4i is a U505. So far so good for me.

Edited August 11, 2023 by SollyinGA