What to get past 5i?

[Chunkitgood]

It’s not like the 4 iron is 20 degrees like some sets have.  If you can hit the 27 degree 5 you might not have as much trouble with the 24 degree 4 as you expect.

 

A huge percentage of golfers of any category you might name score better with a certain type of clubs, but they aren’t you.  An overwhelming number of golfers swing slower than you and hit up on the ball instead of down.

 

Don’t sell yourself short.

[bodhi555]

If you have no problems hitting a 5 iron and want something close to it to fill a gap I see absolutely no reason why a 4 iron wouldn't work. I almost find it kind of ironic that now the prevailing wisdom in golf is (wrongly) moving away from long irons, just at the point that long irons have become easier to hit than ever. A 4 iron in any of the GI/SGI ranges of your chosen manufacturer will in all likelihood be just as easy to launch as a hybrid off a decent lie - main way hybrids earn their salt if from dodgy lies in my experience.

 

Right now if I was to buy a specialist 4 iron it would be a P770 with the same shaft as your irons. I've got the 3 iron and its ridiculous how easy it is to hit off both deck and tee.

[eric61]

17 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

 

yes that is correct, 5i is 27 degrees.  the 4i which I don't have is 24 degrees.  I think I'm gonna order that to have it in 6 weeks to match my set, but quite possibly I will still end up using a hybrid (or 7w) instead anyway.

 

it definitely is a big gap.  I tried adjusting the Paradym to 23 degrees, but still a big gap, and I'm not liking the way it hits that way either.   

 

There is a 24 degree paradym also(considered like 5h), which I also tried briefly, and I need to try it out some more, I plan to bring my 5i with me to the shop next time to calibrate against their monitor to make sure whatever I am trying is 10-15 yards longer.  I should also try the Paradigm X 5h.  

 

or other brands, I'm not sold on the paradym at the moment.   I'm gonna return this one tomorrow.

 

You mentioned "lower launching", what is your reasoning behind wanting lower launch?  

 

 

I mentioned a lower launching option because depending on your delivery, you might hit the 24 degree Paradym hybrid too high, which could lead to inconsistent distances. That’s what I found when I tried to replace the 4 iron spot with a 24 degree Paradym hybrid.

 

Another route to consider would be strengthening your 5 iron by a degree to 26 and getting the JPX Forged 4 iron, which is 22 degrees and a bit more forgiving.

[Dewdman42]

You know I am actually trying to sell a 921 forged set right now, so maybe I will pull the 5 and 4 from that set and try them out a bit as my 200 club.  But I just want to say that the reason I am getting rid of them and went with tours was due to poor distance control especially in the longer irons.  For me the 4 and 5 of that set roll a lot.  It was very hard for me to get past 40 degrees landing angle.  So even the 5i, which is same loft as the tour’s 4i, would roll quite far especially if hitting a green.  The spin and descent angle both match a 4i, except a shorter shaft.  Seems like I could just choke up on the tour 4i and basically have the same thing, and the forged 4i will go past the gap in question for sure.  
 

but since i have them I should try it before getting rid of the 921 set, no doubt.  It would be useful data points.

 

the way I see it l, there is a natural threshold gap created by lower lofts.  At some point the decent angle goes too low below 45 degrees with not enough spin and then suddenly the next club will be a big gap there due to crossing that threshold.  More club head speed might spin it up higher and stop quicker  but I don’t possess that.  I probably need to practice trying to fine tune just the right amount of dynamic loft to get a bit more loft out of my long irons, not entirely sure that is something to work on for sure,  it’s one reason a lot of people choose hybrids or 7w’s out that far.  However my 4 hybrid typically still flights a bit lower than I would like and ends up rolling past that gap a lot.  Not always though.

 

for sure I think my well struck 21 degree anything carries too far and then rolls even further to be my 200 club.  I need to try some 23-24 degree things and compare against my 5i and try to find something that will just carry a little bit more and still spins enough and goes high enough to descend closer to 40-45 and stay on the green.

 

in the forged set that would be the 5i but I would probably desire a 4i shaft.  Which brings me back to just ordering the tour 4i and if that doesn’t work out then try out a bunch of 24 degree hybrids to see what will fill that duty.

 

and I will make a point to try some 7w’s because some of you seem happy about it

[Dewdman42]

I do appreciate all the comments it is good to hear what other people are doing to deal with  200 yards

[SwingMan]

On 8/13/2023 at 3:27 PM, Dewdman42 said:

Have recently updated my irons and trying to decide what to do for the good ol' 4 iron dilema.  Probably a hybrid.  what we are talking about is something for 200 yards.  My 5i shots sometimes roll out to 200, but usually are in the 190-195 range total...185 carry.  

 

I recently bought the Paradym 21 degree hybrid.  Feels nice.  I hit it too long though for the gap after my 5i.  I already tried setting its loft to 23 degrees, which helps a bit, but still I have a pretty decent gap there around 200-205.  

 

Trying to decide if I should take this hybrid back and rethink, I have 90 days.  Or plan to choke up on it for 200 yards...or get a 24 degree hybrid, the next one which is really considered more like a 5h.  But at the shop I was not hitting the Paradym 24 degree 5 nearly as far as the 4h.  IN fact its distance was quite in line with my 5i.  I even tried changing  its loft to 23 degrees, but but the two clubs set to 23 degrees go different distances for me with a pretty decent gap still.  But I could try it more..

 

But anyway my general question is how to best deal with this 200-205 gap I have, too far for 5i, too short for for the 21 degree hybrid, probably a lot of it is that the Paradym 4h rolls quite a bit further then my 5i.  any suggestions welcome.

 

I swing driver about ~100mph,  7i is ~85mph.  

 

 

 

Higher launch shaft with more spin to get more height with the Paradym, and/or grip down .5 inches

[Dewdman42]

Well now you also have me wondering if I should order the tour 4i with a different shaft then what inhave in the rest of the set ( project x io 6.0)

[Dewdman42]

And also I am wondering if this might be the time to see a dedicated fitter with just this gap in mind

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

I agree with the others with regards to the 4-Iron. If you strike a 5-Iron well there's no reason really to can the 4-Iron. Hybrids can be pretty hot. I prefer to bias toward the 3-Wood because if I get too much loft on a hybrid I'll have too big of a gap between the 3W and the hybrid.

That's just me, though. Definitely see a fitter, try different shafts and find the magic fit for you. Lots of people like the PX Iron Shafts, but it wasn't my friend at my fitting. 😄 DG120 and I became besties instead...... But that's just me.

[tilasan]

As someone who has tried everything. If you want the easiest to hit, high and soft, 200 yard shots? 9 wood.

[Dewdman42]

I'm gonna a try to find a way to try that too.  thanks!

[ALIF]

If your five iron is 27° then the next club whether it be hybrid or fairway wood should probably be 2° stronger to give you good gapping. Any stronger than that you will have too much of a gap. I think I mentioned earlier I play a 24° nine wood but my five iron is 26°. The gap between those two is probably 15 yards. Basically the nine wood is a four iron replacement.  maybe even a 1° gap between the hybrid/fairway wood and next iron would be just right depending on your swing speed.  Also the thing about the fairway wood or hybrid with that high of a loft is they just want to go far, high, and straight pretty easily compared to an iron with that degree of loft (a good thing) which I'm sure you already know but I just wanted to state that.

[Dewdman42]

 

6 minutes ago, ALIF said:

If your five iron is 27° then the next club whether it be hybrid or fairway wood should probably be 2° stronger to give you good gapping. Any stronger than that you will have too much of a gap. I think I mentioned earlier I play a 24° nine wood but my five iron is 26°. The gap between those two is probably 15 yards. Basically the nine wood is a four iron replacement.  maybe even a 1° gap between the hybrid/fairway wood and next iron would be just right depending on your swing speed.  Also the thing about the fairway wood or hybrid with that high of a loft is they just want to go far, high, and straight pretty easily compared to an iron with that degree of loft (a good thing) which I'm sure you already know but I just wanted to state that.

 

Yea clearly I need to try some more options and a lot of different ideas have been given here.  I think i agree with you about the gapping starting to widen a lot per degree loft as you get to the long end of the bag.  

 

I feel the problem at hand here is that for me and I think most golfers....we have whatever swing speed we have and it's not likely to get much faster.  I'm 58 years old, mine is likely to slow down soon.  So for the most part we can just use stronger and stronger lofts to go further and further...except for one problem...  that is that at some launch angle, our swing speed and launch angle are simply not enough to get a nice steep descent angle.  The ball doesn't go high enough and the result will be a drastic jump in roll out right at that threshold.  creating a gap.  it's a descent angle threshold, with a rolled out gap.

 

I think this threshold is probably a little different for everyone and depends on swing speed, where exactly the critical loft angle will be that crosses this threshold into long rollout.  Resulting in a giant gap right there at that threshold.  Probably depends a lot also on how much shaft lean each golfer gets.   For me that threshold is somewhere right in the 22 degree area, give or take a few degrees and distance wise it's in the 190-210 yard range, give or take.  

 

I am finding that the typical 4h, with 21-22 degrees of loft..  goes too far...and mainly due to significant more roll then 5i.   The ball doesn't go high enough.   It's possible I need to work on sweeping my hybrid shots more and releasing in a way to develop less shaft lean at contact, or something of this nature.  when its this close to the "threshold", the execution has to be perfect in order to get consistent manageable roll and distance control while achieving that long distance with whatever moderate swing speed I have.

 

its possible I need to keep trying various combinations of shaft length and loft and possibly different shafts (hint, use a fitter), in order to get the height i need and low enough loft to carry 190-195 and not roll past 210.   it literally could be finding exactly the right combination that will get me that last ounce of distance I can get before crossing that threshold to long rollout.  I don't mind if I have a big gap after 210.

 

I am not opposed to trying out some GI 5i's also to see if one of them will get the ball far and high enough to descent steep and stop.  Worth a try anyway.  But my experience is that these are designed more to fly the ball as far as possible not necessarily to control the roll.   They tend to use shorter shafts with stronger lofts.  Maybe some of them have some low CG stuff to allegedly launch higher, or trampoline faces to maybe get some ball speed if and when you hit it perfectly.

 

with Hybrids and FW's there is a lot more low CG and ability to launch higher from a lower loft and less swing speed, so that is probably what I need to find, but it will still be a matter of finding exactly the right combination of loft and shaft to put it into that 190-210 zone without crossing the rollout threshold and probably fine tuning my hybrid swing to less shaft lean.

 

I think what I probably need is something that is more like my standard 4i, with ~24 degrees of loft, but long enough shaft to get a bit more ball speed out of it.   that would have to be a 923Tour 4i, or else some custom build hybrid if I want a bit more forgiveness.  Otherwise it would be about trying a bunch of FW's to see if one of them will have just the right combination of loft and shaft to deliver 100 feet of height and ~4k spin that carries 195ish.

 

Or just give up this task and lay up my 200 yarders....

 

[nvr3putt]

22 hours ago, bodhi555 said:

If you have no problems hitting a 5 iron and want something close to it to fill a gap I see absolutely no reason why a 4 iron wouldn't work. I almost find it kind of ironic that now the prevailing wisdom in golf is (wrongly) moving away from long irons, just at the point that long irons have become easier to hit than ever. A 4 iron in any of the GI/SGI ranges of your chosen manufacturer will in all likelihood be just as easy to launch as a hybrid off a decent lie - main way hybrids earn their salt if from dodgy lies in my experience.

 

Right now if I was to buy a specialist 4 iron it would be a P770 with the same shaft as your irons. I've got the 3 iron and its ridiculous how easy it is to hit off both deck and tee.

I think OEMs have done an outstanding job marketing the more expensive hybrids and woods as replacements for longer irons and convincing people these are 'easier and longer' clubs. 

 

[Pepperturbo]

I am 70+yrs young, and currently use a T200 22' 4i with MMT 95-S shaft (38.5") that covers 180-195 spot; it surprises me at times "how sweet it is."  My next club is a T200 17' 2 iron with PX Hzrdus Smoke Black Hybrid shaft (39.75") that works nicely 200-215+ yds.  Max yardage all depends on how hard I go after each of them.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Pepperturbo

[ALIF]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

I am 70+yrs young, and currently use a T200 22' 4i with MMT 95-S shaft (38.5") that covers 180-195 spot; it surprises me at times "how sweet it is."  My next club is a T200 17' 2 iron with PX Hzrdus Smoke Black Hybrid shaft (39.75") that works nicely 200-215+ yds.  Max yardage all depends on how hard I go after each of them.

Just out of curiosity, what is your average driver swing speed? How high do you launch that 4 iron? Or maybe a better question would be what is the peak height of your 4 iron?

[Dewdman42]

driver swing speed is ~100.  7i is ~85.  

 

I don't have a 4i yet with this set.  I ordered without and it will be 6 weeks to order one.  

 

Previously i had 921Forged set, which I am in the process of selling, but I had 4i with that set, but it has 20 degree loft and plays more like a choked up 3i.  I didn't hit it very much to give you numbers, but I can safely say I was not hitting it 100 feet high very much, if at all.   The 5i from that set is 24 degrees and I want to go hit it some more in the next few days to remind me what its numbers were.  it plays like a choked up 4i.

 

[Titleist_PT23]

16 hours ago, Dewdman42 said:

...

Or just give up this task and lay up my 200 yarders....

 

I have about a 20 yard carry gap between a 21* 7W and a 25* iron.  I prefer matching clubs (same look, feel, way the ball comes off the face, etc), but the OEM didn't make a 24* 9W and I can't hit a 22* iron with the right ballflight.

 

I just got tired of trying to find the perfect club to fit between these two (and as alluded to above, I don't like one club with a different look, setup, feel).  End result is I pick one of the two I have in the bag and live with being a bit long or a bit short.  Not ideal to "play your best" but for a recreational golfer shooting in the high 70s or low 80s, it just didn't matter that much.  More shots are lost here due to bad contact than the gap in the bag from this distance (approaching 200 yards).

 

But it is fun to look at stuff, so give it a try and see if you can find something...

[zengineer]

AW-5 Iron, 5 Hybrid (24 deg), 5 Wood, 3 wood, driver works for me.  4H was too much gap to the 5 Iron and too close to the 5 wood.   7 wood wasn't a bad fit but I am more comfortable with the hybrid.

[erikro]

I play G425 throughout the bag. Above 5 iron is 4 iron, 3H, 3W, D

Edited August 16, 2023 by erikro

[Dewdman42]

I ordered the 4i last night to match my 923Tour set.  it will be a long time until i get it though because I am heading abroad through the end of the year and Mizuno has something like 6 week turnaround time.  In any case I might still look at a few more hybrids before I go, will have the 4i to look forward to around xmas time just in time for ski season.

 

last night tried out a couple more things, paradym 7w and stealth 24 degree hybrid.  both rolled out 20 yards to 220, missing my desired gap of 195-210 total.  The Stealth hybrid has a large variation of distance depending on how its struck, if I release ever so slightly sooner then irons to reduce or eliminate shaft lean at impact, and choke up about 1/2 inch, I could hit it into the desired distance with less then 20 yards roll.  But very much too easy to hit it longer and miss the gap.  In general I prefer missing short then missing long.

 

Plan to try out the Paradym X 5h (24 degree).  Also want to test a 9w.  Beyond that, at this point I will just play what I have and wait for that 4i to see how it goes.

 

 I also pulled an old TaylorMade 2009 Rescue (24 degree) hybrid I had in storage and plan to try it today maybe since that was pre-burner and pre-rocketbalz dayz and it might not sail them quite so far..I don't remember ever being able to hit it 200 yards before, but i'm better now, so maybe I will. 

 

Planing to test out today my 921Forged 5i (24 degree loft) to get a rough idea of how the Tour 4i will behave when I get it.  1/2 inch shorter shaft, so i can take that into consideration.  I have a feeling the Tour 4i is going to end up being the club I want to use for 195-210 gap.  But time will tell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pepperturbo]

21 hours ago, ALIF said:

Just out of curiosity, what is your average driver swing speed? How high do you launch that 4 iron? Or maybe a better question would be what is the peak height of your 4 iron?

I haven't been on a LM in years.  Best guess: Irons are 85ish mph, driver is 245ish yards carry, sometimes longer.  LOL All depends on how juiced my joints and muscles are that day.  Haven't a clue regarding apex of irons or driver, sorry.  Generally, driver is a solid mid-trajectory which has always been the case. 

[tilasan]

1 hour ago, Dewdman42 said:

I ordered the 4i last night to match my 923Tour set.  it will be a long time until i get it though because I am heading abroad through the end of the year and Mizuno has something like 6 week turnaround time.  In any case I might still look at a few more hybrids before I go, will have the 4i to look forward to around xmas time just in time for ski season.

 

last night tried out a couple more things, paradym 7w and stealth 24 degree hybrid.  both rolled out 20 yards to 220, missing my desired gap of 195-210 total.  The Stealth hybrid has a large variation of distance depending on how its struck, if I release ever so slightly sooner then irons to reduce or eliminate shaft lean at impact, and choke up about 1/2 inch, I could hit it into the desired distance with less then 20 yards roll.  But very much too easy to hit it longer and miss the gap.  In general I prefer missing short then missing long.

 

Plan to try out the Paradym X 5h (24 degree).  Also want to test a 9w.  Beyond that, at this point I will just play what I have and wait for that 4i to see how it goes.

 

 I also pulled an old TaylorMade 2009 Rescue (24 degree) hybrid I had in storage and plan to try it today maybe since that was pre-burner and pre-rocketbalz dayz and it might not sail them quite so far..I don't remember ever being able to hit it 200 yards before, but i'm better now, so maybe I will. 

 

Planing to test out today my 921Forged 5i (24 degree loft) to get a rough idea of how the Tour 4i will behave when I get it.  1/2 inch shorter shaft, so i can take that into consideration.  I have a feeling the Tour 4i is going to end up being the club I want to use for 195-210 gap.  But time will tell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Save your time, try the 9 wood first.

[bnperrone]

I haven’t read all the comments so maybe this has been said, but have you considered a hybrid head with your 4-iron build? 
 

I have that and love it. For me it’s an 818h2 which can play at same loft and lie angle as the 4-iron it replaced thanks to adjustability. I have a heavier weight in it so that total length, total weight, and swingweight are the same with the same shaft. 
 

 

 

[Louis_Posture]

On 8/13/2023 at 12:27 PM, Dewdman42 said:

Have recently updated my irons and trying to decide what to do for the good ol' 4 iron dilema.  Probably a hybrid.  what we are talking about is something for 200 yards.  My 5i shots sometimes roll out to 200, but usually are in the 190-195 range total...185 carry.  

 

 

 

 

If you carry a 5-iron 185 then you have the swing speed to play a 4-iron.

[Dewdman42]

I already ordered the 4i, mentioned earlier.  won’t have it for two months or more since I am going abroad until Xmas.

 

I also just bought a G430 5h which I have to say is dead nuts perfect.  So probably it will win out over the 4i when it gets here from mizuno due to forgiveness.  I could not hit a bad shot with it.

 

 

 

 

[Dewdman42]

Also when I first got these clubs I was hitting them further than I am now.  I have been trying to focus on consistency and distance control.  For me that is 180 Carry with the 5i or maybe even slightly less.  And I’m quite sure I hit this new 5h more reliably and consistently with less dispersion then my 5i which is a work in progress and I expect the 4i to be even more so the case.

 

it’s even tempting to get the g430 6h based on this experience but I’d rather figure out my 5i which sometimes I am on and sometimes I am not.  I’ll get there, and maybe the 4i too but at some point you have to ask why bother with the 4i when the 5h is actually right on the money.

Edited August 26, 2023 by Dewdman42