is blade shaming real ?

[NRJyzr]

37 minutes ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

I’m not saying blades aren’t the best option for you to shoot your best scores, nor did I say you can’t shoot your best scores unless you play some sort of cb (I don’t believe that to be a blindly true philopshy).

 

Somewhat close ("likely aren’t the best option of them to do that").  Maybe I'm taking the interpretation a little farther than it needs.  🙂

 

The true issue is that some folks treat it as a binary and immovable/unchangeable situation, that must be applied to everyone.  There just aren't that many absolutes in golf.

 

Rickie is a lovely example of switching just past the point of needing to switch.  Or so it appears based on his SG Approach stats.  Then there are stories of Dufner, who shot himself into contention with a mid-event switch to a National Custom set.

 

My take is that they shouldn't be so easily dismissed as an option.  

 

There's personal irony in this discussion.  My season has been less than ideal, to the point that I was soft capped.  Spent some time evaluating options, and as I was making my purchase decision, my game started to come around.  Delayed a couple weeks, decided to make the buy anyway.  Right on cue, I shoot my best rounds of the year, including one where I buffed a shot at my PB.

 

It's like the clubs knew.  LOL

 

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

Honestly, different people get different things from golf. We're not even getting paid to play the game.

 

I wouldn't be happy if I bought the 0311Ps, I just wouldn't. Blades have been coveted by me since I was 18. Life is too short to leave anything on the table, and I don't want to get to 60 and think "I wish I tried that."

I love experimentation, and I think blades require a mindset. You have to be dedicated to them. I think I will be, but who knows; maybe a really will hate them. I just don't see that happening.

When I hit them with trackman the ball height was fine, but the misses were indeed more punishing. Yet, it tells me something each time. I'm methodical, I set high standards for myself, and dare I say I do everything I can to eclipse them. It's the mindset I've chosen in life.

If somebody else can't stand that; well that's too bad.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mikey_HACKilroy

[Binson]

18 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

A friend of mine who I caddie for once in awhile is highly skilled and can shoot under par golf from the back tee boxes. For about 5 years he had been playing Ping S55 and when the Blueprint was introduced I asked him if he was going to buy a set. He replied "I'm not good enough".

His comment got me thinking that blade shaming is  real.  If a legitimate + index tournament player think he is not good enough to play Ping's muscle back iron then who is good enough ? My guess is that he did not want to see any eyerolls or head scratching aimed his way so he ended up buying a set of Srixon ZX7 irons.

Or, he could just legitimately think that and it could be backed up by data from a consistency and ball flight perspective.  

 

If guys like Hovland, Fitzpatrick, Hughes, Bubba, etc. don't play the Blueprint blade, why is it odd that a ~+1 would think similarly?  Every percentage of a stroke matters out there for tournament players.  But for the weekend golfer, I see blades out there more often in the bags of 10-15 hcps because the scores aren't how they make a living.

 

[LUMA]

I play with better players most of the time and I have never experienced anything like that. We just talk about what we play and how we like it, things we may want to upgrade to, things we used to play, etc. Ive also played with a lot of 15 or so handicappers that play MBs because they love the way they feel and look at address. They don't care that a different iron may offer a bit of help on off center strikes, and in all honesty, doesn't really make a huge difference at the end of the day on their scores. A bad strike is bad no matter what head you use and it's going left, right, short or long regardless. They don't play competitive rounds where 2 saved strokes is everything.

 

If someone did something like that, they are probably absolute trash.

[J_Tizzle]

14 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Might work for some….I’ve always believed the old adage that you dance with the one that brung ya.
 Meaning practice with the tools you’ll use on the course.

 

Very fair, I've never done it personally minus a short period where I practiced with that mini training aid (PSP maybe and when I used a short putter I had a stubby) and it does make you focus a lot more vs the G25's I was playing at the time.

[055]

18 hours ago, Tapin0 said:

It is real but it only happens occasionally. I wanted to try T100 at PGA Superstore yesterday and I got shamed that 10 handicap shouldn’t even try it. He was certain I would run into back issues in a year or two. Then he would not let me even try T150 lol. I didn’t bother telling him I played MB for last 15 years with no back issue.

Why would they cause back issues?

[Kai Slater]

This topic reminds me of the whole concept of "golf ego" that I've heard about.  I would love to do a deeper dive into that and may start a thread about it.

[Pnwpingi210]

28 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Somewhat close ("likely aren’t the best option of them to do that").  Maybe I'm taking the interpretation a little farther than it needs.  🙂

 

The true issue is that some folks treat it as a binary and immovable/unchangeable situation, that must be applied to everyone.  There just aren't that many absolutes in golf.

 

Rickie is a lovely example of switching just past the point of needing to switch.  Or so it appears based on his SG Approach stats.  Then there are stories of Dufner, who shot himself into contention with a mid-event switch to a National Custom set.

 

My take is that they shouldn't be so easily dismissed as an option.  

 

There's personal irony in this discussion.  My season has been less than ideal, to the point that I was soft capped.  Spent some time evaluating options, and as I was making my purchase decision, my game started to come around.  Delayed a couple weeks, decided to make the buy anyway.  Right on cue, I shoot my best rounds of the year, including one where I buffed a shot at my PB.

 

It's like the clubs knew.  LOL

 

That’s fair.  It was unclear who/what was referencing.  I used they/them/their to reference I specific person (a scratch caddie who said they weren’t good enough to game blueprints)

 

I still subscribed to the thought of play what clubs fit your goals….as long as you can play under 4.5 hrs or so 🙂

[Brokensticks]

I havent noticed anything like that. 
 

We are all different and for me, a bigger clubface means more places to miss.

 

I will never have any confidence putting a shovel behind the ball and think Im going to be ”precise like a knife”. Its the same with woods, I absolute hate the driver and love a fw3. 
 

Even playing with something like i230 makes me uncomfortable, its just too big. 

[Scottyrocket]

13 hours ago, gibbyfan said:

I think it happens at the retail/point-of-sale than any other place. I recently had a sales person at PGA superstore tell me that he doesn't recommend Titleist CBs or Blades because if the best players in the world don't use them, why should the regular customer. For my delivery blades spin more and the narrow sole helps get in an out of the turf better than most cavity backs, but he didn't ask why I wanted to see the blades/cbs. Just because I asked about them, he shut me down. It may not have been shaming, but passive aggressive, perhaps. 

 

 

As I was reading through this I was thinking the exact same thing. I probably don't count because I play T100 which has some help but seems pretty blade like compared to the other irons out there. The fitter I had said my spin was to low with the more GI clubs and they were low spin rockets. I also seem to be a better ball-striker with the thinner sole. The feel of a well struck ball makes the game more fun for me as well. 

[Boricua Golf]

I've played blades and musclebacks, not one time I had anyone say anything about them, they do state that they are beautiful, but nothing derogatory about them.

[tatertot]

22 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

It seems golf industry employees including club designers, sales reps, fitting experts, retail sales floor personnel etc... are all pushing new tech instead of muscle back blade irons. 

There are lots of different reasons that  a 15 handicap, 5 handicap, scratch player, or Tour pro prefers to play muscle back irons, and that's fine. I believe people should play whatever iron model they like and ignore any commentary from the haters.

My questions are (when looking at a bag filled with muscle back irons)  have you seen the eye rolls or heard the whispers? ...is  blade shaming a real thing ?

It's 2023 ... Everybody's a victim.

[Kai Slater]

Maybe the whole concept of being "good enough" to play with blades, etc. is just a mental thing.  If you think and are led to believe in your heart that blades are hard to hit, then yeah, it may play out in real life on the course.  Back when in my younger years, I played with a set of Wilson blades that I kept for years and years; I wasn't too much into golf equipment and didn't know that they were supposed to be "hard" to play with and that I wasn't supposed to be able to hit them well.  

 

 

[MelloYello]

15 hours ago, Mikey_HACKilroy said:

I think most of the snark happens on the web in forums like this where people say things they ordinarily wouldn't have the kahunas to say in person. 😄 I don't think anybody really means much by it, lol. It never comes across well because we're reading it and sometimes we read too much into it. Shaming? To an extent, ya..... but in person?

I haven't run into anybody that makes rude comments about my game regardless of what I have in the bag. If I do run into a person like that, I'll leave them and go ask the pro-shop for a rain check. I'm not going to play golf with folks that are going to make comments to get under my skin. Screw that.

But thankfully, like I said, I've never really run into folks like that in all of my years playing golf both today and many years past leading up to the break. Here on the forums, though, we're all golf junkies. Some junkies are so obsessed with their swing statistics that they forgot golf is a game of skill and improvement of said skills.

 

Discouraging other golfers should be sacrilege, but when our egos get in the way we'll say the darnedest things.

 

I kind of think it's the other way around. 

 

We bite our tongues for the sake of politeness and not offending those with low self-esteem and ego who can't handle it. 

 

If all people were emotionally strong and could handle honest criticism you'd hear more people say in-person what they do on the internet. Fact is, most people have ego's that won't allow for it. And some are just soft. They get offended and hold grudges. 

 

Most of the time the internet is labeled "toxic" and to some extent it is--we all know this--but only because the politeness filter gets removed and people say what they really think. Sometimes that's really horrible but in other cases it's justified critique that just can't be expressed in person because it would be considered impolite. 

 

 

[GrandStranded]

20 hours ago, jomatty said:

Nope.  People only do stuff like that on the internet. In real life people don’t care at all what you or I am doing.  

100% this. ^^^^^

[NRJyzr]

1 hour ago, Pnwpingi210 said:

as long as you can play under 4.5 hrs or so 🙂

 

Too little of this happening these days.  😐

 

Not topical side comment...  a few weeks ago, had a tee time at my usual course.  They'd had a morning event, 7 am.  First tee time following was 12.20, we were at 12.36.  Event was finishing such that they could send folks out just after 12.00.  My group was me, my wife, and a friend of mine from Scotland, who handles our 20+ person group.

 

Pro knows we like to play quickly, he asks the 12.20 guys if they mind if he sends "three walkers" out ahead of them, they play fast, blah blah.  They're cool with it, and off we go.

 

Played in 3:05.  It was GLORIOUS.  😁😁😁

 

Next group after us, who are also known to play fairly quickly, finished 45 minutes behind us.  LOL

 

[Louis_Posture]

20 minutes ago, Kai Slater said:

Maybe the whole concept of being "good enough" to play with blades, etc. is just a mental thing. 

 

 

 

My observation is that OEM advertising, specifically categorizing equipment by player skill level-handicap index has led players to feel shamed.

Yes, it's a "mental thing" but one that is promoted by OEM's trying to sell equipment, fitters and retailers trying to sell their services etc...

And once a consumer has switched from blades to cavity backs he often becomes part of the juggernaut promoting new tech.

[Jeri6gt]

I play T100S, my golf pro said they were fine, so that is good enough for me.

 

[MelloYello]

23 hours ago, Louis_Posture said:

It seems golf industry employees including club designers, sales reps, fitting experts, retail sales floor personnel etc... are all pushing new tech instead of muscle back blade irons. 

There are lots of different reasons that  a 15 handicap, 5 handicap, scratch player, or Tour pro prefers to play muscle back irons, and that's fine. I believe people should play whatever iron model they like and ignore any commentary from the haters.

My questions are (when looking at a bag filled with muscle back irons)  have you seen the eye rolls or heard the whispers? ...is  blade shaming a real thing ?

 

There are 2 definitions for the word "criticism." 

 

In certain circles--admittedly mostly intellectual ones (i.e. literary, artistic, etc)--the word refers to a discussion of both the merits and faults of something. In other words, both the good and the bad through some detailed breakdown. 

 

Therefore, if it's coming from a place of real understanding and intellectual depth, criticism doesn't have an inherently negative connotation. It's just an analysis or discussion of something. A club-fitter telling a 15-index that blades aren't the best way to approach the game is a good example because the club-fitter is attempting to optimize something that blades are not going do as well as something more stable. The blade is going to demand more of someone who--by definition--has less to give: less speed, less form, less precision, less flexibility, less time, less dedication, etc. 

 

If for instance, someone is playing blades merely because they "want to" one could argue they shouldn't be wasting a fitter's valuable time because not only have the made the decision but they know in advance the fitter isn't going to agree with them. 

 

 

 

The real problem is that people who don't have very high self-esteem often need extra emotional support for their positions and so they often label the aforementioned club-fitter a "hater" or as someone who's "pushing an agenda."

 

This is cringe-worthy as it makes clear that the person in question has some real emotional stuff going on beneath the surface that necessitates a kind of external validation which--unfortunately for that traumatized or otherwise underdeveloped person--the world is just never going to provide. 

 

The world has nothing for these people. Low self-esteem is a vicious demon that can turn nearly every social interaction into an attack on one's personal values and self-worth. A passing comment on the kind of golf clubs one carries manifests in a person feeling "attacked." 

 

The pathetic nature of this is matched only by the tragedy of how much emotional assistance, support and encouragement these people need for even the most basic of things in life. 

 

 

Also keep in mind that you're asking this at a time when virtually all efforts (i.e. engineering, fitting, sales, etc.) are being oriented towards improving how clubs help golfers. A player that insists on the luddite mentality is definitely choosing to do the abnormal thing and should not be granted special privilege. If someone chooses the life of a luddite, that's up to them but the world offers no sympathies.

 

It really comes down to whether you trust the majority of people or not. Most of the time "wisdom of the crowd" tends to be a pretty good indicator of what's most natural for the average person. As such, a lot of this tendency to resist technological improvement is really about the person's own ego and insistence that they are themselves special.

 

So not only does the world not care about the luddite, but the luddite alienates himself. The luddite sets himself up to look incredibly foolish as he's basically thumbing his nose up at the rest of the common people while setting himself up for a bumpy road that accomplishes next to nothing. 

 

So you have to ask yourself, who's really offering the insult here? 

 

Personally, I think the real insult comes from the luddite because his whole philosophy is based not only on emotional issues but on a sense of arrogance and a subconscious holier-than-thou attitude that insists his personal analysis is above considering the input of others. 

 

So if the world offends the luddite...good.

 

.

Edited August 21, 2023 by MelloYello

[vtpachyderm]

Oh - blade/equipment shaming is real in my circle of golf buddies and regular playing partners. Anytime anyone gets any new piece of equipment in the bag, the gloves are off, and the fancier and more pro'ish the equipment looks, the more stick you get.

 

My club pro and instructor are always trying to persuade us to get softer/easier sticks i.e. lighter softer shafts and more GI heads, so I guess that's implicitly blade shaming I guess.

 

But at the end of the day, none of us are bothered as we play equipment we want to/like to play. Those in our group that are serious about scores and getting their cap down are more particular about equipment, but myself - I don't have time to practice enough to get much better than where I'm at (hovering around the 80s with the occasional threatening to break 80), that I just play equipment that piques my curiosity and get rightly shamed for it 😂.

Edited August 21, 2023 by vtpachyderm
clarity

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

44 minutes ago, MelloYello said:

 

I kind of think it's the other way around. 

 

We bite our tongues for the sake of politeness and not offending those with low self-esteem and ego who can't handle it. 

 

If all people were emotionally strong and could handle honest criticism you'd hear more people say in-person what they do on the internet. Fact is, most people have ego's that won't allow for it. And some are just soft. They get offended and hold grudges. 

 

Most of the time the internet is labeled "toxic" and to some extent it is--we all know this--but only because the politeness filter gets removed and people say what they really think. Sometimes that's really horrible but in other cases it's justified critique that just can't be expressed in person because it would be considered impolite. 

 

 

 

I mean, there's a difference with fair critique and rude/impolite jerk. Whenever somebody makes a comment, somebody else is going to have a different opinion.

 

I believe it was my Grandfather's generation that felt civility was important. I don't think his children feel the same way.

 

But frankly, it is true that I think people need to grow some thicker skin. I get mad sometimes at people's comments, but I get over it.

 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Mikey_HACKilroy

[OnTheBag]

Pretty good comments in this thread, although it seems to have gone off the rails recently.  

 

To the OP's question, I've never seen casual golfers make any comment about what someone else is playing.  The opposite of that is high stakes gamers always looking for a bet.  While they may not comment on someone's setup, they most certainly notice on the first tee (I always did).  If I saw a player with older blades with tiny wear spots, I knew to be careful with my wagers, etc...

 

Other than that small group of "players", no one else ever notices what's in my bag.

[Mikey_HACKilroy]

When does it not go off the rails around here? 😆

[Orchardist]

Whoa...Blade shaming?  Wow, wouldn't that lead to some obvious driver shaming?  How about mulligan shaming?  Putter shaming after someone four jacks with their precious snotty?  Lack of applying rules shaming?

 

For sure a younger generation raised on severe marketing and cavity's, two pc, three pc, hollow fill whatever.... is more than ever likely to discredit a muscle back style iron. 

 

I've been doing business with the same pro shop owner for 35years.  He would like to see more people interested in a blade style iron.  The long term ownership of a blade doesn't sell enough clubs for the manufacturers marketing machine.  He's more than happy to spend the time with anyone who wants a blade style provided their impact is not covering consistently extreme hosel to toe variations. 

 

Most blades have Way too much shaft for the average person.  Dial down the shaft to something realistic for most golfers and it's just another iron head.  It fits your eye or it doesn't.

[Kai Slater]

2 minutes ago, OnTheBag said:

Pretty good comments in this thread, although it seems to have gone off the rails recently.  

 

To the OP's question, I've never seen casual golfers make any comment about what someone else is playing.  The opposite of that is high stakes gamers always looking for a bet.  While they may not comment on someone's setup, they most certainly notice on the first tee (I always did).  If I saw a player with older blades with tiny wear spots, I knew to be careful with my wagers, etc...

 

Other than that small group of "players", no one else ever notices what's in my bag.

I've noticed that there seems to be a disproportionate number of players that are always looking to bet.  A while back, I went through a period where it seemed that everyone I would get paired up with (I played as a single quite often) would try to talk me into betting something.  I thought, doesn't anyone just play for the fun of it anymore?  I would just turn them down and say that I'm not good enough of a player to engage in betting matches.

[MountainKing]

They really only shame themselves to be honest. Iutside of competitive events where I'm playing with guys who can hit them, the weekend warrior blade users tend to fit the stereotype pretty well.  They love to talk about them, they love to let the entire group know they're playing them, they like to tell us how they are better ball strikers because of them, all while they proceed to hit 4 greens (if I'm being generous) the entire round  and then while going up 18 tell the group how they didn't have it today and can't believe they shot a 90, despite the fact that every round probably plays out that way.   They're kind of like the vegan's of golf.

[Orchardist]

8 minutes ago, MountainKing said:

They really only shame themselves to be honest. Iutside of competitive events where I'm playing with guys who can hit them, the weekend warrior blade users tend to fit the stereotype pretty well.  They love to talk about them, they love to let the entire group know they're playing them, they like to tell us how they are better ball strikers because of them, all while they proceed to hit 4 greens (if I'm being generous) the entire round  and then while going up 18 tell the group how they didn't have it today and can't believe they shot a 90, despite the fact that every round probably plays out that way.   They're kind of like the vegan's of golf.

 

Most people that I've been paired with that shoot 90 actually shoot more like 100 but it's never due to the iron head style in their bag.

[Kai Slater]

It would be interesting to do an experiment where I go out to a random spots on the course to hit iron approaches into the greens.  On one shot, I play my Callaway RazrX game improvers and on another shot from the same spots, hit with a blade and see what the difference really is in accuracy.

 

 

[MountainKing]

5 minutes ago, Orchardist said:

 

Most people that I've been paired with that shoot 90 actually shoot more like 100 but it's never due to the iron head style in their bag.

 

Yeah I was trying to be as nice as possible with what I just said lol

[Louis_Posture]

22 minutes ago, Orchardist said:

 

 

For sure a younger generation raised on severe marketing and cavity's, two pc, three pc, hollow fill whatever.... is more than ever likely to discredit a muscle back style iron. 

 

 

 

I've noticed head shaking and eye rolling from the older player (who used to play blades but now plays cavity backs) .