AMG Driver Video

[Soloman1]

Once again, the difference between elite players and others is in details common but different to each.

 

I hope that wasn’t jargoneering?

[tthomasgolfer605]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

 

I’m not arguing for your misunderstanding of  “hold the hands up” 

 

What I am doing is agreeing with Jack Nicklaus that you can’t release the club too soon *as long as you get to your left side first* However, “getting to your left side” is oversimplified and I would say you can’t release the club too soon as long as you have a good “transition” that happens in the backswing, first. The overwhelming majority of ams don’t have this. Firing impulses don’t fix that problem, they make it worse.

Jack's upper body already transitioning before he plants the left heel. I saw him play in his mid 50's and it was quite impressive. 

[Simpsonia]

29 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Just to clear it up for me, what precisely does "firing the hands" mean?

 

That's the thing, at least for me. Any early arm related impulses get my shoulders firing, which is absolutely terrible for the swing. For me, I apparently just can't chew gum and walk at the same time, when it comes to arm-related thoughts. 

 

So what does firing the hands mean? I could mean a dozen different things to a dozen different people. Does it mean fire the shoulders? It does to me, subconsciously. Does it mean fire arm extension via triceps? Maybe it does to someone else. 

[virtuoso]

37 minutes ago, tthomasgolfer605 said:

Jack's upper body already transitioning before he plants the left heel. I saw him play in his mid 50's and it was quite impressive. 

A lot of people think of Hogan and Nicklaus as polar opposites but they are actually very similar where it counts.

[Nard_S]

14 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Just to clear it up for me, what precisely does "firing the hands" mean?

To me? Not talking about P6 unraveling. Before that. 

Accelerating hands to reach peak speed at a point well before impact. Getting hands lower, down below the waist and done sooner than one normally assumes. Adjust ramp up of body (slower, smoother & sooner), just like you guys like, but ramp up hand speed to attain an earlier peak. The reference to work from is that. Butch & Tiger talked about this 20+ years ago too and it was to get his syncing much better. It worked for him. He was always out running his arms, it fixed it. 

 

I've always been outrunning arms or arms overtaking everything, living in that duality. That is not what this is.

[virtuoso]

10 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

To me? Not talking about P6 unraveling. Before that. 

Accelerating hands to reach peak speed at a point well before impact. Getting hands lower, down below the waist and done sooner than one normally assumes. Adjust ramp up of body (slower, smoother & sooner), just like you guys like, but ramp up hand speed to attain an earlier peak. The reference to work from is that. Butch & Tiger talked about this 20+ years ago too and it was to get his syncing much better. It worked for him. He was always out running his arms, it fixed it. 

 

I've always been outrunning arms or arms overtaking everything, living in that duality. That is not what this is.

I'm sure what your doing is right for you but can you be more precise? When you accelerate your hands, is it like pulling an arrow from the quiver on your back, so longitudinally? Or, is it a radial push out against the circle. Or is it just pulling the handle straight down to P6? And are you counter rotating the forearms to flatten the shaft to offset the pull down? What's happening with the wrist c0ck?

[Albatross Dreamer]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Just to clear it up for me, what precisely does "firing the hands" mean?

 

[MPStrat]

15 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

To me? Not talking about P6 unraveling. Before that. 

Accelerating hands to reach peak speed at a point well before impact. Getting hands lower, down below the waist and done sooner than one normally assumes. Adjust ramp up of body (slower, smoother & sooner), just like you guys like, but ramp up hand speed to attain an earlier peak. The reference to work from is that. Butch & Tiger talked about this 20+ years ago too and it was to get his syncing much better. It worked for him. He was always out running his arms, it fixed it. 

 

I've always been outrunning arms or arms overtaking everything, living in that duality. That is not what this is.

If you actually watch that Tiger and Butch video, they aren’t talking about accelerating hands. They are talking about their version of tumbling or lining up the club for impact similar to that Manzella video where you called him an idiot.

 

They talk about the arms “falling” not trying to ramp up speed or fire the hands. 
 

Either way, this is a completely different conversation. Just pointing out that The Tiger-Butch concept isn’t the feel your describing that you think is correct for everyone.

[Nard_S]

2 minutes ago, MPStrat said:

They talk about the arms “falling” not trying to ramp up speed or fire the hands. 

Tiger specifically says he's trying to get his hands to his knees as fast as possible.

[virtuoso]

11 minutes ago, Albatross Dreamer said:

 

So, keep the arms in front of the chest and un-c0ck the wrists early?

[Nard_S]

6 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I'm sure what your doing is right for you but can you be more precise? When you accelerate your hands, is it like pulling an arrow from the quiver on your back, so longitudinally? Or, is it a radial push out against the circle. Or is it just pulling the handle straight down to P6? And are you counter rotating the forearms to flatten the shaft to offset the pull down? What's happening with the wrist c0ck?

Truth, I've tried to work with all those descriptions but what I find is, it's not about getting hands back to the ball, which is THE BIG mistake in trying it. it's about getting the hands down with depth & width. I'm doing some handle counter rotating but I'm also more emphatic about lead arm power from P4.5 to P5,5

 

The sage here says move towards 8'oclock, if target is high noon. The weird aspect is it feel like you're firing & throwing down way behind you. For me it alters P6, in a good way but it requires I add extra salsa there or I'm pushing 5 degrees. It requires a body disposition that is decidedly more downhill in disposition. This is not a 6 week or 6 month thing. Just saying. Needs good geometry to work.

[MPStrat]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

Tiger specifically says he's trying to get his hands to his knees as fast as possible.

 

 

 

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Nard_S said:

Truth, I've tried to work with all those descriptions but what I find is, it's not about getting hands back to the ball, which is THE BIG mistake in trying it. it's about getting the hands down with depth & width. I'm doing some handle counter rotating but I'm also more emphatic about lead arm power from P4.5 to P5,5

 

The sage here says move towards 8'oclock, if target is high noon. The weird aspect is it feel like you're firing & throwing down way behind you. For me it alters P6, in a good way but it requires I add extra salsa there or I'm pushing 5 degrees. It requires a body disposition that is decidedly more downhill in disposition. This is not a 6 week or 6 month thing. Just saying. Needs good geometry to work.

Ok, so is it fair to say that if you do everything you say above perfectly, except that you forget to add salsa at P6, it's going OB right?

[MK7Golf21]

Tiger in that famous Butch harmon video was trying to get the clubhead more out in front instead of behind him on the downswing so it was the opposite of cast to 8 move with the clubhead. It's more the Malaska move than anything where the clubhead is thrown outward in front towards the ball line. There were better ways to fix it and Butch has said as much. 

[MonteScheinblum]

8 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

Tiger in that famous Butch harmon video was trying to get the clubhead more out in front instead of behind him on the downswing so it was the opposite of cast to 8 move with the clubhead. It's more the Malaska move than anything where the clubhead is thrown outward in front towards the ball line. There were better ways to fix it and Butch has said as much. 

Well……

 

The move Malaska teaches and what you said Tiger was describing is what happens from P6-P8.  Tiger needed to feel it first move down because he already got the club to move away from the ball first move down.  Malaska was taught to drop the right shoulder to shallow, so he needed to feel that move first move down.  

 

My original no turn cast video left out the move to 8 because that’s what I needed to feel too.  As I learned more and taught more, I found more people need to feel that club movement away from the target FIRST.  

[MPStrat]

29 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Ok, so is it fair to say that if you do everything you say above perfectly, except that you forget to add salsa at P6, it's going OB right?

We were just handed an all access lanyard into the mind of a golfwrx ‘23  range session 

 

Truth be told, some of my own, although different, are every bit as insane. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by MPStrat

[MK7Golf21]

11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Well……

 

The move Malaska teaches and what you said Tiger was describing is what happens from P6-P8.  Tiger needed to feel it first move down because he already got the club to move away from the ball first move down.  Malaska was taught to drop the right shoulder to shallow, so he needed to feel that move first move down.  

 

My original no turn cast video left out the move to 8 because that’s what I needed to feel too.  As I learned more and taught more, I found more people need to feel that club movement away from the target FIRST.  

 

I agree. As you know Tiger was getting across the line and and clubhead was dropping too far inside on downswing. Worst miss for a better golfer.

 

I've seen Butch get questioned on Instgram in the comment section on that video about slowing Tigers hips down. TBH, I think it was Lucas Wald and Butch admitted there were probably better ways to fix than slow his hips down which Lucas was saying slowed down Tigers clubhead speed.

 

Doesn't really matter though, Tiger played the best golf ever with that move. I've tried it and it is not easy to do, his current swing is way easier to perform.

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

I agree. As you know Tiger was getting across the line and and clubhead was dropping too far inside on downswing. Worst miss for a better golfer.

 

I've seen Butch get questioned on Instgram in the comment section on that video about slowing Tigers hips down. TBH, I think it was Lucas Wald and Butch admitted there were probably better ways to fix than slow his hips down which Lucas was saying slowed down Tigers clubhead speed.

 

Doesn't really matter though, Tiger played the best golf ever with that move. I've tried it and it is not easy to do, his current swing is way easier to perform.

 

 

Yep

[MPStrat]

14 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Well……

 

The move Malaska teaches and what you said Tiger was describing is what happens from P6-P8.  Tiger needed to feel it first move down because he already got the club to move away from the ball first move down.  Malaska was taught to drop the right shoulder to shallow, so he needed to feel that move first move down.  

 

My original no turn cast video left out the move to 8 because that’s what I needed to feel too.  As I learned more and taught more, I found more people need to feel that club movement away from the target FIRST.  

 

The original Malaska move is letting the arms fall while tumbling the club with early lead forearm supination very similar to this Tiger-Butch video and recent Manzella video with Be Better Golf. For those who might not know, it’s different from the original no turn cast which was more about throwing the trail wrist into flexion as soon as possible. The original Malaska move is more about forearm rotation.

[virtuoso]

15 minutes ago, MK7Golf21 said:

 

I agree. As you know Tiger was getting across the line and and clubhead was dropping too far inside on downswing. Worst miss for a better golfer.

 

I've seen Butch get questioned on Instgram in the comment section on that video about slowing Tigers hips down. TBH, I think it was Lucas Wald and Butch admitted there were probably better ways to fix than slow his hips down which Lucas was saying slowed down Tigers clubhead speed.

 

Doesn't really matter though, Tiger played the best golf ever with that move. I've tried it and it is not easy to do, his current swing is way easier to perform.

 

 

This is after slowing down the hips...so I think slowing them down was a good idea.

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

This is after slowing down the hips...so I think slowing them down was a good idea.

That hurts just looking at it.  I prefer the term delaying versus slowing down.  Tiger, you could probably tell him anything and he could do it, but when you tell an average golfer slow the hips down, they lose speed.  When you tell them delay, it generally has a better affect.

[MK7Golf21]

4 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

This is after slowing down the hips...so I think slowing them down was a good idea.

 

We don't really know his feel on the course, I bet he was firing those hips. Maybe on the range he toned down the hips as a drill or something. I think he was just going after it aggressively with everything knowing Tiger.

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, virtuoso said:

Ok, so is it fair to say that if you do everything you say above perfectly, except that you forget to add salsa at P6, it's going OB right?

I've been doing that because it changes my math on P6, so I'm pushing shots, not "getting stuck" mind, not EE and standing up,  just not vigorous enough on right forearm because I'm used to flippier move. Last 4 rounds it cost me a lot and there was a time I would get chicken and abandon and go comfortable. I understand it and will tweak that out. My forearm is more loaded, my hand more flexed back and down, it's different.

[getitdaily]

On 8/28/2023 at 3:26 PM, MonteScheinblum said:

Yes and it’s all about what makes sense to people.  If you believe in the work of Dr. David Wright, which I do, you can’t tell a lower core person upper body feels and vice versa.

 

In this vein, to discount the “feel” of arms working down independently is very short sighted when you have the likes of Tiger Woods, Justin Rose, Bryson Dechambeau and Padraig Harrington saying so. 
 

Most tour players are mid core and you can tell them about any feel and they will make it work.  
 

Most human beings are upper, most golfers have been inundated with all lower body feels.  You could make a case that’s why most golfers have their arms trailing in the sequence.  
 

If you have spent thousands of hours on the lesson tee, your own feel biases are persuaded to change. Eliminating one avenue of thought, limits how many people you can assist.

 

Keyboardery….I’m stealing that.

You need to go ahead and move to the better tax state of Florida so I can work in-person with you already!

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

We were just handed an all access lanyard into the mind of a golfwrx ‘23  range session 

Yeah, I've been working this for years.Quote us some beta torque and let's all feel smart.

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

 

RPReplay_Final1693335289.mov 29.63 MB · 5 downloads  

 

 

In the morning GC appearance back in the day he states it. 

[virtuoso]

22 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Yeah, I've been working this for years.Quote us some beta torque and let's all feel smart.

I thought salsa was beta torque.

[MPStrat]

22 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Yeah, I've been working this for years.Quote us some beta torque and let's all feel smart.

 

I would but I think you have enough swing thoughts

 

[Nard_S]

3 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I thought salsa was beta torque.

Not surprised.

[johnrobison]

21 hours ago, MPStrat said:

If someone wants to reach a higher level of ball striking, they need to understand it from an academic perspective but also have the ability to understand it and execute within the context of their own swing. 

I disagree. There are plenty of very good players who don't and don't care to understand it academically. 

 

Without proof, here's my hypothesis: The number of players with an academic understanding yet without the ability to improve others or even execute it well, themselves, far outweighs the number or good players with very little academic understanding of it all, yet are much better ball strikers than most all of us in this discussion.