Elite golf schools video

[ThinkingPlus]

6 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

I've been told that once you’ve nailed the basics of arm structure and club face awareness, the rest isn’t really that hard.

Iron Byron ain't got no hips. Enough said. 😉

[KD1]

22 hours ago, Duffer Mark said:

How do the Elite videos compare to what Dan C. is teaching below in a lesson explaining that the lead knee has to get in front of the hip

 

FWIW The action Dan C is teaching (knees separating by a lot) doesn't seem to line up with what's actually happening. (Probably doesn't happen exactly like EGS is teaching either... feel isn't real I guess)

 

 

Edited January 3 by KD1

[Zitlow]

I think Gankas is the one who started that sit down thing and a lot of instructors copied it. 

 

[virtuoso]

2 minutes ago, Zitlow said:

I think Gankas is the one who started that sit down thing and a lot of instructors copied it. 

 

Are you sure it wasn't started by someone you post pics and vids of all the time?

[KD1]

2 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Are you sure it wasn't started by someone you post pics and vids of all the time?

 

You mean this guy ?

[virtuoso]

Just now, KD1 said:

 

You mean this guy ?

Yeah, GG getting Gucci with it is only one among a long list of squatters. The largest influence on modern instruction squatting was early-ish MORAD.

[Jaxtiger]

4 hours ago, KD1 said:

 

FWIW The action Dan C is teaching (knees separating by a lot) doesn't seem to line up with what's actually happening. (Probably doesn't happen exactly like EGS is teaching either... feel isn't real I guess)

 

 

It's important to recognize the difference between an individualized lesson giving a player an extreme feel vs an instructor's preferences/theories about the golf swing. 

 

Dan isn't saying the knees need to separate that drastically for everyone, only that it's an exaggeration for the Andrew Jensen guy who wasn't getting his lead hip out of the way enough, early enough. 

[virtuoso]

19 minutes ago, Jaxtiger said:

It's important to recognize the difference between an individualized lesson giving a player an extreme feel vs an instructor's preferences/theories about the golf swing. 

 

Dan isn't saying the knees need to separate that drastically for everyone, only that it's an exaggeration for the Andrew Jensen guy who wasn't getting his lead hip out of the way enough, early enough. 

Yeah, I think iteach knows what he's doing. If you heard some of the things I told my students to feel, and took them out of context, I'd sound like I lost my mind.

[Zitlow]

Yep, Gankas copied it from Snead and made and is making big bank off of it. Then a lot of other teachers jumped on the Gankas bandwagon.

 

They stated posting videos of it and teaching it to their victims, oops students. 

 

 

Edited January 4 by Zitlow

[iacas]

42 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Yeah, I think iteach knows what he's doing. If you heard some of the things I told my students to feel, and took them out of context, I'd sound like I lost my mind.

 

My general rule for years has been that you can post the pictures from my lessons if you want (most don't care/aren't on social media/forums), but not the words: the words are custom to YOU because they're the feels, the language we used, etc. Plus some of them might offend people (nothing bad, just an occasional "pinch your right nut between your thigh and pelvis" or stuff like that).

[Duffer Mark]

I guess it is difficult to find general principles in a golf lesson given to someone else. Maybe what seems to be a general principle in the lead knee and hip movement discussion isn't so easy to discern. Sometimes videos seem too technical and sometimes too simple. 

 

Here is Rory and Jensen side-by-side. The positions look very similar. But I wasn't there. 🙂

 

[MK7Golf21]

1 hour ago, Duffer Mark said:

I guess it is difficult to find general principles in a golf lesson given to someone else. Maybe what seems to be a general principle in the lead knee and hip movement discussion isn't so easy to discern. Sometimes videos seem too technical and sometimes too simple. 

 

Here is Rory and Jensen side-by-side. The positions look very similar. But I wasn't there. 🙂

 

 

There were a couple things Dan taught to most his students, at least back then. One was he didn't like the lead knee to come in on the backswing, he talks about it in that video lesson above as well. He would use the rubber band around the knees and you resist the lead knee coming in on the backswing so when you take off the band it is very easy. Same for the lead knee out action, using a band puts resistance so when you take it off it is easier. 

 

I've talked with him in the past why he didn't like the lead knee coming in and he said it makes it hard to get open on the downswing because the lead knee has to get out/external to open up easier. Basically the exact same explanation in the video lesson. From what I saw he did teach those concepts to most his students so it wasn't really tailored per se to Andrew, although he might have needed it. 

 

 

Edited January 4 by MK7Golf21

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Duffer Mark said:

I guess it is difficult to find general principles in a golf lesson given to someone else. Maybe what seems to be a general principle in the lead knee and hip movement discussion isn't so easy to discern. Sometimes videos seem too technical and sometimes too simple. 

 

Here is Rory and Jensen side-by-side. The positions look very similar. But I wasn't there. 🙂

 

You nailed it in the first sentence, and then went on to prove your point with an example. Well done, sir.

[MonteScheinblum]

Golf instruction has had a big problem for over a century.

 

It was less about here’s what to do and more about let’s do the opposite of what hacks do.

 

Hacks reverse pivot, come over the top, cast and flip.  Add in the appearance the hands come out as a result of over active arms (It’s usually over active rib cage).

 

90% of lessons involved one to all of the following.  Shift weight and load the right side, drop it in the slot and swing to right field, hold lag and hold off the release…..while firing the body and have the arms and hands trail.  None of that garbage helps.  They are not exaggerating the correct move, they are just another bad move.  It’s like constipation and diarrhea.  

 

Those fixes are not good moves, they are on the opposite side of the bell curve of badness.  

 

So you have to be clear with students that exaggeration moves to change the pattern need to be monitored not over done.

 

The GG and Malaska moves are just exaggerations of the correct move.  It gets people out of collapsing the knees and sliding and dropping the right shoulder respectively.
 

 

 

 

 

[iacas]

37 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

It was less about here’s what to do and more about let’s do the opposite of what hacks do.

 

Hacks reverse pivot, come over the top, cast and flip.  Add in the appearance the hands come out as a result of over active arms (It’s usually over active rib cage).

 

When I was getting into golf at 15 or so… I of course read everything I could get my hands on. I decided that it seemed like hackers reverse pivoted as you said and hit slices. So, my first self-taught golf swing had a BIG shift back and through, and I hooked the hell out of it.

 

I did okay with it, but man… it was mostly because I averaged about 27 holes a day for three summers in a row.

[MonteScheinblum]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

When I was getting into golf at 15 or so… I of course read everything I could get my hands on. I decided that it seemed like hackers reverse pivoted as you said and hit slices. So, my first self-taught golf swing had a BIG shift back and through, and I hooked the hell out of it.

 

I did okay with it, but man… it was mostly because I averaged about 27 holes a day for three summers in a row.

Same.  When I was playing the kornferry tour in the 90’s I was a lag holding fool.  I’d get vertical with an extended lead worst and was told drop it in the slot by dumping the right shoulder.

 

At 130+ mph during a tournament, that led to a few blocks….lol

[JamesFoote]

2 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Same.  When I was playing the kornferry tour in the 90’s I was a lag holding fool.  I’d get vertical with an extended lead worst and was told drop it in the slot by dumping the right shoulder.

 

At 130+ mph during a tournament, that led to a few blocks….lol

So having read the comments on the thread and digested things a bit more, is this a move/pattern you’d be happy seeing your students implement?

 

@Valtiel’s 190mph thread (and subsequent posts) has really got my brain ticking over, and this video seems a good fit for my issues being stuck on the back foot for too long.

[Valtiel]

14 hours ago, MK7Golf21 said:

I've talked with him in the past why he didn't like the lead knee coming in and he said it makes it hard to get open on the downswing because the lead knee has to get out/external to open up easier. 

 

41 minutes ago, JamesFoote said:

So having read the comments on the thread and digested things a bit more, is this a move/pattern you’d be happy seeing your students implement?

 

@Valtiel’s 190mph thread (and subsequent posts) has really got my brain ticking over, and this video seems a good fit for my issues being stuck on the back foot for too long.

The points above about shift, the contents of the thread you mentioned James, and what @MK7Golf21 mentioned above are all connected. The left knee coming in a little too much combined with shifting too much and/or too late is a double whammy since both elements slow the ability to get into and subsequently open the front side. I notice this when i'm tired or unfocused; my left knee takes a big loop around before working back vs. the far straighter line you see with pros. The more I keep my knee working more straight out in the backswing the easier it is to get straight back when pressured with weight in transition. 

[Valtiel]

On 12/13/2023 at 4:46 AM, jomatty said:

Has anyone seen this video and if so did they have any thoughts?  I’m particularly interested in who is implementing the pelvis/hips in the way they suggest, and if I am even understanding them correctly.  It seems like they want you to start the swing with the pelvis or trail hip moving forward which is different than how I’ve always envisioned what the hips do in the golf swing.  It seems like they want this to happen as one fluid move to start the swing, but perhaps I’m misunderstanding and it is something that is set before the swing.  I’m just not really sure but thought it was an interesting video and was curious who else had watched it and what their thoughts were.

Sorry I just have to add this...... close your eyes and listen from 12:39 - 12:50 and tell me that isn't straight up Jeff Goldblum.

 

[MPStrat]

10 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The GG and Malaska moves are just exaggerations of the correct move.  It gets people out of collapsing the knees and sliding and dropping the right shoulder respectively.

 

Honest question here not trying to be a smart a**. Wouldn’t the Malaska move be a better example of exaggerating the incorrect move? I actually don’t believe in this “exaggerating the correct vs incorrect move” theory because feels sometimes need to be very weird. Also, an argument could be made that almost any feel is an exaggeration of the correct move.

 

The Malaska move suggests to tip the COM out toward the ball from the top of the swing. If this was an exaggeration of the correct move wouldn’t he be teaching a move where the COM is working away from the ball?

[DShepley]

On 1/2/2024 at 3:57 PM, Duffer Mark said:

How do the Elite videos compare to what Dan C. is teaching below in a lesson explaining that the lead knee has to get in front of the hip on the downswing? 

 

Interesting....I was listening to a Golfer's Journal podcast where Tom Coyne had Padraig Harrington on. At the end of the podcast, Tom asked Paddy for a tip to help his early extension and Paddy told him to turn his left quad clockwise to open his hips.  This is opposite of what Dan is showing here.  Myself, I have an issue where I actually take a step almost towards the target to open my hips as I start to unwind, (my toes open in my recenter move)...that however is not what the elite do.  When I rehearse the left quad turning clockwise, (it's exact opposite of what I do), it creates a torque on the ground that pushes my left hip behind, it's the only place it can go, I also feel some tension in my legs and it feels like a stronger move.  Here is Paddy explaining it starting at about the 4:00 minute mark, (he want's you to turn into your left hip and create a pinch...if you roll your left knee outward, you release all of the tension and don't create the pinch).  Now...I think maybe it was in Lucas Wald's teachings that I first noticed someone talk about the lead heel moving towards the target as the recenter happens and hips begin to open.  It makes Paddy's tip make a whole lot more sense to me.  If your move to open the hips is to rotate your knee towards the target, your lead heel will never move towards the target but your toes sure will.  Watch this slow motion video of Rory and notice what his heel does as his hips start to open.  He isn't rotating his knee open, he is turning his upper quad clockwise, (turning into his hip), which is pushing his lead hip back. 

 

Try it with a rehearsal swing.  If you turn your left quad counter clockwise, you can stand up and early extend, if you turn your left quad clockwise it pushes your lead hip back.

 

 

 

[KD1]

40 minutes ago, DShepley said:

Paddy told him to turn his left quad clockwise to open his hips

 

Stand on one foot and apply a force to twist that foot CW, your body will spin CCW. Relevant or irrelevant to the golf swing?? over my head

Edited January 5 by KD1

[DShepley]

4 minutes ago, KD1 said:

 

Stand on one foot and apply a force to twist that foot CW, your body will spin CCW. Relevant or irrelevant to the golf swing?? over my head

I think it's very relevant. I can tell you this.  If you stand on both feet and turn your left knee towards the target, your left hip doesn't move behind you much, whereas if you stand on both feet and twist your left quad clockwise, it does.  I'm guilty of applying the wrong force on my lead side, I play to a 3.1 index and make compensations.  How many other people apply the wrong force and wonder why their hips don't move in the correct manner?